Fastpass return or replacement?

[Marionnette]

Did they, even in the 80s/early 90s? I’m 37 and having been going since I was very young, so mid 80s. I genuinely can’t remember what the perks were back then.

ETA: and I don’t mean just the days before legacy FP. I don’t recall any onsite bonus for paper FP. I could be wrong, but I don’t remember it. Which would mean there was an era where FP existed but onsite guests weren’t given any superior access to it.

I think you're missing the point, which is that there is currently no real incentive for people to pay to stay onsite.

They used to get both morning and evening magic hours every day. They don't anymore. They get 30 minutes in the morning at any park. But the killer is that they don't need to stay onsite to enjoy that benefit. They can stay at any number of participating offsite hotels and be able to walk into the parks a half hour early.

If you're lucky enough to be staying at a deluxe resort on a Monday or Wednesday night, you get 2 extra hours at either MK or Epcot...or you can save money and stay at the Swan or Dolphin and get the same benefit.

Complimentary overnight parking gone. But rack rates didn't go down to reflect that.

Good-bye Magic Express. Hello Mear$.

So, what's the incentive to stay onsite? A few complimentary LPs might be a good reason. Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean that they can't do it now.

 

[snowwhite84]

I think you're missing the point, which is that there is currently no real incentive for people to pay to stay onsite.

They used to get both morning and evening magic hours every day. They don't anymore. They get 30 minutes in the morning at any park. But the killer is that they don't need to stay onsite to enjoy that benefit. They can stay at any number of participating offsite hotels and be able to walk into the parks a half hour early.

If you're lucky enough to be staying at a deluxe resort on a Monday or Wednesday night, you get 2 extra hours at either MK or Epcot...or you can save money and stay at the Swan or Dolphin and get the same benefit.

Complimentary overnight parking gone. But rack rates didn't go down to reflect that.

Good-bye Magic Express. Hello Mear$.

So, what's the incentive to stay onsite? A few complimentary LPs might be a good reason. Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean that they can't do it now.

I was positing that there was an era of Disney, not too long ago, where there was similarly no real incentive to stay onsite. People did it because they liked being on Disney property.

I was asking if there was, and I don’t remember it. I don’t recall EMH in the early 90s. Maybe there was and I just don’t recall.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I was positing that there was an era of Disney, not too long ago, where there was similarly no real incentive to stay onsite. People did it because they liked being on Disney property.

I was asking if there was, and I don’t remember it. I don’t recall EMH in the early 90s. Maybe there was and I just don’t recall.

Honestly, before the early 90s they didn’t have value resorts. They built them because they had a market for them, but now those hotel rooms aren’t nearly as nice as many of the ones off site, and are twice as much.

there should be perks for paying those rates.

 

[winthropf]

There weren't any advertised onsite perks for legacy FP. The perks back then were morning and evening EMH that were actually a full hour EVERY morning in one park or another and 2 hours EVERY night, 7 nights a weeks, in a designated park each night. And there were fewer onsite hotel rooms back then plus longer park hours to begin with.

I remember when the evening EMH was 3 hours. It wasn't too long ago that it changed to 2 hours.

 

[Marionnette]

I remember when the evening EMH was 3 hours. It wasn't too long ago that it changed to 2 hours.

I remember it as well. But back then it was advertised as "at least 2 hours" and was quite often longer. A classic example of how Disney would under promise and over deliver just to give themselves a little wiggle room.

 

[cakebaker]

I was positing that there was an era of Disney, not too long ago, where there was similarly no real incentive to stay onsite. People did it because they liked being on Disney property.

I was asking if there was, and I don’t remember it. I don’t recall EMH in the early 90s. Maybe there was and I just don’t recall.

There was a time when you could buy evening hours if you were a resort guest- it's been too long for me to remember what they called them, but it was $10 for 3 hrs in the MK. It was wonderful, nearly empty parks at the time because there weren't that many resorts. The reason they kept adding perks is because they weren't filling all the resorts they were building. But just the paid extra hours were worth staying on site for.

We have always stayed on site and for as long as we go to WDW, we'll continue to do so. But, we stay deluxe or DVC and with the convenience of transportation to the MK along with the more exclusive EMH's, we'll stil stay on site. The bubble factors in too, but that's one that you either get it or you don't. I wouldn't say there was plenty of incentives, there needs to be more for the price we pay, but I'm hoping that discounts will return or they'll be something tossed our way with the new FP system.

For us, when and if the day comes that staying on site doesn't get us more than a bubble, we just won't go to WDW anymore. I have no interest at all in going and not being on property.

