For what reasons could you be requested to go through the full body scanners?

[ccgirl]

As another poster said, there aren't enough scanners to handle all the traffic. Also TSA claims (as of today) that the WBI aren't primary screening tools. To which I reply - yet.



Yes, a patdown that they won't describe to you ahead of time but which reportedly involves grasping the genital region and the chest (of women).

They have described the pat down several places. It is basically like the old pat down but they use the palm of the hand rather than the back of the hand.

So some perv somewhere is looking at naked pics of you.

Come one now...do you really think the people looking at the pics of you are pervs? They are doing their jobs. They actually do not see who you are; just your body image. Then they radio to the TSA agent that you are all clear.

Yes, I just read some VERY disturbing articles about this. http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-...uralnews.com/030351_TSA_airport_security.html
The second one brings up a VERY worrisome point: What if they choose my kids to go through. This is in DIRECT opposition to Child Porn laws!!?? AND what if I choose not to go through, but get the enhanced 'pat down'?? I tell my kids "NO one can touch you there" If they see ME being touched all over......am I now supposed to add "Unless he's a government official" ....this is really infuriating that the government can ignore my constitutional rights, but if I'm doing 5 mph over the speed limit my butt's in trouble!!!

Way to add to the hysteria. Why are you talking about child porn laws. They are not fondling your children. My DH had this just this past Sunday as he moved in the backscatter. He did not consider it invasive at all. He likened it to getting into a sports stadium or concert. They did not fondle him at all. Did they run their hand over his privates? Yes, but he wasn't offended at all. Just explain to your children what they are looking for. Add that when you fly this happens. This is not done in a completely private area so you can see your children at all times. I really think people need to stop sexualizing these pat downs.

As far as the radiation, I posted in another thread that the radiation of the backscatter is equal to 2 minutes of a cross country flight. The backscatter radiation bounces off the body (hence the term backscatter) while x-rays are designed to penetrate the body. The backscatter omits 0.1 microvert of radiation, a chest x-ray 100 microverts and a CT Scan 10,000 microverts. I think if people go into this thinking, I may get selected for pat downs and it is not a sexual thing, and go into it with more of a positive attitude, they might be a little happier. When you go into things with a negative attitude, things tend to end negatively.

As far as airports, I believe BOS has them already. I know we went thru them for Air Tran. Fort Myers did not have them; they just had the old machines.

 

[disney's daughter]

What happens to our carry on luggage and purses while we are being scanned? That is my main worry.....As it is now, I get concerned about my belongings traveling down the belt while I get checked.....Otherwise...I guess It doesn't bother as much to be "scanned"....

 

[CPT Tripss]

They have described the pat down several places. It is basically like the old pat down but they use the palm of the hand rather than the back of the hand.

Come one now...do you really think the people looking at the pics of you are pervs? They are doing their jobs. They actually do not see who you are; just your body image. Then they radio to the TSA agent that you are all clear.


Way to add to the hysteria. Why are you talking about child porn laws. They are not fondling your children. My DH had this just this past Sunday as he moved in the backscatter. He did not consider it invasive at all. He likened it to getting into a sports stadium or concert. They did not fondle him at all. Did they run their hand over his privates? Yes, but he wasn't offended at all. Just explain to your children what they are looking for. Add that when you fly this happens. This is not done in a completely private area so you can see your children at all times. I really think people need to stop sexualizing these pat downs.

As far as the radiation, I posted in another thread that the radiation of the backscatter is equal to 2 minutes of a cross country flight. The backscatter radiation bounces off the body (hence the term backscatter) while x-rays are designed to penetrate the body. The backscatter omits 0.1 microvert of radiation, a chest x-ray 100 microverts and a CT Scan 10,000 microverts. I think if people go into this thinking, I may get selected for pat downs and it is not a sexual thing, and go into it with more of a positive attitude, they might be a little happier. When you go into things with a negative attitude, things tend to end negatively.

As far as airports, I believe BOS has them already. I know we went thru them for Air Tran. Fort Myers did not have them; they just had the old machines.

