Ever had to choose to put your kids in a poor-quality school?

[cabanafrau]

And my kids who graduated from a mediocre public school say their private school peers did not do as well as my public school kids did at college. So there's also that. Depends on so many factors, including the individual kid.

Maybe some of us just don't love our kids enough or cared enough to be good parents and send our kids to private school.

Little hooligan good for nothings had the nerve to go ahead and spite us by becoming successful anyway! Maybe there is more than one way to skin a cat after all.

ETA: I went to private school My public schoolteacher father-in-law informed me that teachers who couldn't get a good job teaching in the public schools had to take a job teaching private, therefore private school educations are inferior. It's all a matter of perspective and posturing.

 

[wilbret]

I live in an area where magnet schools are generally considered by middle-class residents to be the only decent public school option. We've done OK in the lower grades, but high school for our youngest is looming up as a problem. There are a few good magnet choices for high school, but for various reasons I won't get into, admission to them is fairly unlikely to happen. If so, then the quality of the available public options go way down, like "avg. ACT of 12" way down.

So, private school may be an option, but again, admissions standards apply. We've been down this road before, and the resulting education wasn't worth a fraction of what was poured into it; which was a fortune that this time we really can't afford to spend. Moving to a better district with geographically-assigned schools is another option, but not at all a good one: our current home is paid for, but very small and not worth very much, and we're getting close to retirement age now. Moving would mean taking on a mortgage again, one much larger than the one we paid off.

When we chose to live here we assumed that our kids would simply work hard enough to get over the academic bar into the magnet schools (something that both of us did in our time); we thought that was a given. As it turns out, it didn't happen, no matter how much enrichment we did or how hard we pushed -- our kids are fairly bright, but just don't have the drive to do more than coast along with a C+ average. When I think about going into debt to pour another $60K into a mediocre high school career it makes me feel sick, and I'm just not sure I can do it again.

So, is it really that bad to just accept a not-very-good school situation? (I'm not speaking of dangerous conditions, just crappy academics.) FTR: I don't think the kid would actually score a 12 on the ACT (turns out you can actually manage that with pure guessing!); I think something in the neighborhood of 21 or so would be more likely.

Does your district have an open choice option? The “great” school we were zoned for when we moved (one of the reasons we picked the house) changed for the worse drastically by the time our first kid was set to enroll.

There are a few schools you can elect, based on availability. Your first choice may not be the one you get...our neighbor got a different one than us. The catch is you provide transportation, and other kids in your family aren’t guaranteed to get in. We did this for a few years, and then moved to be zoned for the school.

 

[FigmentSpark]

I find it interesting that you mentioned your son is interested in private school because there is no "poverty" or "bullying" or "substance abuse". I wonder, first off, if he's actually got some anxiety about these major teenage issues? Is he looking to escape something that may be paralyzing him and even depressing him enough that it's affected his motivation? When all you see is despair, it's really hard to believe doing anything is worthwhile. He may see those "promo videos" as hope for something else for himself.

His hoping for something else should tell you more about his state of mind. Have you talked to a counselor or therapist to see if he's got something else holding him back from achieving? Not saying he needs his life mapped out yet, but if he's stuck in a depressed or anxiety rut, that could be affecting his motivation.

You also mentioned he's into music/arts. Have you thought about a fine arts school? Is there one near you? Maybe a change of focus on something he loves would help him to be more motivated? Or is there at least a school where he would qualify with a good arts/music program?

I wouldn't send him to a "rich" private school. I went to a school with a lot of "rich" kids and I wasn't one of them. That actually was worse for my self-esteem because they made sure I "knew" I wasn't as good as them. Ideally, if you go the private route, try to find one that includes a similar socioeconomic demographic to your own, so that he will fit in with that crowd without having to sacrifice his own values just to belong.

I concur with others... whatever you choose, choose the one where it seems there is less substance issues or bullying issues. Find the school where you might get teachers who care.

 

[Southernmiss]

Maybe some of us just don't love our kids enough or cared enough to be good parents and send our kids to private school.

Little hooligan good for nothings had the nerve to go ahead and spite us by becoming successful anyway! Maybe there is more than one way to skin a cat after all.

ETA: I went to private school My public schoolteacher father-in-law informed me that teachers who couldn't get a good job teaching in the public schools had to take a job teaching private, therefore private school educations are inferior. It's all a matter of perspective and posturing.

I had a friend who scrimped and saved as a single mom to make sure her 2 sons attended the local pretty good Catholic school.

