ECV Accidernt at MK

[YellowXterra]

Just trying to understand.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Just trying to understand.

Next time you're at WDW, rent a scooter for the week. It shouldn't take more than a day or two... It's really an eye opener.

 

[Friendly Frog]

YellowXterra, maybe I can help explain a little.

Those scooters are hard to maneuver in a bus when it is empty. You have to maneuver very close to the edge of the regular passenger seats in order to move into your place. It works OK when the seats are empty but you add people, kids, strollers etc and it quickly becomes dangerous. Even worse if the person is a new rider as it is VERY easy for them to accelerate faster and farther than expected. In an empty bus they will hit a seat, a full bus and someone will get hurt! With a full bus even an experienced user can have a problem manuvering into place.

The second issue is that when a chair/ECV waits in the regular line, by the time they get to the front of the line, several ECV's may be there waiting. Remember that the buses just have a couple of spaces for ECV's, so they may have watched a bus leave with empty space and then the next bus may have several ECV users who need to board. With only two spots per bus a ECV user may have to wait for several more buses AFTER they are the first person in line. Even with the old line system I have had to wait many times longer than the regular line due to the limited spots on the bus for me.

The only efficient and safe way to load the buses is to load every ECV place on every bus. Think of the bus as having two sections, and a line for the ECV section and a line for the seating section. You would not be competing for my place and I would not be taking your place.


I THINK THAT EVERY MEMBER ON THIS FORUM SHOULD CONTACT DISNEY expressing their concerns about the new bus system and ask that the reinstate the old system. If needed maybe Disney could address the issue like a transportation GAC and give out a number of "transportation line" passes based on the groups REASONABLE needs?

Anyone know the proper contact person?

 

[disney david]

YellowXterra, those scooters are hard to maneuver in a bus when it is empty. You have to maneuver very close to the edge of the regular passenger seats in order to move into your place. It works OK when the seats are empty but you add people, kids, strollers etc and it quickly becomes dangerous. Even worse if the person is a new rider and it is easy for them to accelerate faster and farther than expected when they get nervous in a crowded bus!

The second issue is that when a chair/ECV waits in the regular line, by the time they get to the front of the line, several ECV's may be there waiting. Remember that the buses just have a couple of spaces for ECV's, so they may have watched a bus leave with empty spaces for the only to have to wait for several more buses AFTER they are the first person in line.

The only efficient and safe way to load the buses is to load every ECV place on every bus. Think of the bus as having two sections, and a line for the ECV section and a line for the seating section. You would not be competing for my place and I would not be taking your place.


I THINK THAT EVERY MEMBER ON THIS FORUM SHOULD CONTACT DISNEY expressing their concerns about the new bus system and ask that the reinstate the old system. If needed maybe Disney could address the issue like a transportation GAC and give out a number of "transportation line" passes based on the groups REASONABLE needs?

Anyone know the proper contact person?

sue put the link to write disney their not going to come up with a gac for buses the only thing disney will do it look at it. Yes everyone should write disney not just tell them the bad but tell them what worked if the old system worked tell them and why. if their aspect of this system and the old one they could use let them know. Sometimes disney do things not to make it harder on guest with needs but sometimes it happens and the more people tell them the faster it will get fixed. What might look good on paper might not work in real life.

 

[GrammyJudy]

Thank you for all your support. I still have not heard from Disney. The bruises are finally strating to go away.

 

[Huff]

I think the compromise would be your family goes through the line and you wait and join them. Why couldn't they figure that out.

This may work sometimes but is not a good solution for all buses, rides and attractions. I want to spend the day with my family. Not constantly sitting by myself at each attraction. Disneyland has told me to do this at many rides and its not fun to spend the day mostly alone instead of with family. The exception is at Toy Story at Disneyland. They have no FP's. The CM's there will handwrite a pass to come back later in the day so our party doesn't have to split up. Their que isn't fun in an ECV.

