Dogs and Couches

[luvsJack]

Disagree, but done going round and round.

There is no reason for a shock collar to be on a puppy. None.

If the dog was less than 25 lbs, it should not have had one on regardless. But you didn’t answer the questions. I know you have issues with the collars but that doesn’t answer the questions either.

If the collar was the wireless fence, makes no sense to have it on out of the yard. If it was the training kind, they shouldn’t have had it on the dog all the time. The point is to train them to the beep and to commands and if the owner isn’t going to be commanding the dog, they shouldn’t have the thing on them. OTOH, the training collars are FOR young dogs.

And the only reasons the dog’s neck would be irritated is if the collar was too tight, it was allergic to the material of the collar or the owner kept it turned up way too high with the electronic part where the hair is sparse (although, I have never seen one that would go up that high). The dog should be trained to the beep and the owner’s command, which wouldn’t irritate the skin.

So like I said, sounds like a owner who didn’t know what they were doing.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

If the dog was less than 25 lbs, it should not have had one on regardless. But you didn’t answer the questions. I know you have issues with the collars but that doesn’t answer the questions either.

If the collar was the wireless fence, makes no sense to have it on out of the yard. If it was the training kind, they shouldn’t have had it on the dog all the time. The point is to train them to the beep and to commands and if the owner isn’t going to be commanding the dog, they shouldn’t have the thing on them. OTOH, the training collars are FOR young dogs.

And the only reasons the dog’s neck would be irritated is if the collar was too tight, it was allergic to the material of the collar or the owner kept it turned up way too high with the electronic part where the hair is sparse (although, I have never seen one that would go up that high). The dog should be trained to the beep and the owner’s command, which wouldn’t irritate the skin.

So like I said, sounds like a owner who didn’t know what they were doing.

My apologies, I didn't realize there was a question.
This was not a fence collar.
The neck was irritated - and further, dog unstable - because of being repeatedly electrocuted.

 

[luvsJack]

My apologies, I didn't realize there was a question.
This was not a fence collar.
The neck was irritated - and further, dog unstable - because of being repeatedly electrocuted.

Yeah, they were doing it way wrong. Poor dog.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Yeah, they were doing it way wrong. Poor dog.

So there's a right way to electrocute a dog?

 

[JaxDad]

So there's a right way to electrocute a dog?

 

[goofyintoronto]

My dog lets me share the couch with him. Really though, he's family, why wouldnt I let him on the couch? I should say that we did change couches though. Ever since we got the new leather couch, my dog no longer comes on the couch anymore. Its quite sad because i want him to snuggle with me. He refuses to get up. I guess he thinks he wont fit as the other couch was way bigger than my new one.

 

[goofyintoronto]

My golden is allowed on the couch, the armchair, and the bed. We actually beg her to come up to snuggle with us and half the time, she's like no thanks...you guys are way clingy lol. People who come over know to expect to sit next to my dog.

OMG this is me too! I have a golden as well. And he's so well behaved, all on his own. He refuses to come up to my bed....I begged him to. He refuses. He wont sit on the couch either. lol.

 

[kirstenjk]

We have three pups (2 Beagles and 1 East German Shepherd) and all of them are allowed on the couch, chairs, beds, etc. They do have their own doggie beds as well. When we have company coming over we vacuum the furniture and use our carpet cleaner to clean the furniture periodically. Nothing is nicer than a warm pup snuggling you while they sleep and you're watching TV.

 

[BLAZEY]

We had an old quilt that was the dog quilt. If it was on the couch, the dogs could get on, If the quilt was folded on the floor, the dogs weren't allowed on the couch. I kept the couch cleaner and the hair contained.

 

[Hrhpd]

I think some of what's being discussed here is the difference between a stable, and an unstable, dog. From what I see around, there are a lot of unstable dogs out there now. I'm not sure people always even realize it OR know how to deal with it. In some cases, they even encourage it!

