Elementary Education Teachers - Would you recommend your career to a young adult?

[Magpie]

I would agree that it is a difficult and noble profession (especially in today's parenting climate) and I know that a GOOD teacher is worth their weight in gold. But my primary point was that I seem to sense a craving for accolades and unending gratitude by ~some~ teachers on forums such as this one. However I see it as any other job. A teacher is paid to teach the way their superiors tell them to teach. Not the way they themselves think is the best way to teach.

I would imagine the challenges you mentioned in your post are present in many professions. In my county and in bordering counties a teaching job is a HIGHLY SOUGHTAFTER by many graduates. Teaching salaries here are considered to be very favorable. Sadly many of those seeking such a position will never find it because of the fierce competition. So I find it odd that so many teachers in other parts of the country are not as happy with their job. Is there really a large difference in teachers' compensation from one region of the country to another?

And the bolded is why I've chosen not to become a "proper" teacher, but instead tutor children on an individual, private basis. Because after many years of working with kids, I know there's no one, single, proscribed formula that will work with everyone, and I want the freedom to be able to adapt the curriculum as necessary, in order to meet the needs of that specific child.

Heck, we were just discussing this very concept in a meeting at my church, in which we were discussing our sex ed curriculum. None of us are expected - or required! - to follow the curriculum word-for-word. We all understand that each group of fifth graders will be coming to us at different levels of understanding and readiness, and we have to be flexible in how we deliver the curriculum. No two groups of kids are the same, so we can hardly expect to teach them in the same way.

 

[DopeyDame]

And my point is that most teachers aren't craving accolades, but hoping for someone to tell them that the hard work they are doing actually is making a difference. And it probably wouldn't even be necessary without all of the political nonsense. I think the appreciation stuff started around the same time as No Child Left Behind (shudder)-mostly parents wanting to make us feel good when our government was trying to make us look bad-basically use us for political gain. Since I'd guess 98% of us aren't in it for the money, I don't think the monetary compensation makes up for the way we're made to feel every day. Although I do get a wave of calm every night when I light my fancy cigar with a hundred Maybe that feeling of failure wouldn't matter so much if we didn't feel like the future of the world depended on our success. It's not enough to make me find another job, but it does weigh on you.

And that right there - hoping for someone to tell them that their hard work is making a difference - is why I think some teachers end up dissatisfied. If you go into *any* job with those expectations, you're bound to end up disappointed. Teaching is a job - that's why they have to pay people to do it. And your principal and Superintendent and BoE and county council and mayor and President all also have their own jobs to do.
In the vast majority of jobs - including teaching, I would think - it can be really hard to see how what you do will make a difference. Most workers are cogs in the wheel. Most people don't see the immediate impact of their work. You do your job as best you can and you get paid for it. As grown ups, that should be it. No need for someone to come by and tell you you're doing a good job.
I'm guessing you'll enjoy your job a lot more and feel a lot less stressed if you let yourself off the hook. The future of the world doesn't depend on any one individual's success, not even teachers.

 

[nugov2]

I don't know what schools get those breaks but I want them! I get 1 week at Christmas, 2 days for Thanksgiving, 2 days in February, a week in April. 8 weeks in summer, 9 on a good snow year. Other holidays outside of those are usually Columbus day, veterans day, mlk, and memorial day. And that's the reward for not being able to breathe for the 187 (official) days I do work Hours of work at home at night and on weekends. No coffee breaks, no "out to lunch", no pee breaks, expensive disney trips-all trade offs! Did I mention expensive Disney trips?

You don't have plan periods or a lunch? Do your students attend specials such as art, music, recess, gym or are those classes part of your teaching load? I know some schools do not and that gives you less plan time, but even my inner city teacher friends with the hardest conditions IMO still have a 20 minute lunch and a 20 minute plan period and are free to use the bathroom if needed. We also were allowed to use the bathroom at any time when teaching. You just had to alert another staff member to monitor your class. I was pregnant while teaching and it would have been a bad situation with no bathroom. I can't imagine working where bathroom breaks are not allowed.

