does anyone feel guilty?

[thbath77]

I have a beautiful overactive almost 3 year old. We don't have an actually diagnosis because we're told there isn't one yet. He has a smile that could light up a room and while you can't tell by just looking at him get him in a large crowd and, my boy gets overstimulated and can't calm down. We will be getting a GAC when we go in September with a note from the doctor (however there will only be 4 of us).

Doing a college internship in the past. I have to agree with other posters that the cm was in direct disobedience of her rules so she made the situation worse. The moral of the story is don't judge a book by it's cover. Your in the happiest place on earth with the most important people in your life. Try not to let people who abuse the system bother you.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

A little OT but I was in BG tampa once and was in line one of the big coasters, I want to say it was sheikra...and up the disability entrance I see a large party with grandma in a wheelchair. She looked half asleep and at the least 85. I was like no way she is going to ride.(just thought in my head, I didn't say anything) Of course they go ahead of the rest of us. I'll be damned if she didn't get on that ride! She had to be carried on by a member of her party but she rode it! I was you go grandma

LoL! We saw something like that at Hershey Park. LoL!

I'm talking more about the people who grab grandma and present her for her GAC, then park her under a tree while they hop on Space Mountain... Which I have seen happen.

Hershey Park was the worst with that though, worse than Disney. They told people (when I went, anyway) that if they had a disability that they should walk in the exit area to the unloading docks and they and their party will be seated. We rushed into the ride line for a coaster that was nearby, frantic to jump on before closing because their policy was, again, at the time, when the announcement went out, regardless of how many people were in line the ride had to be shut down. This poor guy running the ride on his own, calling people over, seating them, checking safty restraints, and firing the ride off. He was hammering people out, trying to get as many people through as possible and people were really cooperating, going more effeciently then I've ever seen people get on and off a ride. He had a ride stopped, unloaded, loaded, and launched again in 20 seconds or less. Anyway, a party of like 10 people walked down the exit and stood, waiting to be loaded. The guy walked over and asked what their disability was, and a guy pointed at a pre-teen, young teenaged child and said "He has ADHD." The attendant said that he appreciated that, but it wasn't a condition that prevented him from standing in line and, so if he wanted to, he'd load the kid and an adult, but nobody else. The family freaked, and I mean FREAKED, the hell out. They wanted everybody in the party to go, called the guy this and that and the other, yadda yadda yadda. Finally the guy turned around and said "Sir, some of these folks have been waiting for 20 or 30 minutes for this ride and I have a very limited amount of time. I don't want people who've waited half an hour to miss riding the ride because I've filled an entire coaster with a party of people who've just walked on. I will seat the person with the disability and one guardian, but that's it. Everybody else can wait in line." The line of people waiting to get on burst into cheers and claps. The attendant was told by a guy waiting to load that, at the end of the night, he'd seen this same party walk up the exit numerous times to all the high profile rides right at closing and demand to get on in front of ride lines that were 90+ minutes. The attendant said he'd figured, a lot of people at the end of the night develop afflictions that get them onto rides faster so they miss nothing before close.

At another ride, very similar to RRC, people would come up the exit for disability seating and the attendants told everybody that if they were too physically fragile to wait in the line, they were not able to medically withstand the forces of the ride and refused boarding. That is, I think, an awesome policy that, for some rides, is really the appropriate thing to do.

 

[stargazertechie]

The only time I get really upset is when we go to see a show at WDW (his favorite thing) and there are able bodied people taking up the w/c spots. By "able bodied", I mean people who can transfer to a theatre seat, but would rather drive their ECV to the front row and take the spot. There are only a few of those seats in front (a lot in the back, but he has vision issues too), and when I see those people I get cranky.

Just food for thought for you- my dad rented the ECV not only for stamina, but also because it had a high back with headrest and it was padded. There's no way that he could sit comfortably for 25-50 minutes on a hard wooden bench.

 

[bouncycat]

I agree with you Star....I can transfer out of my chair for the shows, but I don't because my chair has a back. Those hard benches do not do a body well that has certain needs.