I had an encounter with someone like this recently. Two dogs, completely unstable, let off-leash at a dog park and immediately started attacking a young dog. Not only did the owner do nothing to stop it, she reinforced (rewarded) the behavior by patting them when they came back to her! I was stunned!! Furthermore, the owner of the dog who was attacked said it was "Ok". Wth?? Attacked dog, less than a year old, was cowering in the corner with its tail between its legs! Not ok!! That dog was clearly traumatized. (It happened several times.)

The trend seems to be people carrying dogs around with them or bringing them everywhere (I've seen quite a few in shopping carts in retail stores lately which were not service dogs) and treating them inappropriately, reinforcing bad behaviors (whether inadvertent or not) and letting their dogs run the show.

This is my opinion. I get where pp's are coming from when they're talking about how dogs see the world and that they elevate themselves when they're allowed on the sofa. But it's not the whole story. First, you need to have a stable dog, because an unstable dog can be dangerous in any circumstance - and you never know when it will happen. People also need to realize that when dogs are afraid they should NOT be patting them, they should just be leading the way to show the dog that there is nothing to be afraid OF. Act happy, encourage the dog to keep going, etc. But DON'T CODDLE. I know a dog who can't ride in the car because, as a puppy, he was coddled every time he showed fear when he got in the car, instead of just acting like all was ok. The lengths the family has to go to to get him to ride in the car is unbelievable. Do your dogs a favor and don't coddle them.

A stable dog who is INVITED on the sofa understands that if the person wants the dog off, the dog gets off, no problem. An unstable dog, otoh, may bite if you try to get them off the sofa. In fact, my last bite was from one of these unstable dogs. A friend had brought him over and he went up on my sofa. I non-chalantly went to take him off by the collar, which was a natural move for me (as he was NOT invited to go up on there), and he bit me. Turns out he was wearing a shock collar, and he had sensitivity of the neck. My hand was sore, but I felt so sorry for this dog. His people had made him unstable. He was less than a year old. Eventually he was euthanized. And I lost a friendship over it. Somewhere they had gotten very bad advice.

After owning many dogs, I will no longer own an unstable dog. I think people need to be careful about this. There is a big movement right now with dog rescue. Dogs come from some horrific circumstances, but also some circumstances where they may have been rewarded for bad behaviors in their previous lives, or a lot of other unknowns. Not only are they in peoples' homes, they're out among us. I don't like a lot of what I see, not only in how dogs are treated, but even how they're played with (rough, with bite encouragement). It's discouraging. Just as our world has changed in a lot of ways, so has dog ownership, as well. I'm not exactly sure how we got here. Dogs shouldn't be teased or encouraged to bite, EVER. Ideally you spend time with them to develop an actual relationship that is respectful (both ways) and fun. That takes time. A dog can be temperament tested and do well, but if it's not continued, problems can develop.

So yes, I agree with a pp that a dog on the sofa or bed is not the whole story. There are many ways that people show leadership with their dogs. The biggest one is just being there for ongoing interactions day to day where the owner directs the dog on how to act (and how not to act) until a mutually respectful bond develops and life is happy and predictable between you both (or all, if it's a family).

Good Owners, Great Dogs is a book that every dog owner should read.

A dog does not have to be unstable to be dominant.

Take my breed for instance. I have Caucasian Ovcharkas. They are extremely stable dogs but as Livestock Guardian Dogs have been bred for centuries to think for themselves and make their own decisions.

They are absolutely not a dog for a beginner and not recommended for typical pet owners as you have to keep reinforcing that your decisions always take precedence over their decisions. They are not bred to please people like your typical house dog so they require different training.

They are serious guardians but a well socialized, well trained dog is extremely stable and a kind of dog like no other.

Every breed and even every dog within each breed is different. You can never just assume that because the dog is acting one way in the present that you are not subtly reinforcing behaviors that will become a problem in a few years.

 

[luvsJack]

So there's a right way to electrocute a dog?

the collar doesn’t electrocute anyone.

It beeps and then it puts out just enough to get their attention. Not enough to hurt. And it goes lower than that. My dog’s collar (electric fence) is turned down so low that it only beeps. He hears the beep if he gets close to his boundary and he stops. It has never hurt him, I wouldn’t allow that. But it does keep him safely in the yard and not chasing deer or running to the road when we are not here. He can jump a fence and he hates being inside (well except right now when he is enjoying the ac).

