ECV judgement

[maxiesmom]

Will this post be removed, I put an apology up earlier on because I apparently offended someone and I added a few points that I made sure could not offend, if this kind of censorship goes on then this isn't for me.
One point was that Florida law requires the bus driver prioritises those in wheelchairs/ECV's etc. However, a guest who uses one, but, turns up the same time as the bus when there is long queue of people waiting for up to 30 minutes (or more) can refuse to be boarded at that time, in 10 years at WDW I have seen that happen twice, if you are uncomfortable with looks and you are in that situation why not do that? You are sat down and it would be appreciated, the same with large groups, Disney asks nicely for groups of 6 or more to split up and I have never seen a group do that ever. By the way, solo travellers get plenty of stares and looks too, especially when waiting at a M&G.

Why not refuse to get on the bus? Because the next one may not have a working lift. Or it may not have an available spot for the ECV. I do think it would be nice if they have a large family for them to split up, and maybe one able bodied person go with the ECV, but I understand if they don't. How many of us want to spend time split up from our families, through no choice of our own?



Btw, if you have never been in a wheelchair or used a scooter, just because you are sitting down, that doesn't mean you don't get tired or worn out. You do. It is not as if you are "sitting" just to relax.

 

[Disney Frenhines]

Why not refuse to get on the bus? Because the next one may not have a working lift. Or it may not have an available spot for the ECV. I do think it would be nice if they have a large family for them to split up, and maybe one able bodied person go with the ECV, but I understand if they don't. How many of us want to spend time split up from our families, through no choice of our own?



Btw, if you have never been in a wheelchair or used a scooter, just because you are sitting down, that doesn't mean you don't get tired or worn out. You do. It is not as if you are "sitting" just to relax.

Again, I seem to offend, however, don't complain at being stared at with disapproving looks by those of us with sore feet, grouchy tired children and babies who have been waiting for a serious amount of time at the end of a long day, as for your argument concerning the lift on a bus or no space, hey, we wait for the next bus if there is no space on that one and what are the odds of more than one bus not having a working lift, I think Disney would ensure the lifts work so no one gets trapped ON a bus, let alone unable to get get on it, it's not as if you will be stuck there forever, probably about the same amount of time as people standing have waited as the driver would contact central control to let them know the situation so another bus with a working lift would be sent out as it is Florida law. And for your last point, standing on sore feet when tired or sat down when tired, I know which I would prefer. With regards to families being split up, if it logistically impossible, two adults and a whole bunch of young kids and the able bodied adult has to aid the disabled adult on an off then that is valid, but, we are talking of large groups of older kids(teens) and adults all getting on at the same time when there is no reason why they cannot split up, all they would need to do is arrange a place to meet at the parks and I'm sure between them they would have enough mobile phones to update each other, but, sorry, I shouldn't even be thinking such a terrible thing, being split up from your family for a whole half hour (max). And people in ECVs wonder why people resent them. And no doubt I'll get another warning.

 

[goofy4tink]

Will this post be removed, I put an apology up earlier on because I apparently offended someone and I added a few points that I made sure could not offend, if this kind of censorship goes on then this isn't for me.
One point was that Florida law requires the bus driver prioritises those in wheelchairs/ECV's etc. However, a guest who uses one, but, turns up the same time as the bus when there is long queue of people waiting for up to 30 minutes (or more) can refuse to be boarded at that time, in 10 years at WDW I have seen that happen twice, if you are uncomfortable with looks and you are in that situation why not do that? You are sat down and it would be appreciated, the same with large groups, Disney asks nicely for groups of 6 or more to split up and I have never seen a group do that ever. By the way, solo travellers get plenty of stares and looks too, especially when waiting at a M&G.

A quick story. Back about 3 years ago, I was leaving MK midday. Going back to BW. Well, there was an older (maybe in their 70's) couple, both on ECVs. They were patiently waiting for the bus. We got to talking....they told me that they hadn't been able to get on the bus that had left about 30 mins prior to that....a couple ahead of them got to board. The next bus was a no as well...lift didn't work. Now, understand..it was summer time..it was hot and really humid. Sure, they were sort of under cover, but if you're familiar with the park bus stops, most of the 'handicapped' areas are out in the sun, not under the roof. Well, about 20 mins later a bus came...and yep, the lift didn't work! Seriously? The driver didn't seem to be too concerned..not until I told him that this couple had been sitting there, in the sun, for close to 45 mins because they had been denied access to the previous two buses! Told him the lift on the prior bus seemed to be defective as well...and that this was just not the way guests should be treated. He made a call, as I stood there. I ran into those same two people later that day...they thanked me profusely...seems a bus, with a working lift, came about 4 mins after we left! So, it's not always easy to just sit and take another bus.

