DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey

[Sandisw]

Yes, per our contracts, we all know the language, especially after reading this board! But if the booking window is indeed altered to our detriment, and their response is “check the language in your contract, all you’re really entitled to is one month, sorry pal,” they‘re going to have thousands and thousands of potentially angry owners on their hands, to whom DVD would want to sell in the future. I don’t think they would want to alienate them.

This isn’t like suspending annual pass sales. Its about the core of the entire system, and the reason many bought. If they proceed, and who knows if they will, they’re going to have to do it really carefully, and figure out a way so this won’t happen.

Which is where we differ. To me, getting the 4 months is a bonus and while I don’t see them changing it for the sake of changing it, don’t think anyone should be upset if they did.

But, I would not be surprised to see changes moving forward with new resorts that end up in a trust like set up and that trading via BvTC is going to end up much different down the line, especially as 2042 gets closer

 

[J-Dog]

But if the booking window is indeed altered to our detriment, and their response is “check the language in your contract, all you’re really entitled to is one month, sorry pal,” they‘re going to have thousands and thousands of potentially angry owners on their hands, to whom DVD would want to sell in the future. I don’t think they would want to alienate them.

Yes. This.

Which is where we differ. To me, getting the 4 months is a bonus and while I don’t see them changing it for the sake of changing it, don’t think anyone should be upset if they did.

But how is that any different than all the changes that WDW has recently made? They added park reservations, they took away morning park hopping, etc, and basically said "well, we know people hate these things, but we're doing them anyway". Until finally the backlash got to the point of them reversing those things.

I agree with Paul that DVD does (or should, at least) care somewhat about their current clientele that they wouldn't purposely try to screw us over just because the contract says that they can.

 

[tidefan]

Yes. This.

But how is that any different than all the changes that WDW has recently made? They added park reservations, they took away morning park hopping, etc, and basically said "well, we know people hate these things, but we're doing them anyway". Until finally the backlash got to the point of them reversing those things.

I agree with Paul that DVD does (or should, at least) care somewhat about their current clientele that they wouldn't purposely try to screw us over just because the contract says that they can.

Well, they did it to VGF1 owners, so not sure they care what current owners think...

 

[Sandisw]

Yes. This.

But how is that any different than all the changes that WDW has recently made? They added park reservations, they took away morning park hopping, etc, and basically said "well, we know people hate these things, but we're doing them anyway". Until finally the backlash got to the point of them reversing those things.

I agree with Paul that DVD does (or should, at least) care somewhat about their current clientele that they wouldn't purposely try to screw us over just because the contract says that they can.

Because park decisions are not something that people buy into like we do DVC.

Again, I don’t see them doing it for current resorts right now but personally I would not be upset or angry with them if they did it. I also don’t see it as screwing people over if they change it, unless it was done with no notice.

If I knew going it what I am entitled to and am okay with that, then I personally don’t get bothered.

Just like restrictions. People hate them and won’t buy with them. We did because we are indifferent to them.

If Poly tower goes into PVB, they certainly don’t care about all the new direct buyers since 2019 who were told that new properties would be restricted. And we can get into semantics if it’s new or old because it’s at the same property, the point is it’s a brand new build that appears to be exempt at this point.

And I do not believe reservations went away for parks due to backlash. They went away because WDPR decided it made sense to do so. Lots of complaints about GP+ and that is stil there.

 

[J-Dog]

Just like restrictions. People hate them and won’t buy with them. We did because we are indifferent to them.

IMO, restrictions are not even close to the same thing. Restrictions are there when you buy. You either agree to it at the time, or you don't and you don't buy. Taking away 3 months' worth of home resort advantage after-the-fact, just because they can, is totally different.

And also IMO, park reservations absolutely were part of Igers' plans to reverse some of Chapek's unpopular changes, in order to placate visitors and attempt to quell some of the stigma that Disney is too complicated for the average customer.

 

[J-Dog]

Well, they did it to VGF1 owners, so not sure they care what current owners think...

I guess I agree with you to some extent, although that may just have been an unforeseen/indirect consequence, rather than a direct "stick it to ya because we don't care"-type move.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Which is where we differ. To me, getting the 4 months is a bonus and while I don’t see them changing it for the sake of changing it, don’t think anyone should be upset if they did.

But, I would not be surprised to see changes moving forward with new resorts that end up in a trust like set up and that trading via BvTC is going to end up much different down the line, especially as 2042 gets closer

Not impossible re new resorts, but I just don’t think they would undermine the existing booking conditions for current owners at current resorts. Not that this is a perfect example, but when they changed the points necessary to qualify for a blue card, they did grandfather in existing members who qualified with far less.

