ECV's - Leaisure Vehicles???

[Budshark]

While it's easy to get irritated or angry at people you see zooming around Disney or anywhere on an ECV, just remember that appearances aren't always everything and there may be an underlying need for them that you can't see.

I agree with this wholeheartedly - which is also why I think this message needs to get out and people who use ECVs need to help solve the issue. The problem comes when you see more and more people using them - and more and more people who also jump right out of them and run to the bench after getting priority seating and having everyone get out of their way out of respect. After seeing this issue over and over again, human nature is to begin to doubt the need of these devices for everyone except the most obvious needs. I agree its unfair - but it is the fault of the people who use them for leisure - while ALSO taking advantage of peoples concern and sensitivity.

If someone wants to use one for leisure and the rules and law allow it - fine. But if you are a leisure user, next time I offer to give up a seat, get out of your way, or otherwise provide accomodation, respectfully decline and say "I'm just using the ECV, I don't need it." That would be the moral and right thing to do.

Chris

 

[cmwade77]

U tgunk the problem everyone is having is not with people like you, but rather the people who rent them just to not have to walk,even though they have no problems and flat out say so. As for the poster with CRT, I would have insisted upon taking it in with me if I were in your shoes, at bare minimum ask for a wheel chair to transfer into, it is indeed a fair walk there for someone that needs their own ECV. I am indeed lucky that I do not need one, which is wy I get a GAC so as to hopefully be able to keep in at least good enough shape from needing one, even at Disney, it would not be a fun way to get around, don't get me wrong I would rather do that than not go, but I don't want to have to get one. As for the poster asking people with rented chairs/ecvs to transfer, I think that is a reasonable request, you can drive your chair down to the seat transfer and someone could park it for you so the ECV/Wheelchair spot was available for someone that can't transfer at all, then after the show someone can get the chair for you and bring it to you.

 

[emerymt]

I agree with this wholeheartedly - which is also why I think this message needs to get out and people who use ECVs need to help solve the issue. The problem comes when you see more and more people using them - and more and more people who also jump right out of them and run to the bench after getting priority seating and having everyone get out of their way out of respect. After seeing this issue over and over again, human nature is to begin to doubt the need of these devices for everyone except the most obvious needs. I agree its unfair - but it is the fault of the people who use them for leisure - while ALSO taking advantage of peoples concern and sensitivity.

If someone wants to use one for leisure and the rules and law allow it - fine. But if you are a leisure user, next time I offer to give up a seat, get out of your way, or otherwise provide accomodation, respectfully decline and say "I'm just using the ECV, I don't need it." That would be the moral and right thing to do.

Chris

Thank you for redirecting this thread back to where it belongs- discussing the leisure use of ECVs. I would agree with you that the honor system is the best way to sort this out, but I am not holding out much hope for that happening. It's simple Econ 101. If a desirable item is introduced at a low cost, with no restrictions, people will use it. The ECV companies have told folks what they want to hear, and thus, they don't feel like they're abusing anything. Those that truly need assistance will be crowded out.

This is going to get worse until a prescription for the use of ECV's is required. Since that is illegal, it's going to be a long wait- and there are valid reasons why it may not be a good idea, anyway. Meanwhile, I personally will continue to do what I have always done- not use handicapped seating, parking or ECV's unless I have to. Just because I can, doesn't mean I should, either.

 

[shovan]

Well I have my own scooter. Decorated in nice disney stickers. I will still remember going to dinner at Cinderallas Castle and being told to park my scooter that is was not a long walk. They saw my scooter as a convience vehical not a need. We were one of the first in the room to have our pic with Cinderalla. Since I really could not stand well I sat along the side. As time went on more and more people fill up the line for their pic. I was so frustrated because the only way to get a pic was to have my DH stand in line while I sat at the side. This was not handled well I think. Next time I will take my scooter in to wait in line. And after wards put it out side before we go up to eat.

Also I was just shocked how the CM's treated the scooter. When we got back from dinner there were a few rows of Strollers in front of my scooter. If I had been by myself there is no way I could have moved all of the strollers. I must say this is the only place in MK that my mobility device was not treated with repsect. And from then on when waiting for a dinner reservation I would not get out of my scooter till we were seated at dinner because of the limited seating in the waiting areas.

But I wonder if people did not use them as leisure vehicals would they respect the scooter users more.

