Experience of testing positive at port

[OoflowerbudoO]

I have to agree with you. She was giving them a positive covid test result, not a terminal cancer diagnosis. The kids should have been prepared for what could happen and how to handle it. Maybe the health care worker could have been more sensitive, but they see a lot worse stuff than being denied boarding a cruise ship.

Yep, so somehow I knew when I made the cancer comparison that people would think that is insensitive. It’s obviously a very different matter and not a life or death issue, but it is still nonethless incredibly disappointing for young children. Their being upset was entirely appropriate, and no amount of our prepping them would’ve prevented that from happening. They could’ve done better, that is all that I’m simply saying as a medical professional and as a mom.

 

[DCLMP]

Yep, so somehow I knew when I made the cancer comparison that people would think that is insensitive. It’s obviously a very different matter and not a life or death issue, but it is still nonethless incredibly disappointing for young children. Their being upset was entirely appropriate, and no amount of our prepping them would’ve prevented that from happening. They could’ve done better, that is all that I’m simply saying as a medical professional and as a mom.

You really think it would have made a difference. As a healthcare professional and a mom, you should know that.

 

[OoflowerbudoO]

Thanks for everyone and their kind comments. The purpose of the story was to tell you logistically what happens if you test positive at port. Nothing will stop your family from being disappointed, but at least you will anticipate what might happen. Anticipate that you might be told this information rather bluntly and insensitively. Anticipate that you will have no internet access to pull the trigger on your plan B. Anticipate that it will be much more heart breaking to do this all in front of the ship. That is all. We will be fine. We will go on more vacations, and luckily all healthy and well. Thank you for your kindness and empathy.

 

[DCLMP]

It does not matter that this is not a "cancer diagnosis". A health care worker is (or should be) held to a standard of professionalism when giving test results, especially to children and families. The need for empathy, privacy and confidentiality does not change with the test ordered, or the results to be given. This whole approach is a shame.

I didn't get the impression any privacy laws were violated.

 

[OoflowerbudoO]

You really think it would have made a difference. As a healthcare professional and a mom, you should know that.

Absolutely it would’ve made a difference. People don’t get mad at healthcare professionals for their diagnosis, they get mad because they think they were treated poorly or with a lack of empathy. That’s why bedside manner matters so much right? The feeling of whether or not your nurse or doctor cares about you and what is happening to you? Delivery of bad news, empathy, and regarding families in the context of what they are experiencing is fundamental to practicing good medicine on human beings…. Of course it would not have saved us from the disappointment, but it would’ve made it better for sure.

 

[Elsa75]

I didn't say to test 2-3 days before sailing. The only issue is a positive PCR can indicate an infection up to 3 months prior and that you are fully recovered and not contagious. And at least where I live, up to 6 weeks ago you couldn't get a PCR anywhere-not like it is today. I'm just saying with the numbers going down and mask mandates being lifted I hope they change their policy soon. I just think it's time to follow the science like we did initially when this entire situation started. This is just my opinion, not interested in getting into a debate about this.

Yep. Totally agree with you. There is very clear evidence that the PCR tests do not correlate with active infection or infectivity. I guess they are just being super super careful to avoid the craziness of 2020 with huge outbreaks. Will be so glad when this is over. We board this coming Saturday and we are terrified that we will end up with a nasty surprise despite careful testing, masking, vaccinating etc. We are starting to get used to not having solid plans anymore. We "might" fly to Florida later this week with a "chance" of going on a Disney cruise!!

 

[DCLMP]

Absolutely it would’ve made a difference. People don’t get mad at healthcare professionals for their diagnosis, they get mad because they think they were treated poorly or with a lack of empathy. That’s why bedside manner matters so much right? The feeling of whether or not your nurse or doctor cares about you and what is happening to you? Delivery of bad news, empathy, and regarding families in the context of what they are experiencing is fundamental to practicing good medicine on human beings…. Of course it would not have saved us from the disappointment, but it would’ve made it better for sure.

This wasn't "your" nurse or doctor. It was just someone working at a covid testing site on a cruise ship. My level of disappointment would have been the same regardless of how I got the news. I don't think any amount of empathy or sympathy from a complete stranger would change that. Fortunately, kids seem to get over things quickly.

 

[MomOTwins]

Yep, so somehow I knew when I made the cancer comparison that people would think that is insensitive. It’s obviously a very different matter and not a life or death issue, but it is still nonethless incredibly disappointing for young children. Their being upset was entirely appropriate, and no amount of our prepping them would’ve prevented that from happening. They could’ve done better, that is all that I’m simply saying as a medical professional and as a mom.

