Has Disney’s DAS Pass Become A DASaster?

[lanejudy]

Mainly because many people, most especially people with conditions that render them disabled and almost all children) probably visit the physician at least once a year. So I think that argument is probably not the best one.

Even if someone has a regular physician, most charge to complete forms or write letters - especially if it is not at the time of the appointment. Insurance does not cover such charges. Plus it would become an expense to WDW to contract with an outside company to review documentation. That cost would ultimately get passed along to all WDW guests in higher ticket prices. And I suspect the sheer volume of guests at WDW doesn't come close to matching volume of people visiting a Six Flags park. Costs on the guests, costs on the business.

 

[lanejudy]

I should have clarified that I don't expect ECVs and wheelchairs to be free -- I would have expected DAS to accommodate mobility issues, which I hear they regularly don't.

WDW offers an another accommodation to those with mobility issues -- mainstreamed queues or alternate entrances without using a DAS. The accommodation offered does not need to be your preferred accommodation, just one that meets your needs. Including all mobility users to DAS and subsequently the LL will only cause more problems with that queue, which becomes a "fundamental change" to the experience for all guests. Exactly one of the issues Disney changed when shifting from GAC to DAS.

 

[SueM in MN]

The six flags system also doesn’t require only View attachment 711101a doctor’s note. This is a screenshot - a note from an educational professional suffices for the system they use to verify.

This is just as ripe for the abuse concern you’ve noted as what Disney is doing.

Again, making disabled people responsible - and face more barriers to access - because of the abuses of non-disabled people only hurts those this system is trying to accommodate.

And, despite all the proof they require, 6 Flags uses basically the same language as Disney for guests who are found to have used it fraudulently.

 

[juuuliebeth]

I don't see how it would help much. If the DAS accommodated mobility issues, how would you get the user to the rides? There is an awful lot of walking to the rides, nevermind the ride queues.

I, at the ripe old age of 55, need a scooter at WDW. I can walk, but without one after a while my left leg starts to kick out on it's own, and I lose my balance, and will fall if I can't brace myself. Say I have a DAS at it is for my mobility needs. What exactly does the DAS do for me?

Just because it wouldn't help you doesn't mean it wouldn't be helpful for someone else. There are MANY reasons someone would need a scooter or wheelchair. And Mobility Issues can mean a lot of things, not just that someone can't walk or has a hard time walking. Sometimes it's pain that starts to aggravate at a certain point, and cutting down on the amount of standing/walking would help. Sometimes folks get wobbly when they have to start and stop walking over and over again for hours on end.

I think sometimes people misunderstand that DAS isn't supposed to solve all their problems. There's no way it could. It's just a aid to make it a little bit easier. And what it provides to one guest may not be what it provides to another. For one, it's time to take care of their needs. For another, it eliminates/limits painful activities. For me, it allowed me to prioritize staying in the AC or shade as much as possible. It wouldn't eliminate the need for ECVs and wheelchairs. It would supplement it.

 

[Angel Ariel]

And, despite all the proof they require, 6 Flags uses basically the same language as Disney for guests who are found to have used it fraudulently.View attachment 711112

Right.

People had no issues getting fake vaccination exemptions or fake mask exemptions. Why does anyone think a letter is going to impact people who are looking to abuse the system?

 

[juuuliebeth]

WDW offers an another accommodation to those with mobility issues -- mainstreamed queues or alternate entrances without using a DAS. The accommodation offered does not need to be your preferred accommodation, just one that meets your needs. Including all mobility users to DAS and subsequently the LL will only cause more problems with that queue, which becomes a "fundamental change" to the experience for all guests. Exactly one of the issues Disney changed when shifting from GAC to DAS.

Again -- let me clarify. (Internet discourse makes conversations like this tricky, so I apologize.) I don't mean that all wheelchairs and ECVs should use the DAS line. I understand the negative impact that would cause. What I meant was that some people have mobility/pain issues that wheelchairs and ECVs wouldn't solve.

For instance, my friend's father has rods in his back that actually make sitting more painful than walking/standing, but walking is still painful, especially on concrete. Allowing him to cut down on the walking and standing without requiring him to have to sit, which is also painful, should be approved in my opinion. Maybe that's not technically a "mobility issue" and that's where I messed up in expressing what I meant.

Disability is a tricky monster. I'm aware there's no system that will work for everyone. I've heard of people getting turned down for the DAS pass for pain reasons because they're told to use a wheelchair or ECV, and I think that's too bad.

