EV requirements for you personally to consider one

[bcla]

I won't buy one until it is as easy to find a charging station as it is a gas station anywhere in the country and it takes no more time to go from completely dead to fully charged than it takes to fill an empty gas tank.

That will never happen. But it doesn't have to. This one uses a rail that quickly connects and disconnects.

https://futurism.com/ev-charging-roads-sweden

The article also shows video of a means to charge (and power) through the road surface, kind of like a long wireless charging pad.

The hard part isn't using electricity to power vehicles. We've got trains, buses, subways, etc. that all run on electricity that's provided by overhead lines or third rails. Even most "diesel" trains are really electric. It's basically just a big diesel generator on wheels meant to produce electricity to power the wheels and the rest of the train. There are even a few that do both - like what Amtrak uses out of New York Penn Station since they don't want diesel exhaust building up in an underground station. They have a short third-rail setup for specific long-distance trains and General Electric made a modification of their locomotives just for Amtrak run on electricity-only underground, but then switches to diesel when above ground. The hard part right now with EVs is that we expect them to be as independent as liquid fuel powered vehicles.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The education process is hard enough as it is, trying to explain to people that a 100-150 mile battery would be sufficient while making the cars cheaper is an impossible task when the public is asking for 500-600 miles.

If you want enough of the public to purchase an electric vehicle you kinda have to be practical enough to suit all sorts of people. It's hard for someone to want to buy into an electric car if they see it as a limited usage (usually a combination of distance and ease/availability of charging abilities) and they are in the market for a car that is multi-usage.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That will never happen. But it doesn't have to. This one uses a rail that quickly connects and disconnects.

https://futurism.com/ev-charging-roads-sweden

The article also shows video of a means to charge (and power) through the road surface, kind of like a long wireless charging pad.

The hard part isn't using electricity to power vehicles. We've got trains, buses, subways, etc. that all run on electricity that's provided by overhead lines or third rails. Even most "diesel" trains are really electric. It's basically just a big diesel generator on wheels meant to produce electricity to power the wheels and the rest of the train. There are even a few that do both - like what Amtrak uses out of New York Penn Station since they don't want diesel exhaust building up in an underground station. They have a short third-rail setup for specific long-distance trains and General Electric made a modification of their locomotives just for Amtrak run on electricity-only underground, but then switches to diesel when above ground. The hard part right now with EVs is that we expect them to be as independent as liquid fuel powered vehicles.

Our new airport that is being built to replace our old one, the buses (which already run on electric) will have charging pads that are built into the pavement, it will be the only airport (unless something changes between now and the expected opening of the new airport in 2023) in the U.S. to have this.

"The charging pads will be placed in the pavement at shuttle bus stops at the terminal. As the buses wait on passengers, the electric buses will park over one of the pads. The bus will receive incremental charging as passengers load and unload. The charging stops when the bus leaves the pad. The airport said the system will keep its electric buses charged longer, meaning fewer will need to be removed from service for charging."

 

[tvguy]

That doesn’t support your claims. Yes they are still manufacturing the batteries because they don’t just snap their fingers and have a new battery for everyone. It’s not an instantaneous process. It’s also not like they warehouse the batteries until they have one for everyone. They manufacture them and install them as the production allows. It’s not a new concept.

Yes a slow process for sure if only 8% of the Bolts have had their battery replaced more than 6 months after the recall started. And you know the process of manufacturing the batteries was underway by then.

 

[Kestryl]

It’s kind of a long list: longer range, faster charging, more charging options, house upgrades, power outage plans.

While typically I don’t drive more than 30 miles a day, I do make ~500 mile one way trips about once a month.

Tied with this is charging time. I’ll need this to be down to about the time it takes to get gas on these trips. At most I’m willing to stop for half an hour. I cannot be stopping every few hours to fill up for a long time. That will turn the 8 hour drive into a full day.

And that means charging stations need to be accessible. Where I live, there aren’t very many. Same at my main distant destinations.

