DVC Rental Cancellation/Insurance - Need Help!

[crisi]

I would never advise anyone to count on even a flexible owner to bail them out when things happen that prevent taking the trip as planned. If one cannot afford to lose their money should that happen, they need to protect themselves by purchasing travel insurance or forego renting.

In many ways, for a not well informed renter - especially with a newer less experienced owner - the promise of "I'll try to do something" is worse than the knowledge that it is "absolutely not changeable or non-refundable and you should get travel insurance." We know how difficult it can be to work with availability, expiring points, banking rules, point budgets (if I use those ten more points, I won't have them for the trip I want to take), etc. But many renters don't realize that moving that VGF studio reservation by a week four months out is highly unlikely, or that I can't move your reservation by four months because that crosses my use year, and newer owners aren't likely to understand the complexities of point expiration and banking and borrowing to be able to set realistic expectations. When they don't understand the probabilities around rebooking, they may take risks they shouldn't.

 

[DenLo]

Travel insurance won’t cover pre-existing conditions. That’s a non-starter.

Not true, I buy Travelguard as it covers pre-existing conditions.

 

[DVC Doctor]

The irony is some people are posting incredible extreme examples of a DVC owner that is so busy and stressed out that they can't take a few minutes to try to make a modification to a reservation (even though they had plenty of time to make the initial reservation and will gladly have time to arrange Magical Express or Disney Dining Plan in the future) and are completely forgetting how and why this thread was posted.

Someone rented points from Davids company at least 7 or more months in advance and then found out they cant make the trip due his wife being pregnant. What I was hoping was to hear was a friendly response like, "I will give DVC a call and see if anything can be done to change your reservation dates or I can change the names of the reservation if you can find someone to take it over....BUT please know that there are no refunds"

What has happened is there are two groups of DISboard members - one group that is at least "willing" to try to assist their customer in making a change or modification of the reservation and another group that 100% absolutely will not expend any time or effort to help their customer and then HIDE behind their contract or policy that no changes to reservations are allowed.

I guess we will have to agree that we disagree on this issue.

I am just having a hard time believing that David can advertise a 100% sanctification with a rigid "no changes allowed" policy as he does thousands of rentals and there has to be a few people per year that really do need to make a change of plans and did not buy insurance (I also have a hard time believing insurance works as well as everyone thinks). I personally think there may be some un-advertised policy that he may use when this "RARE" situation occurs. But unless he posts here, I guess we will never know.

For the record, I really do like Davids DVC rental and think he offers a great service to everyone, I was just surprised with this thread on how rigid some people can be when it comes to assisting someone that rents points form them and how unwilling people can be to help someone in a time of need, but they are very willing to take their money.

I also believe that many people that rent points really DO NOT pay too much attention to the cancellation policy and as I stated before, changes may be rare, but at least there should be some attempt to help out rather than say "he sucker, you signed a non-cancellation contract and now that I have your money, you can go pound sand"

 

[Bing Showei]

What has happened is there are two groups of DISboard members - one group that is at least "willing" to try to assist their customer in making a change or modification of the reservation and another group that 100% absolutely will not expend any time or effort to help their customer and then HIDE behind their contract or policy that no changes to reservations are allowed.

While I may be in the former group, I'm not going to foist my leniency or expectations on the latter group especially when they have a contract that clearly states what the expectations are for a business transaction. No one is hiding behind anything.

 

[crisi]

The irony is some people are posting incredible extreme examples of a DVC owner that is so busy and stressed out that they can't take a few minutes to try to make a modification to a reservation (even though they had plenty of time to make the initial reservation and will gladly have time to arrange Magical Express or Disney Dining Plan in the future) and are completely forgetting how and why this thread was posted.

Someone rented points from Davids company at least 7 or more months in advance and then found out they cant make the trip due his wife being pregnant. What I was hoping was to hear was a friendly response like, "I will give DVC a call and see if anything can be done to change your reservation dates or I can change the names of the reservation if you can find someone to take it over....BUT please know that there are no refunds"

What has happened is there are two groups of DISboard members - one group that is at least "willing" to try to assist their customer in making a change or modification of the reservation and another group that 100% absolutely will not expend any time or effort to help their customer and then HIDE behind their contract or policy that no changes to reservations are allowed.

I guess we will have to agree that we disagree on this issue.