No, I don't think it makes any difference to the CM's at Cindy's Castle. They are the worst that we have encountered! My DH is in a wheelchair not a scooter. We were made to wait almost an hour to be seated upstairs. Everyone else who had been in line with us, had gone up long before. We asked several times & they just kept telling us that we had to wait for an accessible seat to open up. I finally had to go back out to the hostess stand & demand they call upstairs to get us seated. Then we get up there & more than half of the restaurant is accessible. I told them upstairs how long we waited & they said someone downstairs messed up!

BTW Our insurance company is treating my DH's new power chair has a liesure item. They are refusing to pay for it, they say it is considered a luxury item because it has a power seat that goes up & down!!!!!

 

[cmwade77]

That is awful on both accounts, if I ever wait more than 20 minutes beyond my ADR time I ask to speak to a manager, as that is the whole point of ADRs, I don't care if you are in a wheelchair or not, you shouldn't have to wait more than 10-15 minutes after your ADR time at most, 20 minutes is my limit, of course this doesn't apply if there are circumstances beyond the restaurant's control.

 

[Tiiiigergirl]

This thread is most troubling to me. I think it is bad enough when those whose lives have not been touched by disability attack the disabled community but when we start second guessing each other.......

I speak as the daughter of a man who is a quad.
The mother of a son with autism and tourette's syndrome.
And the owner of an unknown disability that is causing my legs to lose their functioning.

I plan on taking my patience and good will with my sun screen next week to WDW. And if I think someone does or doesn't deserve something I'll just overlook it. I've learned that I don't get everything (although I sometimes think I should! ) The older I get, the more I've decided that it is my attitude that drives my experience in the world.

 

[SueM in MN]

BTW Our insurance company is treating my DH's new power chair has a liesure item. They are refusing to pay for it, they say it is considered a luxury item because it has a power seat that goes up & down!!!!!

Are they refusing to pay for the whole power wheelchair or just the power seat?
If the therapist and equipment people can't come up with enough medical justification for the power seat, then the seat is considered to not be a medically necessary item. If it's not "medically necessary", it's considered a luxury and insurance won't pay for that feature.

DD just got a new power wheelchair and they would have been able to come up with enough justification for a power seat because she is very short and being able to lower the seat would make transfers easier. But having the chair remain that low would not be functional at tables because the table would be at mid chest height. As it turned out, she didn't get the power seat because the lowest height wasn't low enough and we opted to just get a fixed height seat at the level of her old power wheelchair seat.

 

[allie_to_you]

If someone reads this thread and then doesn't rent a scooter because others think they are cheating. That is just sad. Please remember that whether you have hidden of visable disability. If you need to rent a scooter. Do it, your trip is going to be much more magical without pain.Connie

Amen! Who cares what other people think. If you go to Disney, or anywhere else, how likely are you to ever see these people again. If someone is so rude as to make comments or to even think bad things just because you are in a scooter/ecv, then let them. They don't know you or your situation.

Now if you are just using the scooter/ecv to avoid standing or take up a space where someone else really does need it, then shame on you, but otherwise, do what you gotta do and don't worry what other people think

I think you guys are reading WAY too much into this.
If you need to use an ECV in Disney, by all means use one.
If you have to still have it through a queue, by all means stay in it.
If you cannot transfer to a seat next to handicapped seating, by all means, stay in your ECV.
If it is not difficult to transfer into the seat next to the handicapped seating and have someone park the ECV behind you, please do so. It frees up an end spot for someone who has to stay in their chair/ECV. I have seen many people do this.
I think that's all we are trying to say.

Very well said!

 

[cmwade77]

The ones that I was talking about and I thnk others on here were too are those that rent them and then flat out say that they don't need them, that they got it to skip lines. And yes I have had a few tell me this, this also takes away from someone that does need it being able to rent one. Again if you have a hidden disability by all means rent one, I am the last to judge unless someone in an ECV/chair is saying to me they don't beed it with words, then I might judge a little, I wouldn't listen to what others are saying about them, as I know all too well about hidden disabilities.

 

[hematite153]

The ones that I was talking about and I thnk others on here were too are those that rent them and then flat out say that they don't need them, that they got it to skip lines. And yes I have had a few tell me this,....

I think that these people are few and far between. It doesn't take long (maybe an hour or so) before one realizes that "skipping" the lines usually means a LONGER wait than standing in the "regular" line. So, someone who is renting an ecv to "cheat the system" isn't likely to repeat the experience.

