Elder Care Questions

chiefmickeymouse

Sarcastic, silly and socially awkward
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
I'm looking for advice and resources to help my in-laws. My DFIL has Parkinson's disease and various other health issues. He can walk short distances with a walker. They were doing okay and then DMIL fell and broke several bones. Now neither of them can drive or even walk on their own. I am here for about a week to help them, but it's looking like a long haul because she needs surgery on her collar bone, and both are over 80 years old. There are three adult children, but none are available to provide constant care.

DMIL is still very mentally capable of running their lives, but at this time she isn't physically capable. I am thinking they need someone to come in several times a day and help them, but I know that can be very expensive. They aren't well off, but have military insurance, medicare and some type of long term care insurance than they won't let me see the policy for. One family member suggested calling a hospice care, but no one is in such dire shape that we think they are at the end of their life.

I have seen a few threads on here from people caring for elderly parents and was wondering if anyone had any practical advice for us.
 
Some things off the top of my head.

There are now some Caregiving Apps available to help make communication and schedules easier for families and friends. I might try to get one of those up and running so others can help, too.

I would perhaps talk to them about thinking about Assisted Living for the two of them, before things get worse and/or they get older, etc.

I remember someone posting here not too long ago that there is some little known assistance for veterans going into assisted living. The LTC policy may help with that, also. I'm not talking nursing home, but a home type living where they can have help available for their needs, and meals, activities, etc. They could also consider something like a reverse mortgage, too.

Good luck. The 80s can be tough.
 
Hospice is not only for end of life. There are hospice companies that also do home health. I really feel for you and your family and hope you can work it out.
 
I'm looking for advice and resources to help my in-laws. My DFIL has Parkinson's disease and various other health issues. He can walk short distances with a walker. They were doing okay and then DMIL fell and broke several bones. Now neither of them can drive or even walk on their own. I am here for about a week to help them, but it's looking like a long haul because she needs surgery on her collar bone, and both are over 80 years old. There are three adult children, but none are available to provide constant care.

DMIL is still very mentally capable of running their lives, but at this time she isn't physically capable. I am thinking they need someone to come in several times a day and help them, but I know that can be very expensive. They aren't well off, but have military insurance, medicare and some type of long term care insurance than they won't let me see the policy for. One family member suggested calling a hospice care, but no one is in such dire shape that we think they are at the end of their life.

I have seen a few threads on here from people caring for elderly parents and was wondering if anyone had any practical advice for us.

With the situation you describe they need 24/7 constant care at the moment in absence of someone living with them.

I would say it is not realistic to have someone "just come in" several times a day in their current condition.

Since they are your in-laws you are going to have to force their children to get together and talk about what they want to do with this unfortunately.

Does anyone have Medical POA with your inlaws? If not that would be a first step. Someone has to step up at this point and drive this.

Bottom line from your description they are no longer capable of being in their own home alone at this point.

Your MIL's recovery may take months and even then she will not be 100% the same and may be incapable of caring for your FIL anymore.

Sending you hugs. Tough situation to be in. :hug::hug::hug:
 
be prepared-that collar bone issue can be the beginning of decreased capabilities on your mil's part.

my mom broke her collar bone in her early 80's. the surgery and recovery were uncomfortable, the physical therapy afterward was not terribly pleasant. you don't realize how much elderly people rely on upper body strength to get in and out of bed and chairs. the broken collar bone made assistance necessary (despite getting her a lift chair recliner). this put more stress on her legs and hips to compensate which aggrevated arthritis. the next break was her shoulder a few years later, and finaly her hip immediately before she passed.

I WISH we could have forced her to go into 24/7 nursing care when she had the first break to recover but she would have none of it (and medical power of attorneys do no good if the patient is 'competant' to make their own decisions-and it's next to impossible to get a doctor to deem someone incompetent). she ended up in assisted living a couple years later, but she realy needed much more help than those places provide (despite what their materials claim). when someone needs help getting in and out of chairs/bed/to the bathroom, shouldn't be operating a stovetop LET ALONE is trying to care for another disabled person-they both need to be in a safe/supervised living situation.

