Full return for Florida's cruise industry may not happen until 2022

[princessmommyx3]

Fauci just said today that he expects it to be "open season" (meaning anyone who wants one can get one) by April. Time will tell.....

 

[DisneYE]

Hope you are correct. I am in a lower level Tier 1 risk group and mutiple sources tell me not to expect my first vaccine until September.

If the J&J single dose gets approved (already submitted to FDA) they said the'll supply 100 million vaccines by June.
That's a huge number that will easily cover all those wanting to get a vaccine.
At the current pace it looks like 100 million ppl would be vaccinated by May. Add another 100m doses from J&J in June and that's 3/4 of the adult population.
By September everyone would have gotten their vaccine, those that wanted it.

 

[gwynne]

Hope you are correct. I am in a lower level Tier 1 risk group and mutiple sources tell me not to expect my first vaccine until September.

I think your sources may be sharing old info. Forecasts have been updated to reflect additional production. Good news!

 

[KashasMom]

My concern is STATES at this point can't get enough vaccine, how are cruise lines going to get priority or event find vaccine for International staff?

Same mess here! I don't understand why there isn't one statewide site for people to sign up. You have to sign up on 20 different sites - the state, the county (if you can ever get through), hospitals, CVS, etc., etc. and hope that you get a spot. It's ridiculous. I don't even know WHERE to sign up.

 

[mousefan73]

Sorry if I don't feel sorry for Carnival as an example who ran a profit of $7b in 2019.

Yes I understand they are hurting but its not like they were not raking it in and beyond that purposely avoiding labor laws in countries like the US.

It completely sucks the employees are left out to dry.

as someone who works in the airline business in a position that deals with the financials let me just tell you that 9 billion is not much. The cruise industry is somewhat similar to the airlines in that they have very high capital/ operational costs even without operating and while reducing or eliminating employee costs. For the period of a few months you can go from a company being billions in the plus, paying dividends to bleeding hundreds of millions a month and needing government bailouts to ensure your employees and all those trickle down jobs return one day.

 

[tvguy]

I think your sources may be sharing old info. Forecasts have been updated to reflect additional production. Good news!

Bad news. CVS starts vaccines tomorrow, and almost all the vaccine is already spoken for. Other public clinics are canceling reservations because they are out vaccine. California Governor Newsom addressed that yesterday, we don't have enough vaccine. BAD NEWS

 

[gwynne]

Bad news. CVS starts vaccines tomorrow, and almost all the vaccine is already spoken for

OK.
I was talking about April into May or June, not tomorrow.
Your CVS will get more vaccine on a regular basis.
If you qualify by age for a vaccine now, you may have to keep an eye out. It will get better.

 

[tvguy]

OK.
I was talking about April into May or June, not tomorrow.
Your CVS will get more vaccine on a regular basis.
If you qualify by age for a vaccine now, you may have to keep an eye out. It will get better.

Essential worker. 63, 64 in June. Minor qualifying health issues. I can be surprised by an early vaccine as I deal with this daily, but I am prepared not to be surprised. The people in charge are the ones sounding the alarm

 

[insureman]

Bad news. CVS starts vaccines tomorrow, and almost all the vaccine is already spoken for. Other public clinics are canceling reservations because they are out vaccine. California Governor Newsom addressed that yesterday, we don't have enough vaccine. BAD NEWS

Surprisingly I was able to get an appointment for my 87 year old mother through CVS here in Massachusetts just an hour ago. There were still a lot of time slots available. I originally stayed up until midnight however the site crashed but I logged on today and got it.

 

[vacationer1954]

They just announced the first Phase 1C vaccinations here in Florida, but I don't qualify because Florida is only considering a limited set of the conditions set forth in Phase 1C to be part of Florida's Phase 1C vaccine distribution.

 

[Cheburashka]

As to labor laws, they hire mostly foreign workers and operate vessels flagged in foreign countries. Perhaps to avoid US labor laws. However if they were to operate US flagged ships, the cruises would cost 3X as much. The consumer needs to make the choice, cheap cruises or paying these people more money.

Disney cruises already cost 3X as much as the competition, and their workers aren't treated correspondingly better. The same goes for other upscale lines. So no, it isn't the consumer's choice that the lines take advantage of their workers.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Requiring internet access to get on a vaccine list is ableist and often classist.

Our distribution is a mess.

 

[tvguy]

As to labor laws, they hire mostly foreign workers and operate vessels flagged in foreign countries. Perhaps to avoid US labor laws. However if they were to operate US flagged ships, the cruises would cost 3X as much. The consumer needs to make the choice, cheap cruises or paying these people more money. It really is the consumers choice, they can opt not to go on the cruise if they feel strongly enough about it.