If they do repeat the experience then they likely have a hidden disability that they do not wish to discuss. We are planning a large family trip for 2008 and my DFIL really should get an ecv. If he does, he is likely to say that he doesn't need it. However, I know that he cannot survive WDW without one. He might be able to tour for 2 hours per day but that would be it and his feet would be in BAD shape from trying.

For people with hidden disabilities, WDW can be REALLY far from normal activities.

As for transferring at shows, my DW could transfer from the wc she uses to make WDW possible. However, even though I am able to park the chair after she transfers and then bring it back the CM generally tell us not to do this. The standard seems to be that if she can get out before entering the theatre then they welcome her transferring. But, these walks add up and make everything more difficult--eventually making the 4 step transfers too much. If she can't transfer until close to the bench, then the CMs ask her not to.

After reading this thread, we will try to insist on making the transfer. However, please don't blame people for being unable to walk all the way in and out and/or unable to transfer.

Plus, as snowwhite was saying, the "normal" seating that they ask one to transfer to can involve climbing to bleacher seats and long walks.

When we saw Nemo during its soft opening, they asked my DW if she could transfer. When she said 'yes' they had us follow them to a different door. Then told her to leave her chair there, and had us walk a long way through the theatre and then up about 10 flights of stairs. (We ended up sitting closer to the regular doors than to the doors we had come in.) After the show, we had no assistance, she had to walk out with the regular crowds and it took at least 10 minutes for me to figure out what they had done with her chair. The result? The next time we see Nemo, she will evaluate her walking ability more carefully before agreeing to transfer.)\

 

[KPeveler]

see, my idea of "transferring" is wheeling up to the end seat in a theatre (like in philharmagic) and then being able to put the wheelchair to the side, and (this only works if someone is with you) the person you are with brings the chair back to you. it does not work if you have to walk 10 minutes or climb stairs. that is not transferring, that is walking!!

 

[cmwade77]

I think that these people are few and far between. It doesn't take long (maybe an hour or so) before one realizes that "skipping" the lines usually means a LONGER wait than standing in the "regular" line. So, someone who is renting an ecv to "cheat the system" isn't likely to repeat the experience.

I know they wait longer, but at Disneyland I have had many claim this, I really can't say that I have seen any repeat it and I am sure it is because of this, but my point is there are people that do this.

As far as the transferring at the Nemo show goes, I would have said I am sorry but I can't leave the chair here, I can wheel up next to a seat and transfer then another member of my party can take the wheel chair out. I personally can't handle stairs, even though I don't need an ECV, so I would have said so. Also I should note that I am far more familiar with wheelchairs at Disneyland than at WDW, so some of these things are good to note as my mom will most likely need an ECV when we go in August. You see at Disneyland they prefer you to transfer and take the chair out and have someone get it at the end, the exception being any 3-D show, they simply have you put it to the side so it is not in the way.

For people with hidden disabilities, WDW can be REALLY far from normal activities.

I agree with this completely, please do not think I am trying to discourage anyone from getting one, I just want people to think about it first, I mean if an ECV isn't going to help you, please do not get one, if it is, please, please get one.

If they do repeat the experience then they likely have a hidden disability that they do not wish to discuss. We are planning a large family trip for 2008 and my DFIL really should get an ecv. If he does, he is likely to say that he doesn't need it. However, I know that he cannot survive WDW without one. He might be able to tour for 2 hours per day but that would be it and his feet would be in BAD shape from trying.

As I said I know the ones that say they are trying to cheat the system end up not repeating the experience, but others do and it just bugs me that people try to cheat, we get the assistance we need because we NEED it, so I guess the kist of this whole thread has been:

If you need assistance (GAC, Wheelchair, ECV, etc.) please, please get it, if you absolutely do not need assistance please do not try to cheat the system, you will wait longer and others that truly need that assistance may not be able to get it because you tried to cheat the system.

 

[emerymt]

Plus, as snowwhite was saying, the "normal" seating that they ask one to transfer to can involve climbing to bleacher seats and long walks.

When we saw Nemo during its soft opening, they asked my DW if she could transfer. When she said 'yes' they had us follow them to a different door. Then told her to leave her chair there, and had us walk a long way through the theatre and then up about 10 flights of stairs. (We ended up sitting closer to the regular doors than to the doors we had come in.) After the show, we had no assistance, she had to walk out with the regular crowds and it took at least 10 minutes for me to figure out what they had done with her chair. The result? The next time we see Nemo, she will evaluate her walking ability more carefully before agreeing to transfer.)\

You know what this sounds like to me? This sounds like Disney is already fed up with ECV users and doesn't want to take the time and trouble to tell who needs them and who doesn't. Therefore, they treat all of us like we don't need them. As I said before, this whole issue will not be worked out in favor of the disabled. Disney's hands are tied and this is how they are reacting.

