Fort Worth woman shot in her own home by police

[bcla]

I'm hearing reports that the nephew was interviewed. He said that after she heard something outside, she went to her purse and got her handgun.

 

[skyblue17]

I'm hearing reports that the nephew was interviewed. He said that after she heard something outside, she went to her purse and got her handgun.

But isn't this what anyone with a gun in their home would do if they felt that there might be a threat outside that could possibly come inside? Should everyone who owns a gun for self-defense accept that they might be shot by a policeman in their own home because they themselves are suddenly a threat to law enforcement they have no reason to expect?

 

[bcla]

But isn't this what anyone with a gun in their home would do if they felt that there might be a threat outside that could possibly come inside? Should everyone who owns a gun for self-defense accept that they might be shot by a policeman in their own home because they themselves are suddenly a threat to law enforcement they have no reason to expect?

I wasn't expressing an opinion. I thought about doing so, but then I'm trying to stay out of any arguments.

 

[luvsJack]

But isn't this what anyone with a gun in their home would do if they felt that there might be a threat outside that could possibly come inside? Should everyone who owns a gun for self-defense accept that they might be shot by a policeman in their own home because they themselves are suddenly a threat to law enforcement they have no reason to expect?

I don't know about the situation here. But it seems to me that if they were called to do a "wellness check", he should have gone to the door and knocked are yelled inside or something to make his presence known. That would have prevented her picking up the gun in the first place (if she did). Mistake one on his part.

Most armed homeowners would get their gun if they thought they someone was outside their home and a threat. It is assumed that LEOs would identify themselves. Not say "hands up" and then immediately shoot. Mistake two.

This is on him. This isn't on the vast number of armed homeowners in this country. And its not on all police or all police departments. Its all on this one person. He messed up.

 

[skyblue17]

I don't know about the situation here. But it seems to me that if they were called to do a "wellness check", he should have gone to the door and knocked are yelled inside or something to make his presence known. That would have prevented her picking up the gun in the first place (if she did). Mistake one on his part.

Most armed homeowners would get their gun if they thought they someone was outside their home and a threat. It is assumed that LEOs would identify themselves. Not say "hands up" and then immediately shoot. Mistake two.

This is on him. This isn't on the vast number of armed homeowners in this country. And its not on all police or all police departments. Its all on this one person. He messed up.

Oh, I agree it's on him. I'm not suggesting it's on her, or that it would be on those who have guns in their home. I don't think it's out of line to imagine this happening in other instances, though. We happened to hear about this one.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Even if the gun was in her fridge, what difference does that make?

My point was to say the article I read said the gun wasn't in the bedroom. It was in a different room from the woman. The cop can't use the gun as an excuse for shooting her. I'm not sure why you had a problem with my post, when I agree with you.

ETA: The initial story I read may have been inaccurate about the location of the gun. Regardless, I think it's irrelevant.

 

[TeresaBelle]

I just watched the body cam video. He clearly walks past the front door. Inside door is open, lights on, storm door is closed. Then past another storm door off the driveway it looks like. No reason in the world he couldn't have knocked on either one, waited for her to answer and say they'd received a call and wanted to make sure she was okay. What on earth made him go sneaking into her backyard like that?? Insane!!

 

[luvsJack]

Oh, I agree it's on him. I'm not suggesting it's on her, or that it would be on those who have guns in their home. I don't think it's out of line to imagine this happening in other instances, though. We happened to hear about this one.

Considering the huge number of calls that officers go on each day, I am sure it has at least come close to happening before. I don't think its happened with any regularity because just like this case, it would be all over the news.

But, again, 99% of police officers are just trying to do their job to the best of their ability and go home at the end of their shift. They aren't looking for innocent citizens to kill. They aren't the villains to be feared. THIS guy in THIS incident is, but that isn't police in general; its just THIS guy.