I agree that the adult children need to step up and figure this out-it's hard being the dil in this situation (been there-done that, and you're always the 'bad guy' in it). if push comes to shove and they won't do it, and the elderly in-laws refuse to address the situation you may need to call adult protective services to do an evaluation.

take care of yourself, caretaker stress/burnout is dangerous.
 
As a nurse who primarily cares for patients with ortho issues, I understand where you are coming from.

What it sounds like they need is a nursing home in which they can room together. At this point it sounds as though their care is even above that of assistant living.

One trick of the trade for me is to never mention nursing home. The words really are a negative by most everyone in the population. What we do at the hospital is mention the necessity of "rehab." Now, many people just need rehab and will be able to go back home. Others may need it to move onto assistant living, others find that they are more comfortable (both mentally and physically) in rehab and transfer over to the living facilities.

You can also try to bring a doctor into this conversation. Numerous times myself, the shift before me, family, discharge planners, and physical therapy have said to the patient they cannot return home without further complications and the patient has declined, but once the doctor walks in the room and says the exact same thing (because we've told him/her to say the exact same thing) then the patient seems to understand the seriousness of the situation.

Good luck.
 
They need to let you see that long term care policy to see what it covers.
Sounds like they need a little help. Do you have Board and Care homes in your area? In California they can have no more than 6 residents, and provide 24/7 assistance in a home type setting. Far more comfortable than a larger Care Home or Nursing home.
 
Be very careful in what terms you use, not just because of conversational prejudice, but be aware that terms are a minefield in eldercare, because what something is called can determine whether or not it is eligible for 3rd party payment. For instance, not being formally admitted to a hospital, even though you are staying overnight for multiple nights, means that Medicare will not pay for almost any of the services received. Medicare does pay for some rehab, but never for more than 100 contiguous days, and even then, only when some REALLY byzantine requirements are met.

If your MIL is still mentally sharp, then assisted living with some extra rehab services is probably a good compromise for her. For people of limited means, entering a nursing home is generally going to end up being a one way trip, because the expense is so great that it almost always wipes them out financially if both need services simultaneously. One thing MUST happen immediately, however; she MUST get out any and all health and long-term insurance policies and have them gone over by whoever is coordinating their care. If MIL expects to do it herself without aid, someone (preferably a physician) needs to point out that pain medication can often cause temporary confusion and inattention; so she needs a backup person reading everything that she signs right now so that she doesn't agree to pay for things that her insurance is supposed to cover, and to make sure that all filing deadlines are met.

If either of them is a wartime veteran, the VA does pay for some assisted living expenses. The process to get the benefit is long, so help your MIL get on that right away if they are eligible.

My MIL is going on 9 months right now since she had to leave her home. The first 3 months she was in and out of the hospital every few days, while they figured out what was causing her to fall, then gave her rehab for her broken bones (including her collarbone and 5 ribs). She doesn't have a Medicare B policy, and it can be nearly a full-time job coordinating her benefits and dealing with all of the claims. We have already filled a 3 drawer filing cabinet with paperwork related to her various medical bills, and there are more every day. Her home is on the market, but if it does not sell soon she will be forced to forfeit it's value and apply for Medicaid, which will require that she change facilities to a residential skilled nursing facility, aka, a "nursing home". In this state, Medicaid won't pay for facilities that are classed as assisted living. Her current place, while clean and well-serviced, is one of the least expensive in my city, and her expenses there are $3600/mo, which includes her meals, but not her meds; her insurance pays separately for those. Her income just isn't enough to cover it all; she has to dip into savings, and because of all of the medical bills from last fall, the savings are dwindling fast.

