Disneyland ending AP program as we know it

[ford91exploder]

Can you elaborate on why you don’t think DVC has a high PRGS? I ask because we are DVC and spend quite a bit on apparel, plushes, souvenirs, artwork, etc. per trip. I don’t think DVC members who travel for a vacation and local APs really have comparable in-park spending habits.

We usually have 10-12 of us in a grand villa so our villa’s guest spend is pretty darned high And I don’t think we are alone in that as DVC members. I think we splurge on things more than we would if we were paying rack rates for deluxe resorts.

DVC members do spend a lot, its just in Disney’s accounting. The one and dones spend MORE and if your time horizon is 90 days till the next quarters report you want the big onetime spenders. Remember there is another metric in finance called. Velocity. DVC may spend more per year but does not move the needle in current quarter so Disney is laser focused on the 'fast' money. much less so on hey this class of customers spends lots of money and does so reliably but not all at once.

 

[dreiwhit]

Disney now only wants the customers who are good for a fat bonus check.

Sadly, that's the way that all American businesses seem to have gone. More focus on getting new customers than keeping existing customers happy. I see it every day, and it drives me nuts.

FWIW, if you go to other non-Disney boards, you'll find a lot of Disney bashing going on. Disney may get the "fat bonus check" customers, but those customers are left with a bad taste in their mouths and don't want to go back to the parks.

Rumors have it that for years Disney wants their AP program to vanish and only sell 1 day tickets and packages.

It makes sense. Disney knows how often AP holders visit the parks. That's a lot of times that could be one day tickets and the revenue it would generate. With the current "wring every penny out of the parks" business model, It doesn't surprise me they would want to eliminate APs. Covid just provided a convenient excuse.

A friend of mine has said for years, "Never underestimate the greed of the mouse."

 

[Mit88]

It makes sense. Disney knows how often AP holders visit the parks. That's a lot of times that could be one day tickets and the revenue it would generate. With the current "wring every penny out of the parks" business model, It doesn't surprise me they would want to eliminate APs. Covid just provided a convenient excuse.

A friend of mine has said for years, "Never underestimate the greed of the mouse."

They’re not eliminating APs.

If you force people to pay single ticket admission, they’ll go less. If my gym were to charge me per visit rather than a monthly fee, I wouldn’t go to the gym. If Netflix charged me each time I logged in rather than a monthly fee, I wouldn’t use Netflix. APs would still go to Disney if they had to pay single day admission, but instead of going to the parks 30+ times, they’d probably go 5-10 times a year. While on average a vacationing family spends more inside the parks than an AP, the narrative that APs don’t spend money in the parks is false. So you’d be losing a lot of money with these APs going to the parks significantly less if they’re forced to buy single day admission

 

[Juventus]

..unless they keep capping the park attendance and they sell out. Then they don't need the APs. Maybe having less people in the park who spend more, AND they can reduce operating costs because there are less guests, is possible?

I hope not.

 

[jpeterson]

..unless they keep capping the park attendance and they sell out. Then they don't need the APs. Maybe having less people in the park who spend more, AND they can reduce operating costs because there are less guests, is possible?

I hope not.

If that's how things go for a while, I wouldn't expect APs to come out until that has stopped. WDW can't hit capacity with day tickets alone most days (or at all), but DL might be able to. They have a much larger pool of people nearby to pull from.

 

[Krandor]

They’re not eliminating APs.

If you force people to pay single ticket admission, they’ll go less. If my gym were to charge me per visit rather than a monthly fee, I wouldn’t go to the gym. If Netflix charged me each time I logged in rather than a monthly fee, I wouldn’t use Netflix. APs would still go to Disney if they had to pay single day admission, but instead of going to the parks 30+ times, they’d probably go 5-10 times a year. While on average a vacationing family spends more inside the parks than an AP, the narrative that APs don’t spend money in the parks is false. So you’d be losing a lot of money with these APs going to the parks significantly less if they’re forced to buy single day admission

Yeah the math for APs is that they spend less per visit but spend more per year due to going more.

 

[jessiegirl1982]

If that's how things go for a while, I wouldn't expect APs to come out until that has stopped. WDW can't hit capacity with day tickets alone most days (or at all), but DL might be able to. They have a much larger pool of people nearby to pull from.

Maybe for the first few weeks, but I can't imagine it would last very long before "members" (or whatever they plan to call the new AP program) are allowed to make reservations (top tiers anyway). DL is wayyyy more dependent on AP's than WDW is... problem is, though there are too many of them when capacity restrictions are in place (and too many OC locals with the SoCal Select and Deluxe passes that go to the park multiple times a week). DL can't fill the park long term with single day tickets even with such a large local base. They always have So Cal ticket deals in the Spring because they need help filling the park. The first summer SWGE opened where the lowest AP tiers and CM's were blocked, DL was a ghost town (it was amazing1!). Locals weren't paying $140 (or more with Maxpass) to get into the park for a single day. I personally won't be back to DL until I can get a reasonably priced membership. ..and for reference I live about 50 miles from DL, so local, but not by LA standards (2 1/2 hour drive at times, so we still usually get a hotel for the weekend since we have 2 young kids and the DH hates the traffic).