I've been watching this thread, and I am one of those that cannot climb stairs, stand for very long, or even sit for very long without severe pain. There are times in the day that I get out of my chair, put it in manual mode, and walk with it empty, just so I can streach out and loosen up the joints. I have Muscular Dystrophy, and by looking at me, I seem normal, but when I walk, I very closely resemble Donald Duck. I have a GAC, I NEVER go over the limit of 6 total, and I never give my pass to someone else. If I can't ride a ride, they get FP's or go standby. there are some rides that I can't do because of the pain issue, and I will not do those rides. People that I go with have asked to use my pass when I haven't gone, but I will NOT!! I do not want to abuse this system because I don't want them to take it away. There are MANY times where we wait longer than the posted standby time. TSM, TM, Space, and HM are ones that come to mind. I love those rides, and I wait as I'm supposed to. when in shows, we have one person sit with me, and the rest usually end up in front of us. Sometimes they move them and they get separated. So, we have a place to meet up after the shows if need be. I do not use disney busses since we're local, but If I did, I usually go to the regular line, and then the driver pulls me out and loads me first. I hate having to be loaded like that, especially in the summer time when those guys are kinda stinky. There are times where I have said I wish people could spend one day needing assistance, and in a chair, and maybe their outlook would change. I would GLADLY trade my constant pain, for a body that works right so I can walk. So....no, I don't feel guilty using my card, cause most of the time, the wait is longer.

 

[Shelton123]

It's best not to judge. There are so many disabilities that someone can have. Some make it easier to stand up (i.e. standing in line), but very hard to walk around, others make it easier to walk around, but they can't stand up... some can't do either. The worst is when people judge teenagers and young adults who have EVC's or wheelchairs or what have you, yeah because disabilities in young people don't exist (sarcasm).

Yes there are a few who abuse the system, but I'm sure the people who really need it vastly outnumber the few who abuse it.

 

[captinhookedondisney]

And some disabilities even enhance the Disney experience. Or experience it in a different way by noticing and looking at different things.

While these are usually restricted to intellectual and learning disabilities like dyslexia and dyscalculia. These disabilities usually allow for the extra-development of the right hemisphere of the brain, allowing for a more creative view on the world!

 

[minnie mum]

To return to the OPs original observations and question:

Those who need to use a wheelchair or ECV or GAC do not feel guilty for using a device or service to which they are entitled by virtue of their disability. Nor should they.

Those who do NOT need to use these devices or services, but choose to use them (and abuse the system) for some perceived extra benefit do not feel guilty because they have a moral compass pointed 180 degrees away from normal. If they felt guilt they wouldn't do it.

Does that answer the original question?

And I do agree that Disney could do more to insist that CMs enforce the limits on group size accompanying those with GACs and wheelchairs/ECVs. But in my experience these situations are not nearly as frequent as the OP would have us believe.

 

[walkdmc]

Who cares about this stuff? I don't even notice GAC passes being handed over to CMs. Thank goodness I don't need one and bless anyone using one, whether they have physical reason or not. I can't imagine my kids hearing my sniveling complaints about someone in a wheelchair getting "special" treatment or "faking" handicaps.

I'll tell you who should feel guilty...the 40-ish year old man right ahead of DH and I in line at RNR Saturday morning. I saw you wave to your phantom mate waaaaay ahead of you in line. Then I saw you weave your way through the people to meet your ghost "friend". I wouldn't be so annoyed with you, sir, if you didn't leave DH and I directly behind the Brazillian family who exhibited waaaaaaaaaay too much PDA.

 

[Bettie]

This thread makes me really sad, that some people seem to be so obsessed with policing everyone else and feeling out of sorts over some perceived injustice when a disabled person has a shorter wait in line. Or wants everyone in their party to go on a ride or take the bus together. I've been to Disney at the absolute most crowded times, and I didn't see any of these phantom groups of 18 people taking the bus together, etc. I really paid no attention to what anyone else was doing other than my own family. No, I take that back. I often thought to myself how wonderful it was that Disney goes to such great lengths to make the magic accessible for everyone, regardless of physical ability, and also how great it was that they had so many physically disabled people working in frontline customer service positions. It's clear that Disney has placed an institutional priority on this, and I think it's great...and in keeping with Walt's vision.

 

[captinhookedondisney]

Bettie! You got it right.

Some comments here are proof of the Social Lens of disability.
Disney has come up with a way to really remove discrimination on their part, but society is putting the discrimination on the GAC. Like every system there are impurities.

