Fourth Grade Math Problem. --Oct 15th updates in post #69

KennesawNemo

DIS Veteran
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
I get this from another web forum. I personally think the teacher is very very wrong. What do you think?

Parent's original email (1st email):
I did notice that there is a grading mistake. I had attached that paper to this email for your convenience. On Problem 5, 653-29 = 624 not 622. He was correct by figuring out that he should use "623+1" instead of "623-1" as instructed by the problem (wrong direction was given for that problem). Since other kids might have done the same, I would like to bring this to your attention so that the kids can know which way is correct.

Teacher's email:
As far as problem number 5, the expectation was for 1 to be subtracted from 623 to show that since we added 1 to 29 to make a ten, we had to subtract 1 from 653. So, the problem should have looked like:

653-29 = ?
Make a ten 29+1= 30

653-30=623

623-1=622

653-29=622


Parent's 2nd email:
653- 29 = 624 not 622.

Teacher's Response:

The objective is to use mental math and change place value to the nearest ten in order to do so, not subtract 29 from 653. This was taught within our class extensively and aligns to the ** State Learning Standard 4.NBT.4 which states: The student will add and subtract multi-digit whole numbers using the standard algorithm. The strategy being taught in this section is to mentally add or subtract larger numbers, by taking and giving to make one number end in a ten, hundred or thousand.

Not being within the lesson, it may be hard to see what the students are asked to know. I would love to meet with you sometime to show you what the expectation was for this assignment and a little bit about this curriculum.


Parent's 3rd email:
Sample Q using your method:

11-9 = ??
Make a ten 9+1= 10

11-10=1

1-1=0

11-9=0

Latest email from teacher:

The answer is incorrect, however I can't explain it to you over an email. This is important to me because I don't want you or *** to feel wrongly accused of his performance on a math assignment. I understand the busy schedule you may have and that conference time will be a great time to revisit this. I also respect your knowledge and wisdom in math and look forward to seeing your perspective. The 4th grade team has looked at this problem and are in agreement about it. It is a different strategy that the curriculum is trying show the students, and it does require them to think critically.
 
I swear it's not!

And it's an on going thread. That op is going to meet the teacher later today, I think. I will post update if I see any.

Can we blame this on common core? I am not sure myself.

I look forward to the update!
 


I'm all for teaching mental math, but mental math is suppose to help you get the right answer.

This is how it should have looked -

653-29 =
29 + 1 =30

653-30= 623

623 +1= 624

The reason you add the one is because you took one too many away! So you add the one back in, you don't subtract out again.

The teacher is thinking about mental math with addition. The teacher is wrong.
 
I get what they are trying to teach, but I think the problem comes in with the subtraction - they need to use the distributive property:

653 - 29 =

653 - (29 +1) =

653 - 29 - 1 =

653 - 30 = 623

and since you really didn't add one because of the subtraction sign, you need to add one to 653, so

623 + 1 = 624

I think! :confused3
 
So per the teacher this requires critical thinking? To me critical thinking = correct answer!!!

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards
 


I get what they are trying to teach, but I think the problem comes in with the subtraction - they need to use the distributive property:

653 - 29 =

653 - (29 +1) =

653 - 29 - 1 =

653 - 30 = 623

and since you really didn't add one because of the subtraction sign, you need to add one to 653, so

623 + 1 = 624

I think! :confused3

You are correct.
 
No wonder our education system sucks! The teacher should have looked at the problem and used some critical thinking skills!
 
No wonder our education system sucks! The teacher should have looked at the problem and used some critical thinking skills!

Agreed! I actually do my "mental math" using that method (or similar) - wasn't every taught it, it just works for me. But I'd have added the 1 back in, not subtracted it.
 
The 4th grade team has looked at this problem and are in agreement about it.

--This is what scares me most. The entire 4th grade team is in agreement with teacher. I would be thinking about pulling my kids from that school by now...
 
Can this "math" teacher really not see that the answer she is coming up with is incorrect?

We are in serious trouble.......
 
The 4th grade team has looked at this problem and are in agreement about it.

--This is what scares me most. The entire 4th grade team is in agreement with teacher. I would be thinking about pulling my kids from that school by now...

I guess a meeting is needed with the entire 4th grade team to review 1st grade math.
 
This is pretty silly actually.

The math concept is a good, it is being taught wrong. The parent is correct in the original email.

It is pretty cut and dry.

If it is true, what a waste of time to have go into the class. Also, I would seriously be concerned about my child staying in the class.

Interestingly, I was never taught to do math that way and taught myself at some point. It is so much easier to do math that way in your head.

I keep trying to teach my kids and they don't grasp it as well as I would like them to. They are taught both the "carry" method and the "mental" math concepts in school but they always try to do "carry" math in their heads and get it all messed up.
 
My DH would be up in arms and would have a meeting with the entire school admin.

The sad thing is, even if you did explain it to them they would still be lost.
 
The 4th grade team has looked at this problem and are in agreement about it.

--This is what scares me most. The entire 4th grade team is in agreement with teacher. I would be thinking about pulling my kids from that school by now...

I just assumed that the "4th grade team" consisted of kids in the fourth grade. Probably to stop my brain from exploding with the thought that a bunch of adults thought that that was the right answer.
 
I do want to say that I have taught my kids mental math since the age of 3. My 7th grade daughter could have done this math problem at the age of 5 correctly.

I'm in shock and disgusted that an entire 4th grade team is so stupid.
 
I'm all for teaching mental math, but mental math is suppose to help you get the right answer.

This is how it should have looked -

653-29 =
29 + 1 =30

653-30= 623

623 +1= 624

The reason you add the one is because you took one too many away! So you add the one back in, you don't subtract out again.

The teacher is thinking about mental math with addition. The teacher is wrong.

This is my way of thinking. I mean I wasn't taught "mental math" but I know that taking away 30, is easier than 29, I would just add the 1 back in.

God help us, no wonder we are failing at education.
 
It's the same issue I had with "estimation" that was taught when my kids were in school. I stand by the fact that kids learn to estimate and to do mental math by knowing how to do the actual math. Those make sense if you know how to actually do the problems.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. If my kids were still young, I would pull them and homeschool or find a program that teaches correctly and not down to the lowest common denominator of students. What idiots came up with this? I'm guessing they weren't math majors. My oldest DS (29 yr old) was a math major and this stuff drives him crazy.
 
OMG...that is a disgrace. I could see someone making a mistake, but once it was brought to her attention to still think it is right and continue arguing something she could solve with a calculator to see she is wrong. I would be meeting with the principal as well and bringing those emails with. Sad....very, very sad. CC or not, if a person is not intelligent enough to teach it doesn't matter what standards are in place. Maybe these are the type of teachers who benefit from the "scripted" teaching programs I have seen people posting about. It sounds like these teachers need to have a script of what they should be saying to the students. :sad2:
 

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!











facebook twitter
Top