And I need to make sure my house can handle it. I may want a Level 2 outlet.

Power outage plan: I live in “worst case scenario” land. Remember the 2003 northeast blackout? If the grid is down, what’s the plan? (And I realize that gas is also more difficult to get in a power outage, but again, if the range of a gas vehicle can get me to a station while an EV cannot…)

And there are some things that I think are better now but I would need to confirm. Like costs seem to be decreasing and may be equivalent for some mid sized vehicles, but I would need to make a full comparison. And I would want an EV to last at least 10 years.

Simultaneously, we need electricity generation to swing towards non-coal/gas plants. I’m not saying eliminate them completely (at least not with today’s tech), but they should be the backup, not the primary.

Oh, and better public/mass transport! I would kill for some train lines here. I’m willing to sit on a train longer than I would in a car. Give me a dang Amtrack station.

 

[tvguy]

If you want enough of the public to purchase an electric vehicle you kinda have to be practical enough to suit all sorts of people. It's hard for someone to want to buy into an electric car if they see it as a limited usage (usually a combination of distance and ease/availability of charging abilities) and they are in the market for a car that is multi-usage.

I compromised and bought a hybrid. I think it is entirely possible that the range issues will eventually be solved, but electric cars have been around as long as ICE cars and it isn't an easy or cheap solution. Would I consider an Electric car? Yes. But as I keep cars 20-30+ years and I am 64, not sure I will be in the market again for a car when that day arrives.

 

[bcla]

The range and charging time are deal-breakers for me. The shortage of charging stations is likely to be a problem--one that may be fixed over the next 10-15 years. Having a way to swap out batteries easily might work for long hauls. I don't know if that's even practical--you'd have to have standard batteries, and there's likely be costs, like a deposit-type charge. But, I just don't see long-haul working with today's technology.

Once we retire (7 or so years), having a second car that's electric might make sense. However, that would involve home modifications, and with the cost of the vehicle, plus the mods, it would be much cheaper (as of today) to just get a second, cheaper ICE car (or keep the one we have). I'm actually thinking that a golf cart might make sense as a second vehicle for us.

I'm also bothered by how much this is subsidized by our government. If it's such a good idea, why do we need to subsidize it? Would people be buying the vehicles and putting in charging stations if the government weren't paying so much towards them? Why is the government picking winners, versus letting the free market decide which type of vehicles should be produced?

I'm also troubled by people acting like electricity is clean energy. It's produced in a power plant, using coal, natural gas, whatever. Just because you don't see the emissions, doesn't mean there aren't any (unless it's a nuclear plant, but the environmentalists hate them, too). There are inefficiencies and line-losses with this. And then there's the costs and environmental damage done by producing the batteries. I'm just not convinced that electric is any better for the environment than other choices.

Industrial power generation is considerably more efficient. There's a ton of inefficiency in personal vehicles that can do more than just get up to the speed limit. Industrial power plants operate near maximum power and then more get brought on line as needed. This is basic Carnot cycle thermal efficiency. But in order to have motor vehicles that can actually accelerate, we have larger, more power engines than needed to simply cruise at freeway speeds at the highest efficiency. Electricity doesn't have that issue. It's about as efficient as it's going to get across all ranges.

I know there are detractors, but there is a certain insanity to pulling petroleum out of the ground and turning it into fuel. I say that as someone who lives within range of a large refinery where the test siren goes off once a week.

 

[trivan]

EV's aren't going to be for everyone at this point. Some people buy for the environmental impact, some because it's the latest tech and some to save at the pump. The range anxiety is real for some people.

I do believe that if a gas car was sold that you can only fill at home, cost $16 per 250 miles (about what I pay to top up my EV), goes from 0-60 in about 6 sec they would sell so fast.

 

[daisy2013]

Yes a slow process for sure if only 8% of the Bolts have had their battery replaced more than 6 months after the recall started. And you know the process of manufacturing the batteries was underway by then.