Have the seating issues at Nemo changed? I feel like I will have to give the CM's the third degree now just to find out what I need to do and if I can handle it. Would the Passporter for people with disabilities have this kind of information- or the Disney Guide? I thought I could just wing it, since I can't ride most of the rides anyway, but now I am not so sure.

 

[cmwade77]

After reading this thread, we will try to insist on making the transfer. However, please don't blame people for being unable to walk all the way in and out and/or unable to transfer.

All I ask is making the honest effort, really, I know with my mom she will be able to walk in/out without too much difficulty shows, but I know many can not, I couldn't do what the CMs at Nemo asked you to and I again I do not need an ECV, yes I can do some stairs, but to do like your situation doing so all day would take it's toll on me, meaning I wouldn't be able to stay as long, which would not be fun for me. We will also try to transfer as much as possible, but frm what everyone is saying we will see how much that is feasible, I know at Disneyland it would be, sounds like WDW is a bit different, which doesn't make much sense.

 

[hematite153]

see, my idea of "transferring" is wheeling up to the end seat in a theatre (like in philharmagic) and then being able to put the wheelchair to the side, and (this only works if someone is with you) the person you are with brings the chair back to you. it does not work if you have to walk 10 minutes or climb stairs. that is not transferring, that is walking!!

Agreed. Generally speaking, this is what my DW and I try to do. But, we are rarely successful. Most CMs tell us that she either needs to get out at the entrance or stay in the wc. As I said, we will try harder to make transfers happen on our next visit.

 

[tmbrea]

I've reserved on to be delivered to CBR in june when we will be there. My DH is >400# and already had two knee surgeries so will find the amount of walking required to be very difficult. We already know he won't ride most of the rides, but he can wait in line on his feet and walk to seats for the shows. Does anyone know if a heavy duty ECV will fit through the hotel door? We really don't need a handicap room and I would hate to take it away from someone who really does. He can get around and manage short distance walking ok, just not the miles and miles required for touring the parks.

 

[Schmeck]

People need to stay in their ECVs/wheelchairs in a show situation for safety reasons - if you have to evacuate, it's going to be a disaster with everyone trying to get out while others are trying to get to/in their vehicle. Also, just having the vehicle in the aisle area is a hazard. It's blocking exit areas, as I doubt WDW planned for a half dozen ECVs to be parked inside of an attraction.

From most of these posts, it sounds like people want a caste system of disability - my kids are more disabled, so they deserve to not have to wait, etc, but you aren't as disabled so you should wait, etc.

 

[Michigan]

People need to stay in their ECVs/wheelchairs in a show situation for safety reasons - if you have to evacuate, it's going to be a disaster with everyone trying to get out while others are trying to get to/in their vehicle. Also, just having the vehicle in the aisle area is a hazard. It's blocking exit areas, as I doubt WDW planned for a half dozen ECVs to be parked inside of an attraction.

From most of these posts, it sounds like people want a caste system of disability - my kids are more disabled, so they deserve to not have to wait, etc, but you aren't as disabled so you should wait, etc.

I didn't say that what I said is if you are in a RENTED ECV or wheelchair you don't need one for everyday use and therefore should be able to sit in a seat leaving the seats open for those that don't have a choice.

Disney doesn't leave them in the isles they are parked at the exits.

Like I said before if you are in a ECV you have to exit it to ride the rides because the wheelchair cars only fit manual chairs.

 

[SueM in MN]

Does anyone know if a heavy duty ECV will fit through the hotel door? We really don't need a handicap room and I would hate to take it away from someone who really does. He can get around and manage short distance walking ok, just not the miles and miles required for touring the parks.

The doors to get into all the rooms are the same size.
What might be different comparing the wheelchair room to the other rooms is the size of the doors inside the room (like to get into the bathroom).

 

[SueM in MN]

I'm closing this thread at this point.
Even though it may have seemed negative at points, a lot of good points were made.

I don't have time right now to post a long closing statement, but I will later on today.
For now, I'll just say, it all boils down to necessity VS choice/option.