She told me as her youngest son was in 11th grade that she had some regrets about sending him to private school. The opportunities at our local Catholic school are not as plentiful as our public school. Funding is a big factor. Our local population does not support enough students whose families can pay many thousands of dollars to attend K-12 school. The public schools can do more with the local tax and federal money that they receive than private schools can do with their tuition and donations. The size of the Catholic school (about 400 students) did not have enough students to offer the variety of activities as could be offered at our public school of 1600 students. Our public school had gifted opportunities and more special ed opportunities. So kids on those ends of the spectrum were overlooked as the Catholic school taught to the average kids. There was peer pressure on the average kids because of what the kids from wealthier families could have.

As to your ETA point, I have heard the same thing. Sometimes because of what they can pay, the private schools have to accept "just anyone" to teach.

 

[yoopermom]

As a fellow librarian, who's followed your posts over the years, I feel for you.

Our DS was born and raised in this rural area where basically *all* of the public schools are middle to low quality, not many of the graduates go on to high level colleges, etc. Nice people, just no motivation to "better" themselves. DS coasted through h.s., with nowhere close to the grades he could have/should have gotten. I have two masters, and come from an educated family, so he was expected to better himself.

What got him into the college of his dreams (MSU)? Me having to give up my parent dreams of him graduating valedictorian of his class with all the scholarships (which he was more than capable of). Basically we just "got through" those four years with him, and were glad he stayed off drugs, not in trouble with the law, etc. (He did love his extra curriculars, which helped.)

And then we DUG for summer college programs aimed at high school students in any and all areas he might be interested in. We put (what little money we had) into driving him downstate to U of M and MSU for engineering camps, science camps, 4-H expo days, etc. He got familiar with a few very specific, good college campuses, and made some connections. I think it gave him a reason to "get through" high school, because he wanted to go to a college of that caliber, and got a sniff of what it would take.

Personally, we would never had paid for private school, or moved for him, in the position that you are in, but that's just us. I wouldn't be 13 again for all the money in the world, it's a rough age!

Terri

 

[tvguy]

And my kids who graduated from a mediocre public school say their private school peers did not do as well as my public school kids did at college. So there's also that. Depends on so many factors, including the individual kid.

And the biggest factor, PARENTS who are involved in their child's lives and education. That can turn a student in a mediocre public school into a great student.

 

[NotUrsula]

As a fellow librarian, who's followed your posts over the years, I feel for you.

Our DS was born and raised in this rural area where basically *all* of the public schools are middle to low quality, not many of the graduates go on to high level colleges, etc. Nice people, just no motivation to "better" themselves. DS coasted through h.s., with nowhere close to the grades he could have/should have gotten. I have two masters, and come from an educated family, so he was expected to better himself.
[snip]
And then we DUG for summer college programs aimed at high school students in any and all areas he might be interested in. We put (what little money we had) into driving him downstate to U of M and MSU for engineering camps, science camps, 4-H expo days, etc. He got familiar with a few very specific, good college campuses, and made some connections. I think it gave him a reason to "get through" high school, because he wanted to go to a college of that caliber, and got a sniff of what it would take.
[snip]

See, that was the plan I followed myself (only my parents had nothing to do with it; I was the one who dug up the summer programs and figured out how to get there, because I knew I wasn't getting college campus exposure any other way.) I also grew up in a rural community where a degree in anything other than education was seen as "uppity" if you were female. Nursing was kind of OK, but the usual route was to get an LPN at the local trade school first, and only do the RN if the hospital sponsored you. I was considered one hella weird rebel by most folks, including my mother, who thought I was nuts for wanting a college education, and left the whole mess up to me to figure out and to pay for.

I assumed that my kids would be as enthusiastic about learning as I was, but they shot that dream down fast. I absolutely hate feeling like I have to force-feed it to them.

 

[2China2009]

I guess I should have clarified that motivation is the key issue here; there is none, not for academics, anyway. I know very well that a motivated scholar can overcome a bad K-12 education: I did it myself. That is what is throwing us; we were both strivers, and this lack of academic ambition is just not something we understand very well. (This kid is artsy. Perfect grade in music, for instance. Math or English? Not so much. LOTS of zeroes for missing deadlines, etc.) Also, FTR, the military isn't an option, due to a disqualifying medical issue.