Ds’s dog’s collar is the same. It beeps. He used the training collar for a bit and same thing.

You CAN turn it way up but if used correctly there is no reason to. You don’t want them to be in fear. Hence the reason I said they aren’t using it correctly if the dog had an irritation on his neck. Draco has had his in for a couple of years and there isn’t so much as redness on his neck.

 

[Sherrilatte]

Pets are family, but I never let them on the furniture or counters.

I could not agree MORE!

 

[disykat]

We've always had small, non-shedding dogs due to my allergies. They are allowed on the furniture once they earn whole house privileges. Our current dog likes to sleep on the top edge of the sofa to see out the window. Our only issue is remembering to punch her "indent" out of the couch cushion on occasion because it's starting to cause a permanent dent. We consider it worth it for her to have a place she can look out the window. If we cared, we'd simply train her not to when we were there and move the couch away from the window so it wasn't so tempting when we weren't. (We crate train, but don't crate that often after they've earned whole house privileges.)

Because she was originally not on the furniture, she generally only goes on if invited or there is a really tempting purpose - like looking out the window.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

the collar doesn’t electrocute anyone.

It beeps and then it puts out just enough to get their attention. Not enough to hurt. And it goes lower than that. My dog’s collar (electric fence) is turned down so low that it only beeps. He hears the beep if he gets close to his boundary and he stops. It has never hurt him, I wouldn’t allow that. But it does keep him safely in the yard and not chasing deer or running to the road when we are not here. He can jump a fence and he hates being inside (well except right now when he is enjoying the ac).

Ds’s dog’s collar is the same. It beeps. He used the training collar for a bit and same thing.

You CAN turn it way up but if used correctly there is no reason to. You don’t want them to be in fear. Hence the reason I said they aren’t using it correctly if the dog had an irritation on his neck. Draco has had his in for a couple of years and there isn’t so much as redness on his neck.

Not everyone uses it "correctly". I know people who turn it up when the dog "does't listen" - once so badly that the dog went limp and urinated on himself. Again, I am NOT objecting to electric fence collars.

 

[`OhanaHare]

I vote yes. My dog is allowed on couch and snuggling with him on said couch is one of my favorite things in life.

Guests are just that "guests"; the dog is family. I will always vote for the dogs rights who live in the house over guests. If said guests don't like it then they don't have to come over.

 

[luvsJack]

w

Not everyone uses it "correctly". I know people who turn it up when the dog "does't listen" - once so badly that the dog went limp and urinated on himself. Again, I am NOT objecting to electric fence collars.

That is horrible! I haven’t used the training collar but know several people that have and with great success. None of them turn it up like that!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

w


That is horrible! I haven’t used the training collar but know several people that have and with great success. None of them turn it up like that!

What kind of great success? And at what cost?

What does a shock collar do that training without one can't?

 

[luvsJack]

What kind of great success? And at what cost?

What does a shock collar do that training without one can't?

For DS, his pit is a bit hard headed. He needed her to not run after other animals. He lived in town at the time and with that type of dog, you have to know they will not run off or chase anything and he needed her to learn quickly as he had to go back to work. With the collar he was able to train her to stop on command very quickly. He never had it up enough to hurt the dog. If she started to dart, he would command her to stop. If she didn’t, he would hit the button to beep and tell her again—this was all done with her leash on. The third time, he would again give the command and then hit the other button. The “shock” was a vibration that startled her. It wasn’t enough to call it a shock much less “electrocution”. It took him just a couple of days and she would stop on command. After he felt sure she would follow his command, he kept it on her so that whoever came and watched the dog while he was offshore would have it if they needed it.

