Gotta love a little gender bias

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Men making more money than women is why they do better on credit scores and many disparities spawn from that variable, the credit limit is based on income and the credit score is based on how much space there is between dollars used and the ceiling.

The world is absolutely biased. In one fail swoop didn't you just blame her for not knowing she should be defensive and then proceed to explain why she is unjustified in being suspicious because of x, y & z?

Just pointing out the subtleties of the bias and how, if it doesn't impact you, it just sort of rolls off as normal.

lol oh that's rich then..literally. My husband made 30K MORE than me and I had a better credit score than him with 2 of the 3 companies when we went to get our home mortgage during the building process. Maybe assumptions shouldn't be used by people

Debt to income ratio matters but so does spending habits, so does longevity in your credit history and the lines of credit one has and what your debt is. For reference though my husband is a year younger than me but at our ages when we got our mortgage that wasn't as important (we were young anyways).

Let's not try the line "if it doesn't impact you, it just sort of rolls off as normal"..no where in my comments did I even hint at that. Now who is making the assumptions

 

[LuvOrlando]

lol oh that's rich then..literally. My husband made 30K MORE than me and I had a better credit score than him with 2 of the 3 companies when we went to get our home mortgage during the building process. Maybe assumptions shouldn't be used by people

Debt to income ratio matters but so does spending habits, so does longevity in your credit history and the lines of credit one has and what your debt is.

And please let's not try the line "if it doesn't impact you, it just sort of rolls off as normal"..

If you are arguing the world is a level playing field I just can't get behind that especially since reason 1 ifor male names being first is credit. This was your explanation not mine.

 

[tvguy]

I think it also varies with state laws. Texas has some different laws on car registration. Only one person can be the legal owner. My FIL's truck was registered to his wife, her car was registered to him. So she was the insured on the truck, and he was the insured on the car, but they both were allowed drivers. When he passed away, my wife's step-mother was able to sell the truck without issue. But she could not change the registration on the car to her name without my wife (my FILs only living blood relative) signing a notarized release to any claim to the car. Apparently another law in Texas is that when the registered owner of a car dies, and there is a living blood relative, they have first right to inherit the car.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

If you are arguing the world is a level playing field I just can't get behind that especially since reason 1 ifor male names being first is credit. This was your explanation not mine.

Goodness me no wonder you're confused.

Are you thinking I meant the COMPANY somehow made a determination that the man always has the better credit score and so they automatically place them as the PNI? That is not at all what I was saying. I'm saying that insureds choose the PNI primarily based on who has the better credit score, meaning you meaning me. Most people know who has the better credit score over the two and they will choose to have that person be quoted and that person to be listed as the PNI at least in my experience with the states that allow credit to be a determining factor in your insurance rate.

I suppose I can see how you got confused but I would have rather you asked for clarification

 

[piccolopat]

Well the difficulty is with assuming a relationship that isn't determined in the information? When you make a reservation at WDW you do only indicate 'I am travelling with people X, Y, Z' and not 'I am travelling with my husband X, my daughter Y and my son Z'. Or am I wrong, I haven't been to WDW in a while.
Even when you fill in date of birth and gender the system (or the programmer) has to make the assumption that the husband and therefore lead traveller is X.

And the question remains, what does the system when Mrs. A travels together with her husband Mr John X, and his 1 year younger brother Mr James X.? Or what if she is travelling with John X and his older father? Would that make a difference? Or what if Mr James X travels together with his male friend Mr. Sam Z.
What would the system do then? How does it work for same-sex relationships?

I wanna talk to Disney ICT and ask what's up with this

Sorry, my comments actually related to the earlier posts on insurance policies. You are correct in that the situation is different with hotel reservations.

 

[china mom]

Ok so you knew this when YOU set things up ?!? How is this gender bias? - you should have corrected it then.

No, I had no clue. I told the agent what we owned and what we wanted to insure and what our names are and I didn't pay attention after that. My fault for that. I guess I just assumed that we were equal in the eyes of the insurance policy so it didn't matter if it was under his name first or my name first. Turns out, he is the policy holder and I am insured under his policy - just like our teenage son is insured under his plan.