 

[Nanajo1]

My family, save my DH ,gets in line and boards thru the front. I, in my power chair and DH board thru the back. If the line is long and it looks like either they or I wont get on we've already decided to all wait for the next bus or where to meet up. Simple. It is all about flexibilty. A little planning eases the stress.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

That sounds like a good compromise, but actually would prevent most people using ECVs or wheelchairs from being loaded unless their other family members were close enough to the front of the line that there was room to get loaded when they got there.

They probably did not call you back for the reason disney david mentioned.

One of the reasons they are mainstreaming the lines is that the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) requires things to be mainstreamed as much as possible. That works OK in city buses where the loading for guests with wheelchairs/ECVs is at the front door and the wheelchair spots are at the front door. It does not work well at WDW because the buses load at the back for guest with disabilities. If they wait in the regular line, besides the manouvering problem, it is likely that the bus will be too full for loading when they get to the front. That can happen even if the bus has plenty of room for guests who walk on.

When you state that the family of the rider would need to be near the front of the line for them to all fit on the bus isn't really true. There are seats that are clearly marked for wheelchairs, and just as on a City bus, when a wheelchair enters, those people must get up. Don't they take up say maybe 3-4 seats? You figure those say 4 people will have to stand, then the wheelchair party's will too if need be. If the wheelchair party is too far back in the line, they can do what large family's do.. let others in front of them and wait for the next bus too... that would be an option making them front of the line for prime seating on the next bus. I have seen this happen with large families or just people who would rather sit than stand.
As far as managing to get the chair thru the line for the bus, isn't it the same as getting it thru the lines for some of the attractions? Or did they not widen the bus lines enough? If they did not widen them enough, then either they should stop this practice or widen them to where the chairs can get thru them safely for all around..

 

[A Mickeyfan]

GrammyJudy.. I am so very sorry you had to go thru this.. as a rule of thumb, when ever anyone takes a fall anywhere, get checked out..especially if the people in admin are asking you to... you just never know. Many years ago my mom fell over a the curbing at a corner store. She didn't think anything of it.. the store clerk came running out and suggested she go to the ER to get checked out.. she refused. A week later her ribs were still hurting her.. she thought maybe she had a chest cold or something.. turned out she had broken ribs... it was too late for the store to pay for the doctor visits too... she refused to go get checked out...

 

[SueM in MN]

The only policy the drivers will enforce from the new set of rules is that only 6 people are allowed through the back door until they change it to only two which they should. That what will make every one happy and make it fair. The drivers will tell you not to go through the que because they don't want to be stuck having to tell a guest they can't board because the bus is full or they was not close enough to the front to move guest to load them.

I don’t forsee them changing it to 2. That would cause hardship for some families (for example: mom, dad and 2 children).

When you state that the family of the rider would need to be near the front of the line for them to all fit on the bus isn't really true. There are seats that are clearly marked for wheelchairs, and just as on a City bus, when a wheelchair enters, those people must get up. Don't they take up say maybe 3-4 seats?

No, it is true and would have happened to us quite a few times in the past if wheelchairs were not loaded first.
On the WDW buses, the wheelchair spots are in the back. It takes a certain amount of space to manouver a wheelchair into place in order to load it and tie it down in the wheelchair space. An ECV takes more space to manouver than a wheelchair does. It takes more than just the one seat that folds up to make a parking spot.
When the bus gets too full, there is not space to load a wheelchair or ECV because of all the people who might get run into, even if there are still seats left.

City buses are configured differently - the wheelchair spots are in the front and people are asked to keep moving to the back of the bus. So, there will be manouvering space pretty much until the bus is too full for even people standing to get on.

When our party is more than 3, we do usually split up. One, 2 or 3 go with DD and load with her wheelchair. The rest wait in line.
We have often had the situation where those of us who waited in line were able to get into the bus and even get seats. In most cases, at least 10 or more people behind us in line got seats too. But, if DD had been with us waiting in line, there would not have been enough room to load her wheelchair. If we had to step aside and wait for the next bus, it would not be fair because there were seats for many people behind us in line. The only reason we would have to wait was because DD can’t walk onto the bus.