I am just having a hard time believing that David can advertise a 100% sanctification with a rigid "no changes allowed" policy as he does thousands of rentals and there has to be a few people per year that really do need to make a change of plans and did not buy insurance (I also have a hard time believing insurance works as well as everyone thinks). I personally think there may be some un-advertised policy that he may use when this "RARE" situation occurs. But unless he posts here, I guess we will never know.

For the record, I really do like Davids DVC rental and think he offers a great service to everyone, I was just surprised with this thread on how rigid some people can be when it comes to assisting someone that rents points form them and how unwilling people can be to help someone in a time of need, but they are very willing to take their money.

I also believe that many people that rent points really DO NOT pay too much attention to the cancellation policy and as I stated before, changes may be rare, but at least there should be some attempt to help out rather than say "he sucker, you signed a non-cancellation contract and now that I have your money, you can go pound sand"

Your "incredible extremes" was my life for about fourteen months - longer if you date it from my sister's diagnosis and through my son's high school graduation. I don't know if you know what is involved in making reservations through Davids, but the commitment is minimal and can be done on my terms at the time I choose. I am seriously surprised that you are so willing to commit other people to something, and then condemn them when they choose to behave differently. I fail to see what dog you have in this race. If you want to work with renters in finding something else, there is nothing stopping you. But please do not set the expectation for renters that is universal for all owners to do - it is not something everyone does. Or that the owner they choose is somehow mean for not making the attempt.

I sincerely hope you are never stretched so thin that you can understand that period of time for me and you can therefore continue to live believing this is always something minor.

 

[Dean]

The irony is some people are posting incredible extreme examples of a DVC owner that is so busy and stressed out that they can't take a few minutes to try to make a modification to a reservation (even though they had plenty of time to make the initial reservation and will gladly have time to arrange Magical Express or Disney Dining Plan in the future) and are completely forgetting how and why this thread was posted.

Someone rented points from Davids company at least 7 or more months in advance and then found out they cant make the trip due his wife being pregnant. What I was hoping was to hear was a friendly response like, "I will give DVC a call and see if anything can be done to change your reservation dates or I can change the names of the reservation if you can find someone to take it over....BUT please know that there are no refunds"

What has happened is there are two groups of DISboard members - one group that is at least "willing" to try to assist their customer in making a change or modification of the reservation and another group that 100% absolutely will not expend any time or effort to help their customer and then HIDE behind their contract or policy that no changes to reservations are allowed.

I guess we will have to agree that we disagree on this issue.

I am just having a hard time believing that David can advertise a 100% sanctification with a rigid "no changes allowed" policy as he does thousands of rentals and there has to be a few people per year that really do need to make a change of plans and did not buy insurance (I also have a hard time believing insurance works as well as everyone thinks). I personally think there may be some un-advertised policy that he may use when this "RARE" situation occurs. But unless he posts here, I guess we will never know.

For the record, I really do like Davids DVC rental and think he offers a great service to everyone, I was just surprised with this thread on how rigid some people can be when it comes to assisting someone that rents points form them and how unwilling people can be to help someone in a time of need, but they are very willing to take their money.

I also believe that many people that rent points really DO NOT pay too much attention to the cancellation policy and as I stated before, changes may be rare, but at least there should be some attempt to help out rather than say "he sucker, you signed a non-cancellation contract and now that I have your money, you can go pound sand"

I'm somewhere in between your 2 extremes though a little closer to the more rigid side. I find it interesting that someone is so insistent on other people violating their own contract and berating others for not believe that's reasonable. A company can make exceptions if it's their own money but to expect them to make exceptions outside the stated contract is unreasonable IMO. No good deed goes unpunished, esp in the internet age.

 

[Madame]

What has happened is there are two groups of DISboard members - one group that is at least "willing" to try to assist their customer in making a change or modification of the reservation and another group that 100% absolutely will not expend any time or effort to help their customer and then HIDE behind their contract or policy that no changes to reservations are allowed.

If you are renting your points to someone directly, then yes that someone is your customer. I rent via David because I don’t want « customers ». They’re David’s customers as am I.

Quite honestly you should ask David why his policy is what it is & how he would handle these situations. All you are getting here is the points of view of some of David’s other customers.

