Have we reached the saturation point?

[rteetz]

This really has been an ongoing thing but with today's wine and dine registration I thought it would be a nice discussion to have.

Princess is sold out completely last I checked.

Dark side is still open and everything after that is as well.

Just the half marathon for wine and dine is $199 before active fees.

So the question is. Have we reached saturation point with runDisney? Are prices the issue? Have quality of races decreased? Is it something else?

What could runDisney do to improve their races? Can they reverse this trend?

 

[ImDMous]

We do Avengers every year and that's all we can afford. With the race prices, hotels and food it's not a trivial expense. We would love to do Star Wars also, but DH has to get all the Infinity Stones so we're locked in to that one. Compared to other non-Disney races, you really do get treated to a well-run event with lots of extras for the money so it's worth the splurge for us. But if they were cheaper we would definitely do more of them.

 

[Ariel484]

For me...
- it's expensive
- I don't like that they don't have deferrals or an option to purchase registration insurance
- I don't like having registrations so incredibly early
- the race weekends are becoming super similar - same distance options (no more 10-miler), same courses, no more night races

Not to say I'm done with runDisney, but after this year I'll likely stick to one weekend per year.

 

[camaker]

For me...
- it's expensive
- I don't like that they don't have deferrals or an option to purchase registration insurance
- I don't like having registrations so incredibly early
- the race weekends are becoming super similar - same distance options (no more 10-miler), same courses, no more night races

Not to say I'm done with runDisney, but after this year I'll likely stick to one weekend per year.

I think all of these are great points. In addition, it seems that the running boom is tailing off as people look to cross-fit, P90X or one of the other new high intensity training programs for their fitness. I would also add that local races seem to have upped their game with add-ons and swag while RunDisney has been busy drawing down the extras on theirs, essentially doubling down on the "destination race" concept to drive their sales more and more, resulting in more folks staying at home to get their races in.

 

[CamColt]

I really wanted to do W&D again this year, but with a few things going on I'm not sure how money will be in the fall, so I just can't commit to it this early. I was trying to make it work and thought I could but then I had to change my August cruise to 2 weeks earlier which increased the cost, about what I would be spending for a W&D trip so its on hold, possibly off.

So, I guess my reasoning is early registration, and the cost of everything Disney being so expensive.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

For me...
- it's expensive
- I don't like that they don't have deferrals or an option to purchase registration insurance
- I don't like having registrations so incredibly early
- the race weekends are becoming super similar - same distance options (no more 10-miler), same courses, no more night races

Not to say I'm done with runDisney, but after this year I'll likely stick to one weekend per year.

Well said, and I agree with every point. But I will continue running at WDW because I have become their target audience - a person who runs in a non-competitive way and also loves Disney.

I would love to see rD give runners the opportunity to see and do things while running that are not able to see/do otherwise. Night races offered that - a late party in the parks to celebrate your race with only other racers. It felt exclusive, and it was awesome. I would pay even more for that than I would for a morning half marathon.

 

[jaxonp]

Expense of the race has got to be number 1. Followed closely by the cost of everything else at Disney being almost higher than any other event race you'd attend. Because on top of your cost of travel, including flight and car. You've got the cost of hotel, food and theme park tickets. Not to mention the over priced merchandise that we love so much.

Even having the advantage of being AP and DVC still makes runDisney an expensive outing. I've just adjusted my trips to WDW to surround these events now and then add on an additional day or two before or after to become my trips.

I think it's interesting that Star Wars isn't selling out but the princess/tinkerbell weekends are says something interesting. Do we know if less people are running the race or is it that Disney has added more capacity?

 

[jhorstma]

I love Disney and the Disney marathon. Truly one of a kind. But for half marathons there are much cheaper and frankly much better options out there for my running vacation dollar. I think other folks are thinking the same way - run thru MK, run thru Disneyland, and then move on.

 

[ZellyB]

For me...
- it's expensive
- I don't like that they don't have deferrals or an option to purchase registration insurance
- I don't like having registrations so incredibly early
- the race weekends are becoming super similar - same distance options (no more 10-miler), same courses, no more night races

Not to say I'm done with runDisney, but after this year I'll likely stick to one weekend per year.

Agreed as well. I love the races, but there is a great deal of "sameness" to them so going for multiple race weekends in a year doesn't make much sense to me where not long ago I was all about doing ALL THE RACES!!! I'm excited to be doing Tink for a chance to experience a race at Disneyland and we are planning for marathon weekend again in 2018, but that may be our last for some time.

 

[opusone]

I think there are several factors that affect this trend:
1. National running trend (defined by number of running event finishers) has been decreasing since 2013.
2. National number of running events has actually increased (at least through 2015 - don't yet have data for 2016).
3. runDisney has added more running events in recent years.
4. runDisney has reduced the unique features of their races (or altogether canceled unique races), so less motivation to attend multiple races in one year.
5. runDisney races are very expensive (not just the entry fee, but the combination of entry fee, hotel, flight, food, car rental, add-on family vacation, etc).
6. Many folks first races were with runDisney (because they were Disney fans before they were runners), and then they either stopped after they checked it off the list, or they liked it and continued (maybe even increased their Disney trips because of the running weekends), but maybe they finally ventured out into the larger running community and found that there are many options for good races (especially local races). Plus, they may want to PR once they get more into it, and rD is not always the best for this (depending on corral placement).
7. runDisney races have huge economic risks for participants: I think Disney has been lucky in the past; however, in just the past few months, we have had a race shortened and a race cancelled (both for good reason). For a local race, it's no big deal if it's changed or cancelled, but this is much different if it's a destination race with huge expense. Also, they have increased economic risk of injury/pregnancy/etc by not allowing for a deferral process. Sure, they graciously provided a refund for the canceled half, but that is minor compared to all the costs associated with the race (for most folks).

