Disney Theme Parks: Today vs. Yesterday

[Peter Pirate]

In debating the 'goods and 'bads' and 'ins' and 'outs' of the Disney theme park experience, I always have in my mind the social, economical and expectational differences between consumers of 1955 forward versus 2003 backward.

The Disneyland that Walt built was for a speciic dynamic that in no way resembles the WDW dynamic of today. DL was built as a local park meant to attract people from the Southern California and specifically the LA populace. This standard at DL still stands to a great extent today. WDW got its roots in the same model, as the MK was basically a clone of the DL park built in a burgeoning area of the country expected to attract many older retirees and vacatining families - While this expected demographic resembled the DL model in many ways, we now know that Disney was completelty wrong in its assesment of who would come to Disney World and why.

What Walt needed to do to impress folks in 1955, or at least what he wanted to do, was provide a safe, clean, entertaining environment for the whole family to enjoy...Which is the next issue I have with today vs. yesterday. Walt's quote of a 'family park' is often equated with meaning rides that will satisfy and entertain adults as well as the kids, when in actuality he probably was more likely to have meant that the attractions were built for the entertainment and satisfaction of the kids while the surroundings were built for the adults. Walt often stated that his way of spending time with his girls was to sit on a bench while watching them enjoy themselves...A picture quite different than many have today of what Walt would do, or what should be built in a Disney park.

My point is that what was necessary to draw and please the families of 1955-1965 was vastly different in perspective and application than it is today. Therefore it is my opinion that the constant drum beating of Walts' quality that we hear around here is to a large degree fabrication. Walt DID believe in giving the guest all that he could but the expectation and appreciation of the guest was well below that of today. Would or could that philosophy of Walt's transcend today's world? Would there be any appreciation at all from the few that could actually afford it were Disney to truly have offered the best that it could in all circumstances?

 

[hopemax]

when in actuality he probably was more likely to have meant that the attractions were built for the entertainment and satisfaction of the kids while the surroundings were built for the adults.

How did you come up with this "more likely" scenario? It's a serious question. Because, I don't want you thinking that people only believe that rides should be for the enjoyment of both, based on some "out-of-context" quote . In my case, I've had the opportunity to listen to and interact with several former WED employees, and I've never got the impression that the above is true.

 

[Peter Pirate]

No specific quote was used, but in more than one of the books about Walt I've read, this scenerio was often described...

If you feel the statement is untrue, half true or a bald face lie, your opinion still can fit fine into the context of my post. I am not saying I am correct. This is my opinion based on the reading of more books about Disney than I would ever admit to anybody not on these boards...

 

[WebmasterCricket]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
Walt often stated that his way of spending time with his girls was to sit on a bench while watching them enjoy themselves

Isn't that where the DL idea came from? He was sick of sitting on the bench and having all the rides be just for the kids.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Jiminy, perhaps you're correct and I've totally misread the quotes...But still my version makes sense in the context of what Walt was famous for doing at DL...Which was observation...

 

[Testtrack321]

So the kids rode the rides and the parents went to the gift shop? Mabey Walt is more like the big E than we think....

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

Walt's Disney exceeded the customers' expectations on a regular basis and the Company was financially successful in the long haul. That only makes sense.

If the customers' expectation change, then your product must change in relation to those expectations. That only makes sense.

I agree that customer expectations are greater in 2003 than in 1971, and greater in 1971 than in 1955. That only makes sense.

Disney's recent products have not exceeded customers expectations on a regular basis and have been financially disappointing in the long haul. That only makes sense.

As Disney's products overall exceeded their customers expectations by less and less, and then not at all, the customers were more likely to consider other competing options. That only makes sense.

If Disney continues to low-ball their products, those products will continue to exceed the expectations of fewer and fewer customers, causing further disappointing results and further cutbacks to the product. That only makes sense.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

"The idea for [Disneyland] came about when my two daughters were very young and Saturday was always Daddy's day with the two daughters. So we'd start out and try to go someplace, you know, different things, and I'd take them to the merry-go-round and took them different places and as I'd sit while they rode the merry-go-round and did all these things--sit on a bench, you know, eating peanuts--I felt that there should be something built where the parents and the children could have fun together. So that's how Disneyland started."

-from The Quotable Walt Disney, published in 2001 and compiled by Dave Smith, director of the Walt Disney Archives.

I still can't discern any way of interpreting the facts at hand that suggests Walt built Disneyland so daddies would have a place to sit and watch and eat peanuts... that type of product was already in plentiful supply, and Disney felt a different product would do well.