Right now she is in an assisted living facility that offers extra a la carte services. She has nursing staff to monitor her medications for her and check in with her via intercom 4X daily, a physical therapy practice on-site so that she can go to treatment by rolling her walker down the hall, and helpers who come in and help her to change and dress, and to help her bathe 2X weekly. All meals are provided in the dining room; though for an extra charge they could be brought to her room and served there. Her private room is a studio, it looks rather like a room in an extended stay motel; with a small kitchenette with a fridge and microwave. She also has a private bathroom. In a nursing home, she would have to have a roommate and share a bath, something that is normally a huge roadblock, but which isn't so bad if the two persons sharing the room are a couple. (The tricky part of that being that many facilities will not allow couples to occupy the same room if they do not both need the same level of care.)

Good luck; it's a long, hard road.
 
Medicare does pay for some rehab, but never for more than 100 contiguous days, and even then, only when some REALLY byzantine requirements are met.

Let me start by saying that I have been a ALF director for the past 5 years.

Medicare will only pay 100% for the first 20 days, day 21 through 100 they pay 80% while the remaining 20% is paid either out of pocket or through a secondary insurance. But you are right, there has to be a need, the rehab will not keep someone the full 100 days unless necessary.

You are right that they would not qualify for Hospice care. Even if they did, only those patients who are actively dying qualify for what is called "Crisis Care".

Your mother in law should qualify for home health due to the recent fall as well as broken bones. This will allow her to have a nurse come to the home to see her as well as physical therapy. They should also send a home health aide to assist with bathing.

As far as Medical POA is concerned, unless she is deemed incompetent, it is just a piece of paper.

My suggestion would be an ALF and I would stay away from Group Homes like the plauge. They only have 8 residents at a time but they have very little to no oversight by the government. The ALF is also going to provide more activities that are suitable for your parents than a nursing home is. I have yet to find a nursing home that can provide the same acitivity program as a ALF and I have been in probably 50% of the nursing home in Dallas.

And I would suggest find an ALF that you like and having your MIL go over for lunch or an activity. This will allow her to acclimate to it without moving her in. I have seen many people who swear they will never move in change their mind after meeting the other residents and seeing all it has to offer.

Again, this is just my two cents. If you have any questions feel free to PM me.
 
I'm dealing with the same issues with my parents. Here's what I found out in the last few months:

If they are in a nursing home and have Tricare for Life, Tricare will pay the amount Medicare won't pay for the first 100 days. They will also pay for unlimited days as long as skilled nursing is required.

If they only need assistance (either living in an assisted living facility or help at home), then there's also a veteran program called The Aid & Attendance. If I remember correctly, if they have less than $80,000 in assets (excluding their home). My father receives approximately $1800 per month.

Per the website, A&A pays:

Increased monthly pension amount may be added to your monthly pension amount if you meet one of the following conditions:
•You require the aid of another person in order to perform personal functions required in everyday living, such as bathing, feeding, dressing, attending to the wants of nature, adjusting prosthetic devices, or protecting yourself from the hazards of your daily environment
•You are bedridden, in that your disability or disabilities requires that you remain in bed apart from any prescribed course of convalescence or treatment
•You are a patient in a nursing home due to mental or physical incapacity
•Your eyesight is limited to a corrected 5/200 visual acuity or less in both eyes; or concentric contraction of the visual field to 5 degrees or less.
 
I'm dealing with the same issues with my parents. Here's what I found out in the last few months:

If they are in a nursing home and have Tricare for Life, Tricare will pay the amount Medicare won't pay for the first 100 days. They will also pay for unlimited days as long as skilled nursing is required.

If they only need assistance (either living in an assisted living facility or help at home), then there's also a veteran program called The Aid & Attendance. If I remember correctly, if they have less than $80,000 in assets (excluding their home). My father receives approximately $1800 per month.