There are many reports on numerous boards, including boards frequented by TSA employees, that describe, "grasping," "cupping," and "lifting" of body parts legally required to be covered. Not every time I'm sure, but once is one too many.

Why won't TSA publicize what amount of touching/grasping their employees are permitted to do?

 

[disneyfan55]

There are many reports on numerous boards, including boards frequented by TSA employees, that describe, "grasping," "cupping," and "lifting" of body parts legally required to be covered. Not every time I'm sure, but once is one too many.

Why won't TSA publicize what amount of touching/grasping their employees are permitted to do?

Exactly many are being reported. Many people are drawn to jobs that allow a perversion of course not all but that seems to happen.

 

[hmp2z]

OK, here are a few links I think are useful. First, here is a video of a 3-year-old girl being forced to go through the pat-down process (this was taken BEFORE the "enhanced" pat-down process, which is much more intimate and is what would be used today). http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2010/11/scanner.html

Regarding how people are "randomly" selected at those airports where the naked body screeners are used, here's the tale of a captain from Skywest airlines whose 18-year-old daughter was pulled for the secondary screening when the TSA agent radioed "Got a cutie for you," and then proceeded to pull her from the line:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1147497-tso-saying-heads-up-got-cutie-you.html

And here's the tale of a family with a 9-year-old child who was pulled for a full-on groping after fidgeting inside the whole-body scanner (see post #6 for relevant tale):
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1306241

The body of evidence is mounting that these types of scans are simply unacceptable, especially for law-abiding Americans, and especially considering that cargo planes flying into the US from other countries don't even have their contents (packages) routinely x-rayed.

I'd rather not fly then be photographed nude or go through the "enhanced" pat-down, which would involve, as a woman, my crotch being rubbed and palmed twice, then my breasts twisted twice each. No thanks, TSA. I'll keep that kind of intimacy between myself and my husband.

Cheers!
Heather

 

[disneyfan55]

OK, here are a few links I think are useful. First, here is a video of a 3-year-old girl being forced to go through the pat-down process (this was taken BEFORE the "enhanced" pat-down process, which is much more intimate and is what would be used today). http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2010/11/scanner.html

Regarding how people are "randomly" selected at those airports where the naked body screeners are used, here's the tale of a captain from Skywest airlines whose 18-year-old daughter was pulled for the secondary screening when the TSA agent radioed "Got a cutie for you," and then proceeded to pull her from the line:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1147497-tso-saying-heads-up-got-cutie-you.html

And here's the tale of a family with a 9-year-old child who was pulled for a full-on groping after fidgeting inside the whole-body scanner (see post #6 for relevant tale):
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1306241

The body of evidence is mounting that these types of scans are simply unacceptable, especially for law-abiding Americans, and especially considering that cargo planes flying into the US from other countries don't even have their contents (packages) routinely x-rayed.

I'd rather not fly then be photographed nude or go through the "enhanced" pat-down, which would involve, as a woman, my crotch being rubbed and palmed twice, then my breasts twisted twice each. No thanks, TSA. I'll keep that kind of intimacy between myself and my husband.

Cheers!
Heather

Really sick stuff. I really don't know where we are going in this country, but all this invasion of privacy has to stop. These xray machines are gradually being implemented in many other places as well. I will not fly or go to places with these machines. They also have the backscatter machines in 'mobile vans' in various police stations in the US as well.

 

[CJsMom]

I flew home from Tampa last week, and like a total idiot, left my cell phone in my pocket. I was about to go through the regular security line when they spotted the phone and pulled me aside for the full body scan and pat-down. It took only a few minutes, a woman patted me down (and I didn't have to request it), and there was no "groping" or "fondling". I was asked to keep an eye on my personal belongings (which had gone through the scanner) while they patted me down - so there was no worry of someone stealing my stuff while I was occupied with security. I just felt embarrassed that I forgot to empty my pockets!