 

[luv2cheer92]

There is still plenty of incentive for me to stay onsite. Transportation/proximity has always been my #1 perk. But that's not the only reason I prefer it.

 

[New Mouse]

There is still plenty of incentive for me to stay onsite. Transportation/proximity has always been my #1 perk. But that's not the only reason I prefer it.

Swan Dolphin and all the hotels in the area offer similar for less.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

Yeah — that’s true for life in general. If you’re not prepared to pay for your big family, maybe consider whether to have a big family in the first place?

our large family started with a family of 4 is now a family of 12 with grandkids included

 

[snowwhite84]

There is still plenty of incentive for me to stay onsite. Transportation/proximity has always been my #1 perk. But that's not the only reason I prefer it.

Same

 

[ForWhomTheMouseTolls]

our large family started with a family of 4 is now a family of 12 with grandkids included

Ok, but that was true of your family when you were younger unless you had no parents or siblings.

 

[Nabas]

There is still plenty of incentive for me to stay onsite. Transportation/proximity has always been my #1 perk. But that's not the only reason I prefer it.

Really though, the best reason to stay onsite has always been to stay "in the bubble." Once you exit WDW property by driving under one of the WDW entrance signs, it feels like you are returning to the real world. It kinda kills the vacation feel.

This is the advantage of a handful of other hotels: Swan, Dolphin, Wyndham Bonnet Creek, Waldorf Astoria, Four Seasons. You effectively remain within the bubble.

 

[snowwhite84]

our large family started with a family of 4 is now a family of 12 with grandkids included

Ok, but that was true of your family when you were younger unless you had no parents or siblings.

Yeah, I can’t understand this argument. It’s true for most people. When I was a kid if I went with my parents, we were three. If I went with grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins, we were larger. Today, my husband and I are three. If we go with my parents and stepfamily, we are bigger.

Complaining that something is unfair for larger families could be true of everything. It’s like saying the fact Disney charges a ticket cost for each member is unfair.

And presumably, if you’re traveling with multigenerational family, one person doesn’t have to pay for everyone.

 

[snowwhite84]

Really though, the best reason to stay onsite has always been to stay "in the bubble." Once you exit WDW property by driving under one of the WDW entrance signs, it feels like you are returning to the real world. It kinda kills the vacation feel.

This is the advantage of a handful of other hotels: Swan, Dolphin, Wyndham Bonnet Creek, Waldorf Astoria, Four Seasons. You effectively remain within the bubble.

Yes, this is what I pay for. I check out of the real world.

 

[ThistleMae]

There was a time when you could buy evening hours if you were a resort guest- it's been too long for me to remember what they called them, but it was $10 for 3 hrs in the MK. It was wonderful, nearly empty parks at the time because there weren't that many resorts. The reason they kept adding perks is because they weren't filling all the resorts they were building. But just the paid extra hours were worth staying on site for.

We have always stayed on site and for as long as we go to WDW, we'll continue to do so. But, we stay deluxe or DVC and with the convenience of transportation to the MK along with the more exclusive EMH's, we'll stil stay on site. The bubble factors in too, but that's one that you either get it or you don't. I wouldn't say there was plenty of incentives, there needs to be more for the price we pay, but I'm hoping that discounts will return or they'll be something tossed our way with the new FP system.

For us, when and if the day comes that staying on site doesn't get us more than a bubble, we just won't go to WDW anymore. I have no interest at all in going and not being on property.

I too enjoy the bubble, incentives or not. For me, I love the feeling of being immersed in Disney. Even thinking of staying offsite makes me not want to go.

 

[Arym]

There weren't any advertised onsite perks for legacy FP. The perks back then were morning and evening EMH that were actually a full hour EVERY morning in one park or another and 2 hours EVERY night, 7 nights a weeks, in a designated park each night. And there were fewer onsite hotel rooms back then plus longer park hours to begin with.

A pp pointed out that it was often advertised as 2 hours, with 3 hours as a bonus. I remember when it was advertised as 3 hours! I have a pic of us leaving MK at 3am after it closed at midnight for regular guests. What a fun time! (Maybe not being up at 3am but having an empty park was awesome.)

Ahem! Cough! Cough!

Universal Express Pass. Included in all stays at Portofino Bay, Hard Rock and Royal Pacific.

There are other hotels that offer a FOTL perk and not just when bookings are light.