If I had realized it, I would have corrected it - as I just did via a phone call today. I am just remarking on the agent making the assumption that the husband should be the policy holder when he has only ever done business with me. I have a total of nine policies with this agent (four houses, four cars and an umbrella policy) and my husband has never made a phone call or an in person appearance.

 

[china mom]

How long have you had the coverage? Maybe they asked when you set the policy up? Maybe they didn't. Maybe it's an outgrowth of how the names are listed on the mortgage, or the title or something else. There's no way to know for sure that it was a sexist assumption. I try hard not to jump to conclusions.

We have been with this particular agent for about three or four years. I have been with the company for more than thirty years but only married for 25 years.

So, two of the mortgages are under his name/my name and two do not have recorded deeds yet but will be under my name for a minute and then under the LLC. I can see the four home policies online with no problem.

Three of the cars are solely under my name and one is titled my name/his name.

I have made 100% of the calls and emails to the agent about coverage. In fact, they don't even have his phone number or email on file. I know I did not say to issue the policies to him and add me.

 

[Skywalker]

Of the numerous joint accounts we have, a couple of them somehow got him as primary and the rest have me. It is about equal as to how many times the "wrong" one of us calls and needs permission from the other to get any info lol.

My one insurance company told me that even though it was my policy, since we were both insured under it, it just was listed under him by something as arbitrary as date of birth (his was first and because of that the whole thing went under his name)

If you're married you're part of a unit, whether the cars are in "your name" or not. Not a biggie. Are you insured? Yes? Awesome, good to go.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Goodness me no wonder you're confused.

Are you thinking I meant the COMPANY somehow made a determination that the man always has the better credit score and so they automatically place them as the PNI? That is not at all what I was saying. I'm saying that insureds choose the PNI primarily based on who has the better credit score, meaning you meaning me. Most people know who has the better credit score over the two and they will choose to have that person be quoted and that person to be listed as the PNI at least in my experience with the states that allow credit to be a determining factor in your insurance rate.

I suppose I can see how you got confused but I would have rather you asked for clarification

No, I'm not at all saying that any particular company makes this deliberate decision. What I am saying is that that men simply make more money than women (statistically but not ALWAYS), which means they get higher credit limits, which means they generally have a bigger differential between what is used in a credit line vs what is available and since credit scores are dependant upon that differential men will more than likely (not ALWAYS) end up with higher credit scores than women. This arrangement leads to what you said, that the primary named on an insurance policy is selected by being the better credit risk, and also explains why many women (not all) find themselves subordinate to male partners being the second named on a policy instead of the primary. You seem to think the relationship between gender and financial preference is pure and I do not.

Since a bias against women exists in payscale then all institutional barometers derived from payscale are also going to be biased (bias is not 100%). Incidentally, this is also true of minority groups and where some of the institutionalized bias often discussed rears its ugly head.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

No, I'm not at all saying that any particular company makes this deliberate decision. What I am saying is that that men simply make more money than women, which means they get higher credit limits, which means they generally have a bigger differential between what is used in a credit line vs what is available and since credit scores are dependant upon that differential men will more than likely end up with higher credit scores than women. This arrangement leads to what you said, that the primary named on an insurance policy is selected by being the better credit risk, and also explains why many women find themselves subordinate to male partners being the second named on a policy instead of the primary. You seem to think the relationship between gender and financial preference is pure and I do not.

Since a bias against women exists in payscale then all institutional barometers derived from payscale are also going to be biased. Incidentally, this is also true of minority groups and where some of the institutionalized bias often discussed rears its ugly head.

It's evident you didn't really grasp what I'm saying. Please take a break, step back from the computer and re-read what I'm saying. I'm not talking about some grand social justice escapade not only that but you somehow managed to turn my observation into this escapade lol.

I'm talking about two people who discuss and decide "hey I have the better score let's quote me as the PNI" Nothing more nothing less.

I told you my husband made a heck of a lot of money than me and still didn't have as good of credit score as me. Your debt to income ratio is not the be it all with respects to the insurance company they are considering the credit score. What information goes into that is not their business it's Equifax, TransUnion and Experian. My mother-in-law has superior credit and my step-father-in-law good credit but not as good as hers. The bread winner is the step-father-in-law.