I'll add that the kid is more in favor of private school, mostly to get away from the prevalence of poverty (or what the kid perceives as the prevalence of poverty. The truth is that very few of the students at their current G&T public middle school live in dire poverty; most are the children of civil servants or skilled blue-collar workers, many of whom are single parents. The kiddo is engaging in a fantasy that a private school will magically be devoid of substance abuse, bullying or less-than-nurturing teachers -- a fantasy that comes from recruiting videos rather than reality.)

What I'm trying to get at is a balance point where, hopefully, some part of the family does not unduly suffer for the choices of another part of it. DH & I have already been through spending a ton of money to try to give kids the best options, only to have all the options left discarded because of a lack of motivation. It hurts us quite a bit, both financially and emotionally, and we're trying to decide if it is fair at this point to put our own needs first. Our children are not going to be able to contribute to our living expenses in our old age; even if they were inclined to do so, they don't have that kind of earning power. (Not caring at all about educational quality isn't what we are looking at; we're not that angry.) We're 22 years into the active parenting gig; and while our income is solid, we're not anywhere close to what I would think of as well-off, and amassing a 6-figure college fund required years of concerted effort.

DH & I have friends & colleagues who are very invested in getting their kids into the "right" college, and watched as they stressed over Ivy League interviews and/or lamented the performance of a kid who failed to exceed a 4.0 GPA in high school. Thoughts like that never crossed our minds even before we knew what our kids' educational aptitude was; we don't have those kinds of expectations. (We both were first-generation college graduates who felt privileged to attend our state schools.) In our book, average is just fine.

The high school situation here just doesn't offer that much in terms of middle ground. There are very good public options for high-achievers, but if you don't do well enough to qualify for them by the time you are 13 years old, then what is left is pretty substandard unless you are in a position to invest a lot of money into a private education that is what I would class as mediocre. I have nothing against being average -- what I question is whether or not it is worth investing an estimated $60K into the education of one average student before higher education is even on the table. (Note that that price is for a non-selective private high school; we could spend 2X that on a really good one here if the kid could get in; but if those kinds of grades were on the table then we wouldn't need to spend it at all, because the kid would be high-achieving enough to be accepted at the local magnets, which are just as good, if not better academically. At many of the most select private schools, the investment is as much about the connections as it is the academics, but that's another topic for another day.)

PS: Trust me, homeschooling is NOT an option in this situation. This kid needs the structure of a classroom and the skills of professional educators to get a decent outcome.

There is no way I would pay for any private education if the motivation is not there. Where I live we have the option of opting into all different school districts. This is what I did for my girls and they are at a top rated school outside the district I live in. We would have never moved due to getting into a better district was an option. If home schooling is not an option then he continues in the school district he is in. If his grades are below average so be it. His only option should be a community college or trade school. I would not be sinking any of my cash into anything. Maybe a FT job after he graduates from HS. If he were still living with me under my roof I would be charging for rent, some food and his own cell phone and car insurance. He will have to figure out the big picture in life.

 

[Tallis]

Once upon a time, I was in a very similar situation, except private school was out of the question financially.

My two youngest started at the school just to give it a chance. I ended up pulling them both out and homeschooling for the duration of that year.

All the while, I was researching options. I ended up being able to enroll the youngest in an out of district school, so long as I provided transportation, which I did. The other child continued to homeschool until college.

 

[mom2rtk]

Have you considered trying the local district for a year (or even a semester) then reevaluating?

 

[Colleen27]

I think there's a lot more to schools than what the numbers show.

My DS22 struggled in school practically from the start, with middle school and early high school being a train wreck of unmotivated and careless behaviour. Moving him from our neighborhood public school to a much lower ranked but smaller and more structured alternative school was the best move we ever made for him, and he went into a trade program and is making pretty good money and working on buying his first home now. DD19 was a very self-motivated student and she went to a highly-rated private school, and I was surprised to find a lot of the same structures and supports there as in the "bad" alternative school - apparently one of the things they provide for the money, in addition to challenges for a student like DD, is a virtual guarantee that they'll get an unmotivated student through high school. Almost no one transfers out and everyone graduates on time.

Our above average public school, on the other hand, has a reputation for not having much to offer kids at either end of the ambition spectrum - the unmotivated who need structure and additional check-ins and accountability to stay on track and the highly motivated who need more challenging classes and support with highly selective college applications and scholarship essays. They're good for the general, average-bright, average-motivated student who is hoping to do well in high school, enjoy a decent array of extracurriculars, and go on to a selective or semi-selective in state university, and since those children are a much larger group than the outliers at either extreme, their test scores and other data measures reflect he broad successes rather than the narrower struggles.