I think it is these post again, that make it seem as teachers are martyrs. I find it hard to believe you spend hours every night and weekend doing work at home. So you spend an additional 14 hours minimum a week outside the class? What grade is this? Is this year round or only a few times a year? I see people complaining about all the additional testing, why not do work while they are testing?

Even my first couple of years teaching where everything was planned from scratch didn't require that much additional time. I usually arrived to school an hour early, stayed 30 minutes to clean my class up and spent a few days a week at home doing work. I used my class time effectively though. If the kids were testing, I was grading papers. I used my plan periods to plan and not talk in the lounge like many of my colleagues. I arrived early to get a solid hour of work done. I taught elementary though so I'm sure it can vary, but even my high school friends don't spend hours every night. More like hours every week outside of school.

Teaching is a difficult job, but again isn't unique to that profession. Many employees who are salary spend their days at their desk never leaving the office for lunch, coffee breaks etc either.

I think most teachers aren't craving praise any more than any other employee. Everyone feels better about their job and works harder when they feel appreciated. I feel like the negative spin on the field of education is a chicken or the egg situation. Do teachers get the negative public backlash because they so vocally and publicly complain all the time or did they start complaining because they feel abused by the public. I think it is both. I don't remember the negativity in the profession publicly 10-15 years ago.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

And my point is that most teachers aren't craving accolades, but hoping for someone to tell them that the hard work they are doing actually is making a difference. And it probably wouldn't even be necessary without all of the political nonsense. I think the appreciation stuff started around the same time as No Child Left Behind (shudder)-mostly parents wanting to make us feel good when our government was trying to make us look bad-basically use us for political gain. Since I'd guess 98% of us aren't in it for the money, I don't think the monetary compensation makes up for the way we're made to feel every day. Although I do get a wave of calm every night when I light my fancy cigar with a hundred Maybe that feeling of failure wouldn't matter so much if we didn't feel like the future of the world depended on our success. It's not enough to make me find another job, but it does weigh on you.

I do understand what your saying and I can appreciate your position. However, I also feel that the first half of the bolded sentence is contradictory to second half.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

I don't know what schools get those breaks but I want them! I get 1 week at Christmas, 2 days for Thanksgiving, 2 days in February, a week in April. 8 weeks in summer, 9 on a good snow year. Other holidays outside of those are usually Columbus day, veterans day, mlk, and memorial day. And that's the reward for not being able to breathe for the 187 (official) days I do work Hours of work at home at night and on weekends. No coffee breaks, no "out to lunch", no pee breaks, expensive disney trips-all trade offs! Did I mention expensive Disney trips?

My students get Columbus Day off but it's a Faculty In Service Day for us. That happens on many of the "holidays". 8 weeks off in the summer isn't always 8 week off either. I spent a week at a Teacher Conference with 14 hours days to earn recertification points this past July. Next summer my school is looking at having a 3 week summer boot camp to bring new middle schoolers up to speed in grammar. I have been asked to work the camp if it comes to fruition. Many teachers take classes over the summer to earn recertification points. Others work summer jobs to supplement their income.

 

[Mrs. Ciz]

Is there really a large difference in teachers' compensation from one region of the country to another?

Here is the salary scale of Mississippi, so you can compare salaries in your region to another region.
Level A = bachelors degree
Level AA = Masters
Level AAA = Specialist degree
Level AAAA = Doctorate degree

To get these steps up the teacher must put tons of time and money into getting advanced degrees.

I actually made more as a bank manager with 4 years of experience (right after college) 24 years ago than a Mississippi teacher with a Doctorate degree and 10 years of experience makes in 2016. The bank job was super easy compared to what I do now...but it bored the heck out of me.

http://www.mde.k12.ms.us/docs/school-financial-services/salary-schedule-for-fy17.pdf?sfvrsn=2

I taught elementary though so I'm sure it can vary, but even my high school friends don't spend hours every night. More like hours every week outside of school.

I think most teachers aren't craving praise any more than any other employee. Everyone feels better about their job and works harder when they feel appreciated. I feel like the negative spin on the field of education is a chicken or the egg situation. Do teachers get the negative public backlash because they so vocally and publicly complain all the time or did they start complaining because they feel abused by the public. I think it is both. I don't remember the negativity in the profession publicly 10-15 years ago.