 

[smitch425]

This thread makes me really sad, that some people seem to be so obsessed with policing everyone else and feeling out of sorts over some perceived injustice when a disabled person has a shorter wait in line. Or wants everyone in their party to go on a ride or take the bus together. I've been to Disney at the absolute most crowded times, and I didn't see any of these phantom groups of 18 people taking the bus together, etc. I really paid no attention to what anyone else was doing other than my own family. No, I take that back. I often thought to myself how wonderful it was that Disney goes to such great lengths to make the magic accessible for everyone, regardless of physical ability, and also how great it was that they had so many physically disabled people working in frontline customer service positions. It's clear that Disney has placed an institutional priority on this, and I think it's great...and in keeping with Walt's vision.

As I said before, I have no issue with the rides, the bus situation could use some type of review in procedures, though.

HOWEVER, I have to say that I find it sad that so many people in this thread are saying that what people have reported seeing "didn't happen" or stating that they are "phantom groups". To me, it is like you are calling us liars, and without knowing us, THAT is pretty judgemental. I mean, when I say I saw something, I SAW IT. I didn't say "I heard so and so saw...". I mean, my kids also saw these groups (and believe me, I had to try my best to answer MANY questions about why they were allowed to go before us when we had been there 30-40 minutes ahead of those people), but if you would like to also insinuate that my kids are liars, well then... yeah, that's sad.

I agree that no one does better than Disney when it comes to accomodating EVERYONE'S needs, but I do think THE WAY they handle certain things could be due for a review.

 

[SashaFarce]

At another ride, very similar to RRC, people would come up the exit for disability seating and the attendants told everybody that if they were too physically fragile to wait in the line, they were not able to medically withstand the forces of the ride and refused boarding. That is, I think, an awesome policy that, for some rides, is really the appropriate thing to do.

I think that is terrible. It is not a CM's job to tell me what I am physically capable of. It is not another customer's place to decide what may or may not be wrong with me. My particular health issue, as well as my partner's, has no bearing on what I can "withstand." That's just rude to assume.

 

[smidgy]

People in wheelchairs do not go to the front of the line. They're loaded from an alternate waiting area. In the case of IASW, they are boarded through the exit because there is no way to get the wheelchair or ECV across the water channel from the entrance to the exit.

In other lines, the line is mainstreamed to a point, and then WC/ECV are loaded from an alternate loading point. This may be due to the design of the queue (TSM & Splash have stairs, for example) or navigation difficulties (such as HM, where they can slow the moving sidewalk from the exit).

Some rides (such as soarin') have fully mainstreamed lines.

And just because a line is wheelchair accessible does not mean that the line meets the needs of every single person with a disability. I know there is a poster here (and I don't want to mention the wrong name) who has vision issues that make it difficult to transition from bright light to darkness and back. In this case, the line at Haunted Mansion doesn't work because you go inside, then outside, then back in. In my dad's case, he can't be in the sun for a prolonged period of time, and he needs to remain seated for as long as possible or he passes out. When we want to ride the speedway, we are directed to an alternate waiting area where he can sit in the shade until it is our turn to ride.

In my experience, my wait times were similar to, if not longer than the posted wait times.

you may be referring to my hubby, Nebo. if you are not, you could be!! he has Macular Degeneration.. and can't see good in the dark.. heck , he can't see good in "the Dim". (if any of you knew Nebos' sense of humor, you would be laughing at his)

it gets worse with each trip, and I am trying to convince him to get a GAC for the next trip. but he doesn't want to be embarrasses or looked downon,e tc.

we would not abuse it. but it takes us a really long time to get through the queue at POTC, haunted mansion, Nemo at living seas. even the inside areas of the line at splash mt. etc. I lead him through, but people behind us get really mad that we are not walking fast enough. and push, shove, make comments. sometimes he's like "screw it, I don't even want to ride that anymore... not worth the angst."
now if we could sit inside somewhere for awhile while his eyes adjust to the dark, then ride the ride right away, that would be good.
but stumbling through the queue, trying to look for the rails, the stairs, etc. with people bumping up behind you, complainig, etc.
oh! and I love the comments like "well, if he can't see, why is he going on the ride anyway?"

he CAN see, IF he can adjust his eyes, and not have to work them too hard trying to get through the queue..
and I am getting all worked up here... and

why don't you all who don't need a GAC or can walk with the speed of light or whatever just take a moment to consider you might not know everyone's situation, and not be quick to judge... and.. gee.. in the long run.. a few minutes more of a wait will not kill you.. just take a deep breath and be thankful you have no health or physical issues.

 

[mrzrich]

At another ride, very similar to RRC, people would come up the exit for disability seating and the attendants told everybody that if they were too physically fragile to wait in the line, they were not able to medically withstand the forces of the ride and refused boarding. That is, I think, an awesome policy that, for some rides, is really the appropriate thing to do.