I think it’s worth rereading the bolded part and thinking how those two two statements conflict. You say they could have done better by telling the news to a parent out of earshot of the kids so the parent could break the news, but then say nothing a parent could do to prepare the kids would have lessened their disappointment. I’d wager the kids would have been just as upset no matter how the nurse handled it. Kind of feels like deflected anger/looking for someone to blame to accuse the nurse of unprofessionalism. Especially when you are so convinced no amount of parental managing of the kids’ expectations in advance would have helped.

I didn't get the impression any privacy laws were violated.

Agree, the results were delivered in a private room the family only.

 

[Elsa75]

I didn't get the impression any privacy laws were violated.

Sorry yes the original post was three pages back. The other sibling and a "disney rep" were present in the room. I am an MD also. Providing test results in front of siblings or a "rep" is 100% a privacy violation unless consent was explicitly provided. I am VERY careful about delivering test results to families - esp siblings. This could be fodder for years to come, and is totally avoidable. Mom and dad should have been given the option to have privacy with the child. (maybe they did - who knows?) Was speaking in general about our duties as medical professionals.

 

[OoflowerbudoO]

This wasn't "your" nurse or doctor. It was just someone working at a covid testing site on a cruise ship. My level of disappointment would have been the same regardless of how I got the news. I don't think any amount of empathy or sympathy from a complete stranger would change that. Fortunately, kids seem to get over things quickly.

Yes, I guess standard sensitivity and empathy for other human beings is too much to ask for in this day and age. And you are right, the kids seem fine now. We are doing our best for them to have some sort of vacation.

 

[OoflowerbudoO]

Sorry yes the original post was three pages back. The other sibling and a "disney rep" were present in the room. I am an MD also. Providing test results in front of siblings or a "rep" is 100% a privacy violation unless consent was explicitly provided. I am VERY careful about delivering test results to families - esp siblings. This could be fodder for years to come, and is totally avoidable. Mom and dad should have been given the option to have privacy with the child. (maybe they did - who knows?) Was speaking in general about our duties as medical professionals.

Agree, thank you. We were not given the option of having this news delivered in any other way.

 

[dreynolds1982]

We did not. Our whole family had it around Christmas time (because multiple family members tested positive but not all of us), and I tested myself about a week before and was negative. So I assumed we all were infected and recovered. Turns out my oldest managed to avoid it at christmas and pick it up for the cruise

That is brutal, so sorry!!! The asymptomatic part is the real kicker. That's why I'm going to be obsessively testing in the comings weeks! The idea that I could have it at any point between now and then and not realize, and then test positive at the port, is too dang anxiety inducing!

 

[DCLMP]

Yes, I guess standard sensitivity and empathy for other human beings is too much to ask for in this day and age. And you are right, the kids seem fine now. We are doing our best for them to have some sort of vacation.

It's not something I ever count on.

 

[Kimpossible1]

Absolutely it would’ve made a difference. People don’t get mad at healthcare professionals for their diagnosis, they get mad because they think they were treated poorly or with a lack of empathy. That’s why bedside manner matters so much right? The feeling of whether or not your nurse or doctor cares about you and what is happening to you? Delivery of bad news, empathy, and regarding families in the context of what they are experiencing is fundamental to practicing good medicine on human beings…. Of course it would not have saved us from the disappointment, but it would’ve made it better for sure.

I appreciate your knowledge as a physician and know that you understand the complexities of situations involving healthcare personnel. I wish you would have added that to your original post as I would have been more on "your side" rather than thinking this is a mad mom, bashing a poor nurse There are plenty of unappealing nurses out there who do not behave the way they should or how we think they should, but unfortunately that is part of life too ☹ I'm sorry that you had this experience, and I'm sorry if I came across as insensitive.
I went on a cruise in December, and am going again in a few weeks and have plans B, C and D Hopefully you will get to cruise soon

 

[OoflowerbudoO]

It's not something I ever count on.

That is fair and many healthcare workers are simply too burnt out to muster up empathy, I get that. Not saying this RN should be fired at all, but there’s a probably a way to make this less unpleasant for her as well, especially if the parents are willing to tell their children the bad news.

 

[dreynolds1982]

Rapid antigen tests aren't as accurate as PCR tests. Testing 2-3 days before sailing will catch fewer cases than testing at the port. It really sucks when you fail the test, but Disney's method will result in fewer cases onboard the ship than the others. I much prefer it this way, even with the added stress.

While that is certainly true, it's not like other ships are having massive outbreaks or anything bc they are testing 2 days out instead of at the port. Plus the current guidance for cruises allows for testing 2 days out (it says either testing before, or at the port, are both acceptable). While testing at the port may weed out a few more cases, I personally doubt there are that many people with low viral loads or early stage covid that it makes a statistically significant difference (though I admittedly have NOT stats to back this up, so I could be totally wrong). If it did, the cruise guidance would only allow for at the port testing.