If it were me, running things at Disney, I would mandate that each person in an ECV is allowed one person to board with them. everyone else gets in line. Unless there are children. But, if there are more than two adults, then one adult gets in line with the kids. People just don't seem to care when they board with a group of more than 5 or 6. Basically, their group has now taken up at least 10 seats!

 

[olwyngdh]

If people on ecvs have to split up their families, so should every other large group. Oh, so sorry. You may only ride the bus in groups of two unless accompanied by someone holding a child ticket. Sorry, not feasible. As it is, family size is limited for people on ecvs to 6 people including the person on the ecv for busses and for wheelchair entrances to rides. I'm not sure how that works with the das, but the das doesn't apply to the busses. When the able bodied are forced to separate from their families, I will accede to being separated from mine to. Try using your brains people!! We have to board first for your safety. Whether you think it matters or not, we are there to spend time with our families as much as you are. By the time we get off the bus, you are at your room at the resort or at the gate of the park. I am so sorry that your happy place has to be ruined by seeing those of us with health problems taking your space and breathing your air.

 

[Networth]

Who said anything about people not wishing to "share air or space" seems a bit harsh. As someone who has been on both sides I do think it is wrong when their is a long line of people waiting for a bus and someone in an ECV rolls up just as the bus arrives with a large party in tow and essentially cuts "the line" ahead of those that have been waiting 10, 20, 30 mins.

If you want truly equality get in line like everyone else, and it can be done we do it all the time no special treatment just because my grandmother and sometimes father are in an ECV we wait our turn in line for the bus. That way we have not cut anybody and our entire party can get on the bus without looking and feeling rude because we waited in line just like everyone else.

As for bus driver all you do is say "no I'm ok waiting" The argument ECV's are forced to board the very next bus that pulls up is simply not true.

 

[olwyngdh]

Who said anything about people not wishing to "share air or space" seems a bit harsh. As someone who has been on both sides I do think it is wrong when their is a long line of people waiting for a bus and someone in an ECV rolls up just as the bus arrives with a large party in tow and essentially cuts "the line" ahead of those that have been waiting 10, 20, 30 mins.

If you want truly equality get in line like everyone else, and it can be done we do it all the time no special treatment just because my grandmother and sometimes father are in an ECV we wait our turn in line for the bus. That way we have not cut anybody and our entire party can get on the bus without looking and feeling rude because we waited in line just like everyone else.

As for bus driver all you do is say "no I'm ok waiting" The argument ECV's are forced to board the very next bus that pulls up is simply not true.

All lines are not accessable. Some lines are accessable to a certain point and then the ecv party is pulled out. The ecv must board an empty bus. The fact that people think that those who need ecvs should be seperated from their families is something that I find inhumane and disgusting. Just because someone has a mobility or health issue does not make them less of a person and someone who doesn't have a right to be with their family. I will remember the next time that I am still waiting after the 5th bus pulls away and there is another woman screaming about how unfair it is that I am loaded before she gets on, even though I have been waiting longer, that she has more rights than my family or I do, and I will think of you.

 

[maxiesmom]

Who said anything about people not wishing to "share air or space" seems a bit harsh. As someone who has been on both sides I do think it is wrong when their is a long line of people waiting for a bus and someone in an ECV rolls up just as the bus arrives with a large party in tow and essentially cuts "the line" ahead of those that have been waiting 10, 20, 30 mins.

If you want truly equality get in line like everyone else, and it can be done we do it all the time no special treatment just because my grandmother and sometimes father are in an ECV we wait our turn in line for the bus. That way we have not cut anybody and our entire party can get on the bus without looking and feeling rude because we waited in line just like everyone else.

As for bus driver all you do is say "no I'm ok waiting" The argument ECV's are forced to board the very next bus that pulls up is simply not true.