I teach middle school English - grammar, writing, literature and vocabulary. High school and middle school English teachers have to grade gobs and gobs of writing, and it takes gobs and gobs of time. I dread the 4th quarter when all the research papers get turned in. I have to read thousands of pages - no lie!

I've often said I'd love to have an aide to help me with grading like the K, 1st, and 2nd teachers do. Even the 3rd, 4th and 5th teachers at my school have an aide that they share to help with grading. An aide could grade grammar and some literature stuff, but I'd still have to do all the writing. It comes with being an English teacher!

Because I work in a Catholic school, I don't have to deal with all the political garbage, which makes my job waaaaayyyy more enjoyable.

ETA: I typed this during my 15 minute lunch.

I try to really maximize my work time at school. I come in early, stay late, use my planning period. I try not to work on weekends unless absolutely necessary, but most weekends I have some things to do. My planning period at school is often eaten up making photocopies of worksheets, handouts, tests, quizzes, reading selections, etc.

 

[DawnM]

Is there really a large difference in teachers' compensation from one region of the country to another?

YES!

I currently live in NC and the pay is horrible compared to what i made in CA. The pay AND the benefits are much less.

 

[DawnM]

Your preferences, and your past jobs certainly play in a role in that ranking. For the folks here, vastly improved quality of life is one of the reasons they switch to teaching. Like I said, those with kids say the having the same schedule as their kids is huge. A week off at Thanksgiving, 2 weeks at Christmas, 1 week off for President's day week, and 1 week off for Easter, all holidays off and 9 weeks for summer and no getting called in at 2 am or on weekends anymore.

This above post doesn't sound like something from 50 years ago, you seem to state it as current.

It's been 50 years or so since I was in elementary school but Christmas break was 2 weeks even then. But like you do now, we got 2 days for Thanksgiving, not a week, Presidents Day, one day not a full week. They no longer take Columbus Day here, not politically correct.
Teachers in the San Juan district get one prep period 4 days a week, and every Thursday is a minimum day for the students so teachers can have more prep time. And being California, they HAVE to get a lunch break.

So just to clarify, things are different now than they used to be?

Ultimately, it doesn't MATTER WHICH days you get off, you still have to fulfill the state's min. requirements for days in school, which for most is 180 days of instruction.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

Here is the salary scale of Mississippi, so you can compare salaries in your region to another region.
Level A = bachelors degree
Level AA = Masters
Level AAA = Specialist degree
Level AAAA = Doctorate degree

To get these steps up the teacher must put tons of time and money into getting advanced degrees.

I actually made more as a bank manager with 4 years of experience (right after college) 24 years ago than a Mississippi teacher with a Doctorate degree and 10 years of experience in 2016. The bank job was super easy compared to what I do now...but it bored the heck out of me.

http://www.mde.k12.ms.us/docs/school-financial-services/salary-schedule-for-fy17.pdf?sfvrsn=2


I teach middle school English. High school and middle school English teachers have to grade gobs and gobs of writing, and it takes gobs and gobs of time. I dread the 4th quarter when all the research papers get turned in. I have to read thousands of pages - no lie!

Because I work in a Catholic school, I don't have to deal with all the political garbage, which makes my job waaaaayyyy more enjoyable.

ETA: I typed this during my 15 minute lunch.

Ok so I took a look at that link you posted and I was surprised at how much disparity there is in salaries from one region to the next. Those figures seem, ahem, less than desirable to me personally. As I previously posted, the median teachers salary in my county here in NY is $101,000. Of course I have no idea what the average cost of living in Mississippi is. I would imagine your dollars stretch a little farther then ours do here in NY. Just for comparison, what would you say the average annual property taxes would be on a single family home in your county? Let's go with a standard 3 bedroom/2 bath ranch home sitting on an average size lot for your area. Where I live the above house would be in the range of $7,500-$10,000/year property taxes with the lions share of that bill going to the school district. Again this is in an ~average~ neighborhood. If you want to live in a more desirable district it would go up from there.