Right, and WDW is not Hershey Park, Six Flags, or even Universal in touring days. You go to Hershey for one, maybe two days at the most. Same with Six Flags. Even Universal is half the parks WDW is. Paying for FP in four parks, and probably for more than one day each, is MUCH different than paying for one or two days.

There was a time when you could buy evening hours if you were a resort guest- it's been too long for me to remember what they called them, but it was $10 for 3 hrs in the MK. It was wonderful, nearly empty parks at the time because there weren't that many resorts. The reason they kept adding perks is because they weren't filling all the resorts they were building. But just the paid extra hours were worth staying on site for.

For us, when and if the day comes that staying on site doesn't get us more than a bubble, we just won't go to WDW anymore. I have no interest at all in going and not being on property.

I remember AP holders having special nights that were super cheap, maybe $10, or were they even free. We rode BTMR in the rain over and over. Our kids thought that was so much fun. Such a great perk.

Thinking about some of this makes me sad. WDW vacations were always such great times for us. It was our family's "thing." Our daughter even works for Disney, now. It's so sad that now I just feel so much stress about our upcoming trip. I feel like Disney always took care of their guests but now I feel like they are looking for every way to nickel and dime them. I know they are a business but that doesn't mean they need to treat guests like this. And, I say that as I have a child benefiting from the money they make.
On that note, I see, through my daughter, the passion so many Disney people have for the magic. It's those people that I try to think of when I start getting irritated about the corporate greed. There are so many people who fight to keep Disney what it has always been. The magic will not die if they have anything to say and do about it. I just hope they are allowed to keep it alive.

Sorry for the rambling...just some Saturday morning thoughts.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Swan Dolphin and all the hotels in the area offer similar for less.

S/D is about the only offsite hotels i would even consider. Though they usually aren't cheaper than my preferred hotel. Their transportation to MK kinda stinks though.

 

[DisneyAuntie12]

Complaining that something is unfair for larger families could be true of everything. It’s like saying the fact Disney charges a ticket cost for each member is unfair.

Sorry to broken-record this one, but I just wanted to clarify, as I have been on the "not family friendly" grumble train. I do not think it's unfair for Disney to add more per-person fees. They're a private company, this is a free country, and they can do whatever they want on that front.

What I'm saying is that it disincentivizes families and groups more so than single travelers, as they are in the position of paying for multiple members including dependents who can't pay their own way. Group costs do the exact opposite of this. A VIP tour, for example, makes way more sense for a group to go in on together. Same for a big beach house where two or three families might share the cost. Or a rental unit with a kitchen where bulk groceries (a loaf of bread, a big box of pasta, etc.) can be shared among members; or a rental vehicle that can be used by multiple people; or chartering a boat on a vacation.

In other situations I actually feel single or duo travelers are the one at a disadvantage - beach rentals, for examples, are often sprawling, huge houses made for large groups to chip in on together, and it can be quite difficult to find a reasonable rental for a single couple in some areas. If you go to anything with "arcade style" pricing, however, that really disincentivizes going in a group including dependents or nonpaying members. Then your costs are cut exponentially by traveling in a smaller unit.

 

[Heather07438]

Nobody needs to stay onsite. Nobody needs to buy AH tickets. If I found offsite a better value I'd stay offsite. If I found AH tickets weren't a good value we'd decline, and sometimes we do just that and still have a fabulous trip. Next trip we're staying onsite and personally there is not anywhere offsite that provided a better value, not even close. We choose to go to WDW when we can find a good deal. We don't begrudge those choosing to visit Christmas to New Year. Good for them! Sounds like fun- and expensive.

The big question with Genie is will people need to buy LPs. Can we still have an awesome trip without? We don't know yet. There are always choices. A 1-day ticket is well over $100 but if you're AP or go down for the week with a multi-day ticket it's much less. We can buy a 2-day hopper and knock out plenty while saving a ton on food/room, or we can get cheaper tickets and spend more on room/food. WDW has always been about choices like whether to go or not, how much to spend on what, and which enhancements if any were worth the splurge. I expect this to be no different.

Worst case scenario is Genie self corrects. It's so horrible people stop going and that will remove the need to buy LP.

 

[cakebaker]

Nobody needs to stay onsite. Nobody needs to buy AH tickets.

WDW is a vacation. There is no aspect of it that is a need other than what you need to make it worth going and that is different for everyone. So yes, I need to stay on site. If I don't stay on site, I won't enjoy it and would be wasting my money. For that same reason, I need some FP style access that I can pay for and not want to poke myself in the eye for doing it and I need parades and shows.

The rest of it are just wants.