You're the one who is repeatedly making assumptions based on gender while I'm staying gender neutral. Crazy as it sounds but same-sex couples also make these decisions too To assume that the woman assuredly (as if there's no way she could have a higher income, have a high level of credit balance afford to her, etc) has the lesser of the credit score smacks of hypocrisy when you're talking about gender inequality.

There's no denying gender inequality exists but let's not put those words in my mouth. I'm discussing individuals choosing to select whomever has the better credit score to be the PNI on auto or home insurance if that's the route they want to go. It's their choice but there are other important choices/routes (that I already mentioned) out there as well.

I'm done with the back and forth because it feels more like at this point. Have a great evening though!

 

[china mom]

Mackenzie, Thank you for the interesting insight into insurance matters. I dis manage to get through all the acronyms . Follow-up question: If a couple both have credit scores north of 800 and within a couple of points of each other, is there any effect on rate?

DH and I are usually neck and neck with our scores (we have a joking competition about it). I have no idea who had the higher score on the days we opened each policy but we are usually within five points of each other.

 

[aprilchem]

I am a Dr. and my husband is a Mr. - you wouldn't believe how many times we get mail, invitations, etc., where we are called "Dr. and Mrs. Aprilchem". People assume he is the Dr. based on his gender, and it really, really irritates me. We got a wedding invite from my own cousin that was addressed that way just last week!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Mackenzie, Thank you for the interesting insight into insurance matters. I dis manage to get through all the acronyms . Follow-up question: If a couple both have credit scores north of 800 and within a couple of points of each other, is there any effect on rate?

DH and I are usually neck and neck with our scores (we have a joking competition about it). I have no idea who had the higher score on the days we opened each policy but we are usually within five points of each other.

You're welcome

Assuming the company is using credit score hmm my opinion is probably not unless it went between ranges (if that's what the company is using) like for instance 800-825 and then 826-850. However, depending on how the company rates policies even that difference in ranges may not translate into much if any difference in premium (just depends on how they rate).

Most companies these days are using complicated algorithms for your premium so honestly it's a bit hard. It's not unheard of for agents to do quotes on both individuals to present a side by side though. Many years ago you could manually rate more easily though throughout the companies.

Funny y'all do a competition lol. When I mentioned in a different comment that my score was better than my husband's it wasn't too too different (like we both still had very good credit) but given that his income was so much different than mine we found it interesting ourselves. We could see though on our credit reports the various things over time that affected our score.

 

[Hikergirl]

I am a Dr. and my husband is a Mr. - you wouldn't believe how many times we get mail, invitations, etc., where we are called "Dr. and Mrs. Aprilchem". People assume he is the Dr. based on his gender, and it really, really irritates me. We got a wedding invite from my own cousin that was addressed that way just last week!

I find it odd that people in your own family don't know you have a doctorate.
My dh is a PhD, and while any personal mail he receives isn't addressed to "Dr." his family and friends all know he is one.
You should reply that they sent it to the wrong people

 

[design_mom]

That's really frustrating and I totally believe it.

For several years, my husband and I worked in the same suburb and carpooled to work. He kept the car and was far enough away that I could not easily access it. The kids were young then and I made sure to put HIM as the primary contact for everything school/daycare related. I was the secondary contact. They called me first every. single. time. (And, no, they didn't try to get ahold of him first, then call me when they couldn't.) The second year I even wrote "Please call dad first. He has the car!" on the form, and even *that* didn't work.

 

[NotUrsula]

That's really frustrating and I totally believe it.

For several years, my husband and I worked in the same suburb and carpooled to work. He kept the car and was far enough away that I could not easily access it. The kids were young then and I made sure to put HIM as the primary contact for everything school/daycare related. I was the secondary contact. They called me first every. single. time. (And, no, they didn't try to get ahold of him first, then call me when they couldn't.) The second year I even wrote "Please call dad first. He has the car!" on the form, and even *that* didn't work.