 

[Peter Pirate]

Maybe Walt is more like the big E than we think.

TT, although I know your statement was tongue in cheek, I have to say that I definately think that many people like additions to WDW garnered under Eisner's corporate regime more than they allow...

Disney's recent products have not exceeded customers expectations...

Excluding the movies, I guess...Oh, and 'M:S' seems to be jolly good. The Angels won the Series, the Ducks made the finals...Both of those probably exceeded expectations...So you can see that as a generalized statement it really doesn't work well here. In rebuttal of my own post, I will say that for this thread I was talking specifically about theme parks, so all but my 'M:S' analogy was, in fact, cheating, but the comment I'm refuting was the broad based "products" comment.

If Disney continues to low-ball their products, these products will coninue to exceed the expetations of fewer and fewer of their customers...

Well, aside from the last 2 years I just don't understand. I'll bet Disney has way more customers now than in 1955 (duh). Further, I'll bet way more are still having their expectations exceeded. Heck, sheer growth figures alone pretty much assure that. I will grant you that more and more Disney regulars are losing their faith in the past few years than ever before. But this brings me back to my main question, will pure quality of product ensure success today (1955 vs 2003) while still being able to maintain any profit margins at all? Sure Disney can introduce a new "E" ticket each year. They can enter the fickle coaster wars, they can offer 5-star Ritz-Carlton service at their hotels but at what price? The masses will not be able to stay at the deluxe with the deluxe price and is there really a potential market (demographic) out there of people who can afford 350-500 per night rooms at Disney? Can Disney afford to raise their ticket prices maybe 25-30% above the competetion because of the yearly "E" ticket and continual uprades? Will the public see the result or will the price hikes required just be prohibitive? Sure Disnyphiles would notice but is this what is necessary for mass approval?

It was relatively easy for Walt to accomplish his dreams on this scale back in 1955...He KNEW it would work (the hard part for him as convincing Roy). He had a track record with pleasing the public. He was a freakin' genius who was tuned into his reason for being. He was also the one who got to call all the shots.

Lastly, I want to say that even in today's world the only products that succeed with a 'Walt like quality' are products micomanaged by the owner/creator/genius himself. No Eisner, or other CEO, is ever going to have that combination of control and imagination...

 

[FriendsOfEeyore]

I think that the quote speaks for itself. That DL was created as a "Family Park" where things could be done together.

Now, I have been going WDW for about 5 years now as an adult (DL as a child with my family). I have always enjoyed all the attractions, but the most fun that I have ever had, was on my last trip.

My dw and I took our then 14 month old ds to WDW for the 1st time. I rode Small World like 6 times in a 4 day period. The way the music and lights affected him, was more than I could have imagined. Yes, I ride Small World once every trip, but not 6 times. If wasn't until then, that I REALLY understood what Walt was trying to do.

Now, things have changed since 1955. I don't know how many more times I will be able to ride Small World for the Magic that it has on my ds. I seek other attractions. I look forward to attractions that are both kid-friendly and adult-orientated. I think that in today's marketplace, WDW would be very short-sighted to only build the attractions like those that Walt built in 1955. If Walt was a genius as we all think that he was, he, himself would have changed the direction of the parks. First, and foremost, Walt was a business man. Yes, he was a father. But he started DL to make money and provide a place for families to spend time together. If he did not intend to make money on WDW, he would not have been as secretive as he was about acquiring the land and the thoughts that he had for future expansion. Beyond the Magic Kingdom and Epcot, do we really know "What Walt Would Have Done?"

 

[Peter Pirate]

...that type of product was already in plentiful supply.

No it wasn't and this is the perfect example of using a quote out of context. Have you totally forgotton all of Walt's dispair and disdain with the seediness and seemliness of the other options? Yet this quote doesn't address that at all.

Walt was a genius and he certainly could appreciate a 'sound bite' better than most and the quote that you referenced was certainly putting DL in the best light, the light he wanted to put out to the public. But we all know of his real disenchantment with that era parks by simply reading... more quotes...

 

[WebmasterCricket]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
Have you totally forgotton all of Walt's dispair and disdain with the seediness and seemliness of the other options?

While I wasn't alive or at least cognitive of "seediness" back then, I do have to say that the abundance of that sort of park was much higher than today. I can count 7 that I remember in my area with only two still in operation. At the time, their "seediness" quota may have been seemingly higher than today. They also didn't charge admission which could account for a portion of the apparently negative atmosphere. It was a pay per ride only deal in every case as far as I remember. While the two that remain in business are not even in the same league as current amusement parks, they retain a nostalgic value that can't be paralleled even though they have changed very little.

