Does your 4 year old use a carseat on the plane?

[NHdisneylover]

It happens. As long as the parents are doing their best to stop it, there's no reason to get worked up. Every time I fly, there are elderly people who bump into the seats and use my seat as leverage to get up. Do I like it? No. Do I get worked up about it? Of course not. Flying (at least coach) is not a luxurious experience. I'm likely to be jostled, overwhelmed by someone's terrible cologne or perfume and generally squished. Breathe in, breathe out and do our best to be considerate of others in whatever small way we can.

I don't recline my seat when I know the person behind me has their tray table down. I don't wear scents on planes. I do my best to make sure my party is quiet. That said, things happen. When I see/hear a child having a meltdown, I recognize that 99% of parents are embarrassed and doing whatever they can to calm their child. Kids are usually exhausted, have waited in terminals, etc. for ages, are in a strange situation. Did you know that if your feet are dangling for long periods, your legs will fall asleep? That is a factor in why kids start pushing/kicking with their feet. Children can be inconvenient. So can elderly people. There is no point in getting upset - I am part of society and if I don't care to deal with inconvenient people, I'll have to become a hermit.

I totally agree with the bolded (and much of the rest of your post). I have not seen anyone say anything to the contrary. The problem comes when some parents do not think they should need to try to control the kicking (or whatever else). You often see the attitude that if the person ahead would just not recline then the kid would not kick so let the kid kick if the person wnats to recline. This type of rudeness may not be a huge deal to someone who takes maybe one or two round trips domestic fligths a year, but to those who travel weekly (or more) for work and for whom tha tthree hour domestic flight may be the last leg of 10 or more hours of travel it is a much bigger issue.

I, for one, do not mind dealing with inconveineint people and experiences with flying--it comes with the territory and there is only so much anyone can do. I do not get work up about parents who are visibly trying to comfort a child crying with ear pain, I DO mind dealing with rude people. That can and should be prevented.

 

[bavaria]

The vast majority of anti-recliners here seem to fly very infrequently, and/or on short flights.

If you were flying over 22 hours, over 3 flights, for instance, would you feel the same way?

It is rude to insist that your fellow flyers do not recline, when there is no restriction against doing so except during take off and landing.

If it bothers you so much, fly an aircraft with an economy cabin with extra space, or upgrade to a premium cabin, or fly an aircraft with clamshell seats.

 

[annette20071]

The vast majority of anti-recliners here seem to fly very infrequently, and/or on short flights.

If you were flying over 22 hours, over 3 flights, for instance, would you feel the same way?

It is rude to insist that your fellow flyers do not recline, when there is no restriction against doing so except during take off and landing.

If it bothers you so much, fly an aircraft with an economy cabin with extra space, or upgrade to a premium cabin, or fly an aircraft with clamshell seats.

Seriously. We could make the same suggestions to you. I am not anti-recline. Yes reclining is allowed, although it is intended for night travel. Car seats are also allowed. What bugs me is when someone said, parents shouldn't bring carseats because when I recline I squish the kid and then the kid kicks. I think when a person knows they are making the person behind them uncomfortable, and they still choose that action then that is what is inconsiderate and rude. I have flown numerous times. Both with and without family, and I have never had an issue. I do not know why you made the assumption that "anti-recliners fly infrequently". What on earth gave you that impression?

 

[bavaria]

Well, I DO pay extra out of my pocket to fly in seats with extra space and/or to upgrade. I flew over 200,000 miles last year, and the vast majority of the time it was in my preferred seat, or with an upgrade for which I personally paid.

I AM concious of my fellow travellers and self-aware of my needs.

But I would not dare to impose on others. If I cannot get a seat which works for me, I choose to deplane and fly later at my own cost. I do not ask or expect anyone to move or to assist me.

What amazes me here over and over is how over the past decade the tone has changed so that simply having a child seems to be some sort of disability, or takes priority over anyone else, including those with needs or the elderly.

I DO take responsibility for myself and I DO choose not to impose on others. Yet many parents here feel that they can demand respect and demand that others do everything to make them comfortable.

It may be time to consider others for a change.