If I rent through David I will never speak to the renter, see the renter, negotiate with the renter because, well, they’re not *my* customer

 

[DVC Doctor]

If I rent through David I will never speak to the renter, see the renter, negotiate with the renter because, well, they’re not *my* customer

I totally understand that and respect your viewpoint.

Truth be told - I really don't care what Davids policy is or is not as I don't rent from him or let him rent my points. I only got involved with this thread as I really felt bad for the renter who had to cancel a reservation and possibly lost all his money. Sure he had a contract and it was his fault for not buying rental insurance. Or better yet it is his fault for using David to rent points as if he booked with Disney he would get a refund for a cancellation or if he rented from someone that was a little more "flexible" perhaps this thread would have never been created.

Davids rental service has a super high visibility in the rental market and if dozens of people per year lose 100% of their money as a result of NOT being able to make changes, I would assume you would hear more about it and there would be tons of complaints online. So, it stands to reason that he may or may not have some unpublished option for people in a jam that needs to make a change in their reservation. However, in the event that no changes are made ever, then if all parties signed off on that contract, well they all got what they bargained for.

I honestly feel empathy for someone that used Davids DVC rental service and had to make a change in their reservation and faced the possibility of losing all their money as no changes are allowed, even though we all know that a change is possible, the fact remains that his advertised policy (and the opinion of many here) are very rigid that no changes ever are acceptable, no matter how far in advance or reasonable that request may be.

I guess if David ever posted here, he could enlighten us on how many times a request for a change may happen and how he deals with the request and the potential fallout if the owner of the points (or David himself) refuses to help.

Also, I never suggested that any owner of points should take the loss or spend hours upon hours to fix the problem, I only thought that a simple phone call to Disney to see if a request for a change could be done was a reasonable thing to do, especially after someone just spend several hundreds or several thousands on renting your points.

If you are someone that totally disagrees with me and thinks a contract is a contract and tells their renters with reservation request changes "hasta la vista, baby" - that is fine with me too, I just think you are not having a magical day and definitely not spreading the pixie dust around.In every Disney story there are Heros and Villains and this tread pretty much clarifies who is who.

To anyone thinking of renting DVC points - Caveat Emptor, baby

 

[Dean]

I totally understand that and respect your viewpoint.

Truth be told - I really don't care what Davids policy is or is not as I don't rent from him or let him rent my points. I only got involved with this thread as I really felt bad for the renter who had to cancel a reservation and possibly lost all his money. Sure he had a contract and it was his fault for not buying rental insurance. Or better yet it is his fault for using David to rent points as if he booked with Disney he would get a refund for a cancellation or if he rented from someone that was a little more "flexible" perhaps this thread would have never been created.

Davids rental service has a super high visibility in the rental market and if dozens of people per year lose 100% of their money as a result of NOT being able to make changes, I would assume you would hear more about it and there would be tons of complaints online. So, it stands to reason that he may or may not have some unpublished option for people in a jam that needs to make a change in their reservation. However, in the event that no changes are made ever, then if all parties signed off on that contract, well they all got what they bargained for.

I honestly feel empathy for someone that used Davids DVC rental service and had to make a change in their reservation and faced the possibility of losing all their money as no changes are allowed, even though we all know that a change is possible, the fact remains that his advertised policy (and the opinion of many here) are very rigid that no changes ever are acceptable, no matter how far in advance or reasonable that request may be.

I guess if David ever posted here, he could enlighten us on how many times a request for a change may happen and how he deals with the request and the potential fallout if the owner of the points (or David himself) refuses to help.

Also, I never suggested that any owner of points should take the loss or spend hours upon hours to fix the problem, I only thought that a simple phone call to Disney to see if a request for a change could be done was a reasonable thing to do, especially after someone just spend several hundreds or several thousands on renting your points.

If you are someone that totally disagrees with me and thinks a contract is a contract and tells their renters with reservation request changes "hasta la vista, baby" - that is fine with me too, I just think you are not having a magical day and definitely not spreading the pixie dust around.In every Disney story there are Heros and Villains and this tread pretty much clarifies who is who.

To anyone thinking of renting DVC points - Caveat Emptor, baby

We all feel sad for someone when life happens. Whether it's a flight gets canceled and they miss their cruise, a medical issue or weather type issues it's an emotional experience for those affected and those who hear about it indirectly. We've seen lots of reports over the years. In the large scheme of things, this is not high on the list of tragedies with a major joyous component of the first child. This is not the first report of refusal of changes from David's. Reading the OP it seems they knew about and declined the trip insurance and they knew it was not cancellable/changeable.