How do you account for that value while still battling increasing expectations?


JC

 

[Peter Pirate]

How do you account for that value while still battling increased expecttios?

I hope I understood this correctly...

I think the answer is that there will always be varying degrees of common denominators and what's magical in on person's realm will have no meaning in anothers...While Disney reaches more people in this regard (or at least has) it is still a very specific group and memories and nostalgic feeling can and are emoted out of nearly any aspect of our live,s even though it could be totally meaningless to nearly everyone else...It's just the varying degree of applicability...

 

[crusader]

If the customers' expectation change, then your product must change in relation to those expectations. That only makes sense.

This sounds very basic and Walt-like philosophically. The customer of yesterday that Walt dealt with was polite; cordial; thankful; respectful; community oriented; family focused; lived through some of the most trying times in history and wanted nothing more than the absolute best for their children. Not for themselves you see, because that would exemplify vice not virtue and we were all fellow men and women in this great land of opportunity. We are talking about the greatest generation from whom Walt was a member.

What would Walt be dealing with today? Families - and then some! Instant gratification has spurned a whirlwind of impatient; frustrated; manipulative; demanding; stress-ridden spendthrifts. We're the "gotta have it" crowd. You couldn't possibly meet all of your customers' expectations today because they are predominantly self-serving.

But this brings me back to my main question, will pure quality of product ensure success today (1955 vs 2003) while still being able to maintain any profit margins at all?

No. Because most suppliers today are providing Disney an inferior product to what Walt was able to purchase. There are less and less durable goods being manufactured and more and more disposable products. Replaceable = more business.

If Disney were to concentrate its' efforts on providing only the best Grade A quality, they'd have to charge far more than the market would bear for a theme park vacation. They'd lose their shirts. And this doesn't even begin to take into consideration the overhead.

 

[EUROPA]

Wow the direction of this thread has me reeling....just a quick question before I pass out. In regards to the issue of Quality...and those that think that it should not be offered because it will drive the price up and in the long run you can never satisfy today's customer anyway. Is this in all aspects of business or just the ones Disney is involved in?

 

[WebmasterCricket]

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
expecttios

Is that some sort of new pornographic Chef Boyardee product?

LOL

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
I hope I understood this correctly...

I think you did. While I do agree my nostalgia is unique as is yours, I fail to see how in fifteen years ripping down Test Track or whatever to make way for "Hover-land, the Autopia of the future" (remember where you read that name first ) could cause any emotion other than "cool dude, A new ride".

I know this is straying a bit from your original post. I think it's fair to say Walt would have tried to spend the money to entertain both adults and children and would never have allowed an attraction to open without doing just that. Isn't that what people mean when they say "What would Walt do" essentially?

Big money doesn't always mean big entertainment. Small money can however mean more magic if applied correctly.

If COP is ever torn down, the sky will turn black and the plague might just return. I'm no financial genius but I'm sure it would cost less to fix up COP and keep it running than rip it down and slap in some crap that only appeases some teens for a few years.

JC

 

[crusader]

In regards to the issue of Quality...and those that think that it should not be offered because it will drive the price up and in the long run you can never satisfy today's customer anyway. Is this in all aspects of business or just the ones Disney is involved in?

I never said don't offer it. I said they'd lose their shirts if they tried to pass the costs off to the consumer and they basically can't afford it otherwise.

What constitutes a quality product today?
Take any industry:
Automobiles:
Textiles:
Hotels:
Electronics:
Food and Beverage:
Appliances:
Toys:

Now if Disney had to contract a food distributor or linens supplier or paper manufacturer or any other industry producer, what do you think the menu selection would look like on the other side?

 

[WebmasterCricket]

Originally posted by crusader
What constitutes a quality product today?
Take any industry:
...............

Electronics:
......

I can name quite a few electronics items that have gone down in price while making jumps ahead in both quality and technology.

JC

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by crusader
What constitutes a quality product today?

Maybe I'm just not understanding what your saying so in an attempt to not make any more enemies today. I'll just drop it.

As far as what constitutes a quality product today.....I don't think the rules have changed. A quality product is simply a product that has a degree of excellence or has superiority compared to another product of the same type. A quality product is something that meets or exceeds expectations. The real danger is letting your expectations drop so low that just about anything that does no break, fall apart, suck, taste bad(what have you) become your standard for Quality.

 

[crusader]

A quality product is something that meets or exceeds expectations.

This sounds subjective in that an expectation is not necessarily the same for every person.