Per the website, A&A pays:

Increased monthly pension amount may be added to your monthly pension amount if you meet one of the following conditions:
•You require the aid of another person in order to perform personal functions required in everyday living, such as bathing, feeding, dressing, attending to the wants of nature, adjusting prosthetic devices, or protecting yourself from the hazards of your daily environment
•You are bedridden, in that your disability or disabilities requires that you remain in bed apart from any prescribed course of convalescence or treatment
•You are a patient in a nursing home due to mental or physical incapacity
•Your eyesight is limited to a corrected 5/200 visual acuity or less in both eyes; or concentric contraction of the visual field to 5 degrees or less.

DH and I recently attended an informational session on Aid & Attendance. Neither of us needs it now, but forewarned is forearmed. In addition to the info noted above, here are a few points covered at the session.

- The veteran must have served at 90 days on active duty during a declared state of war. There is no requirement for the veteran to have seen combat.

- A surviving spouse must have been married to the veteran at the time of the veteran's death.

- Spouses of living veterans who meet the service requirement are also eligible for the A&A benefit.

- Unlike Medicaid, there is no look-back for assets. When determining eligibility for Medicaid benefits, assets held three years before filing for benefits are counted. With A&A, the claimant can hold his/her assets up until the day before applying for A&A. (Note: This may change in 2015 or 2016.)

- Income and asset requirements are not set in stone. Individual circumstances may apply.

These are some of the points I took away from the session (I took notes). If anyone has additional/conflicting info, I'd be glad to learn of it.

ETA: Care for the claimant does not have to be provided by a health care professional. A family member providing the ADLs (Aid to Daily Living) noted above counts toward meeting the requirements.

Queen Colleen
 
Op here. Thanks for all your responses, this is the first chance I've had to read them. I got hold of the long term care insurance policy and spoke to the insurance agent. She is supposed to come over and talk to them about their policy this week. It covers $3500 a month for three years, but their is a 90 day exclusion, which is out of pocket.

I've tried to get ahold of someone at the VA but no one has returned my calls. He did serve in wartime. I'm not sure who to call next with the va, no one answers the phone.

I've decided to just collect the information and pass it on to my husband and the other children. We are currently trying to work out coverage for next week, when I have to leave for family obligations of my own.

I'll keep you posted when I get a minute.
 
OP here with an update. DMIL fainted in the bathroom two days ago and I had to call an ambulance. They admitted her to the hospital and she's still there. They haven't found a cause for the fainting. The doctor has mentioned a rehab center. She has been caring for DFIL,so this pushes everything to a more urgent category. I hope they can find some sort of solution this weekend. We have people lined out to stay with them for the next week and a half, but that won't be enough.
 
chiefmickeymouse said:
OP here with an update. DMIL fainted in the bathroom two days ago and I had to call an ambulance. They admitted her to the hospital and she's still there. They haven't found a cause for the fainting. The doctor has mentioned a rehab center. She has been caring for DFIL,so this pushes everything to a more urgent category. I hope they can find some sort of solution this weekend. We have people lined out to stay with them for the next week and a half, but that won't be enough.

I'm so sorry things have turned out this way. Id say rehab is the way to go.
 
OP here with an update. DMIL fainted in the bathroom two days ago and I had to call an ambulance. They admitted her to the hospital and she's still there. They haven't found a cause for the fainting. The doctor has mentioned a rehab center. She has been caring for DFIL,so this pushes everything to a more urgent category. I hope they can find some sort of solution this weekend. We have people lined out to stay with them for the next week and a half, but that won't be enough.

This is EXACTLY what my MIL was doing, and the same thing was said, that they could not figure out why, even after 4 hospitalizations and over $260K in treatment. Finally, someone thought to check her prolactin levels immediately after a "faint" and discovered that it was indeed a small seizure. Previous EEGs had not shown anything odd, but those prolactin levels were sky-high. They then put her on anti-seizure meds, and she hasn't "fainted" since. If nothing else shows an answer, ask about this. The trick is that it clears very quickly, so the test has to be done at the right moment. Insist on finding a cause, because little seizures can cause vascular dementia, which is what has also started to happen to MIL.
 

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