Genie Service

[DVC92]

Being old school, I couldn't use the new system even if I wanted to (which I never would), since I don't even have a smart phone. I still use a flip phone.

 

[Yinn]

I think the free fast pass system we had was fine, and that a fee could have been added for more than 3 passes. I wonder if cash guests will still find the deluxe resorts, without the free parking, free fastpasses, free airport shuttles, and so forth worth the prices? If not, things will change, as Disney does not want to be stuck with thousand of empty onsite rooms. And this may even affect DVC sales, as people do by in for the onsite experience. Right now, Disney is riding high on the 50th anniversary stuff, but after that is over, we may see attendance drop significantly.

I liked fast pass because it was much simpler to schedule table service meals between FP times, and plan the day overall.

As someone who used to stay offsite. The answer would be a hard no. There is absolutely no way my DW would have been able to convince me it's worth paying $250/night to stay on property. Even at All-Star $125/night rates, I'd be pretty meh about it.

When you factor in the AirBnB competition too (which I'm not a fan of), what are any of the advantages of staying on site?

It's definitely not cheaper. I can rent a 4BR townhouse for about $800/week vs $2000 for a deluxe studio.
The pools? If you can get past the Holiday Inn label, you can grab a waterpark room for about $80/night.
The food? Orlando has some pretty awesome places to eat and plenty of dinner/theme shows too.

The arguments my DW used to convince me are gone.
- Free shuttle from MCO. Some hotels still have this, Disney no longer do.
- Free luggage transfer. Disney no longer does this, don't think anyone else does either, wash.
- Airline check in, no lugging around. Disney no longer does this, don't think anyone else does either, wash.
- Worry free all inclusive vacation package. Except my Disney day is now waking up at 7am to hit "Refresh, refresh, refresh" to try to grab virtual passes, pay for genies, etc.

There's only two things left.
- Magic hours, which aren't so magical anymore for a younger family.
- Free to park transportation. This still rings true, but most have shuttles to WDW to avoid having to pay for parking. Even if they didn't at worst, you figure a wash for the trip from MCO to the hotel, and then $50/day for parking, but I'm saving more than $50/day staying offsite.

 

[davper]

I foresee complications of inaccurate data: app says wait time is 75 mins when it is only 45 is predictable. It happened a lot. It’s not a science.

Actually, it is a science. Prior to this, they purposely inflate the wait time to help disperse crowds to other rides. Every now and then, a CM will give a card to a guest entering the line and ask them to give the card to the CM as you get on the ride. So Disney knows exactly how long the wait is. This policy was proven by the folks over at touringplans. So they say.
Now Disney has a financial incentive to inflate wait times.

 

[Rob Huff]

I'm getting a kick out of the 7am daily Genie+ access. So many people complained about having to do FP+ at 7am from home two months before their on-site stay, so Disney's solution is to...replace that system with an upcharge, crappier version of the same thing where you get to get up by 7am on every day of your vacation to take advantage of it? Huh? That's a baffling move.

I loved being set up at my computer by 6:55am, pausing work for half an hour or so to book a week's worth of FPs for our upcoming trip. It was thrilling, it gave us two months to be excited about the upcoming trip, and I got to experience a meaningful part of vacation before I even left my house.

I'm cheap by nature, so nickel and dime tactics never sit well with me. We didn't go to the parks on either of our last two trips, spending a grand total of $5,059 across our combined 11 nights of DVC stays. That includes transit to and from Michigan to WDW, other hotels on the way for our driving trip, groceries, meals, souvenirs, tips, and a ratable portion of our DVC purchase price and dues. Maybe $2,500 of that total was actually spent on Disney between meals, DVC, and souvenirs. Basically, whenever Disney charges more, we find ways to spend even less.

We'll go to the parks next year, but as I mentioned in another thread, we'll probably end up spending even less time in the parks than we did on our previous parks-included trips. The impact? We'll potentially spend more on specific rides for LL purchases for attractions like RAT and Tron (fingers crossed), but waaaaaay less on food and souvenirs. My kids would rather have easy mac, an apple, and a carrot around the pool anyway.

Will Disney end up making more money from Genie+ and LL than they'll lose from other areas? Almost certainly yes. From our family? I'm not sure, but I rather doubt it.

 

[kmorlock]

Fact: It’s nothing more than a cash grab. You are not getting anything more than you did before. The difference now is you have to pay for it, and then keep paying for it. No more riding then trying for another FP on the same ride or another without forking out more $$. We are paying higher prices but getting lesser product/experience. Even if you can well afford paying another $500 a day per person for your entire stay, this should not sit well with you.
If crowd control is the touted goal, they already have it at their finger tips. Again, this is nothing more than a Cheap-ek era gauge.