Oh and forget it if you want to buy a newly built home with say 5BR/3Bath. You would be looking at $15,000 to start going right on up to $50,000 for the gated luxury communities. That's just annual taxes. No mortgage included.

 

[tvguy]

This above post doesn't sound like something from 50 years ago, you seem to state it as current.

It is current. This is why the folks I was referencing left.


So just to clarify, things are different now than they used to be?

Ultimately, it doesn't MATTER WHICH days you get off, you still have to fulfill the state's min. requirements for days in school, which for most is 180 days of instruction.

Yes, it is down to 180 days now, down from 190. But those minimum day Thursdays count as full days according to the state.

 

[alicat8]

I do understand what your saying and I can appreciate your position. However, I also feel that the first half of the bolded sentence is contradictory to second half.

It definitely is hahaha. I didn't word it right. My kids are sick and I feel like I haven't slept in a week. I don't even know what I was going for. I guess that I don't crave appreciation, but I don't want constant bashing. It is NICE to be appreciated, but I can do my job without it. I'd be ok just being left alone

I know this thread seems like a lot of complaining, but it's because most of us are being honest in response to the op question. These are the things they won't teach you in college. The reality behind "making a difference in the children's lives". It's not just a beautiful miraculous job with lots of time off. So we give the less beautiful side so others can decide of it's worth it.

 

[DawnM]

Yes, it is down to 180 days now, down from 190. But those minimum day Thursdays count as full days according to the state.

So it was 190 and the teachers were happy but now it is 180 and they left?

And if it was 50 years ago, yeah, they are long gone!

 

[tvguy]

So it was 190 and the teachers were happy but now it is 180 and they left?

And if it was 50 years ago, yeah, they are long gone!

It was 6 years ago, and who said they left? They are leaving other jobs to take teaching jobs.

 

[alicat8]

You don't have plan periods or a lunch? Do your students attend specials such as art, music, recess, gym or are those classes part of your teaching load? I know some schools do not and that gives you less plan time, but even my inner city teacher friends with the hardest conditions IMO still have a 20 minute lunch and a 20 minute plan period and are free to use the bathroom if needed. We also were allowed to use the bathroom at any time when teaching. You just had to alert another staff member to monitor your class. I was pregnant while teaching and it would have been a bad situation with no bathroom. I can't imagine working where bathroom breaks are not allowed.

I think it is these post again, that make it seem as teachers are martyrs. I find it hard to believe you spend hours every night and weekend doing work at home. So you spend an additional 14 hours minimum a week outside the class? What grade is this? Is this year round or only a few times a year? I see people complaining about all the additional testing, why not do work while they are testing?

Even my first couple of years teaching where everything was planned from scratch didn't require that much additional time. I usually arrived to school an hour early, stayed 30 minutes to clean my class up and spent a few days a week at home doing work. I used my class time effectively though. If the kids were testing, I was grading papers. I used my plan periods to plan and not talk in the lounge like many of my colleagues. I arrived early to get a solid hour of work done. I taught elementary though so I'm sure it can vary, but even my high school friends don't spend hours every night. More like hours every week outside of school.

Teaching is a difficult job, but again isn't unique to that profession. Many employees who are salary spend their days at their desk never leaving the office for lunch, coffee breaks etc either.

I think most teachers aren't craving praise any more than any other employee. Everyone feels better about their job and works harder when they feel appreciated. I feel like the negative spin on the field of education is a chicken or the egg situation. Do teachers get the negative public backlash because they so vocally and publicly complain all the time or did they start complaining because they feel abused by the public. I think it is both. I don't remember the negativity in the profession publicly 10-15 years ago.

I have prep and lunch, but my bladder isn't trained to them this early in the school year. I have 2 babies. This makes for close calls. I can't leave my kids alone. If I need to go, I have to hope to find someone else who isn't responsible for kids to come take over. My prep time is a mad rush to answer emails and phone calls, make copies, plan,grade,mandatory meetings, etc. I'm not complaining. I'm setting up a reality for someone who wants to know how it really feels! So I don't count my prep time as breathing time. It's more frantic than any other time of the day! Lunch is 30 minutes-usually peaceful.