 

[nansmama]

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[brentm3]

My DS4 is over the size & weight limit for the CARES device, but I will be using it next week regardless. (Quick! Someone call DCFS!)

With the CARES, the lap belt is still employed as it was designed, the CARES simply offers additional shoulder retraints connecting the lap belt to the upper strap.

Nobody has tried, and nobody could convince me the CARES + lap belt is less safe than the lap belt alone, regardless of whatever limit the FAA/DOT/whoever imposed.

I do believe a carseat would be better still, but in the event of a bad landing* (see definition below) I'm resigning myself to the thought that the seat probably wouldn't change the outcome much. (that said, I would still use a seat for 3yo and under...)

God Bless the people who do take the seat into the plane, I've done it many times, even dealt with a man who repeatedly slammed his seatback into my infant's rear facing seat and started yelling (violently, as in a stewardess came running.) That incident did not deter me for future flights though. It is no picnic dealing with the seat, especially the wider (but still FAA approved) ones.

I hope I always remain compassionate to the plight of fellow people, in all circumstances, and never feel entitled to inconvenience someone else for a miniscule amount of my own comfort. I'm 6'1" and have significant back problems (getting another MRI today), but I will not be reclining unless the person behind me is short or asleep.

* Pilot's definitions: a good landing is one you can walk away from, a great landing is one where the plane can be used again.

 

[bavaria]

When you board an aircraft, you can only reasonably expect so much from other passengers.

Reclining is permitted, so expecting or demanding that someone does not do so isn't fair or sociable.

Best is to plan ahead, and do as people here have advised. That may mean seating one member of your party in the seat in front of the car seat, or it may mean forgoing the car seat for your larger child.

But planning to demand things from others really isn't fair, and doesn't set a positive tone. Other passengers or crew may be willing to help, but if one is unreasonable or makes demands rather than requests, the willingless is diminished.

As with anything, plan for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[dmoore718]

Mine was 3 last year and she was fine with no carseat.

 

[annette20071]

When you board an aircraft, you can only reasonably expect so much from other passengers.

Reclining is permitted, so expecting or demanding that someone does not do so isn't fair or sociable.

Best is to plan ahead, and do as people here have advised. That may mean seating one member of your party in the seat in front of the car seat, or it may mean forgoing the car seat for your larger child.

But planning to demand things from others really isn't fair, and doesn't set a positive tone. Other passengers or crew may be willing to help, but if one is unreasonable or makes demands rather than requests, the willingless is diminished.

As with anything, plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Let it go already. Lots of things are permitted, that does not mean they are necessary or considerate or right. Most people would not think it unreasonable for someone not to recline and squish the person behind them. Apparently you don't. Whatever. Not everyone flies with a huge party to buy all seats around them. Anytime you are in public, you have to deal with the public. That may mean kids in carseats or people who recline or whatever. We all have to compromise, and no one is going to win this battle. We will all do what "we" choose when we fly.

 

[bavaria]

And in return, please don't assume that any passenger can tell another that they may or may not recline. (Either here, or in person)

The airlines permit it except during takeoff and landing, so do expect that many passengers will do so. People with car seats need to be aware that it may happen, and need to plan for that.

There isn't anything wrong with reclining, and it is not fair to try and make people feel bad for doing so.

 

[annette20071]

And in return, please don't assume that any passenger can tell another that they may or may not recline. (Either here, or in person)

The airlines permit it except during takeoff and landing, so do expect that many passengers will do so. People with car seats need to be aware that it may happen, and need to plan for that.

There isn't anything wrong with reclining, and it is not fair to try and make people feel bad for doing so.

Wow. You must REALLY like to recline. And in return, please know that families travel with kids in carseats, and your seat might get bumped if you aren't considerate of those around you. So, please don't tell people not to bring carseats - just expect it and plan accordingly. The airplanes permit carseats (during the entire flight!). There is nothing wrong with using car seats. In fact, according to experts it is the safest way for a child to travel. So, it is not fair to try to make people feel bad for doing so.