You are aware that we have been in a pandemic and dealing with a supply chain issue? It’s why there are empty spots in grocery stores and why it is hard to find new cars? They have to be manufactured, shipped and installed. All three have been impacted by the pandemic is a variety of ways. The software fix (which took about 20 minutes for my husbands) allows the cars to be charged and parked safely until a new battery is installed.

 

[tvguy]

You are aware that we have been in a pandemic and dealing with a supply chain issue? It’s why there are empty spots in grocery stores and why it is hard to find new cars? They have to be manufactured, shipped and installed. All three have been impacted by the pandemic is a variety of ways. The software fix (which took about 20 minutes for my husbands) allows the cars to be charged and parked safely until a new battery is installed.

Yes, I think I have heard of the pandemic, LOL. And it is why Hyundai bought back my son's Kona EV. They could not provide a replacement battery within 30 days, which in California means they HAD to buy it back under Lemon Laws.

 

[bcla]

Our new airport that is being built to replace our old one, the buses (which already run on electric) will have charging pads that are built into the pavement, it will be the only airport (unless something changes between now and the expected opening of the new airport in 2023) in the U.S. to have this.

"The charging pads will be placed in the pavement at shuttle bus stops at the terminal. As the buses wait on passengers, the electric buses will park over one of the pads. The bus will receive incremental charging as passengers load and unload. The charging stops when the bus leaves the pad. The airport said the system will keep its electric buses charged longer, meaning fewer will need to be removed from service for charging."

Sure - it's not exactly a perfect solution, but it's one that extends the range between when a vehicle has to be plugged in to power.

There was a ton of controversy over this years ago, mainly based on the costs. But the costs of the batteries are going way down. I was skeptical 10 years ago, but it's looking more and more practical as the technology and drive to do this develops.

 

[bcla]

If you want enough of the public to purchase an electric vehicle you kinda have to be practical enough to suit all sorts of people. It's hard for someone to want to buy into an electric car if they see it as a limited usage (usually a combination of distance and ease/availability of charging abilities) and they are in the market for a car that is multi-usage.

That's the thing - most people buy way more vehicle than they need in order to meet every need. But as a practical matter, it would probably be cheaper (even just talking about internal combustion engines) to purchase a vehicle that meets one's daily needs and rent a vehicle for other periods that are more suitable for other needs. I mean - a lot of people buy large pickup trucks and then just drive them to an office building on weekdays.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Sure - it's not exactly a perfect solution, but it's one that extends the range between when a vehicle has to be plugged in to power.

There was a ton of controversy over this years ago, mainly based on the costs. But the costs of the batteries are going way down. I was skeptical 10 years ago, but it's looking more and more practical as the technology and drive to do this develops.

I was just saying what the airport was getting, not commenting on anything else. Just saying they are installing in the road a pad to charge the bus. The technology is a long way off from being used on roads across America (if ever) but it's neat to see something like that being used.

That's the thing - most people buy way more vehicle than they need in order to meet every need. But as a practical matter, it would probably be cheaper (even just talking about internal combustion engines) to purchase a vehicle that meets one's daily needs and rent a vehicle for other periods that are more suitable for other needs. I mean - a lot of people buy large pickup trucks and then just drive them to an office building on weekdays.

I'm just talking about getting people at large interested in buying electric vehicles. It's something that weighs in on people's minds how much will they get out of it and that's not a bad thing.

As far as trucks..granted the people I know who only use the truck for the office building are well..they are the ones with the truck nuts (I kid but I don't) everyone else I know who purchases a truck does something with it, hauling a trailer, using the bed's capacity for large items, towing boats, etc. My in-laws have owned a truck (various ones from Tundras, to F150s and now an F350) and use it daily (because they each need a vehicle) but they use the truck for towing the 5th wheel, the flat bed trailer, the boat and we've borrowed it several times for the bed's capacity. That's one of the reasons my husband wants a truck because he doesn't want to have to borrow. The Ford Lightning appealed to him because the towing, the usages he wanted out of it. And most of my friends are this way too with trucks. They may use it commuting because that makes sense but they want versatility out of it as well for other usages.