NCL's Pride of America is a U.S. flagged ship and has operated as such for many years with mostly U.S. staff making at least U.S minimum wage. It is a relatively inexpensive cruise. However, you get the hard sell for everything extra cost in exchange for that. I sailed on her over a decade ago. It was more like a hotel than a cruise, and service was alright but probably lower than any other ship I have been on.

 

[brentm77]

Disney cruises already cost 3X as much as the competition, and their workers aren't treated correspondingly better. The same goes for other upscale lines. So no, it isn't the consumer's choice that the lines take advantage of their workers.

I have mixed feelings about foreign flagged ships avoiding U.S. labor laws. On the one hand, I think if we made it illegal, all ships would be held to the same standard and expectations for profit margins might change because consumers wouldn't be willing to eat the cost. On the other hand, it is more likely we would all pay more to cruise. I don't really mind paying a bit more to cruise to support a fair wage. But that only begs the question of what is a fair wage. If the wages are much better than the person's home country, than is that a fair wage already? Like others, the servers I have spoken to about it seem pretty content with their situation compared to people in their home country. And could we really materially increase wages by paying a bit more per passenger? I haven't tried to run the math

I don't think Disney is really 3X competitors in most cases. It's not even double. I also don't think they would just eat the cost of more expensive labor. Whatever profit margin they are making now, they would try to preserve unless the market didn't allow for that. In the end, I think it is hard to argue we aren't benefiting from very low labor costs when we sail.

 

[AquaDame]

Requiring internet access to get on a vaccine list is ableist and often classist.

Our distribution is a mess.

Another point in favor of making it a utility...

 

[dioxide45]

NCL's Pride of America is a U.S. flagged ship and has operated as such for many years with mostly U.S. staff making at least U.S minimum wage. It is a relatively inexpensive cruise. However, you get the hard sell for everything extra cost in exchange for that. I sailed on her over a decade ago. It was more like a hotel than a cruise, and service was alright but probably lower than any other ship I have been on.

When you compare it to a similar length Caribbean cruise or even perhaps a Hawaiian cruise that sails from the US mainland with a stop in Mexico, it is quite a bit more expensive. An inside for September right now is almost $4K for two people. You can easily get a Caribbean cruise for half that. I also don't know how they pay their wait staff. Do they earn a wage based on tipped employees, or based on Hawaii minimum wage. From everything I have heard about the ship, they also seem to cut corners in other areas to cover the higher labor costs they endure.

 

[Intr3pid]

NCL's Pride of America is a U.S. flagged ship and has operated as such for many years with mostly U.S. staff making at least U.S minimum wage. It is a relatively inexpensive cruise. However, you get the hard sell for everything extra cost in exchange for that. I sailed on her over a decade ago. It was more like a hotel than a cruise, and service was alright but probably lower than any other ship I have been on.

Today, it's anything but. We have priced our DCL Hawaii 10-nighter against NCL's 7-nighter, and NCL's actually comes out more expensive per night.

There are deals to be had in the off season or at the last minute, but the combination of high wages - and almost zero competition - does show in more general prices.

 

[Cheburashka]

I don't think Disney is really 3X competitors in most cases. It's not even double.

It is absolutely usually at least double the price of other mass market cruise lines for the same category of stateroom.

 

[brentm77]

It is absolutely usually at least double the price of other mass market cruise lines for the same category of stateroom.

Really? That hasn't been my experience. In my experience, it is maybe a 20-30% premium for four people. But I don't look at Carnival. I have only looked at other lines that are at least comparable in service/quality.

Europe does seem closer to double when compared to other lines.

 

[tvguy]

When you compare it to a similar length Caribbean cruise or even perhaps a Hawaiian cruise that sails from the US mainland with a stop in Mexico, it is quite a bit more expensive. An inside for September right now is almost $4K for two people. You can easily get a Caribbean cruise for half that. I also don't know how they pay their wait staff. Do they earn a wage based on tipped employees, or based on Hawaii minimum wage. From everything I have heard about the ship, they also seem to cut corners in other areas to cover the higher labor costs they endure.

Current catalog price on NCL Pride of America, outside stateroom, $600 person in May with $1,700 per person discount.
https://cs.cruise.com/cs/forms/Crui...en=&did=42&mon=5/1/2021&vid=624&sid=1440&nr=y
Current catalog price on DCL Fantasy, outside stateroom, $1,842 to $1,920 per person in May.
https://cs.cruise.com/cs/forms/Crui...oken=&did=1&mon=5/1/2021&vid=582&len=6|9&nr=y
Granted, I am 100% sure neither line will be operating in May.