 

[Disneychick13]

I finally got it!

1. You can’t ask for a physician to fill out a form describing your needs. It’s against privacy laws.
2. You can ask for a form to be filled out, but only if it’s for a system that is an Otherwise paid system.
3. You can’t ask for a form to be filled out for a system that is otherwise paid but “different”
4. The DAS system is not widely abused, how dare you say so.
5. The DAS system will be widely abused if you ask for a form to be filled out.
6. It is so hard to get a form filled out that no one can do it.
7. It is so easy to get a form filled out that it will be widely abused.
8. Getting a form filled out won’t work.
9. People will just fake the forms and it will be a widespread problem.
10. People faking a disability is not a widespread problem.
11. Having an opinion about how many people abuse the system/how hard or easy to fill out a form is ridiculous.

Do I have that right? It’s hard to work my way around the contradictions…..

This is really personal to me. My dearest sweetest friend has a child that qualifies for and uses the DAS. I am thrilled that she can use it. But it is abhorrent to me that even one person would abuse the system. That is why I would love if they would require some kind of proof.

At the end of the day, if it is not within the ability of Disney to change the system to lesson the amount of cheaters, then I‘LL be ok with it. Because I would never want people who qualify to not have it. But dang if it doesn’t irritate me to the 9th degree. I’m with you guys, you just can’t see it……

Sigh.
I’ll leave y’all to it.

 

[lanejudy]

Disability is a tricky monster. I'm aware there's no system that will work for everyone. I've heard of people getting turned down for the DAS pass for pain reasons because they're told to use a wheelchair or ECV, and I think that's too bad.

If someone is denied DAS and then find they are still unable to access attractions, they should return to Guest Relations to discuss options. Armed with specifics of what occurred, where and when, they may be able to get a DAS issued.

 

[Genie+]

I

I’m not a lawyer (and don’t play one on TV - LOL), but this is the part of the ADA I’ve always been told/understood to be one of the main reasons why doctor’s letter or proof of disability can’t be required under the ADA Title III, which includes public accommodations like businesses and entertainment, like Theme Parks.
(Proof/documentation can be required in some situations for Title I, which covers employment). My bold:
Quote:

§ 36.301 Eligibility criteria.​

• (a) General. A public accommodation shall not impose or apply eligibility criteria that screen out or tend to screen out an individual with a disability or any class of individuals with disabilities from fully and equally enjoying any goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations, unless such criteria can be shown to be necessary for the provision of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations being offered.
• (b) Safety. A public accommodation may impose legitimate safety requirements that are necessary for safe operation. Safety requirements must be based on actual risks and not on mere speculation, stereotypes, or generalizations about individuals with disabilities.
• (c) Charges. A public accommodation may not impose a surcharge on a particular individual with a disability or any group of individuals with disabilities to cover the costs of measures, such as the provision of auxiliary aids, barrier removal, alternatives to barrier removal, and reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures, that are required to provide that individual or group with the nondiscriminatory treatment required by the Act or this part.

§ 36.302 Modifications in policies, practices, or procedures.​

• (a) General. A public accommodation shall make reasonable modifications in policies, practices, or procedures, when the modifications are necessary to afford goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations to individuals with disabilities, unless the public accommodation can demonstrate that making the modifications would fundamentally alter the nature of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations.

END QUOTE and This is the link to the ADA regulation. There are other technical bulletins and official business summaries that say the same.

Requiring a doctor letter or other proof of disability does tend to screen out people. For example, the kind of ‘hoops’ they need to go thru to get the proof might include a doctor visit, paying for the doctor visit and/or letter, even finding a doctor.
From what I’ve read, it appears that the ‘loophole’ some theme parks are using to require a letter from a physician is that it’s « necessary for the provision of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations being offered. « Because they offer different levels of accommodation, they use the letter to determine the level offered to the guest.
I have also read that requiring a doctor note could possibly be interpreted as a ‘surcharge’.

The Modifications part does talk about the need for ‘reasonable modifications’ when they are necessary for disabled guests access. In the autism GAC (Guest Assistance Card) lawsuit, the plaintiffs tried to argue that the only accommodate that would fit their needs was immediate, unlimited access to attractions. Disney was successfully able to argue that was not necessary for the plaintiffs and that it was not reasonable because it would fundamentally and negatively alter the nature/Experience for other guests.

And at the end of the day I don’t think DAS exists solely to cover minimum legal requirements of ADA. Does Disney strive to help accommodate issues that would otherwise leave guests and their party unable to reasonably enjoy the parks? I think so.