If you want true equality, only the same number of able bodied people would be allowed onto a bus as people in ECVs.

The argument that people in ECVs should just let a bus go by that can accommodate them is just stupid. Those people are following the rules that Disney has in place, yet they are being made to feel they are doing something wrong. They are not. If you (in general) are so intolerant that you feel upset and hatred for someone who gets to board the bus before you, you are the one with a problem. You know Disney's rules. Maybe you should take it up with them. Or stop using the buses if you find them so upsetting.

Treat people the way you would like to be treated. Don't be mad at them for following the rules because you think your way is better. Geesh.

 

[dawnhaze]

I've been admonished by bus drivers for taking my ECV through a normal bus queue rather than going up to the handicapped loading area. One guy said something like "You make your life harder and my life harder, if other people don't like how we do things they can rent a car."

I've also had the experience of waiting for the next bus and finding that the next bus has a broken ramp, and then the next one after that was one of the old ones with the high-up lift that I just don't feel safe using. I think I finally got on the fourth bus that day. And I still got dirty looks from people in the bus line even though I'd been there much longer than any of them, which sort of triggered the realization that it was going to happen anyway, so why worry about it.

 

[hookedonears]

I know I can post this on the Disabilities board but I wanted a general opinion.

I am going to Disney with just myself and my daughter. I have a hip issue that makes walking long distances painful. I can do it but I will be miserable. I wanted to rent an ECV to make my trip more pleasant. My daughter is ALL for it as she thinks it will definitely make me less cranky than past trips and she wants it to not hurt.

The question is -- I am only 40 and I look fine. Am I going to get so much attitude that it won't be worth it? Am I going to just get dirty looks the entire time and regret it? I don't particularly care what others think but if people make comments my kid will care. I won't line jump. I won't need any assistance. What would you do?

Yes - don't know.
Yes - don't know.
Wouldn't.

 

[goofy4tink]

If people on ecvs have to split up their families, so should every other large group. Oh, so sorry. You may only ride the bus in groups of two unless accompanied by someone holding a child ticket. Sorry, not feasible. As it is, family size is limited for people on ecvs to 6 people including the person on the ecv for busses and for wheelchair entrances to rides. I'm not sure how that works with the das, but the das doesn't apply to the busses. When the able bodied are forced to separate from their families, I will accede to being separated from mine to. Try using your brains people!! We have to board first for your safety. Whether you think it matters or not, we are there to spend time with our families as much as you are. By the time we get off the bus, you are at your room at the resort or at the gate of the park. I am so sorry that your happy place has to be ruined by seeing those of us with health problems taking your space and breathing your air.

Disney says you should be separated from your group if it's more than 6 people. And if people respected this 'recommendation', I would have no issue at all. But they don't. When I've been standing in the hot sun for 20+ mins, and just as the bus rolls up, you and your family of 10+ arrive at that ECV spot, and the driver allows you and your entire group on? Yes, I'm going to be upset.
And your argument that your party is just getting off the bus when I'm already in my room or at the park? Sorry....your family may very well all wait for you. But a lot don't. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the ECV bound person say "You go ahead, I'll catch up. Meet you at xyz."
Here's the issue...it only takes a few rotten apples to mess it up for everyone. As I said....I've spent time with someone on an ECV and I get it...I truly do. You aren't going to find a much stronger proponent anywhere. But, I have seen massive abuse.
There was the time, at the S/D dock that two middle aged guests were on the boat with their ECVs...when we docked, they took off like a shot....yelling 'Race you to the door'. Nearly knocked a little girl down that they failed to see. Thank God her mother was watching! I believe that if OUIs could be handed out for ECV use, they both would have been recipients!!!