Which is all a very long winded way of saying that just because a school looks bad (or good) on paper doesn't mean it will be a bad (or good) place for every student.

 

[Travel60]

If your son really thinks he wants the private school option, tell him you will match (if you can) as anything he earns toward it. Even a thirteen y/o can do yard work (mow, weed, mulch, rake leaves), walk/ feed pets, etc. He could probably earn $400 a week in the summer and $150 a week during the school year. If he wants it bad enough to put in the hours he may gain the ambition to succeed. And ask for tuition assistance....all private schools have generous programs.

 

[Heather07438]

DS19 just started uni. When he entered 4th grade we received a letter home that the school was 'failing' and we had a right to bus him to a non-failing school if we chose. Back to school night the next week was a mess... the tension between the principal/staff/parents was palpable as onstage speeches were full of back & forth finger pointing. The district had become overwhelmed with issues. As much as the honorable thing to do would be help our community work toward fixing the issues, we only have 1 child and the clock was ticking. His needs came first.

That night we made the decision to move towns and resettled 60 days later where DS finished out his public schooling. The move equalled about $300 extra per month and a longer commute. In hindsight it still feels like possibly the most important decision we've made regarding DS. No regrets.

 

[MrsPete]

What do your kids want?

Taking the kid's ideas and opinions into consideration is good, but ultimately the parents should make this decision. Parents are likely to think long-term -- about the money, the social situation, the potential for college admissions /success.

I went to a poor/mediocre school - I was very self motivated and managed to get into a very elite University which I then promptly failed out of in my sophomore year ...

I won't say I went to a poor high school, but it was a little country school. I took all the highest-level courses, but the standards weren't all that high. When I started college, I realized immediately that I wasn't as well prepared as the average student, and I knew I had two choices: step up or get out. It wasn't easy.

I love how every kid on the dis that performs poorly is really smart, just poorly motivated.

It's not just on DIS. It's every kid in my class who does poorly.

If your child is unmotivated to do well in school, then it's not going to matter what school they attend and don't do well in.

Agree.

ETA: I went to private school My public schoolteacher father-in-law informed me that teachers who couldn't get a good job teaching in the public schools had to take a job teaching private, therefore private school educations are inferior. It's all a matter of perspective and posturing.

It's wrong to say that all teachers in private schools are "lesser" than all public school teachers -- but it is true that public school teachers make significantly more money than private school teachers (especially when you include the pension), and most people who are able to choose will opt for more money. It's also true that public schools require all teachers to have college degrees and teaching licenses; not all teachers in private schools are licensed.

It's also true that most public schools offer a greater range of class choices and extra-curricular options at the high school level.

 

[KayKayJS]

I don't think throwing money at the problem is a solution to lack of motivation. I saw that a lot with my peers in my younger years - and motivation has to come from within.

 

[kymom99]

What are the long term goals? 4 year college? Community college? Trade school? You said no military, so that is it out.

There is no way I’d pay money to send my child to private school who was planning on maybe getting an associates degree. Or going to beauty school. Or to do any other perfectly respectable job that does not require a 4 year degree. And even then, if you’re talking a 4 year degree for a low paying job, not sure that’s worth a high school private school tuition.

My whole family attended private schools through 12th grade. I’m not sure how much we might make one day was a factor. It was because my parents and later my siblings and I wanted a school that aligned with our values. My son will not be making a lot of money when he graduates college but he thrived at his small catholic high school. When he started high school we had no idea what he might become.

 

[kymom99]

My kids are now 29 and 33 and they frequently comment that their private K-12 education prepared them far better than their College classmates that went to public schools.
As an example, my youngest entered the California State University system in 2009. Her Freshman class was the largest enter class at the time in CSU history. They had the highest average GPA and SAT and ACT scores. And....................drum roll ........the highest percentage of students needing to take remedial Math, English and Science classes. HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? My daughter was amazed at how many classmates had no idea how to write a paper.

Same experience for my son

 

[NotUrsula]

My whole family attended private schools through 12th grade. I’m not sure how much we might make one day was a factor. It was because my parents and later my siblings and I wanted a school that aligned with our values. My son will not be making a lot of money when he graduates college but he thrived at his small catholic high school. When he started high school we had no idea what he might become.