That said, I always book right at 11 months, so for us the change wouldn’t be the end of the world, but it would force more members into long range planning that they probably wouldn’t appreciate.

 

[Sandisw]

Not impossible re new resorts, but I just don’t think they would undermine the existing booking conditions for current owners at current resorts. Not that this is a perfect example, but when they changed the points necessary to qualify for a blue card, they did grandfather in existing members who qualified with far less.

That said, I always book right at 11 months, so for us the change wouldn’t be the end of the world, but it would force more members into long range planning that they probably wouldn’t appreciate.

The home resort rules can’t be different for different owners at the same resort. FL law doesn’t allow that. Nothing like what they are allowed to do with incidental benefits which is what the membership extras program is.

So, we all must get the same one if we own the same resort no matter how we purchase.

The trust aspect is what could give DVD the ability to enhance things with new resorts by giving the one month but then access to all trust properties sooner than 7 months. And, to me, the survery they sent out supports it is at least on their radar.

So, that is where I see a potential change. I also think we will see it a few years before the 2042 expiration where they increase home resort for those owners so they have more options to stay at home resort those last 5 years.

 

[Sandisw]

IMO, restrictions are not even close to the same thing. Restrictions are there when you buy. You either agree to it at the time, or you don't and you don't buy. Taking away 3 months' worth of home resort advantage after-the-fact, just because they can, is totally different.

And also IMO, park reservations absolutely were part of Igers' plans to reverse some of Chapek's unpopular changes, in order to placate visitors and attempt to quell some of the stigma that Disney is too complicated for the average customer.

The point is both are part of the contract and you know they can come and go.

I can’t be upset if DVD adjusts the product based on what I bought.

If the message has been that all future resorts would be restricted then for the past two years, then putting Poly tower into PVB is going against what many of those buyers believed.

It’s the same thing..it says they can come and go and no one should have bought expecting all things to be restricted just like no one should be upset if they adjust booking windows.

As I said, I don’t think we will see it for no reason but what we may think is a lousy reason, DVD could see as an enhancement.

With this trust? Yes, I think we could see changes down the line to how and what DVC is moving forward, even if they don’t do something surprising with Poly tower…which I still think that’s a possibility.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Well, they did it to VGF1 owners, so not sure they care what current owners think...

Exactly. DVD has been degrading our current membership for years. Still have not totally eliminated the park pass system. Annual pass changes. Resale restrictions. Constantly changing minimum points required for membership benefits. Degrading the Dining Plan. Vanilla resort refurbishment. I’m sure I have nit covered it all. So this Trust implementation is all about THEM and dollars. It has nothing to do with US. We don’t matter in their decision making or future plans.

 

[Sandisw]

Exactly. DVD has been degrading our current membership for years. Still have not totally eliminated the park pass system. Annual pass changes. Resale restrictions. Constantly changing minimum points required for membership benefits. Degrading the Dining Plan. Vanilla resort refurbishment. I’m sure I have nit covered it all. So this Trust implementation is all about THEM and dollars. It has nothing to do with US. We don’t matter in their decision making or future plans.

To be fair, many of the things you listed have nothing to do with DVC or DVD. The only thing are the resale restrictions and membership extras.

And, as a business, honestly, those changes make sense as it is to get people buy directly from them. I just think they are shifting gears with the product and while many of us know of the "good old days" those new are buying with restrictions and 150 minimum for extras in place....

I think what we have seen with sales over the past few years is that having multiple choices for buyers has been a win for DVD...highest sales for 2023 since 2011?...and maybe this trust idea came to fruition because of that?

Giving people a chance to buy into a specific resort, but at the same time, give them access to others sooner than before, may be a big plus. Think about CFW...lets say you want that as your home resort but you know you want to be able to access some others as well...now the potenital exists to buy that, get your home resort advantage, but maybe get access to other resort property sooner than those who don't have an ownership interest in a trust use plan?

It is why I am still having a hard time believing that Poly tower is going to just go the way of PVB...and be sold as usual without restrictions....I know, I know...but I just won't believe it until I see it filed that way.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

To be fair, many of the things you listed have nothing to do with DVC or DVD. The only thing are the resale restrictions and membership extras.

And, as a business, honestly, those changes make sense as it is to get people buy directly from them. I just think they are shifting gears with the product and while many of us know of the "good old days" those new are buying with restrictions and 150 minimum for extras in place....