You figure those say 4 people will have to stand, then the wheelchair party's will too if need be. If the wheelchair party is too far back in the line, they can do what large family's do.. let others in front of them and wait for the next bus too... that would be an option making them front of the line for prime seating on the next bus. I have seen this happen with large families or just people who would rather sit than stand.

That is a different situation. The large family is choosing to wait for the next bus rather than stand on the more crowded bus.
My DD doesn’t have that choice. A bus that is too full to manouver a wheelchair on usually still has lots of room for other guests to stand and usually even to sit. (And, for the record, we usually have 2 of our party standing unless there are empty seats on the bus - even if we were first at the bus step and would have all gotten seats anyway.

And, many people have experienced buses double parked at the end of the day. The second bus pulls up next to and a bit behind the first bus. Because of how it pulls up, wheelchairs and ECVs can’t be loaded. People with wheelchairs and ECVs have reported they sometimes have had to wait for a 3rd or 4th bus to actually get loaded, even when people who arrived at the stop way after they did were gone before them.

As far as managing to get the chair thru the line for the bus, isn't it the same as getting it thru the lines for some of the attractions? Or did they not widen the bus lines enough? If they did not widen them enough, then either they should stop this practice or widen them to where the chairs can get thru them safely for all around..

The lines vary. Some are not as wide as others. Most have more turns and twists than the attraction lines.

 

[disney david]

I don’t forsee them changing it to 2. That would cause hardship for some families (for example: mom, dad and 2 children).

No, it is true and would have happened to us quite a few times in the past if wheelchairs were not loaded first.
On the WDW buses, the wheelchair spots are in the back. It takes a certain amount of space to manouver a wheelchair into place in order to load it and tie it down in the wheelchair space. An ECV takes more space to manouver than a wheelchair does. It takes more than just the one seat that folds up to make a parking spot.
When the bus gets too full, there is not space to load a wheelchair or ECV because of all the people who might get run into, even if there are still seats left.

City buses are configured differently - the wheelchair spots are in the front and people are asked to keep moving to the back of the bus. So, there will be manouvering space pretty much until the bus is too full for even people standing to get on.

When our party is more than 3, we do usually split up. One, 2 or 3 go with DD and load with her wheelchair. The rest wait in line.
We have often had the situation where those of us who waited in line were able to get into the bus and even get seats. In most cases, at least 10 or more people behind us in line got seats too. But, if DD had been with us waiting in line, there would not have been enough room to load her wheelchair. If we had to step aside and wait for the next bus, it would not be fair because there were seats for many people behind us in line. The only reason we would have to wait was because DD can’t walk onto the bus.

That is a different situation. The large family is choosing to wait for the next bus rather than stand on the more crowded bus.
My DD doesn’t have that choice. A bus that is too full to manouver a wheelchair on usually still has lots of room for other guests to stand and usually even to sit. (And, for the record, we usually have 2 of our party standing unless there are empty seats on the bus - even if we were first at the bus step and would have all gotten seats anyway.

And, many people have experienced buses double parked at the end of the day. The second bus pulls up next to and a bit behind the first bus. Because of how it pulls up, wheelchairs and ECVs can’t be loaded. People with wheelchairs and ECVs have reported they sometimes have had to wait for a 3rd or 4th bus to actually get loaded, even when people who arrived at the stop way after they did were gone before them.

The lines vary. Some are not as wide as others. Most have more turns and twists than the attraction lines.

I also thinking it would be better with this new system if they got buses that could load through the front door it would Mae it easier when the guest in line get to the front the driver could have more of a chance to load them. City buse vary depending on the type most city use the old rats with the lift and have been replaceing them with new low floor buses like Disney so it still possible they load through the back door. In NYC they still have the old lift style buses and getting new nova articulated buses that have three separate sets of doors which you will load through the front door it huge it the size of at least two disney buses lined back to back. I still dont know how they get it through nyc traffic but it big enough you know to give it room to move.By the way if your in NYC and see it coming take three steps back because it huge and rides the curb and will surprise you if your not ready. Most buses have a front door and back door depending where they take the wheelchair those will be a little wider but on the nova and i think Disney did pay extra to have extra wide doors on the bus because the front door are wide enough to take a wheel chair just don't have the ramp to do it.