I think you go to far when you say we don't understand, and that you are 'taking our space and breathing our air'....seriously? Do you not understand that it isn't the rule abiding guests that we have an issue with? It's those that don't care how their behaviour impacts others. I will gladly sit and wait while you are boarded. I seldom sit in the 'special' seats because I know I may well have to move. Perhaps I should sit in them...at least if they are needed, the driver won't get an argument from me when asked to move! I have no issue with your family remaining with you...I truly don't. But please have some care for those that have been waiting for awhile now, and have to be someplace but may now miss an ADR because they now have to wait for another bus because that family group of 10+ all 'had' to stay together. It happens...it has happened to me. There was that time at WL that we had waited about 20 mins...just missed that last bus to DHS...so got in line for the next one. I would say we were about 30th in line, maybe further back. The bus that had left had to leave people standing there. Well, just as the bus came into view, along came a woman on her ECV...she sped up, getting to the ECV spot just as the bus stopped. She yelled for her family to hurry up.....they didn't. And the bus driver allowed her to board the bus, and then held us all up while her family of 11, yes 11, arrived. So, 15 seats gone before one non-ECV guest got on. I didn't make it on...was at the door when the driver said no more room. So...by the time I got to DHS, I was late. Now, admittedly, I had to still get to BC for my ADR, but I had left plenty of time. And of course there were not boats in sight, which meant we now had to walk, and walk quickly. We arrived about 15 mins past our ADR time. Just a combination of bad luck and timing all around, but if I had been able to get on that bus, I would have made it in time.

We all have to coexist here on this planet Earth...it would be nice if we tried to think about what others have to deal with and imagine walking in their shoes, just for a little bit. It would be nice if everyone could have their say, politely of course, without others sniping at them. Everyone is entitled to their opinion...and not everyone has the same experience. I try to just let it all roll off my back when in WDW, thinking 'there but for the grace of God go I'. I can wait an extra few minutes for others that have an issue. But I do tend to get a bit nudgy when I see some take advantage.

 

[AmyB2006]

It's always pointed out that Disney Guests with ECVs --

Enter a bus FIRST, for the safety of other riders.
Exit a bus LAST, for the safety of other riders.​

Not the same as the idea of "front of the line" access for a ride or a show.

If you are timid about parking your ECV on a bus, perhaps your DD could do it, or assist you. Make sure the ECV speed is turned down from "theme park" speed. When the ECV's back wheels are approx where you want them, you can get off the ECV and lift the front wheel into place. The front is not heavy. Easy Peasy.

I've taken my own ECV to WDW for about 8 years. I was apprehensive the first time. However, everything has been OK, and Disney is very accommodating. Only complaints have happened here on Internet sites, where people can reveal their contempt for others, anonymously (of course).

Don't know if it's been pointed out or not, but you can also ask the bus driver to do it. My Dad had an ECV before his knee surgeries and he would ask the driver sometimes and they are happy to assist.

I think a lot of the issue comes becuase some people with them think they own the place, and run over people, and just be bullies/jerks. I think some of the judgements about people who may not look like they need one I call the walmart effect, go to Walmart, and see a person who had no issue walking into the store then suddenly need one because they are too fat to walk around the store while buying horrible food. Not judging just saying.

Yeah, no judgement here at all. LOL

OP... don't worry about the Judgy McJudgersons you might encounter. Just enjoy your trip.

 

[LiveYourLife]

OP, I will be too busy with my face in my smartphone, Facebooking my every move and not engaging in discussions with my family to judge you in your ECV

Absolutely get the ECV if it will make your trip better! Have fun!!!

 

[AmyB2006]

OP, I will be too busy with my face in my smartphone, Facebooking my every move and not engaging in discussions with my family to judge you in your ECV

Absolutely get the ECV if it will make your trip better! Have fun!!!

Don't forget that you'll be videotaping with you iPad too.

 

[LiveYourLife]

Don't forget that you'll be videotaping with you iPad too.

Of course!!! Is there any other way???

 

[BuzzinDownToDisney]

If people on ecvs have to split up their families, so should every other large group. Oh, so sorry. You may only ride the bus in groups of two unless accompanied by someone holding a child ticket. Sorry, not feasible. As it is, family size is limited for people on ecvs to 6 people including the person on the ecv for busses and for wheelchair entrances to rides. [\B]I'm not sure how that works with the das, but the das doesn't apply to the busses. When the able bodied are forced to separate from their families, I will accede to being separated from mine to. Try using your brains people!! [\B]

LOL. I will when you do. The 6 limit is enforced with all the strictness of 12 items or less in your local supermarket's express lane. I've personally experienced missing 2 buses because someone using an ECV rolled on up to the stop moments before the bus arrived with a group of 10+.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Disney says you should be separated from your group if it's more than 6 people....I've been standing in the hot sun for 20+ mins, and just as the bus rolls up....Here's the issue...