I have the same thing happen constantly. We do use 2 cars, but my office is WAY across town, while his is less than 2 miles away, so it makes sense for him to go to the school if someone needs to get there quickly; it takes me nearly an hour. Recently we discovered that our daughter might need some regular therapy during school hours for a vision issue, and when DH called to make the appointments, no one returned his calls. Apparently, they were calling and leaving voicemail messages for me instead. Trouble with that is that I'm hard of hearing, and I usually cannot understand voicemail, so I ignore it unless I'm expecting a call or recognize the number.

Funny story the other way 'round. This happened 6 years ago. We had a bit of civil unrest here that closed the schools for a couple of days. My children had been pestering me to get another cat, so I decided that a trip to the animal shelter would be just the ticket to distract them from mayhem in the streets. Off we go, they pick out a kitty, I fill out the paperwork, and then I get told, "We are going to have to call your husband to make sure you have permission to adopt a pet." WTH?!
It seems that they had a new rule that required them to check the property tax rolls for home ownership, and if you were a renter they were checking with the landlord to make sure that you had permission to have a pet -- it was so that they did not get returns from folks whose leases specified no pets. Fair enough rule, but DH & I are joint homeowners, and we own the house free & clear. I know for a fact that my name is on the property tax roll along with his, but his is first, and our last names are different. However, the shelter staff were working from a printout, and it seems that it had truncated the names, so that mine was not on the printout. I couldn't reach DH because he was in court, and they were adamant that they had to hear from him or no adoption. I offered to go get the property tax receipt, but no, that wouldn't do, they wanted it from the horse's mouth. We had to wait around the shelter for 2 extra hours until he returned my call, whereupon he nearly wet himself laughing at the idea of my needing his permission to do something. (He told me he was really tempted to tell the shelter lady that he had no idea who I was, but thought better of it, which is a darned good thing, because I probably would have reached through the phone and strangled him at that point.)

 

[pearlieq]

DVC pulled that garbage on me. I made every one of our purchases and he's never once spoken to them. Guess who's the "member" and who's the "associate"??? I was forced, years ago, to get his permission to make transactions with the contracts I bought.

My name comes first alphabetically. We didn't finance so income/credit had nothing to do with the transaction. It's just straight up sexism.

I've been around long enough to have seen a few of these discussions on the DIS. It's amazing how invested some people are in coming up with the flimsiest excuses as to why it couldn't possibly have been sexism: "Maybe asparagus was in season the day you bought! It's industry standard that men's names are always listed first when asparagus is in season, so sexism definitely doesn't exist!"

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

DVC pulled that garbage on me. I made every one of our purchases and he's never once spoken to them. Guess who's the "member" and who's the "associate"??? I was forced, years ago, to get his permission to make transactions with the contracts I bought.

My name comes first alphabetically. We didn't finance so income/credit had nothing to do with the transaction. It's just straight up sexism.

I've been around long enough to have seen a few of these discussions on the DIS. It's amazing how invested some people are in coming up with the flimsiest excuses as to why it couldn't possibly have been sexism: "Maybe asparagus was in season the day you bought! It's industry standard that men's names are always listed first when asparagus is in season, so sexism definitely doesn't exist!"

No one is really denying sexism here for the OP's situation. The OP doesn't remember how it went down when it was set up other than they were the one to call. It's unlikely the agent remembers either given the length of time though they can certainly ask if they really want to. Kinda hard to go with "it was sexist" as in absolutely. It could be or it could not be. That doesn't mean sexism isn't around though.

And again I'm saying you (general you) as the individual is choosing to go with the person who has a better credit score when discussing how to quote/write the policy either through the agent directly or completing an online quote. There's no need to apply that statement to assume something else. It's just a fairly straightforward comment unless you've never ever discussed your credit with your partner.

Time Shares are an industry still beholden to the old days though and sexism or rather the concept of a married couple is still prevalent enough. People have had issues with DVC denying them tours because they didn't come with their spouse. I suppose DVC's assumption is that you won't pull the trigger and buy right then and there without the spouse regardless of how finances are handled in one's relationship or that you have to be in one to begin with. We've run into a tad of that behavior when Hilton asked us if we wanted to do a tour.