It would be up to David if he wanted to make an exception but if the contract specifically states the are no changes, he should not IMO. If he did for one situation and didn't for another, it would be a much larger problem IMO. I know you think that makes me uncaring and cold but that's far from the truth. Frankly, I'm quite offended that someone would label such as a villain, esp since I feel much of what's wrong with this country is the situational ethics philosophy. It's like gambling, losing then expecting your money back.

 

[Bing Showei]

This started out so well, with so much promise of a breakthrough of real understanding another’s perspective, and then...

In every Disney story there are Heros and Villains and this tread pretty much clarifies who is who.

You went all Se7en on us.

For someone who’s looking for so much grey (in an explicit contract, of all places), this is a pretty black and white perspective.

 

[crisi]

I feel empathy for them as well. Its a bummer when life doesn't go as planned. Its a bummer to loose a bunch of money. I've had both happen to me numerous times in my life. My first post in this thread told the OP exactly how to resolve his problem without being out much or perhaps even any money. But I have my own problems. And it really doesn't matter than its a low risk to have to be open to change someone's points, its a risk that I have chosen to make zero by my method of renting points through David. Because when it does happen, there is a chance I won't be available to help, and a very high chance I won't be able to do anything - and that would make me feel worse. So I would much rather have the person on the other side accept those risks when they rent and not create any emotional burden and responsibility to me for their vacation.

If protecting my own emotional health makes me a villain, well, its necessary for me.

And as to caveat emptor, you will find me (and Dean and Bing and Madame, and Marionette) in many many threads on this board telling people just that. Renting points is generally non-refundable. Get insurance. It isn't for everyone. You have to be pretty sure your plans won't change. Don't put out your own money for a group because someone might cancel and not have bought in on the non-refundable thing. Even if your owner says they will try and work with you, there is a very good chance they won't be able to do anything due to availability and points expiration.

And in 2017 pregnancy rarely just happens. Use dependable birth control and if you are trying to get pregnant, don't rent points.

 

[bumbershoot]

Although David may or may not allow a change, in reality this is far enough away that the reservation could be cancelled, points put back into owers account and then re-rented to another renter. Of course, there may be some wasted points and there should be a fee for this change, but it is entirely possible to do, you just have to convince him to allow this change and offer a fair fee.

You didn’t happen to look at the post just before your first one, or the post two before that, did you?


Might be worth a peek back at page 1. Here’s one of them:

This happened with one of my guest's reservations with David's. The renter happened to know someone who wanted to take the reservation so as the Member I was just asked to change the name on the reservation. I received $1 per point for doing so from David's. Not sure what the original renter was charged or if any of his original payment was returned to him.

Huh.

That said, yeah, it’s like getting into a show that gets cancelled after a big reveal or cliffhanger.

Oh let’s not bring My Name Is Earl up. Still heartbroken. Haha.

Look...every can agree that sometimes travel plans need to change and that it is not anyone's fault.

Hmm.

Man, you guys are so cold......does the insurance cover things like pregnancy, sickness, change of plans, divorce, weather.

Easy enough to find out what your intended insurance product covers.

However, I also find it ironic that David's advertises a "Rated 100% in Guest Satisfaction" and also states "Due to the complexity of the point system and the fact that Owners may have to bank or borrow points in order to secure your reservation, cancellations, upgrades and date modifications are not permitted."

If you know what you’re getting into and you get what you agreed to, that’s kind of the definition of 100% satisfaction.

The insurance company offered is Travel Guard and there are many options to choose, but there are LOTS of options to choose (are you 100% sure what one to pick?)

How old are you?
How old are your parents? Are you their healthcare proxy?
Are you if childbearing age with a partner?
Are you actively trying to have babies?
Do you have any big illnesses that are active OR might rear their heads?
Does anyone in your immediate family have those problems that might require you to help?
Are you or family members in the military?
Do you have children that you would have to care for if they became ill or injured?
Do you have to fly in for vacation?
Are you flying during hurricane season?
How about snow season?
Are you flying from, to, or through an area that might get difficult weather?