The article struck me wrong by wanting to rewrite DAS with some simple yet stringent guidelines around perceived righteousness with little regard to the countless intricacies involved. The author goads readers into deciding who should/shouldn’t be granted access and when those folks should/shouldn’t use it. There was an attempt.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I finally got it!

1. You can’t ask for a physician to fill out a form describing your needs. It’s against privacy laws.
2. You can ask for a form to be filled out, but only if it’s for a system that is an Otherwise paid system.
3. You can’t ask for a form to be filled out for a system that is otherwise paid but “different”
4. The DAS system is not widely abused, how dare you say so.
5. The DAS system will be widely abused if you ask for a form to be filled out.
6. It is so hard to get a form filled out that no one can do it.
7. It is so easy to get a form filled out that it will be widely abused.
8. Getting a form filled out won’t work.
9. People will just fake the forms and it will be a widespread problem.
10. People faking a disability is not a widespread problem.
11. Having an opinion about how many people abuse the system/how hard or easy to fill out a form is ridiculous.

Do I have that right? It’s hard to work my way around the contradictions…..

This is really personal to me. My dearest sweetest friend has a child that qualifies for and uses the DAS. I am thrilled that she can use it. But it is abhorrent to me that even one person would abuse the system. That is why I would love if they would require some kind of proof.

At the end of the day, if it is not within the ability of Disney to change the system to lesson the amount of cheaters, then I‘LL be ok with it. Because I would never want people who qualify to not have it. But dang if it doesn’t irritate me to the 9th degree. I’m with you guys, you just can’t see it……

Sigh.
I’ll leave y’all to it.

No, you don’t have it. You’ve taken statements and twisted them. No one here has claimed there’s no abuse of the system.

You want to talk personal, because a friend of yours has a child who uses the system? You’re talking to people who use the system themselves and/or are parents of those children who need the system.

Does it anger me to know that people abuse the system? Yes. Is it my responsibility, or the responsibility of my disabled daughter, or of your friend’s disabled child, to bear the consequences for those who would do that? No. That’s what you’re asking, though. You just aren’t seeing it.

 

[lanejudy]

But it is abhorrent to me that even one person would abuse the system.

It's abhorrent to me that people steal from stores, also. It directly impacts availability of products, prices charged to the honest people, and causes loss to the business in terms of not only lost sales but extra costs for security. But sometimes we just have to accept the fact that there are cheaters everywhere and no system will be fool-proof.

 

[juuuliebeth]

Sigh.
I’ll leave y’all to it.

Took a long and weird post to get there, but yes, you finally got it.

 

[Genie+]

But it is abhorrent to me that even one person would abuse the system.

This is part of the issue. Joe Public trying to decide exactly where that line is crossed. It’s not as easy as it sounds.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I don't see how it would help much. If the DAS accommodated mobility issues, how would you get the user to the rides? There is an awful lot of walking to the rides, nevermind the ride queues.

I, at the ripe old age of 55, need a scooter at WDW. I can walk, but without one after a while my left leg starts to kick out on it's own, and I lose my balance, and will fall if I can't brace myself. Say I have a DAS at it is for my mobility needs. What exactly does the DAS do for me?

A personal example: I have multiple autoimmune diseases. Due to those, my knees are now bone on bone & my spine is deteriorating. I can walk, but can't use steps without paying for it severely. Standing still for very long causes major pain that ends my day. A DAS would allow me to enjoy the parks with a cane, which I use at home on bad days (which are frequent), without needing a wheelchair. I don't currently own a wheelchair, because I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to stay at home on days that I can't walk with a cane. On those days, I'm in too much pain to do anything anyway. I'm one of those people who has to pay extra to have equal access at the parks. I also wouldn't have a problem showing proof of my disability in order to not have to use a wheelchair. Since my health will only get worse, I can't imagine why I'd need to go to the doctor for a new note each time I needed to get a DAS. FWIW, I'm not saying others shouldn't have a problem with providing a note. I'm just saying I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

[notatallmagic]

No, I have a family member that uses DAS. And my daughter is eligible for DAS so I try to stay pretty well informed. And I have read multiple times that advanced selections have stayed active for some users. You don’t have to believe me but it does happen.

I think that’s great you and many others are using the DAS wait times to take care of your needs! That’s definitely why DAS is in place and exists in its current format. Again, you will read that I said I don’t want the DAS program to go away. I don’t want the accommodations to change. All I pointed out was that I thought their verification process for issuing DAS should be more robust. Which I pointed out they COULD do because they are providing better access than a regular standby guest.