 

[disney1474]

I think I would have preferred the old FastPass system of booking 3 rides in a day, and then 1 at a time for the $15/day. At least then you could come up with some kind of schedule.

THIS is what Disney should be doing. Still give 3 free and options to purchase more. this would make most people including me happy.

 

[Suzabella]

So now we know why the after hours party prices rose so dramatically. Those prices don't look so bad now. The Genie stuff is likely built into the price since you won't need it for those events.

And the over estimated wait times that Disney have been posting at the parks? Was that to make this look like a great deal?

Makes me wonder why they've been postponing the announcements/ sales of APs and DDP. Please keep your arms and legs inside the ride at all times....this ride isn't over.

 

[davper]

I'm getting a kick out of the 7am daily Genie+ access. So many people complained about having to do FP+ at 7am from home two months before their on-site stay

Most people are already up at 7 for work. And so it was more palatable. And most, like myself, didn't log in at 7 or even on the 1st day possible and still get a FP for your favorite ride. 7am while on vacation, is just not acceptable. And if you don't, you are likely to miss out for the day. Too much stress for what is suppose to be a vacation day.

 

[808blessing]

Actually, it is a science. Prior to this, they purposely inflate the wait time to help disperse crowds to other rides. Every now and then, a CM will give a card to a guest entering the line and ask them to give the card to the CM as you get on the ride. So Disney knows exactly how long the wait is. This policy was proven by the folks over at touringplans. So they say.
Now Disney has a financial incentive to inflate wait times.

yep, that’s right- there is potential for accurate data science but the inflation is happening. When I went in the spring the times were way off which made me wonder if they stopped doing the card thing. I didn’t go by it at all but my friends were and it didn’t match up- I was doing half the wait time listed.

We have been going regularly for the last 8 years. I had good experiences with low crowds in the early 2010s. So do what they did in the good old days. Technology as an accelerator shows up in good ways and bad. Too bad the pros and cons cancels itself out and still costs more. Just get rid of the pay for play and I think it will be a little better. Or better yet, the 3 planned fast passes a day.

The newbies may likely succumb to the “impulse line buying” and return home to the debt of a lifetime. It is very difficult to plan ahead for what you will pay to play for and to say no on the spot. (Remember dining plans). I’m just glad I’ve been there plenty of times and have the knowledge to be selective about what we enjoy and what we will skip.

 

[davper]

THIS is what Disney should be doing. Still give 3 free and options to purchase more. this would make most people including me happy.

I would be happy with one. Provided I could make the reservation before I leave for my trip.

 

[pianomanzano]

THIS is what Disney should be doing. Still give 3 free and options to purchase more. this would make most people including me happy.

I've seen other suggest this as well. I think the main problem with that is that if everyone buys them, then you'll see long fastpass lines or unavailable times to reserve. My wife was a former CM and she said guests would always ask why they couldn't just buy a fastpass for rides they wanted to avoid lines for. The real problem is that there are just too many people in the parks and their solution is to keep on cramming as much people and to "optimize park experiences" based on how much more you're willing to pay.

 

[BikeFan]

Just so I'm clear, this is OPTIONAL, correct? So, if you don't want to pay an extra $15, $20, $25... you don't have to. Just go to the parks and wait in line, regular line. No need to wake up early on vacation, no need to plan for large groups, no need to sell. Just do what's comfortable for you and have a magical time.

People may pay a premium for what they feel is added benefit that suits them. Pay more for a better cut of meat? Up to you, you don't have to. Pay for for a nicer car? Up to you, but you don't have to. Pay more for a shorter line?

The difference is, this is the sort of upcharge that lessens the experience for those who don't pay the additional fee. Compare it to the fancier WDW restaurants - if you book a dinner at Victoria & Alberts because the premium food and service is worth the price to you, that has no negative effect on my vacation. If, however, most park-goers opt into the Genie+ system, the stand-by lines are going to become the stand-still lines for people who don't pay, because ride capacity is a fixed resource. For every guest paying the upcharge, a guest who didn't pay the upcharge literally gets pushed back a place in line.

 

[Nappy1380]

I'm happy with $15 day. I don't expect to be given a DVC discount - don't use it if you don't want to. Disney is a business - they want to be here another 50 years ! Disney has CMs that deserve get paid and if this improves life for all I say go for it, 2020 was a hard year for all.
Even as former CM I will never get over the things people feel they "should be entitled to" at WDW.

This is possibly the most delusional post in this thread. You think the revenue from all of these add on charges are going to the CMs?! (Laughs in shareholder/Dr. Evil tone). People were not "entitled" to a magic band, magical express, FP+, free parking when staying on property, those things were baked into the cost of your resort stay and ticket purchase.