WOW!

This policy is in no way "awsome" or in any way "the right thing to do".

No way a CM should be making that kind of "Blanket Statement". I am a hospice nurse who once cared for a 30 yo man with terminal cancer. His dying wish was to go to Busch Gardens and ride Kumba, Montu and Sheikra. If that CM was working there, making those kind of judgements, or if that type of policy was in place, this dying man would have been denied his wish.

Until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes, you need to just live and let live. Waiting 5 more minutes in line so a handicapped person can ride won't kill any one.

 

[skater]

If you need it, you should use it with no guilt. If you're abusing the system, that's on you - I'm not going to waste my trip by worrying about what you're doing. As far as the family limit of who gets on the bus with ECV user, I guess we "abused" it last Sept. Mom used ECV, there were 5 in my family + my Dad. I never even thought about not getting on bus with Mom. Sometimes she was in so much pain at the end of the day, that she couldn't hold the tears back. I just couldn't be worried that we're one or two people too many - I was taking care of my Mom. In all honesty, we rarely used the bus in peak times, so I don't think we often inconvenienced anybody, but I most like would not have felt too guilty about it. The situation I was dealing with was too rough to be worried about it.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I obviously agree that anyone who needs this pass should use it completely guilt-free, following the rules of use. And I wouldn't worry for a second that if abused it will be revoked for those who really need it - Disney would never do that - bad business all around.

Like any system, there is room for abuse... and this DOES get abused. On many occasions I've seen more than 6 people for one pass. I just shrug it off - not worth getting worked up over IMHO.

 

[nkereina]

Didn't read all the posts. As a PP said, the bus situation needs to be reevaluated. I too have seen 6+ people board along with an ECV person which is unnecessary. At POR, and I'd imagine other bus depots as well, there is a sign that clearly states a max of six people can board with an ECV (or maybe 6 including the ECV person?) but I have never once seen this enforced. If they did enforce this, it probably wouldn't irk people as much.

 

[21hearts]

I didn't read all of the replies. I have a daughter who can't walk due to a medical condition. Her right leg swells up anywhere from 3 to 6 times the size of her left. If she walks/stands to much on it she is in extreme pain. Without the disability pass our family wouldn't be able to experience WDW. With the GAC we can use her stroller as a wheelchair. There are 5 members of my family (DH, our three kids & myself). If we go to WDW with another able bodied adult (DH had a back injury he got while deployed & can't carry/hold/lift more then 10 lbs without being in pain himself) then we don't use the pass. I carry/hold Rachel & the other adult carries/hold my younger daughter.

And from our experience the only ride that we were put right on was Peter Pan's Flight. The other rides we just wheeled her stroller right through the stand by or fastpass (if we have them) lines.

I do not feel guilty using the GAC at all.

Also when we get my daughters GAC the CM's always stress to me that my daughter & up to 5 other people are covered by the card. So the whole extended family going on IASW shouldn't of happened. And we don't use the buses so I can't comment on that. We find that driving our own car to the parks works the best for us because of all the stuff we have to bring in it would be a huge PITA to unload the stroller and then fold it up and then to try to hold onto it all at the end of the day with the kids. Just easier to unload all of her medical gear to the car form the stroller at the end of the day.

 

[Love Tink]

This is a non-awesome policy that - if this story is true - almost certainly eventually got this employeee fired, and possibly named as a co-defendant in a civil law suit.

I read a few of these responses (actually, the majority are very supportive, though) and thought, "How could anyone be this ignorant and arrogant about disabilities?" then I realized that you are this way because you've never had to deal with them yourselves. Lucky you.

 

[lustergirl]

This thread makes me really sad, that some people seem to be so obsessed with policing everyone else and feeling out of sorts over some perceived injustice when a disabled person has a shorter wait in line. Or wants everyone in their party to go on a ride or take the bus together. I've been to Disney at the absolute most crowded times, and I didn't see any of these phantom groups of 18 people taking the bus together, etc. I really paid no attention to what anyone else was doing other than my own family. No, I take that back. I often thought to myself how wonderful it was that Disney goes to such great lengths to make the magic accessible for everyone, regardless of physical ability, and also how great it was that they had so many physically disabled people working in frontline customer service positions. It's clear that Disney has placed an institutional priority on this, and I think it's great...and in keeping with Walt's vision.

Amen sister.