Over the years I have found that one's perspective on this tends to depend greatly on the quality of the public schools in your district. If your public schools are at least in the middle of the quality curve, and you are choosing private schools for reasons of faith or in order to facilitate social connections, career prospects are probably not a major motivation. OTOH, if your public school options are so poor that your reasons for choosing private education are more about personal safety or academic rigor, then career prospects are likely to play a MUCH larger role in the decision. I'm personally not a fan of schools that prioritize religion over academic subjects in terms of classroom hours, so that will limit the choice of places that I'm willing to consider.

I told Yoopermom I grew up in the country, and I did, but in the Deep South. At that time, the phenomenon of the post-Brown segregation academy was quite popular in my area. We did have a choice of schools; one public that was very poorly funded and not rigorous at all, one Catholic that had recently integrated the students from the former separate blacks-only Catholic school in the county (it was slightly better academically but had fewer disciplinary problems), and THREE independent private K-12 "academies" that charged a fortune for an education that was also no better (most of their teachers were unlicensed), but where one could be assured that the entire student body and every teacher and lunch lady would be lily-white. Exposure to them taught me very early on that all private education is NOT created equal. Two of those segregation academies have thankfully closed now, but one re-branded itself as a "fundamentalist Christian" school but disingenuously continued serving the same aim with the same lack of rigor. My wariness remains. (FWIW, most of the segregation academies closed during the recession of the mid-1980s, when economic hardship made paying top dollar just for segregation a very tough sell.)

 

[barkley]

The kid wants college, but doesn't want to slog through a not-fun HS to get there. Immature of course, but that's 13.

does your state offer any kind of program where high school students can do their jr/sr year low cost/no cost at a local college? if so that may be the motivation that gets your kiddo to buckle down for the first two years of high school b/c states that do offer it tend to require a minimum (not insanely high but acceptable) gpa as well as the student demonstrating they have the follow through to complete and timely hand in assignments. my state has this and the kids in it take the same general ed classes that all college freshman/sophomores have to take but they count for dual credit to meet their high school graduation BUT they can also take electives at the college. you say he's 'artsy' so whatever type of arts he's interested in he could try out. it could be a means of finding out if college is even a consideration for him in the long run, and in the short term-it's something that he's going to have to put some effort into in order to qualify for.

ETA: I went to private school My public schoolteacher father-in-law informed me that teachers who couldn't get a good job teaching in the public schools had to take a job teaching private, therefore private school educations are inferior. It's all a matter of perspective and posturing.

dh is a product of all but a couple of years of private school, i taught at one for a time/know lots of private school teachers, my kids went to private schools until high school. that said-i would HIGHLY encourage anyone considering considering sending their kiddo to a private school to dig up any information they can on potential schools. the p/r these schools do can be very misleading. find out if your state requires accredited private schools to have state credentialed teachers b/c some states do not so a kiddo can end up with someone who has taught there for years b/c they are in good standing and well thought of by the governing church body. if it's a state that doesn't require it but the promotional materials tout that all the teachers have college degrees-ask around and find out what degrees people have b/c they may be totally unrelated to what they are teaching. we opted out of a high school b/c we knew that the high school science teacher had a degree (just as their promotional materials touted) but it wasn't in science or teaching-it was in cosmetology i know of other teachers whose degrees are in 'bible studies' who are teaching hard core general ed classes they have no knowledge base to teach (and their students don't know how much they are missing out on).

there's good and bad with private schools just like public schools. in my experience there were 2 big categories of long term teachers/1 sub category for short-timers (as i was). long term were either highly dedicated/well educated who loved the private school vibe (often for religious reasons) or not qualified/not capable of teaching in the public schools. short-timers were those of us who graduated midterm and found an open job at a private school while we were waiting for f/t jobs to open up for the public schools.

 

[wilbret]

It's wrong to say that all teachers in private schools are "lesser" than all public school teachers -- but it is true that public school teachers make significantly more money than private school teachers (especially when you include the pension), and most people who are able to choose will opt for more money. It's also true that public schools require all teachers to have college degrees and teaching licenses; not all teachers in private schools are licensed.

It's also true that most public schools offer a greater range of class choices and extra-curricular options at the high school level.

depends on the private school. If it’s a country private school with tuition $5-10k, then, most likely. (my mom taught at one of those for 30+ years, and never made more than $32k, but in that part of the world... you can still buy a house for less than that.)

Private schools here are $20k and up. I can assure you the teachers are paid the same as public school. My wife taught at one here, they follow the county salaries. Added bonus...a bonus. Plus, parents would typically give a $500 gift at Christmas. Never had to pay a dime for supplies. Downside: also the parents. She teaches at a great public school now, after taking 5 years off to be a SAHM.