 

[cabanafrau]

I don't see how there's even the slightest bit of room for this officer to squeeze around the fourth amendment and suggest he shouldn't be held guilty for murder. He and he alone created the threatening situation -- which a completely innocent person paid for with their life.

 

[Elle23]

[/QUOTE]

If she was white this never would have happened.

In this instance, I doubt he even had time to process her race before he opened fire. It was literally a split second. Not everything is about race.

 

[skyblue17]

Considering the huge number of calls that officers go on each day, I am sure it has at least come close to happening before. I don't think its happened with any regularity because just like this case, it would be all over the news.

But, again, 99% of police officers are just trying to do their job to the best of their ability and go home at the end of their shift. They aren't looking for innocent citizens to kill. They aren't the villains to be feared. THIS guy in THIS incident is, but that isn't police in general; its just THIS guy.

I do believe that's the case. However, I also believe that law enforcement have the ball in their court to represent themselves in a way that more citizens do trust them, and from what I call tell, less than 99% of police are willing to do that. This may be one case but it does represent more than that because how do you know that the cop that shows up at your house is one of the 99%?

 

[luvsJack]

I do believe that's the case. However, I also believe that law enforcement have the ball in their court to represent themselves in a way that more citizens do trust them, and from what I call tell, less than 99% of police are willing to do that. This may be one case but it does represent more than that because how do you know that the cop that shows up at your house is one of the 99%?

There isn't a job, career, business, organization, etc. on the planet that has 100% good people or trustworthy people involved. Humans aren't made that way. 99% would be pretty dang good odds.

They should not have to prove anything. LEOs run into danger every day to protect US and WE are asking them to continue to prove themselves because of a few bad apples (this is one bad apple but not every cop in every situation that makes the news is even that)? They prove themselves every single day. They do prove they are, in fact, heroes.

They go out in the communities and do things for kids and elderly and single moms. They show how much they care, every day.

The Fort Worth PD let this guy go. He is on his own with his trail. The police aren't defending him.

What else would you like them to do?

 

[cabanafrau]

It's not a regular occurrence because it's not legal for the police to wander up to a home and look in a window. Let alone unilaterally decide they have probable cause to shoot. Due process rights protect us from unreasonable search and seizure. Police could suspect that I have an illegal weapon in my home, but without a search warrant they cannot simply stroll up, look in my window and see if they can spot it. And they cannot obtain a search warrant without showing good cause to demonstrate reason to believe that I have an illegal gun in my home. That applies to any kind of contraband they might think I have, not just guns.

At most this officer could claim he had reasonable belief there was an intruder in this home. If he felt he could not maintain the scene on his own after clearly identifying himself as an officer and attempting to make contact with a suspect his responsibility was to observe the situation and call for backup and proceed to make contact with the suspect once backup was present to help him control the perimeter. If he had either identified himself as police initially or called in backup and identified that the police were there to any occupants of the home he would have almost certainly received a verbal response letting him know that he was talking to a resident of the home, a child was also present and they were safe and well, no cause for alarm. The victim could have then safely come to her front door, revealing to the officers that she was all right, not an intruder and there would have been no reason for either the victim or the police to have felt any threat. That would not have been overstepping anyone's fourth amendment protection in light of the neighbor's call and the unusualness of the open door being enough good cause shown for police to knock, ring the doorbell, what have you and make a simple inquiry if everyone was okay. If that had been done and there was no response, then it might have still been acceptable to either walk around and check for a resident with a medical or other emergency, possibly even entering the home to look for the same.

The authority to use lethal force rightfully comes with an absolute expectation that it is to be used in only the most dire circumstances with good cause. This situation wasn't even in the same galaxy and I think most ten year olds could have suggested a more common sense and safe way to undertake the task.

 

[skyblue17]

There isn't a job, career, business, organization, etc. on the planet that has 100% good people or trustworthy people involved. Humans aren't made that way. 99% would be pretty dang good odds.