 

[disneyfan55]

I flew home from Tampa last week, and like a total idiot, left my cell phone in my pocket. I was about to go through the regular security line when they spotted the phone and pulled me aside for the full body scan and pat-down. It took only a few minutes, a woman patted me down (and I didn't have to request it), and there was no "groping" or "fondling". I was asked to keep an eye on my personal belongings (which had gone through the scanner) while they patted me down - so there was no worry of someone stealing my stuff while I was occupied with security. I just felt embarrassed that I forgot to empty my pockets!

so they scanned and pat down?

 

[emh1129]

OK, here are a few links I think are useful. First, here is a video of a 3-year-old girl being forced to go through the pat-down process (this was taken BEFORE the "enhanced" pat-down process, which is much more intimate and is what would be used today). http://blog.nj.com/njv_paul_mulshine/2010/11/scanner.html

Regarding how people are "randomly" selected at those airports where the naked body screeners are used, here's the tale of a captain from Skywest airlines whose 18-year-old daughter was pulled for the secondary screening when the TSA agent radioed "Got a cutie for you," and then proceeded to pull her from the line:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1147497-tso-saying-heads-up-got-cutie-you.html

And here's the tale of a family with a 9-year-old child who was pulled for a full-on groping after fidgeting inside the whole-body scanner (see post #6 for relevant tale):
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1306241

The body of evidence is mounting that these types of scans are simply unacceptable, especially for law-abiding Americans, and especially considering that cargo planes flying into the US from other countries don't even have their contents (packages) routinely x-rayed.

I'd rather not fly then be photographed nude or go through the "enhanced" pat-down, which would involve, as a woman, my crotch being rubbed and palmed twice, then my breasts twisted twice each. No thanks, TSA. I'll keep that kind of intimacy between myself and my husband.

Cheers!
Heather

Thanks for posting those links.. it's all just mind-boggling..

 

[CJsMom]

so they scanned and pat down?

Yes, because apparently the picture in the scanner was not conclusive as to whether or not I had something else in another pocket (I had on cargo pants with several pockets). She patted down my legs to make sure the pockets were empty.

 

[dudspizza]

The hysteria over this is absolutely amazing to me..........

 

[Hannathy]

The hysteria over this is absolutely amazing to me..........

I so agree, unbelievable.

 

[18sprint]

There are a lot of pros and cons of any of the procedures that the TSA has come up with and with that in mind, you can expect, at best 80% of human inspection to find anything. That's simple statistics. The TSA has a responsibility larger than most people can fathom. Millions of people get on planes every day and all it takes is one nut to bring one down. Are you really willing to take a chance so that you don't have to stand in line, or have a stranger pat your butt to see if you are concealing something? It's amazing to me that they still allow carry-on luggage, or at best, any electronic devices that could easily conceal explosive devices or weapons. What about our checked luggage? I don't know what kind of test it goes through, if any, but I often wonder what keeps someone from putting a device in the luggage and remotely set it off. My opinion is simple: scan me, pat me down, strip search if they feel the need. I have nothing to hide. I want a safe trip for me and my family as well as everyone on the plane with us. This is what we must endure if we want to fly. Otherwise, get in your car and drive. Can drive? Oh well.

 

[Super 27]

The hysteria over this is absolutely amazing to me..........

Agreed. This is all being blown way out of proportion.

First off, these scanners are not the "porn machines" that people are making them out to be. Your face is blurred, certain parts of your body is obscured, and despite what the sensationalist conspiracy-theorists in the media would have you believe, the images ARE immediately deleted. As for radiation, unless you are flying every day, it's not an issue. And if you ARE flying every day, you are getting FAR more radiation exposure during the flights themselves than from these scanners, so it's a moot point.

But, that said, if somebody still doesn't want to be scanned, they have the right to opt out. In fact, you even have the right to opt out of the metal detector AND opt out of having your bags x-rayed. You can always request the pat-down, and you can request that your bags be physically inspected and/or examined with trace explosive detection equipment. All options are perfectly legal (the only thing you can't pick between is image scanner and x-ray - they pick that for you, and then you can opt-out and go to the pat-down if you so desire).