Those are some quick questions to ask when thinking of what insurance to buy.


The only condition I have is asthma, and it’s not actually a problem anymore.

I am getting a divorce and therefore don’t have to worry about the husband’s health, nor do I have to make accommodations for my mother in law’s health any longer. My son has had years to say his goodbyes to his grandmother, and a memorial service would simply be delayed if he were away. The service for his grandfather was held three months later. It’s practically tradition in their family.

I fly x-country. I am flexible and can leave early though if weather is threatening.

Etc.

It’s easy for me to go through the platinum, gold etc plans and see what is best.

but if thing are going to be so rigid, then the WARNING should be much harsher and stricter on the website. If the FAQ was in bold and red stating that under no situations will a change or modification be made, renters may hesitate and book direct with Disney (can cancel up to 24 hours or so) or find a less rigid source of point rentals.

?

Truly, Mr. Rogers said it best, "Love is at the root of everything, all learning, all relationships, love or the lack of it."

Bet Mr Rogers had contracts...

Not being willing to try to accommodate someone just because a contract says something is indeed showing a lack of love for your fellow man.

People aren’t not accommodating bc of contracts.

They are setting up those contracts because their lives don’t allow the flexibility to make accommodations.

Think about this, a renter bought (rented) these points and at 7 months out, there is still significant value in the points if the reservation needs to be cancelled, there should be some option that the renter can take such as renting to a friend (new name) or cancelling and applying the pioints to a new reservation (total change).

Again, did you see that post and follow up just before your first one?

However, the money the paid for the points are NON-REFUNDABLE. I will simply do everything in my power (actually not that hard to do) to make a change, switch resorts, add people, rebook for another date, and any other legal combination that is allowed by DVC.

Everything?

It took me the entire 7 months of looking most days to get my February trip changed.

Should we do that? If we aren’t, then we aren’t doing everything. If your definition of doing everything you can is “one phone call”, then it’s easy to see why you think it’s so simple.

At this point, I think this thread has run its course, may I suggest to the moderators that they close it, as it appears the OP is not going to return and with all of hatred spewed towards them, I can't say I blame them for that.

There is no hatred being spewed at all, let alone at the OP.

Travel insurance is complex, difficult to chose a policy, expensive, and there are a ton of things they do not cover.

Hardly. It’s easy. Read through it.

I think the list you posted was all that’s included in the platinum plan. Not individual choices. By the way.

As for expensive, it’s a couple hundred bucks if your trip is a few thousand. I don’t consider that to be expensive.

Besides, it is VERY hard to get your money from trip insurance as I had it once for a school trip and the paperwork was incredible and I gave up.

That’s a bummer. Don’t get insurance from that company again.

I hope you read ALL the documents for your health insurance (auto, disability, homeowners) as one day you may be in a situation where you need help and, according to you, you should may be denied help or coverage as your insurance may not cover something you assumed it would and that is will be your fault and you may die as a result of your own ignorance for not making sure 100% of everything unexpected will be covered.

Of course crisi would. As would I. Aren’t we all supposed to?

And the two I've used have agents you can call and ask about specific things that are covered...and they can point you to the exact place in their contracts where it shows coverage.

Yep!

We've had people here rent out points because a spouse died. Or because they lost their jobs and were struggling.

Yep.

I might rent out points because I’m going through a divorce. I might cry at the drop of a hat. I cry almost daily bc this is awful, and we weren't even in love anymore. This process is rotten. I cry while talking to the insurance agent.

And now I’m *expected* to go out of my way for someone else’s stuff? Nah. I’m dealing with my own stuff.

I sincerely hope you are never stretched so thin that you can understand that period of time for me and you can therefore continue to live believing this is always something minor.

Agreed.

Also, I never suggested that any owner of points should take the loss or spend hours upon hours to fix the problem, I only thought that a simple phone call to Disney to see if a request for a change could be done was a reasonable thing to do

Oh, if only if were guaranteed to be one simply phone call...

 

[bumbershoot]

Not true, I buy Travelguard as it covers pre-existing conditions.

Yep. When I choose my state I see that silver, gold, and platinum cover pre existing conditions.

The irony is some people are posting incredible extreme examples of a DVC owner that is so busy and stressed out that they can't take a few minutes

People are sharing their lives with you. They are explaining why they would choose hard-line policies. Maybe not nice to call them incredible and extreme?