I think what we have seen with sales over the past few years is that having multiple choices for buyers has been a win for DVD...highest sales for 2023 since 2011?...and maybe this trust idea came to fruition because of that?

Giving people a chance to buy into a specific resort, but at the same time, give them access to others sooner than before, may be a big plus. Think about CFW...lets say you want that as your home resort but you know you want to be able to access some others as well...now the potenital exists to buy that, get your home resort advantage, but maybe get access to other resort property sooner than those who don't have an ownership interest in a trust use plan?

It is why I am still having a hard time believing that Poly tower is going to just go the way of PVB...and be sold as usual without restrictions....I know, I know...but I just won't believe it until I see it filed that way.

I also did not mention ever increasing the points charts with each new resort. DVC members received discounts on a few of the things I mentioned, but have slowly eroded those discounts. Disney Vacation Club model is eroding before our eyes. The Trust concept will will bring a finality to it.

Agree, I just don’t see PVB 2 just joining the current association as is. That would be leaving a ton of money on the table. It will be years before another new stand alone resort is built. They will capitalize on this new one. Don’t be surprised with sticker shock, points charts shock, and Trust shock.

 

[Paul Stupin]

I also did not mention ever increasing the points charts with each new resort. DVC members received discounts on a few of the things I mentioned, but have slowly eroded those discounts. Disney Vacation Club model is eroding before our eyes. The Trust concept will will bring a finality to it.

Agree, I just don’t see PVB 2 just joining the current association as is. That would be leaving a ton of money on the table. It will be years before another new stand alone resort is built. They will capitalize on this new one. Don’t be surprised with sticker shock, points charts shock, and Trust shock.

So you think that DVC deliberately mislead everyone at the December meeting when announcing it would be part of the same association?

 

[BWV Dreamin]

So you think that DVC deliberately mislead everyone at the December meeting when announcing it would be part of the same association?

I would not use the word deliberate. The comment reminded me more of a blunder then a deception

 

[Paul Stupin]

I would not use the word deliberate. The comment reminded me more of a blunder then a deception

Rather than calling the statement either a blunder or a deception, how bout let’s just call it accurate? Why not actually take the words at face value and assume that the DVC spokeswoman is fairly competent? This strikes me as far more likely than creating a new narrative out of thin air, taking a fairly straightforward statement and desperately trying to completely reverse its meaning because, for some reason, you just can’t accept it.

Though I wish it was a separate association, I can see that keeping Poly2 in the same association, without resale restrictions, makes it an easy sell and a slam dunk. With VDH sales a bit wobbly, I don’t think this is the project they’d choose to introduce an entirely new, and potentially controversial systemic change.

If Poly2 were an entirely original, creatively themed, immersive, incredible resort, DVD might get away with such a big change. But it isn’t! It’s one prefab building with a small footprint and what looks like a somewhat unimpressive pool and splash pad, and some no doubt comparatively small one bedrooms. It’s probably a better fit with Poly1 anyway.

 

[Sandisw]

Rather than calling the statement either a blunder or a deception, how bout let’s just call it accurate? Why not actually take the words at face value and assume that the DVC spokeswoman is fairly competent? This strikes me as far more likely than creating a new narrative out of thin air, taking a fairly straightforward statement and desperately trying to completely reverse its meaning because, for some reason, you just can’t accept it.

Though I wish it was a separate association, I can see that keeping Poly2 in the same association, without resale restrictions, makes it an easy sell and a slam dunk. With VDH sales a bit wobbly, I don’t think this is the project they’d choose to introduce an entirely new, and potentially controversial systemic change.

If Poly2 were an entirely original, creatively themed, immersive, incredible resort, DVD might get away with such a big change. But it isn’t! It’s one prefab building with a small footprint and what looks like a somewhat unimpressive pool and splash pad, and some no doubt comparatively small one bedrooms. It’s probably a better fit with Poly1 anyway.

Rather than calling the statement either a blunder or a deception, how bout let’s just call it accurate? Why not actually take the words at face value and assume that the DVC spokeswoman is fairly competent? This strikes me as far more likely than creating a new narrative out of thin air, taking a fairly straightforward statement and desperately trying to completely reverse its meaning because, for some reason, you just can’t accept it.

Though I wish it was a separate association, I can see that keeping Poly2 in the same association, without resale restrictions, makes it an easy sell and a slam dunk. With VDH sales a bit wobbly, I don’t think this is the project they’d choose to introduce an entirely new, and potentially controversial systemic change.