 

[maxiesmom]

Wow. You must REALLY like to recline. And in return, please know that families travel with kids in carseats, and your seat might get bumped if you aren't considerate of those around you. So, please don't tell people not to bring carseats - just expect it and plan accordingly. The airplanes permit carseats (during the entire flight!). There is nothing wrong with using car seats. In fact, according to experts it is the safest way for a child to travel. So, it is not fair to try to make people feel bad for doing so.

No one is trying to make you feel bad for using a car seat. However if you are using one and the person in front of you reclines, that still doesn't make it is ok for your child to kick the seat in front of them. One should have nothing to do with the other. Kicking the seat in front of you is not acceptable behavior, if the seat is reclined or not. And using a car seat is not a built in excuse to let your child do so. Some people here are making it sound like it is.

 

[JUJU814]

Let it go already. Lots of things are permitted, that does not mean they are necessary or considerate or right. Most people would not think it unreasonable for someone not to recline and squish the person behind them. Apparently you don't. Whatever. Not everyone flies with a huge party to buy all seats around them. Anytime you are in public, you have to deal with the public. That may mean kids in carseats or people who recline or whatever. We all have to compromise, and no one is going to win this battle. We will all do what "we" choose when we fly.

I am a person who flies rather frequently and I choose NOT to recline because I do care about the people behind me and their comfort. So, unless I'm really really tired or something, or it's a super long flight, I keep my seat upright. I am aware that there is someone behind me that may be using their tray, or possibly a child in a carseat or something.

That's just me..I try to be considerate of those around me.

I also think it's extremely unreasonable, as an adult, to expect to NOT get kicked AT ALL by a child who might be sitting behind you. Obviously it's not something that the parents should ignore, encourage or "allow" but any reasonable adult with half a brain that may have had kids of their own KNOWS full well that little kids sometimes kick.

If I'm on a plane sitting next to my small child, and they kick, I'll *immediately* speak to them and deal with it..but the kicking is already done. It might happen again. Maybe two or three more times depending on the length of the flight. I won't ignore it, but it still HAPPENS.

Any *reasonable* adult knows this and accepts that things happen when there are small kids on your flight. It's like getting on a flight and KNOWING there could be screaming kids.

An uncomfortable squished toddler MIGHT kick a little.

Personally, I deal with it. I didn't think I was a very flexible person till I read some of the in-flexible posts on these threads!

 

[maxiesmom]

I also think it's extremely unreasonable, as an adult, to expect to NOT get kicked AT ALL by a child who might be sitting behind you. Obviously it's not something that the parents should ignore, encourage or "allow" but any reasonable adult with half a brain that may have had kids of their own KNOWS full well that little kids sometimes kick.

If I'm on a plane sitting next to my small child, and they kick, I'll *immediately* speak to them and deal with it..but the kicking is already done. It might happen again. Maybe two or three more times depending on the length of the flight. I won't ignore it, but it still HAPPENS.

Any *reasonable* adult knows this and accepts that things happen when there are small kids on your flight. It's like getting on a flight and KNOWING there could be screaming kids.

Oh, I would totally understand a little one kicking my seat once or twice. But by some of the replies on here, it sounds almost like the parent will be going "Kick it hard sweetie!" if the person in front of them dares to recline their seat!

Kids will kick, I get that. But the parent needs to do what they can to limit the kicking, and not have an 'Oh well, that is what they get for putting their seat back" attitude.

 

[HolliePoppins]

Once a person reclines, EVERYONE is squished, regardless of whether they are in a carseat or not. I think you need to reconsider who is being inconsiderate of others. A carseat is about safety - not anyone's comfort. Parents are able to control their children's behavior most of the time. If my DD is kicking the seat (whether in a carseat or not) I will tell them to stop. That is, unless of course, the person in front of us is reclining and squishing everone. Then I am inclined to kick their seat myself![/QUOTE]

It is statements like these that are getting the OP the responses that they are.

 

[bavaria]

For those of you who smugly post that you have some sort of moral superiority because you do not recline your seat, I challenge you to fly 22 hours or more in a bolt upright position.

By the end of your travel day, you won't be any more superior than anyone else - you'll just be more tired and more exhausted, more likely. If reclining bothers you so much, do as I do and pay for a seat in a cabin with more economy space, or pay to upgrade, or fly carriers with clamshell seats. I do that, and reclining doesn't impact others in that situation. But I don't consider myself morally superior for doing so - just looking after my needs without imposing on others.