They should not have to prove anything. LEOs run into danger every day to protect US and WE are asking them to continue to prove themselves because of a few bad apples (this is one bad apple but not every cop in every situation that makes the news is even that)? They prove themselves every single day. They do prove they are, in fact, heroes.

They go out in the communities and do things for kids and elderly and single moms. They show how much they care, every day.

The Fort Worth PD let this guy go. He is on his own with his trail. The police aren't defending him.

What else would you like them to do?

You're right, but I don't think it's strange to believe that law enforcement should be held to the highest standard.

No one is forced to go into law enforcement. That's fantastic that they go into the community and do things. That should not make them immune to criticism. Sorry.

I would like the good people in law enforcement to hold the bad accountable. Rather than protect those that go rogue, or get caught doing something objectionable, they should say "this does not represent us." That rarely happens. Like I said, I know there are good people who truly want to serve the community involved. I still believe that they are the ones in charge of how the public views them. If they aren't happy with the amount of respect or trust they get from the general public, that is not on the public.

This cop should be treated as any civilian would be if they had done the same. That's what they should do.

 

[LSUmiss]

Never said there were not mistakes, deadly mistakes made.

But when presented with a few seconds to decide to kill, be killed, or wait it out, I have NO idea how I would react, and I would bet that the potential members of the jury also have NO idea how they would react.

No I don’t know, but I do know how I should expect to be punished for such a horrible mistake.

 

[morgan98]

You're right, but I don't think it's strange to believe that law enforcement should be held to the highest standard.

No one is forced to go into law enforcement. That's fantastic that they go into the community and do things. That should not make them immune to criticism. Sorry.

I would like the good people in law enforcement to hold the bad accountable. Rather than protect those that go rogue, or get caught doing something objectionable, they should say "this does not represent us." That rarely happens. Like I said, I know there are good people who truly want to serve the community involved. I still believe that they are the ones in charge of how the public views them. If they aren't happy with the amount of respect or trust they get from the general public, that is not on the public.

This cop should be treated as any civilian would be if they had done the same. That's what they should do.

I agree with you and I think that our perception of law enforcement is definitely influenced by our own experience.

I do not want to derail this thread but I do have trust issues with law enforcement. I have never been arrested, nor even received a ticket. However, I have had three friends married to cops (all strong, professional women who lived in three different states ) who have been abused by their husbands. Is this a coincidence? Perhaps. I happen to have seen a side of them that makes me view them as aggressive and power hungry. Is my view skewed? Probably. But because of this, I limit contact with officers, and do not go out of my way to make eye contact or engage with them.

I do not buy into they are in law enforcement, they must be pillars of the community argument. I also feel they absolutely should be held to the highest standard when it comes to them using their power, authority and weapons.

 

[LSUmiss]

Considering the huge number of calls that officers go on each day, I am sure it has at least come close to happening before. I don't think its happened with any regularity because just like this case, it would be all over the news.

But, again, 99% of police officers are just trying to do their job to the best of their ability and go home at the end of their shift. They aren't looking for innocent citizens to kill. They aren't the villains to be feared. THIS guy in THIS incident is, but that isn't police in general; its just THIS guy.

Yes & no. When it becomes as prevalent as it has lately, it seems to point to a systemic problem especially when the “mistakes” are getting more more egregious which is what members of the black community have been saying for years.

 

[LSUmiss]

In this instance, I doubt he even had time to process her race before he opened fire. It was literally a split second. Not everything is about race.
[/QUOTE]
But if he were in a predominantly black community, he might have assumed it.

 

[kimblebee]

My point was to say the article I read said the gun wasn't in the bedroom. It was in a different room from the woman. The cop can't use the gun as an excuse for shooting her. I'm not sure why you had a problem with my post, when I agree with you.

ETA: The initial story I read may have been inaccurate about the location of the gun. Regardless, I think it's irrelevant.

I misunderstood what you meant, then. Apologies

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I misunderstood what you meant, then. Apologies

No worries. I could have been more clear.