Of course, you also have the right to opt out of all airport security screening entirely. To my knowledge, neither Greyhound nor Amtrak use AIT scanners or pat-downs.

Now, I'm not supporting everything TSA does, nor do I personally believe that the majority of what they do is particularly effective. However, it is what it is. And if some of the precautions that they take make it even a little bit harder for the bad guys, so be it. I deal with airport security every single day just to get to work, and it's something that I accept as part of the job. As does anyone who works not only in airports, but in a courthouse, federal building, certain state buildings, prisons, etc. Sadly, airports have been made into targets that require the same level of security as such "high risk" facilities, and I do believe that the TSA is at least making a good-faith effort to balance that need for security with the need for efficiency and some degree of privacy.

 

[CPT Tripss]

The hysteria over this is absolutely amazing to me..........

I so agree, unbelievable.

Agreed. This is all being blown way out of proportion.

First off, these scanners are not the "porn machines" that people are making them out to be. Your face is blurred, certain parts of your body is obscured, and despite what the sensationalist conspiracy-theorists in the media would have you believe, the images ARE immediately deleted. As for radiation, unless you are flying every day, it's not an issue. And if you ARE flying every day, you are getting FAR more radiation exposure during the flights themselves than from these scanners, so it's a moot point.

But, that said, if somebody still doesn't want to be scanned, they have the right to opt out. In fact, you even have the right to opt out of the metal detector AND opt out of having your bags x-rayed. You can always request the pat-down, and you can request that your bags be physically inspected and/or examined with trace explosive detection equipment. All options are perfectly legal (the only thing you can't pick between is image scanner and x-ray - they pick that for you, and then you can opt-out and go to the pat-down if you so desire).

Of course, you also have the right to opt out of all airport security screening entirely. To my knowledge, neither Greyhound nor Amtrak use AIT scanners or pat-downs.

Now, I'm not supporting everything TSA does, nor do I personally believe that the majority of what they do is particularly effective. However, it is what it is. And if some of the precautions that they take make it even a little bit harder for the bad guys, so be it. I deal with airport security every single day just to get to work, and it's something that I accept as part of the job. As does anyone who works not only in airports, but in a courthouse, federal building, certain state buildings, prisons, etc. Sadly, airports have been made into targets that require the same level of security as such "high risk" facilities, and I do believe that the TSA is at least making a good-faith effort to balance that need for security with the need for efficiency and some degree of privacy.

Yeah, hysterical. "Good faith?" Really?

"You touch my junk I'll have you arrested." The guy clearly indicated his willingness to leave, they escorted him out and then came after him with threats of fines. (They=TSA).

By the way, pulling the next person in line after an "opt out" isn't random.

 

[Super 27]

Yeah, hysterical. "Good faith?" Really?

Everybody wants to complain and say that the TSA is doing something bad, but I still haven't heard anyone that's complaining come up with an actual SOLUTION. And not the solution like everyone else who is complaining and say "just go back to the way it used to be". Because a step backwards is still a step backwards, and like I said, even if these new measures make it ever so slightly more difficult for those intent on harming us, that's good enough for me. Cuz remember, they're plotting and scheming while we are sleeping.

"You touch my junk I'll have you arrested." The guy clearly indicated his willingness to leave, they escorted him out and then came after him with threats of fines. (They=TSA).

I'm sorry, but this guy was way out of line during that entire video. I honestly don't see how anyone can listen to him whining and being a baby about things and still feel sorry for him. Regardless of whether the first TSA guy made a mistake, the second guy was correct - once you submit yourself for screening, you are required to complete it; no if's, and's, or but's. They have signs up to that effect all over the area by the checkpoints, and the policy was upheld by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in U.S. v. Aukai (2007).

By the way, pulling the next person in line after an "opt out" isn't random.

It is NOT supposed to be random. As the TSA person in the video said, the AIT machines are the PRIMARY screening method at that airport. While the walk-through metal detector is still used for efficiency purposes for many passengers, they have the right to send as few or as many people as they want through the AIT machine.