Thank you for clarifying. My recommendation would be better training for the Cast Members involved in the process. I've heard many stories of people who need, and have always been granted, a DAS (including my kiddo) being reduced to tears by ignorant Cast Members who accuse them of gaming the system.

We've also had wonderful Cast Member experiences, so there seems to be little consistency there. Today's interaction with Universal was an A+; as we have decided to take a break from being Disney AP, and spend our time/$$ at Universal this year. I just agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said that the folks who NEED the DAS shouldn't be the ones to pay the price for those who are trying to cheat the system, and that seems to be what is happening.

 

[notatallmagic]

My family found that some of my daughter’s DAS Advance Selections remained active after an hour and others didn’t. Remaining active after an hour was not something that could be relied on; it was not a feature, it was a glitch.

Agreed; on one trip, our flight was delayed, and we missed our first selection. We went to a blue umbrella, where we were told (since the selection was no longer visible on MDE) that they would add it back as a courtesy (since we showed them the flight delay on the airline app), but that this was a one time courtesy. We have never experienced any other attraction being available past the one hour window.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Deleted (Moderator Action)

To be clear, im not defensive about possible changes to the program. If we ever have to prove it with a letter or what have you, we will do so. the magic for our daughter is worth it.

I am disturbed and offended by the idea that it’s my child’s responsibility to bear the consequences of the abuses of others adults. This discussion could entirely be framed as how to provide better training to Disney CMs who assign DAS and how to better hold the abusers accountable, but that’s not what’s happening. it’s easier to tell disabled people to prove their disability than either of those two things. And that’s rather problematic, imo.

 

[Lilsia]

This is why I hate that they don't include mobility issues in DAS eligibility. They say you can use a wheelchair or ECV, but those cost money to rent. How is that not a surcharge? If their alternative to DAS requires you to spend money, it's not an accommodation.

I believe this falls under where you need to help yourself a bit. Expecting a company to give you an aid for your disability is onerous on the company. Just like a company is not required to give you glasses if you can't see well, or hearing aids. Some of that falls on the person. The accommodations can not put an undue burden on the business, and freely providing wheelchairs or ECVs most definitely is a burden. They have accommodated mobility issues by making their queues accessible.

 

[Lilsia]

I should have clarified that I don't expect ECVs and wheelchairs to be free -- I would have expected DAS to accommodate mobility issues, which I hear they regularly don't. There are people with mobility issues that are exacerbated by having to stand and walk more at Disney than in their normal lives. They don't have their own wheelchair or ECV because they don't require it at home. (Or perhaps their insurance won't cover it and they can't afford it.)

It seems a bit far fetched that a person can walk around the whole park without a mobility aid, but all of a sudden can not walk the lines. If ever you want to see abuse, that is where it would be. If they gave out wheelchairs PLUS let you get a DAS because of it, or even just give a DAS for every mobility issue, that would have a ton of people abusing the system. Which is exactly what had happened previously. Families would rent a wheelchair to get to the front of the line for free. DAS and making the line accessible put a stop to that abuse. I have heard more then a few people yell at the cast members when that switched over and they were no longer able to get free front of the line service with their rented wheelchair. Anyone who has been going to the parks for decades has seen this. And we have seen the dramatic decline in wheelchairs and ECVs in the park since then.

 

[Lilsia]

A personal example: I have multiple autoimmune diseases. Due to those, my knees are now bone on bone & my spine is deteriorating. I can walk, but can't use steps without paying for it severely. Standing still for very long causes major pain that ends my day. A DAS would allow me to enjoy the parks with a cane, which I use at home on bad days (which are frequent), without needing a wheelchair. I don't currently own a wheelchair, because I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to stay at home on days that I can't walk with a cane. On those days, I'm in too much pain to do anything anyway. I'm one of those people who has to pay extra to have equal access at the parks. I also wouldn't have a problem showing proof of my disability in order to not have to use a wheelchair. Since my health will only get worse, I can't imagine why I'd need to go to the doctor for a new note each time I needed to get a DAS. FWIW, I'm not saying others shouldn't have a problem with providing a note. I'm just saying I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I understand what you are saying and how DAS could benefit you and others with mobility issues. But imagine if they gave a DAS to those with issues standing, problems with their knees, stamina, back problems, etc. That is like 40% or more of the people that go to WDW. You would have less people NOT using DAS then you would using it.