I teach 6th grade language arts. We do workshop (reading and writing), which means I need to be teaching individual student and/or small group lessons every day. I basically need to teach about 30- 40 different lessons every day-very catered to individual needs. Some can be reused, and they're quick, but it's still a lot of planning.

Some parts of the year are definitely worse than others for grading. Right now is nuts. During "official" testing, we can't grade papers. We need to "actively monitor" (wander the room and make sure they know we're watching). So 14 hours of extra a week-probably not. Maybe 6 outside of school time? But it's a lot of time that's not factored into what people consider a cushy schedule.

 

[sk!mom]

Nope!

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Is there really a large difference in teachers' compensation from one region of the country to another?

There is a large difference in compensation from one region of New York to another. The medians range from a low of about 40k to a high of 140k. But those districts over 100k are mostly clustered in two counties. And in both of them, 100k doesn't go very far. It's pretty much just middle class. Nobody is getting rich teaching.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

There is a large difference in compensation from one region of New York to another. The medians range from a low of about 40k to a high of 140k. But those districts over 100k are mostly clustered in two counties. And in both of them, 100k doesn't go very far. It's pretty much just middle class. Nobody is getting rich teaching.

I assume your talking about Nassau and Suffolk (or perhaps Westchester)
Totally agree that 100k is not "rich" in either of these 2 counties. Although I personally know 2 married couples where both people are teachers. If you do the math and figure that each is good for 125k/year, that's 250k. Suddenly there situation looks a lot better! Couple that with some of the best job security around and a guaranteed pension at 55yo. Well then sign me up! I would take that deal any day of the week. I would put my years in teaching, then take our healthy pensions to a warmer climate where our dollars go much farther.

 

[nugov2]

I have prep and lunch, but my bladder isn't trained to them this early in the school year. I have 2 babies. This makes for close calls. I can't leave my kids alone. If I need to go, I have to hope to find someone else who isn't responsible for kids to come take over. My prep time is a mad rush to answer emails and phone calls, make copies, plan,grade,mandatory meetings, etc. I'm not complaining. I'm setting up a reality for someone who wants to know how it really feels! So I don't count my prep time as breathing time. It's more frantic than any other time of the day! Lunch is 30 minutes-usually peaceful.

I teach 6th grade language arts. We do workshop (reading and writing), which means I need to be teaching individual student and/or small group lessons every day. I basically need to teach about 30- 40 different lessons every day-very catered to individual needs. Some can be reused, and they're quick, but it's still a lot of planning.

Some parts of the year are definitely worse than others for grading. Right now is nuts. During "official" testing, we can't grade papers. We need to "actively monitor" (wander the room and make sure they know we're watching). So 14 hours of extra a week-probably not. Maybe 6 outside of school time? But it's a lot of time that's not factored into what people consider a cushy schedule.

I don't think 6 additional hours outside of school is a lot, but again beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Our school day was 7 hours and we were required 20 minutes before or after school in addition to that. I always was at school a minimum of 1hr and 20 min. plus my additional time at home. I never really tracked it, but it wasn't excessive...if it was 6 hours like you I'd be up 9 hours and 40 minutes average 5 days a week for 180 days(not taking into account my lunch, plan period/specials that were free to do what I wanted) Summers off (yes conferences and continuing education required, but still a good chunk of time off) in addition to the days off built into the school year. I still find those benefits unbeatable and worth working a little more than a typical 8 hour day. I think anyone who gets into a career and thinks it is only a set time frame with nothing additional over standard hours is in for a rude awakening though.

In our district a teacher in the class next door could come to the hall and monitor their class and mine so I could use the bathroom.

We also need to monitor standardize testing but a simple clipboard in the hand to grade papers while we monitor students was ok and I found it easy to do, but again a practice that may vary by district.

Bottom line if you enjoy working with kids, enjoy having a lot of vacation time and decent pay, teaching is for you. All the other stuff is crap that just falls into the category of having a job...it's never going to be sunshine and lollipops all day.