Those "perks" work similarly to how beverages, popcorn and ice cream are "free" at Boo Bash. Those items are not free, it's rolled in to the cost of the ticket. So you pay X for something that includes perks and those perks ALL suddenly become an upcharge, people are right to complain. Even more so that not only are the perks an upcharge, the actual experience itself is also diminished via lack of in park experience and entertainment.

Walt's version of "plussing" was in constant park experience evolution. Chapek's version of "plussing" is figuring out ways to water down the park experience for the sake of charging more to get it back.

 

[Nappy1380]

A bunch of you are banking on being able to pick and choose what days your can add this to a park..... watch this be like the park hopper option where it's an add on that must be applied to all park day.

 

[davper]

I wish I was an artist, I would draw an image of people paying at the ticket window in the background. In the middle ground, I would draw the park entrance, and in the foreground, Mickey shaking a guest upside down to empty his pockets with a sign next to him 'park lines start here'. And a caption that say 'Be sure to buy a souvenir on the way out with what you have left'

 

[TAX GUY]

The difference is, this is the sort of upcharge that lessens the experience for those who don't pay the additional fee. Compare it to the fancier WDW restaurants - if you book a dinner at Victoria & Alberts because the premium food and service is worth the price to you, that has no negative effect on my vacation. If, however, most park-goers opt into the Genie+ system, the stand-by lines are going to become the stand-still lines for people who don't pay, because ride capacity is a fixed resource. For every guest paying the upcharge, a guest who didn't pay the upcharge literally gets pushed back a place in line.

Yes and no.... if it was a dinner at a premium location or paying an upcharge for a shorter line, I'm still removing myself from one and putting it into another. It'll be one less person in quick service or one less person in stand by line. This isn't adding people, it's just moving them from one to another.

I've heard and even said myself on many occasions.... "boy, I'd PAY to be able to skip this long line". Well, now that option is available. Some will pay, some are willing to pay more, others aren't and won't.

 

[Nappy1380]

Just finished watching the video overview again. For the trip planner aspects of the regular genie service, I wonder how accurate/optimized the underlying algorithms will be. We all know how inaccurate Youtube/Netflix/Spotify recommendations can be and how easy it is to game AI/ML algorithms (like the story of the guy in Europe who was able to manipulate google maps navigation recommendations by carrying a bunch of cell phones in a wagon). Not implying that anyone will actively try and game their systems to create fake lines, but we all know the issues Disney has regarding something as simple as website development, can we trust them to have optimized/accurate recommendations on Genie?

Specific to the Genie functionality itself, I would absolutely bank on Disney on manipulating the data and catering suggestions and alerts to control crowds and lines for parks. Disney used magic bands to be able to see where crowds where and also have a low level prediction on crowd flow via FP+ reservations. What that lacked however was the ability to drive or coerce people around to various rides and parts of the park in a very fine tuned manner. Genie gives them an immense amount of control or crowd movement and management.

The ability to influence/push people to certain rides and even where AND WHEN to eat gives them substantially greater control over crowd management. If there was a live betting line on Disney using Genie purely as a means of micro crowd control vs displaying the actual ride/restaurant data, I'd put down a healthy amount of money.

 

[Thegoatfeeder]

Not to be the dissenting voice, and I really don't mean to cause an argument. But the presence of free fast passes makes the standby lines so much longer than they would ordinarily be.

The FP lines were absolutely crammed on a busy day so it was no wonder that the standy lines basically never moved, it was pretty common to see people queuing outside of the FP line to get into it. If this means less people in the FP line and a quicker moving standy line I don't see it as being all bad.

Sure they could have reduced the 3 free fast passes to 1 or something, but I genuinely believe genie+ will reduce standby wait times compared to what they were pre-covid. It's not a comparison of saying BTM is a 80minute standby but I used to use a fast pass, this is awful. Because they 80 minutes could (and in my opinion will) be greatly reduced.

Me and my partner certainly won't be paying for it, because we don't need it. If the wait times do come down, the demand for it could be so low that standy lines get even shorter.

This thing was always coming and will probably always remain, I know that doesn't make it 'OK' but I just think its something to consider, you don't HAVE to buy this and i'm not convinced it will be as horrific as some suggest.

Anyway yeah, i'll duck out now.

 

[limace]

But you understand all those people who now aren’t in the FP line will be in the standby line with you?

 

[Yinn]

A bunch of you are banking on being able to pick and choose what days your can add this to a park..... watch this be like the park hopper option where it's an add on that must be applied to all park day.

Which is why a bunch of us are saying we'd just spend less time at the parks. We're not saying we'll still go 7 days and add 2 days of Genie. We're saying, we'll go 2 days with Genie instead of 7 days without.