 

[jpeterson]

Maybe for the first few weeks, but I can't imagine it would last very long before "members" (or whatever they plan to call the new AP program) are allowed to make reservations (top tiers anyway). DL is wayyyy more dependent on AP's than WDW is... problem is, though there are too many of them when capacity restrictions are in place (and too many OC locals with the SoCal Select and Deluxe passes that go to the park multiple times a week). DL can't fill the park long term with single day tickets even with such a large local base. They always have So Cal ticket deals in the Spring because they need help filling the park. The first summer SWGE opened where the lowest AP tiers and CM's were blocked, DL was a ghost town (it was amazing1!). Locals weren't paying $140 (or more with Maxpass) to get into the park for a single day. I personally won't be back to DL until I can get a reasonably priced membership. ..and for reference I live about 50 miles from DL, so local, but not by LA standards (2 1/2 hour drive at times, so we still usually get a hotel for the weekend since we have 2 young kids and the DH hates the traffic).

It all depends on what capacity they open up at and how long they operate at reduced capacity. Certainly when they are fully open they won't fill the parks up often without APs.
This is just conjecture anyway. They may roll out a new AP system before they open but I wouldn't be surprised if they wait and see for a bit.

 

[jessiegirl1982]

It all depends on what capacity they open up at and how long they operate at reduced capacity. Certainly when they are fully open they won't fill the parks up often without APs.
This is just conjecture anyway. They may roll out a new AP system before they open but I wouldn't be surprised if they wait and see for a bit.

Oh, yeah I agree with you. It really just depends on how fast the vaccine roll out is, and when they are allowed (and the capacity they are allowed) to open. If Newsom continues with the cautious approach, they might open later, but with maybe a larger initial capacity (if the wait is long enough). Also with the Avengers campus opening, DCA will be able to hold more people so their max capacity will go up (and thereby a 35% initial opening will have more spots available). Most likely the first few weeks will be a lower capacity, and Disney will inch up capacity week by week.

 

[tlmadden73]

I've seen reviews of the surveys they've sent out on all the different possible tiers of tickets. They all seem pretty neat (and some quite affordable) .. just depends what each individual is looking for in an AP. Some care about parking, others care about Photo pass, etc.

I did see an option for a 12-day multi-use ticket. Basically a 12 day "annual" pass .. (with blockout dates) .. I'd love to see an option like that come to WDW .. a cheaper AP (that isn't limited to locals) .. but limited on days (or other options).

 

[ford91exploder]

Yeah the math for APs is that they spend less per visit but spend more per year due to going more.

But the problem for Disney is that the AP holders spend money slowly, We USED to spend new car money every year at Disney but it was spent over 4 quarters. What Disney wants is that 'new car money' in a single quarter because those trigger the bonus Targets

 

[ford91exploder]

I've seen reviews of the surveys they've sent out on all the different possible tiers of tickets. They all seem pretty neat (and some quite affordable) .. just depends what each individual is looking for in an AP. Some care about parking, others care about Photo pass, etc.

I did see an option for a 12-day multi-use ticket. Basically a 12 day "annual" pass .. (with blockout dates) .. I'd love to see an option like that come to WDW .. a cheaper AP (that isn't limited to locals) .. but limited on days (or other options).

Hope they have lots of storage space for those tickets...

 

[rteetz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1354510141819908097

 

[tlmadden73]

But the problem for Disney is that the AP holders spend money slowly, We USED to spend new car money every year at Disney but it was spent over 4 quarters. What Disney wants is that 'new car money' in a single quarter because those trigger the bonus Targets

I would think thought that APs get them that "new car money" in a single quarter ..

I spent $1200 on an AP last February and haven't gone a single day. They got essentially 10-11 days worth of ticket money from me and I haven't even used it yet.

If they sold APs now .. some families would drop 5 grand or more getting APs for the family in one big bulk purchase. I would think Disney would love that influx of income right now.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1354510141819908097

Interesting reading the comments on social networks. Lots of angry people saying "so they screw the Disneyland passholders again, all they care about are the Florida passholders" .... which I feel like all I usually hear is how historically there are always way more benefits to Disneyland passholders compared to WDW ones - so seems like a weird flex

 

[MickeyWaffles]

I would think thought that APs get them that "new car money" in a single quarter ..

I spent $1200 on an AP last February and haven't gone a single day. They got essentially 10-11 days worth of ticket money from me and I haven't even used it yet.