 

[jodifla]

Everybody wants to complain and say that the TSA is doing something bad, but I still haven't heard anyone that's complaining come up with an actual SOLUTION. And not the solution like everyone else who is complaining and say "just go back to the way it used to be". Because a step backwards is still a step backwards, and like I said, even if these new measures make it ever so slightly more difficult for those intent on harming us, that's good enough for me. Cuz remember, they're plotting and scheming while we are sleeping.



I'm sorry, but this guy was way out of line during that entire video. I honestly don't see how anyone can listen to him whining and being a baby about things and still feel sorry for him. Regardless of whether the first TSA guy made a mistake, the second guy was correct - once you submit yourself for screening, you are required to complete it; no if's, and's, or but's. They have signs up to that effect all over the area by the checkpoints, and the policy was upheld by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in U.S. v. Aukai (2007).



It is NOT supposed to be random. As the TSA person in the video said, the AIT machines are the PRIMARY screening method at that airport. While the walk-through metal detector is still used for efficiency purposes for many passengers, they have the right to send as few or as many people as they want through the AIT machine.

The TSA tried these very aggressive pat downs in 2004, but backed off when people complained.

The House has already passed a bill saying these machines can't be used as primary screeners. Hopefully, the Senate will follow.

What will actually likely stop them from being used as primary screeners is that they take too long to process people.

I'm surprised all the focus stays on airplanes. Why not stadiums (the checks are cursory at best) or big office buildings, subways, trains, buses, etc. All those places are likely targets.

 

[CPT Tripss]

The TSAer's assertion that the scanners are "primary" is contradictory to sworn testimony from DHS officials and the TSA pr on their web site.

Look where the risks are - air cargo. Plug the huge holes there.

 

[padawans]

Agreed. This is all being blown way out of proportion.

First off, these scanners are not the "porn machines" that people are making them out to be. Your face is blurred, certain parts of your body is obscured, and despite what the sensationalist conspiracy-theorists in the media would have you believe, the images ARE immediately deleted. As for radiation, unless you are flying every day, it's not an issue. And if you ARE flying every day, you are getting FAR more radiation exposure during the flights themselves than from these scanners, so it's a moot point.

But, that said, if somebody still doesn't want to be scanned, they have the right to opt out. In fact, you even have the right to opt out of the metal detector AND opt out of having your bags x-rayed. You can always request the pat-down, and you can request that your bags be physically inspected and/or examined with trace explosive detection equipment. All options are perfectly legal (the only thing you can't pick between is image scanner and x-ray - they pick that for you, and then you can opt-out and go to the pat-down if you so desire).

Of course, you also have the right to opt out of all airport security screening entirely. To my knowledge, neither Greyhound nor Amtrak use AIT scanners or pat-downs.

Now, I'm not supporting everything TSA does, nor do I personally believe that the majority of what they do is particularly effective. However, it is what it is. And if some of the precautions that they take make it even a little bit harder for the bad guys, so be it. I deal with airport security every single day just to get to work, and it's something that I accept as part of the job. As does anyone who works not only in airports, but in a courthouse, federal building, certain state buildings, prisons, etc. Sadly, airports have been made into targets that require the same level of security as such "high risk" facilities, and I do believe that the TSA is at least making a good-faith effort to balance that need for security with the need for efficiency and some degree of privacy.

Its only blown out of proportion if it does not bother you. There are a lot of reasons it is a big deal to a lot of people. If it doesn't bother you great keep on flying. If there is a decrease in air travel because of this I guess thats ok too. It couldn't possibly have any effect on the economy could it?

 

[maxiesmom]

If it doesn't bother you great keep on flying. If there is a decrease in air travel because of this I guess thats ok too. It couldn't possibly have any effect on the economy could it?

It could. But then, so could a person trying to set off a bomb on an airplane. Or someone sneaking a gun on board. Many things could possibly have an effect on air travel and the economy. Making an educated guess as to what would be worse is darned hard.