Nobody has told any parent here not to bring a car seat, but many have outlined some of the challenges with a larger child in a car seat. In contrast, many have made some rather negative comments and behaved as if they are somehow a better person for imposing their demands on others, or even told people that they are not to recline on board an aircraft.

Again, airlines permit passengers to recline. Expect that if you have a larger child in a car seat that they may lack space. If your only plan is to ask that the person in front of you not recline, you may be disappointed.

There has been some excellent advice on this thread about how to deal with larger children.

 

[Hannathy]

No one is trying to make you feel bad for using a car seat. However if you are using one and the person in front of you reclines, that still doesn't make it is ok for your child to kick the seat in front of them. One should have nothing to do with the other. Kicking the seat in front of you is not acceptable behavior, if the seat is reclined or not. And using a car seat is not a built in excuse to let your child do so. Some people here are making it sound like it is.

Agree. Kicking a seat is never acceptable. Will it happen, sure but I expect the parent to stop it not encourage it. That is what I find annoying about the attitude of some parents on here. The go ahead sweetie kick it all you want that bad person actually wants to use the seat they bought so you can kick it all you want. I have traveled a lot with kids and have they kicked the seat, yep, but they were told accompanied by the stare of death that they won't be doing it anymore and if they do they will apologize to the person in front of them. I understand small kids will do something without thinking and that is why there is a parent near to correct and prevent and teach acceptable behavior when in public not encourage them to be rude and selfish and believe they are more important than anyone else.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Oh, I would totally understand a little one kicking my seat once or twice. But by some of the replies on here, it sounds almost like the parent will be going "Kick it hard sweetie!" if the person in front of them dares to recline their seat!

Kids will kick, I get that. But the parent needs to do what they can to limit the kicking, and not have an 'Oh well, that is what they get for putting their seat back" attitude.

Agreed. As a mom, my kids did knock the seats now and agains as little ones, and as a mom I did my darndest to stop them regardless of how the person had their seat set.

Once a person reclines, EVERYONE is squished, regardless of whether they are in a carseat or not. I think you need to reconsider who is being inconsiderate of others. A carseat is about safety - not anyone's comfort. Parents are able to control their children's behavior most of the time. If my DD is kicking the seat (whether in a carseat or not) I will tell them to stop.That is, unless of course, the person in front of us is reclining and squishing everone. Then I am inclined to kick their seat myself!

It is statements like these that are getting the OP the responses that they are.

Thanks for finding that quote That is EXACTLY the type of thing some of are responding to (and it does happen in reality, not just on a message board).

Agree. Kicking a seat is never acceptable. Will it happen, sure but I expect the parent to stop it not encourage it. That is what I find annoying about the attitude of some parents on here. The go ahead sweetie kick it all you want that bad person actually wants to use the seat they bought so you can kick it all you want. I have traveled a lot with kids and have they kicked the seat, yep, but they were told accompanied by the stare of death that they won't be doing it anymore and if they do they will apologize to the person in front of them. I understand small kids will do something without thinking and that is why there is a parent near to correct and prevent and teach acceptable behavior when in public not encourage them to be rude and selfish and believe they are more important than anyone else.

I still think a lot of the difference comes from people who fly a few times a year on short (5 hours or less) flights not really considering that the reclining person in front of them may be on the last leg of a loooong journey and need that bit of recline to keep their head from dropping forward when they fall asleep (and they need that sleep!). My DH has had weeks where he is gone for 6 nights but only spends 2 in hotels. All the rest are "overnight" flights that he has to try to sleep on-grabbing showers in airport lounges along the way. I know some of the posters here fly more than my DH and likely have many similar schedules. So, yeah, if that is all the sleep you are getting for days you do REALLY like to recline.

Again, I do not have any problem with anyone bringing a carseat on a flight at all. Personally I do not like to and I explained why because I thought the information would be helpful who was trying to decide what to do. I have not seen any poster who said people should not bring or use the car seats--only posters who take issue with attitudes such as the one posted above.