 

[PatMcDuck]

I can totally see this happening, and that must have been both painful and scary.

I push my son in a large Convaid chair, and I was crashing into things left and right today. After while, I realized it was not just me, the openings can be so narrow, with just an inch on either side of the chair for clearance.

I hope you feel better soon! I think people were taking advantage of the skipping the queue lines for the busses with large groups, and also large strollers (not what the handicapped waiting area was designed for, but they can't fit in the bus queues either I guess).

 

[Michigan]

I don't understand after all these years Disney hasn't got rid of the buses and gone to a people mover system like the airports have. No need to tie down. I said this once to a bus driver and he said he thought in 10 years it probably would be that way because of the cost of up keep for the buses and the price of gas.

 

[deegack]

Buses are much more flexible to operate than people movers or monorails etc. a huge crowd at mk send more buses, closing time at Epcot more buses go there. It allows Disney to manage the crowds better. Other systems are limited to the number of cars that can be on the track at any one time. Once you hit that max you cannot add more no matter how crowded.
I don't see a time when Disney doesn't have some kind of bus like transportation but hey if a bus driver days it's true....

 

[EastYorkDisneyFan]

I don't understand after all these years Disney hasn't got rid of the buses and gone to a people mover system like the airports have. No need to tie down. I said this once to a bus driver and he said he thought in 10 years it probably would be that way because of the cost of up keep for the buses and the price of gas.

Simple buses are cheap compared to those alternatives.

 

[RVinMomma]

We are going to WDW in 2 weeks. My dad will be in an electric wheelchair bc he has ALS I cant imagine him trying to get through the lines like that. He will just be recieving his chair a week before we go so he wont have a lot of experience driving it. I understand that people without a disability dont want HC folks getting special treatments along with their 10 family members, but they should rethink and change this policy ASAP.

 

[disney david]

We are going to WDW in 2 weeks. My dad will be in an electric wheelchair bc he has ALS I cant imagine him trying to get through the lines like that. He will just be recieving his chair a week before we go so he wont have a lot of experience driving it. I understand that people without a disability dont want HC folks getting special treatments along with their 10 family members, but they should rethink and change this policy ASAP.

just go to the front of the que at the parks don't go through the que the drivers will tell you to do it so they won't say anything to you. this would not be the first policy disney puts in place that the cm don't follow or the guest decides they don't have to follow. this policy needs to be reviewed plus i also think before any policy can be put in place they need to put signs up at each que letting the guest know. that why i think they have not decide they will keep this que for long if they don't want to put signs up. this is still being tested until disney ready to throw in the towel and give up their idea of this working.

 

[seashoreCM]

They have changed the bus load at MK so that ECV and WC go through the maze like the walkers and not down the side to the front. Anyway I tried to do that and The turns are very sharp as the lines are narrow. I didn't quite make one turn and ended up under one of the chains. !

Sometimes you need to back up and try going around the turn again. HOw easily can you see behind you?

 

[livndisney]

just go to the front of the que at the parks don't go through the que the drivers will tell you to do it so they won't say anything to you. this would not be the first policy disney puts in place that the cm don't follow or the guest decides they don't have to follow. this policy needs to be reviewed plus i also think before any policy can be put in place they need to put signs up at each que letting the guest know. that why i think they have not decide they will keep this que for long if they don't want to put signs up. this is still being tested until disney ready to throw in the towel and give up their idea of this working.

This is not correct. You cannot just go to the front of the line at the parks or at the buses. Many bus stops have a box painted to show where wheelchairs/ecvs need to wait. Ecvs do not load at the front door of the bus, they load at the back door.

In the parks, most lines are large enough for an ecv. If you have any questions a Cm will advise you.

 

[disney david]

This is not correct. You cannot just go to the front of the line at the parks or at the buses. Many bus stops have a box painted to show where wheelchairs/ecvs need to wait. Ecvs do not load at the front door of the bus, they load at the back door.

In the parks, most lines are large enough for an ecv. If you have any questions a Cm will advise you.

Out of respect for sue and the fact I don't feel like getting into an argument with you.