 

[mrodgers]

We complain about OTHERS being distracted, not ourselves.

I will say, when I am seated behind the wheel, my phone is inaccessible in my front pocket unless I pull over and get out of my car.

 

[bcla]

I was just saying what the airport was getting, not commenting on anything else. Just saying they are installing in the road a pad to charge the bus. The technology is a long way off from being used on roads across America (if ever) but it's neat to see something like that being used.

I'm just talking about getting people at large interested in buying electric vehicles. It's something that weighs in on people's minds how much will they get out of it and that's not a bad thing.

As far as trucks..granted the people I know who only use the truck for the office building are well..they are the ones with the truck nuts (I kid but I don't) everyone else I know who purchases a truck does something with it, hauling a trailer, using the bed's capacity for large items, towing boats, etc. My in-laws have owned a truck (various ones from Tundras, to F150s and now an F350) and use it daily (because they each need a vehicle) but they use the truck for towing the 5th wheel, the flat bed trailer, the boat and we've borrowed it several times for the bed's capacity. That's one of the reasons my husband wants a truck because he doesn't want to have to borrow. The Ford Lightning appealed to him because the towing, the usages he wanted out of it. And most of my friends are this way too with trucks. They may use it commuting because that makes sense but they want versatility out of it as well for other usages.

Sure. Feeding into ego is part of car culture. I admit that my car is probably way more powerful than any car really needs to be for driving to work or getting groceries.

I have heard that it can be a pain to own a pickup truck because a lot of people will be asking to borrow it. I've borrowed a pickup truck once, but it was an old compact one, but with a bed big enough to move a large piece of furniture. And the ride of that thing was frankly not very good, but those were extremely popular back in the 80s. I don't really understand a lot of these newer pickup trucks that have tiny beds like a Chevy Avalache or Honda Ridgeline.

 

[dez1978]

EV's aren't going to be for everyone at this point. Some people buy for the environmental impact, some because it's the latest tech and some to save at the pump. The range anxiety is real for some people.

I do believe that if a gas car was sold that you can only fill at home, cost $16 per 250 miles (about what I pay to top up my EV), goes from 0-60 in about 6 sec they would sell so fast.

But we'd still be left with the range anxiety. And if you could only charge at home, then any sort of road trips would be out and that would be a deal breaker for most people I know. At least as their main vehicle.

 

[dez1978]

That's the thing - most people buy way more vehicle than they need in order to meet every need. But as a practical matter, it would probably be cheaper (even just talking about internal combustion engines) to purchase a vehicle that meets one's daily needs and rent a vehicle for other periods that are more suitable for other needs. I mean - a lot of people buy large pickup trucks and then just drive them to an office building on weekdays.

Have you seen rental cars these days lol

We've had at least one truck for 25 years. No one has ever asked to borrow ours. DH drives his truck daily but also actually uses it as a truck pretty frequently to tow bobcats, the boat etc.
We've always sort of split it. He has the truck and we occasionally take it as the family vehicle depending on what we are doing. Boating, 4 wheeling etc. Then I have the "family car" that we take everywhere and it's my daily car. Over the years, my car has gotten bigger. From an Impala to a Yukon XL. Do I need the Yukon every day? No. Of course I could get around in a camry. Does he need a 3/4 ton truck every day, of course not. But we do use and need them frequently enough that renting one would be stupid. The thing is, cars aren't always a strictly practical purchase. The same with houses. I know a ton of people with families of 4 who live in 3000 sq ft houses. Do they NEED that much house? Probably not. But thats their decision, not mine.

 

[Colleen27]

That's the thing - most people buy way more vehicle than they need in order to meet every need. But as a practical matter, it would probably be cheaper (even just talking about internal combustion engines) to purchase a vehicle that meets one's daily needs and rent a vehicle for other periods that are more suitable for other needs. I mean - a lot of people buy large pickup trucks and then just drive them to an office building on weekdays.