Dd has a German Shepherd that loves to jump when she gets excited. They have been trying to train it out of her since she was a puppy. Nothing worked. They got a collar. They used the same basic technique as DS. She doesn’t jump on people anymore. They say “down” one time and she stops and sits. Before they could say it till they were hoarse and she would not stop. She would sit on command, get down from the furniture on command, and just about anything else. But when she was excited about someone coming in to visit, she would not stop jumping. She can jump over my head so it was a problem.

Neither of these dogs even wear the training collars anymore. It’s not something you have to do forever. And it’s not something you continue to use if it’s not working. If someone has to turn it up high and keep hitting the button because “they don’t listen”, it’s not working for that dog. Just like anything else, it won’t work on ever dog.

Ds has a friend that has a mastiff. It wouldn’t work on that dog. But he has other friends with pits and they have used the collars with the same success he had. With a pit that may chase, you have got to know with no doubt that they will stop on command. I am not saying some other techniques would not have done the same thing for DS, but this worked and it worked well.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

For DS, his pit is a bit hard headed. He needed her to not run after other animals. He lived in town at the time and with that type of dog, you have to know they will not run off or chase anything and he needed her to learn quickly as he had to go back to work. With the collar he was able to train her to stop on command very quickly. He never had it up enough to hurt the dog. If she started to dart, he would command her to stop. If she didn’t, he would hit the button to beep and tell her again—this was all done with her leash on. The third time, he would again give the command and then hit the other button. The “shock” was a vibration that startled her. It wasn’t enough to call it a shock much less “electrocution”. It took him just a couple of days and she would stop on command. After he felt sure she would follow his command, he kept it on her so that whoever came and watched the dog while he was offshore would have it if they needed it.

Dd has a German Shepherd that loves to jump when she gets excited. They have been trying to train it out of her since she was a puppy. Nothing worked. They got a collar. They used the same basic technique as DS. She doesn’t jump on people anymore. They say “down” one time and she stops and sits. Before they could say it till they were hoarse and she would not stop. She would sit on command, get down from the furniture on command, and just about anything else. But when she was excited about someone coming in to visit, she would not stop jumping. She can jump over my head so it was a problem.

Neither of these dogs even wear the training collars anymore. It’s not something you have to do forever. And it’s not something you continue to use if it’s not working. If someone has to turn it up high and keep hitting the button because “they don’t listen”, it’s not working for that dog. Just like anything else, it won’t work on ever dog.

Ds has a friend that has a mastiff. It wouldn’t work on that dog. But he has other friends with pits and they have used the collars with the same success he had. With a pit that may chase, you have got to know with no doubt that they will stop on command. I am not saying some other techniques would not have done the same thing for DS, but this worked and it worked well.

Ah, so the German Shepherd got one, too. Isn't he or she just a year or two old, also?

There are so many things that go into further discussion about this, but this really isn't the thread for it, nor do I have the time or energy to go into it more.

But what people really need to do is to look at WHY does a jumping habit occur in the first place. Was the dog encouraged to jump up - these are the things I was earlier talking about in inadvertently reinforcing bad habits. People think it's cute, and it certainly is with an adorable puppy, but as the dog ages it can become a problem and difficult to deal with. But it certainly can be stopped without an electronic collar.

Same with running away. There are ways to teach a dog recall successfully without a collar. Some of it starts when the dog is young or you first obtain the dog with training. I got my terrier to learn it when a lot of people said it wasn't possible. I saw that you said your son needed to do it quickly because he was going offshore. Maybe that just wasn't a good time to get a dog. Point being, there are a lot of other things that need to be looked at before deciding to use a collar for training.

Many brutal training methods continue because, well, they work. That doesn't necessarily mean they're either humane or the best way. I just did a little search for what professional trainers think about them, and the comment that stood out at me the most was that they should only be used to keep a dog safe, never to hurt it or make it submit. I believe that what happens in the dog's brain to submit under these circumstances is not the same thing that happens in their brains to get them to do it willingly via humane training. YMMV

 

[orangecuse]

Our dogs are allowed on the furniture as long as they behave. No damaging or playing on the furniture and they have to get off if we say so or not get on if we say no. One big couch is leather and the other has completely removable and washable seat and back covers so that helps for keeping things less furry and clear.