I certainly see both sides of the argument of at the port vs 2 day advance testing. When I read stories like this though it really breaks my heart. I personally just think 2 day testing would allow for SO much more flexibility and peace of mind, but, that's totally just my opinion.

FWIW, Norwegian is now switching from at the port to 2 day testing. Will be curious to see if DCL sticks to their guns of if they make the move soon too.

 

[OoflowerbudoO]

I appreciate your knowledge as a physician and know that you understand the complexities of situations involving healthcare personnel. I wish you would have added that to your original post as I would have been more on "your side" rather than thinking this is a mad mom, bashing a poor nurse There are plenty of unappealing nurses out there who do not behave the way they should or how we think they should, but unfortunately that is part of life too ☹ I'm sorry that you had this experience, and I'm sorry if I came across as insensitive.
I went on a cruise in December, and am going again in a few weeks and have plans B, C and D Hopefully you will get to cruise soon

Yeah right?? We won’t cruise until next year at least I think. I don’t usually broadcast I’m a physician unless it’s relevant, and it became relevant. We experienced this thing as parents with 2 kids, not me as an emergency doctor so that is the perspective you are seeing. If I were the supervising physician, I probably would have some suggestions on how to change the protocols for telling families. My husband, not in healthcare, 100% feels that this RN should be fired. But I feel very strongly that when things like this happen, it’s generally a system/protocol issue and not an individual issue. A very simple fix would be to pull the parents aside for 2 minutes, and let them decide how to do this.

edit: also give us the internet access sooner so we can get out

 

[JWG]

Ugh, so sorry to here this happened. Our DD had to recently test for an overnight school activity (Youth in Government) and tested positive and she had to miss it. She was crushed. Never would have tested or known if not for the requirement. She had taken an antigen the day before with the ever popular false negative so was feeling good. I can't imagine if this was for a cruise and impacted others. I hope your son is ok as you get further from the event.

It does seem like time for DCL to move to a PCR within 48-72 hours versus at the port. As the Wish comes online and they return to full ships I can't imagine trying to get 4,000 people through this process effectively.

We are booked late this year on a Wish B2B and are fearful of having to do this process twice.

 

[princesscinderella]

Thanks for everyone and their kind comments. The purpose of the story was to tell you logistically what happens if you test positive at port. Nothing will stop your family from being disappointed, but at least you will anticipate what might happen. Anticipate that you might be told this information rather bluntly and insensitively. Anticipate that you will have no internet access to pull the trigger on your plan B. Anticipate that it will be much more heart breaking to do this all in front of the ship. That is all. We will be fine. We will go on more vacations, and luckily all healthy and well. Thank you for your kindness and empathy.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m so sorry you were not able to sail. We are 59 days out from our sailing on the fantasy and I plan to get pcr testing for the whole family next week, at the 30 mark and 14 day mark just in case they read positive. I know we all just want to get back to cruising without the fear of not being able to board or getting covid and having to quarantine.

 

[anjuan]

While that is certainly true, it's not like other ships are having massive outbreaks or anything bc they are testing 2 days out instead of at the port. Plus the current guidance for cruises allows for testing 2 days out (it says either testing before, or at the port, are both acceptable). While testing at the port may weed out a few more cases, I personally doubt there are that many people with low viral loads or early stage covid that it makes a statistically significant difference (though I admittedly have NOT stats to back this up, so I could be totally wrong). If it did, the cruise guidance would only allow for at the port testing.

I certainly see both sides of the argument of at the port vs 2 day advance testing. When I read stories like this though it really breaks my heart. I personally just think 2 day testing would allow for SO much more flexibility and peace of mind, but, that's totally just my opinion.

FWIW, Norwegian is now switching from at the port to 2 day testing. Will be curious to see if DCL sticks to their guns of if they make the move soon too.

We recently went on a RCL cruise over Christmas. We did the required rapid antigen test 2 days prior and it was negative. We went on the cruise and a couple of days into it my daughter developed symptoms and tested positive. They then gave us free WIFI and she found out that 6 other girls on her swim team tested positive. I believe that she got COVID from her swim team and think that testing at port would have caught this. The ship staff then asked about close contacts and 2 of the 4 kids she hung around with also tested positive but didn't have symptoms at that time. One developed symptoms a few days later and the other didn't. My daughter was the most upset because she felt that she spread COVID to her friends on the ship. (The physician onboard had an amazing bedside manner and told her it wasn't her fault.)

I'm not saying that shoreside testing will catch every case, but I think it would have caught our case and we wouldn't have been stuck in a small room for several days at sea. We also experienced DCL testing in October and agree that both methods have positive and negative points.

To the OP: I'm sorry you experienced this. It's no fun to have your vacation plans turned upside down.