The issue is not scooter users, nor is it non-scooter users.

The problem is that nobody wants to wait for a bus. If Disney doesn't want unhappy snowmen, then they should provide better transportation options. Waiting more than ten minutes for a bus to show- any guest - is really unacceptable. Except I do have to credit Disney for moving a tremendous amount of people each day. Still, the system could be vastly improved.

Truly, I've been to WDW with large groups, and it is much harder to travel in a group of twelve than a group of four. Even with ADR's, parties of twelve wait a VERY long time to dine: normally 20-60minutes past our ADR! Small groups get to pass large groups all day long. My point is not to pit large parties against small ones...my point is that Disney's busing system needs improvement.

The WDW transportation system is flawed, not the guests.

The best we can do, is try to be civil to each other. Here on the DIS, and at WDW. We'd do well to play it forward and share each other's joy. Relish the little girl whose laughing with grandpa...it might just be their last visit together.

 

[olwyngdh]

LOL. I will when you do. The 6 limit is enforced with all the strictness of 12 items or less in your local supermarket's express lane. I've personally experienced missing 2 buses because someone using an ECV rolled on up to the stop moments before the bus arrived with a group of 10+.

And I have seen them separated by the bus driver and in ride lines. I have gotten on rides before another party with a scooter because we only had 4 people, and she was waiting for the rest of her party to get to the front of the line (she had 8 people and two of them were told they had to go through the regular line the rest of the way instead of with her.) Enforcement isn't standard, and it should be, but that is no excuse for the abuse that people who aren't breaking the rules from people who think that they are better, more important, have more feelings, etc than people who have mobility issues. I would LOVE to be able to wait in line. I was thrilled when Haunted Mansion mainstreamed the line and I could play too. I would LOVE to be able to run with my daughter. I would be ecstatic to be able to climb the Swiss family treehouse or do Tom Sawyer's island. I would trade you my "advantages" any day.

I am concerned about our next trip. There will be 7 of us, so I expect that my daughter and son in law, or my best friends will be separated from me on the bus and in ride lines, something able bodied groups don't have to worry about. I will probably have to keep my friends with me, because they have never been to disney, and lose time with my daughter and son in law. Since I only see them once or twice a year, I guess shouldn't regret the time I won't get to spend with them. We will separate, that is the rules, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

 

[bibliophile]

All lines are not accessable. Some lines are accessable to a certain point and then the ecv party is pulled out. The ecv must board an empty bus. The fact that people think that those who need ecvs should be seperated from their families is something that I find inhumane and disgusting. Just because someone has a mobility or health issue does not make them less of a person and someone who doesn't have a right to be with their family. I will remember the next time that I am still waiting after the 5th bus pulls away and there is another woman screaming about how unfair it is that I am loaded before she gets on, even though I have been waiting longer, that she has more rights than my family or I do, and I will think of you.

Oh please. No one is saying you should be forcibly separated from you family just because you have a disability, and you know it. So please don't try to make this into something it's not. All we're asking is that people with ECVs treat others with decency and respect, instead of feeling entitled to special treatment, i.e. being able to cut in front of the line with a horde of able bodied "family" members and leaving little room for everybody else who had been patiently waiting their turn for 15, 20, 30+ minutes.

Yes, people in EVCs need to board first and I don't think anyone is objecting to that, but when you have a large group of teenage or adult ABLE BODIED people boarding with you, well that's just taking advantage.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

Honestly, it's usually only people on the Dis that have problems with people using EVC's. You will be absolutely fine!

 

[piperdown]

I was at WDW just over a month ago and used an EVC rented from an offsite vendor. Luckily, we're only a family of 3.

I understand and agree with the loading/unloading rules. However, personally, I hated the thought of passing up a long line of hot and tired people. It just didn't feel fair to me.

So this is what I did. If there was an existing line at the bus stop more than 15-20 people, I would hang back and not pull up to the loading area. I gave my family the choice of hanging back with me or getting in line for the bus and going on without me. Most times they hung back with me, but a few times at the end of a long day, they headed back to room without me.

I'm not saying my way is the right way. For me, it just felt like the fair thing to do.