 

[scoutie]

I assume your talking about Nassau and Suffolk (or perhaps Westchester)
Totally agree that 100k is not "rich" in either of these 2 counties. Although I personally know 2 married couples where both people are teachers. If you do the math and figure that each is good for 125k/year, that's 250k. Suddenly there situation looks a lot better! Couple that with some of the best job security around and a guaranteed pension at 55yo. Well then sign me up! I would take that deal any day of the week. I would put my years in teaching, then take our healthy pensions to a warmer climate where our dollars go much farther.

Nobody in my area can retire at 55 with a guaranteed pension. The average age is 62-65 here. We are fairly certain our penisions (that we've paid into) won't be there because the state has been using them as a credit card. States are different. It's great that you would put your years into teaching provided you aren't the 40% that quit after the first five years. I'm set to retire at 65, but I'm not going to make it that long, and I was always one who said I was there for the long haul. Too much has changed, and it's not the kids. If I was in my old district in my former state, things would be different. I think it's a bad idea to say "summers off! Seven hours of work! You get to hang out with kids!" because it's not reality, and anyone who goes in thinking it's easy is going to waste a lot of money on a teaching degree. The bottom line is the poster asked if she should be encouraging her daughter to be a teacher. Summers off and a possible pension are absolutely the wrong reasons to get into this job-even if they like working with kids. Future teachers need to go in knowing what it's about. We lost two new teachers last year who are now working in sales. They liked kids. They couldn't deal with parents, behavior issues, lack of admin support, etc. They both are really happy. They have flexible schedules, work from home a few days a week, and say they haven't cried once.

*I am sure sales is very stressful and no way could I do it. My point is you need to know what you're getting into before you spend money on an expensive degree.

 

[alicat8]

I don't think 6 additional hours outside of school is a lot, but again beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Our school day was 7 hours and we were required 20 minutes before or after school in addition to that. I always was at school a minimum of 1hr and 20 min. plus my additional time at home. I never really tracked it, but it wasn't excessive...if it was 6 hours like you I'd be up 9 hours and 40 minutes average 5 days a week for 180 days(not taking into account my lunch, plan period/specials that were free to do what I wanted) Summers off (yes conferences and continuing education required, but still a good chunk of time off) in addition to the days off built into the school year. I still find those benefits unbeatable and worth working a little more than a typical 8 hour day. I think anyone who gets into a career and thinks it is only a set time frame with nothing additional over standard hours is in for a rude awakening though.

In our district a teacher in the class next door could come to the hall and monitor their class and mine so I could use the bathroom.

We also need to monitor standardize testing but a simple clipboard in the hand to grade papers while we monitor students was ok and I found it easy to do, but again a practice that may vary by district.

Bottom line if you enjoy working with kids, enjoy having a lot of vacation time and decent pay, teaching is for you. All the other stuff is crap that just falls into the category of having a job...it's never going to be sunshine and lollipops all day.

I've never officially measured or set timers either. I'm estimating. I guess I could collect some data on that over the next few weeks for you if you want. I'm really good at that now, since it's my #2 job! All I know is that some nights it's hours and others it's nothing (beyond my daily 30-40 min after school, so I guess not reeeeally nothing). And now that I need to see my kids before they go to bed, I cut back on my "extra hours" big time. So I am currently drowning and falling behind big time. It's still Septmeber... So I imagine if I were doing enough to actually keep up with my grading and planning (and to do the quality of work I should/want to be doing) I'd be needing a lot more hours than I'm currently putting in. I'm at bare minimum (probably minus some). That probably also adds to my failure feeling. I know I'm good, but know I can do better and that's frustrating. I really should be grading stuff right now...sigh.

But those things ARE outweighed by the time I get with my own kids, the fun I have with my students, the actual joy of teaching, or I would have left. I have several friends who have left and have no regrets. I also have a friend who recently began teaching after a career in finance. She already doesn't think the time off is worth it. And I happen to know she gets a LOT more prep time than I do

I never said I expected sunshine and lollipops, but I'm assuming the OPs daughter wouldn't either, but I'm also assuming her hs guidance counselor won't be telling her about all of the stuff that's been listed in this thread that's part of the job now. I'm in 14 years. It is incredibly different from when I started and not at all like what I was taught in undergrad.