If Poly2 were an entirely original, creatively themed, immersive, incredible resort, DVD might get away with such a big change. But it isn’t! It’s one prefab building with a small footprint and what looks like a somewhat unimpressive pool and splash pad, and some no doubt comparatively small one bedrooms. It’s probably a better fit with Poly1 anyway.

Well they certainly aren’t standing behind it when asked.

So, until it official…as in documents offical..I think there is still a chance for it to change.

If they were officially confirming, then no need to refuse to acknowledge. And, as of yesterday my guide is still saying nothing offical.

Could end up part of Poly but the way they are handling this vis how they were with BPK is definitely different. And at this point, can’t figure out how they could announce so confidently that BPK would be part of VGF but can’t with Poly tower.

 

[KimMcGowan]

Rather than calling the statement either a blunder or a deception, how bout let’s just call it accurate? Why not actually take the words at face value and assume that the DVC spokeswoman is fairly competent? This strikes me as far more likely than creating a new narrative out of thin air, taking a fairly straightforward statement and desperately trying to completely reverse its meaning because, for some reason, you just can’t accept it.

Though I wish it was a separate association, I can see that keeping Poly2 in the same association, without resale restrictions, makes it an easy sell and a slam dunk. With VDH sales a bit wobbly, I don’t think this is the project they’d choose to introduce an entirely new, and potentially controversial systemic change.

If Poly2 were an entirely original, creatively themed, immersive, incredible resort, DVD might get away with such a big change. But it isn’t! It’s one prefab building with a small footprint and what looks like a somewhat unimpressive pool and splash pad, and some no doubt comparatively small one bedrooms. It’s probably a better fit with Poly1 anyway.

I don’t always agree with your view of the Polynesian (which is perfectly ok) - I love the resort. But on this i agree with you 100%. A long time ago, I jokingly said there were some people that would not believe it if Disney came out and said it is part of Poly 1. Without meaning to I proved to be right.
This is a question that they knew was coming. They were prepared for it. She gave her answer, it wasn’t a blunder. For some reason they are hesitant now. Who knows, maybe they do change plans - but I tend to think the people who are holding out hope for Poly 2 to be its own association are going to be disappointed.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t always agree with your view of the Polynesian (which is perfectly ok) - I love the resort. But on this i agree with you 100%. A long time ago, I jokingly said there were some people that would not believe it if Disney came out and said it is part of Poly 1. Without meaning to I proved to be right.
This is a question that they knew was coming. They were prepared for it. She gave her answer, it wasn’t a blunder. For some reason they are hesitant now. Who knows, maybe they do change plans - but I tend to think the people who are holding out hope for Poly 2 to be its own association are going to be disappointed.

Actually, I’d say they did not prepare to announce or they would have had the slide. They certainly did for CFW so why not Poly tower? IIRC, they had it on a slide at the 2022 meeting?

And, as one who is hesitant to believe it’s a done deal, not because I really care but just find the optics of what DVD is doing to be quite odd and refusing to stand by it.

Obviously, one camp was going to be right but this trust thing is as something no one predicted.

While it would be silly to do, I believe there is a way that it could be part of PVB and still be sold differently via the trust, which could be be up with a whole bunch of surprises.

I guess we will know exaclty what will happen in the next few months when they declare the project officially.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Well they certainly aren’t standing behind it when asked.

So, until it official…as in documents offical..I think there is still a chance for it to change.

If they were officially confirming, then no need to refuse to acknowledge. And, as of yesterday my guide is still saying nothing offical.

Could end up part of Poly but the way they are handling this vis how they were with BPK is definitely different. And at this point, can’t figure out how they could announce so confidently that BPK would be part of VGF but can’t with Poly tower.

I don’t think they need to clarify further to individual members what they’ve already announced. Not sure if that’s even their policy anyway.

But, as we all know, time will tell!

 

[BeachClub2014]

I don’t think they need to clarify further to individual members what they’ve already announced. Not sure if that’s even their policy anyway.

But, as we all know, time will tell!

Did DVC make an announcement, or are you referring to the vague comment of Yvonne Chang that's been reported as somehow confirming that the Poly Tower will definitely become part of the existing PVB association? If that's what you're referring to, then I think there is much room for continued speculation given that's not even the words she used, as has been discussed and debated.

Doesn't it seem odd to make an official announcement at the tail end of the Q&A portion of the Association meeting that can't now be verified, clarified, or even found in ANY DVC information?

I'll believe it when DVC actually says ANYTHING about the Tower in writing.