I think that might be true when comparing ICE vehicles, but the EV premium makes the math different. It probably would make sense, from a pure dollars-and-cents perspective, for me to own something like a $25K ICE Civic for the ~345 days a year that I don't need the extra space or capabilities of my ($35K if it were new) van or of the $40K SUV I expect to replace it with. But it wouldn't make sense to own a $35K Bolt and still have to rent a car for those 20 or so days spent traveling rather than just buying the SUV that can do it all, and the limited range and limited access to chargers would actually increase the rental needs - a Civic would be fine for the short weekend trips we take, but they'd push the range limit on the Bolt and the mid-range accommodations we usually stay in don't have chargers.

And of course, rental prices right now are through the roof. Heck, we're transferring the title on my son's old pickup (really old: a '94 Silverado) to keep around as a spare instead of selling it because the monthly legal-minimum insurance payment is less than what it would cost to rent a pickup for a single day, and while we don't need a truck often, we do tend to need it a couple times a month between our two households and the two others (my mom's and MIL's) that enlist our help with bigger DIY projects.

But as Dez said, vehicle purchases aren't strictly practical. I am always far more comfortable in my own vehicle than in a rental. I know where all the controls are. I know how everything works. I have everything I need at hand. I don't have to worry about which roads I can drive on, or about fines if my kids make a mess, or about being penalized for a smoke smell (DH doesn't smoke in the car, but he does smoke and that smell lingers), or not being able to let one of my young adult kids be designated driver if I have a drink at dinner. So yes, I do want my own vehicle to be able to do all or most of what I am going to use it for, rather than being the most practical possible car for an average day at home but not sufficient for traveling or other heavier uses.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

I have read this thread - as I am looking for a new car and thinking electric. I drive 2 miles to work each way and have charging stations at my office and my apartment.
To my mind the technology has come a long way - so this old gal may go electric.

Either that or in my mid life crisis buy a Porsche 911.
Age 53 has me thinking of fun

 

[dez1978]

I think that might be true when comparing ICE vehicles, but the EV premium makes the math different. It probably would make sense, from a pure dollars-and-cents perspective, for me to own something like a $25K ICE Civic for the ~345 days a year that I don't need the extra space or capabilities of my ($35K if it were new) van or of the $40K SUV I expect to replace it with. But it wouldn't make sense to own a $35K Bolt and still have to rent a car for those 20 or so days spent traveling rather than just buying the SUV that can do it all, and the limited range and limited access to chargers would actually increase the rental needs - a Civic would be fine for the short weekend trips we take, but they'd push the range limit on the Bolt and the mid-range accommodations we usually stay in don't have chargers.

And of course, rental prices right now are through the roof. Heck, we're transferring the title on my son's old pickup (really old: a '94 Silverado) to keep around as a spare instead of selling it because the monthly legal-minimum insurance payment is less than what it would cost to rent a pickup for a single day, and while we don't need a truck often, we do tend to need it a couple times a month between our two households and the two others (my mom's and MIL's) that enlist our help with bigger DIY projects.

But as Dez said, vehicle purchases aren't strictly practical. I am always far more comfortable in my own vehicle than in a rental. I know where all the controls are. I know how everything works. I have everything I need at hand. I don't have to worry about which roads I can drive on, or about fines if my kids make a mess, or about being penalized for a smoke smell (DH doesn't smoke in the car, but he does smoke and that smell lingers), or not being able to let one of my young adult kids be designated driver if I have a drink at dinner. So yes, I do want my own vehicle to be able to do all or most of what I am going to use it for, rather than being the most practical possible car for an average day at home but not sufficient for traveling or other heavier uses.

Also to add on to the comfort part, I am not comfortable in smaller vehicles. The seats aren't as comfortable, I feel like I'm sitting on the floor and quite frankly my anxiety is higher in a small car as well. Some people have problems getting in and out of cars and need something higher, like a mini van or suv, even if thats not the most practical.