If they sold APs now .. some families would drop 5 grand or more getting APs for the family in one big bulk purchase. I would think Disney would love that influx of income right now.

Yeah, but it would just be a short term gain that would then cause them problems in 6 weeks when regular crowds start picking up again for spring break season (and into summer) when capacity is still limited.

The last thing they need is angry people who just bought new APs who then can’t book a park. It’s best to keep it as-is for now until capacity increases.

 

[gotomu212]

Yeah the math for APs is that they spend less per visit but spend more per year due to going more.

But the problem for Disney is that the AP holders spend money slowly, We USED to spend new car money every year at Disney but it was spent over 4 quarters. What Disney wants is that 'new car money' in a single quarter because those trigger the bonus Targets

The other side of the coin is the expense to Disney per park visit. Frequent APs cost Disney more to operate. Say each guest adds up to a $30 cost for Disney to staff (there’s some variable cost in there but just to simplify).

Person A pays $500 for their ticket and day in the park with food and merch, Disney netted $470 from them.
Person B has an AP and goes 25 times a year and spends $1000 for the year, Disney netted $250 from them (25 times $30 subtracted from $1000).

Obviously these numbers are skewed by the high volume visitors and the ones that show up and don’t eat in the parks, but APs consume more on the expense side.

Pass and membership businesses make money when people buy the pass but don’t use them. Heavy users actually cost more than they raise but are typically offset by the person who buys in thinking they’ll go to the gym but don’t.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The other side of the coin is the expense to Disney per park visit. Frequent APs cost Disney more to operate. Say each guest adds up to a $30 cost for Disney to staff (there’s some variable cost in there but just to simplify).

Person A pays $500 for their ticket and day in the park with food and merch, Disney netted $470 from them.
Person B has an AP and goes 25 times a year and spends $1000 for the year, Disney netted $250 from them (25 times $30 subtracted from $1000).

Obviously these numbers are skewed by the high volume visitors and the ones that show up and don’t eat in the parks, but APs consume more on the expense side.

Pass and membership businesses make money when people buy the pass but don’t use them. Heavy users actually cost more than they raise but are typically offset by the person who buys in thinking they’ll go to the gym but don’t.

right, but the more people in the park the less cost per person from Disney's end - which I think gets back to their desire to spread people out. While there are some variable costs based on attendance I am sure there are some fixed costs with having the parks open. So when the parks are 30% full it might be $50/person to run, but when they are 80% full (of normal capacity) they are $20/person to run ... they probably want to get it so the 80% only drops to like 75% but the 30% gest up to 45% or whatever so the overall cost per person is lower for the year

 

[gotomu212]

right, but the more people in the park the less cost per person from Disney's end - which I think gets back to their desire to spread people out. While there are some variable costs based on attendance I am sure there are some fixed costs with having the parks open. So when the parks are 30% full it might be $50/person to run, but when they are 80% full (of normal capacity) they are $20/person to run ... they probably want to get it so the 80% only drops to like 75% but the 30% gest up to 45% or whatever so the overall cost per person is lower for the year

Absolutely the cost is variable, but as it hits certain thresholds the variable cost jumps (I need one CM on a register if there’s one guest or ten, but when I hit eleven I need a second and the cost per guest just jumps again). With the serious overcrowding and the surge crowding where APs would show for a couple of hours and then leave I think some APs were bleeding the operating costs- especially the people who treated it like a coffee house or playground and went multiple times a week for play dates or to work from the parks.

 

[Twinkbelle]

I've been thinking about this, and it's similar to my local soccer team. I can't get a ticket to see them play because to the club I'm not worth much. I'm a local, I don't buy anything in the merch store on the day of the game, cos if I want anything I can go back there whenever I please, which means I'm comfortable to wait for a sale and pick things up at a slightly cheaper price. What the club want is the tourists who buy package deals including a hotel stay and match tickets. They are there buying half the store because it's maybe the only time in their life they'll get the chance. I bet there's AP holders that do the same, look at stuff and think I'll buy that thing when it's reduced. Point is they get the revenue in the end, just a little less of it.

I live on the opposite side of the world to Disneyland, I have only ever been there the once, I had to save up hard for a long time to get there, it was a bucket list experience for me. I didn't buy a lot of merch though. I got 2 shirts, a handful of pins for myself and picked up a few other bits for friends. I found the merch to be overpriced. It was nice enough stuff, just I couldn't justify their prices. Also another consideration when you're travelling...space. Especially if you're travelling internationally, you don't have a lot of it, you're limited in the amount of capacity you have to carry stuff with you. Disney charge a fortune for international shipping too so you're unlikely to just get them to ship stuff home for you.

In terms of merch sales I was probably worth less than an AP holder over the course of a year, and I would imagine I'm not the only one who would travel for the experience of seeing the original park, of going on the rides and seeing the shows, not for the merch once you get there.