Someone rented points from Davids company at least 7 or more months in advance and then found out they cant make the trip due his wife being pregnant.

He was booked in October. That’s food and wine.

The owner either has to find someone to take over that exact trip OR somehow manage to find availability.

I also believe that many people that rent points really DO NOT pay too much attention to the cancellation policy

Whereas I believe that people do, and if I do end up renting out my points I won’t be appeasing those who don’t read through the policies and contract.

 

[crisi]

You didn’t happen to look at the post just before your first one, or the post two before that, did you?
I might rent out points because I’m going through a divorce. I might cry at the drop of a hat. I cry almost daily bc this is awful, and we weren't even in love anymore. This process is rotten. I cry while talking to the insurance agent.

I once almost ended up hospitalized because I broke a coffee cup. A stupid coffee cup. Of course, it wasn't the coffee cup - it was the zillion other things that were happening. I sat on the floor and sobbed for an hour while my husband wondered if he should call an ambulance. Its awful, its irrational - you will (very likely most probably) get through it (and if you doubt you will, get yourself help when the doubt creeps in) - and during this time - do NOT take on other people's problems - you might handle them fine - and then break a stupid coffee cup.

 

[robinb]

I hope that the OP didn't come back to the thread because David helped him out and asked him to keep it on the down-low. FWIW, David does rent out existing reservations. I don't know if those are made with his own points or if they are reservations like the OP's.

I have rented out points here on the DIS and elsewhere many times. When I rent far enough in advance, my contract includes both change and cancellation clauses because I am sympathetic to changes in people's lives. I don't mind taking a little bit of my time to help someone out. If I can find another renter for the reservation, I will gladly refund the original renter (minus a cancellation fee which covers my time) once I have received payment from the new renter. I am never out any money. If someone changes a reservation and it takes fewer points, I don't give a partial refund. When I rent last minute (within 60 days) I don't have the flexibility to offer change and cancellation policies.

I have never had to use the cancellation clause, but I did make changes a couple of years ago for a customer whose honeymoon was bumped back. They were very grateful that I was able to be flexible for them. They had to change from BWV to SSR because of availability but they were still at WDW for their honeymoon. It was really not a big deal and no skin off my nose to help them. It was a win-win: I still got my money (more actually, since they added a day) and they still had their honeymoon.

If I have the ability to help someone, then why not? I guess that's what bother me a bit about the OP's situation. A (I assume) studio reservation during food and booze is like gold. As of this writing, there are EIGHT nights available in a studio for all of October over all DVC resorts. Eight. None of them consecutive. A whole week would be easily re-rented if only David would allow it. I sincerely hope that the OP was able to work something out with him.

 

[ziravan]

To anyone thinking of renting DVC points - Caveat Emptor, baby

You say this as a snark, but this is EXACTLY the point.

People don’t need to get the idea in their heads that renting points offers both a deep discount AND the flexibility of a CRO reservation.

It’s a trade off. For good reason.

Yes! Caveat Emptor, baby!

The market place will bear what it will bear. The brokers could offer some limited flexibility, but that would come at a price that would put them close enough to CRO as to make them a moot niche.

Instead, in order to create a spread worth engaging, they have to get points at a discount worth passing along. That has its own cost, in owner convenience and reduced hassle.

None of this happens in a vacuum. Buyer beware is right.

It’s just not the owner’s obligation to both tender the advantages of renting and to shoulder the risks involved. It goes beyond contractual obligations. I don’t find the moral obligation you’d impose here, either.

 

[Dean]

I hope that the OP didn't come back to the thread because David helped him out and asked him to keep it on the down-low.

It's possible but given the other reports that David was rigid in this area, I'm doubtful or if they did, it was a win for everyone where the owner and David's made a little more and the renter got back part of their investment.

This is exactly the risk one takes renting and given the increased difficulty rescheduling or renting a scheduled reservation or even points on shorter notice (even 7 months), any flexibility today is more difficult than a few years ago going back to around the time SSR came on board. Disney has cancelation policies in place as well but aren't they charging additional fees after 30 days out now?

 

[disneyeveryyear]

What I find the most amazing thing is that the original post from 3+ months ago got 17 responses. Since it was revived there have been 99 more entries. It seems to be much more of a hot button topic now than it was then.