Yes, I know runners have similar issues for the NYC, Chicago, Boston, Marine Corps, and LA marathons, but those events are only once per year (where I think Disney has many folks that attended multiple races per year), and those other races are oftentimes one and done (check it off the bucket list). I think rD has a much higher percentage of repeat customers (both for same event year-after-year as well as multiple events in one year), so for each person that decides to stop or reduce their frequency, it affects their overall participant pool greater.

 

[Castle2Castle]

I think it's hard to assess by itself since I think most runDisney participants view runDisney as part of a wider Disney package. As such, the price and perceived value of the parks probably factors in a bit, which could be understandably dampened while Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios remain under construction.

They also have a lot of repeat runners whose budgets are now stretched thinner with the addition of more race weekends and more challenges over the past couple years. Even those rare birds who were doing all the race weekends probably felt stretched to add in Avengers, Star Wars, and Paris. I think there have probably been fewer new runners than repeat runners for a while, but as the race schedule settles and people become more aware of them without the difficult registrations of two years ago, we may see them start to fill back up without getting too crazy.

I'm not totally shocked at things being a bit slower now, but I think it could owe to things other than those within runDisney's control. Open the parks back up to even better value than before, and let the race calendar really take roots, and we'll see how it looks then.

 

[Barca33Runner]

This is the first time I'm doing two race weekends in one year so I'm against trend, but I realize the trend exists. I've been saying for a while that I don't believe this is, at its core, a runDisney issue. This is largely a symptom of the running/road racing boom fading back to pre-boom levels.

I also believe rD is exacerbating this undeniable trend by increasing price, lowering quality, streamlining services and over-supplying the market. I think they have too many race weekends for all of them to sell out. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing for them yet because they can still make money on a weekend they don't sell out, but I could envision them dialing back the number of weekends on offer if a weekend stops being profitable.

For me, this is a situation you manage rather than one that you fix.

 

[Keels]

Pretty much everything mentioned above.

On top of that, TAs are having to FIRE SALE Princess this week to get rid of bibs - like $75 for a Half bib ... but you still have to commit to two nights in a room. That's killing TA sales for all race weekends.

For me, I'm not registering for any race unless I can get a discount or can do it through a group (i.e. Raw Threads or a TA for West Coast) where I have a cancellation option. So, basically, that means that I'm choosing to do mostly West Coast races over East Coast races - and I'm fine with that. Logistically, I find the West Coast races to be head-and-shoulders above those on the East Coast.

 

[Ariel484]

Well said, and I agree with every point. But I will continue running at WDW because I have become their target audience - a person who runs in a non-competitive way and also loves Disney.

Hey same!

 

[Keels]

Ditto what @BuckeyeBama said.

 

[Ariel484]

I think it's interesting that Star Wars isn't selling out but the princess/tinkerbell weekends are says something interesting. Do we know if less people are running the race or is it that Disney has added more capacity?

Small correction - Tink did NOT sell out last year and this year's challenge and half are still open.

 

[rteetz]

Great discussion everyone!

I have only ever done WDW weekend. I agree with what a lot of you said and it sounds like I really need to do at least one west coast race in the near future.

 

[PCFriar80]

This really has been an ongoing thing but with today's wine and dine registration I thought it would be a nice discussion to have.

Princess is sold out completely last I checked.

Dark side is still open and everything after that is as well.

Just the half marathon for wine and dine is $199 before active fees.

So the question is. Have we reached saturation point with runDisney? Are prices the issue? Have quality of races decreased? Is it something else?

What could runDisney do to improve their races? Can they reverse this trend?

Great questions and ones I always ask myself after I finish what I always say will be our last Disney race. Fast forward 2 days and I'm already planning on signing up for next years 1/2 marathon. Granted, we only do one RunDisney race and "only" the half because after 13 years of running this event we've merged vacation with running and come home relaxed. Price to us is relative to the event, but this experience is worth it to us. Not just the run, but the Expo and hundreds if not thousands of other runners you see or interact with. It keeps us healthy throughout the year, running and cross-training. Local 1/2 marathons in CT are in the $100 range and with that experience you get to run through Hartford...insert sarcasm.
I think that RunDisney has reached their capacity for bringing in more runners for certain races and adding new races, but with that said I anticipate
some expansion. RunDisney is most likely under pressure to grow and expand. Hopefully, they'll tweak some of the new issues [Expo] and ongoing issues with resort bussing, just to name a couple.

 

[Keels]

That's a good point, @PCFriar80 - my local half/marathon/Ultra is $140. I mean, Fort Worth is cool and all, but that's almost Disney price.

 

[rteetz]

Great questions and ones I always ask myself after I finish what I always say will be our last Disney race. Fast forward 2 days and I'm already planning on signing up for next years 1/2 marathon. Granted, we only do one RunDisney race and "only" the half because after 13 years of running this event we've merged vacation with running and come home relaxed. Price to us is relative to the event, but this experience is worth it to us. Not just the run, but the Expo and hundreds if not thousands of other runners you see or interact with. It keeps us healthy throughout the year, running and cross-training. Local 1/2 marathons in CT are in the $100 range and with that experience you get to run through Hartford...insert sarcasm.
I think that RunDisney has reached their capacity for bringing in more runners for certain races and adding new races, but with that said I anticipate
some expansion. RunDisney is most likely under pressure to grow and expand. Hopefully, they'll tweak some of the new issues [Expo] and ongoing issues with resort bussing, just to name a couple.

Good points. I have never done a local half or full so I can't speak for pricing around me. I do want to do one next year though.

I wonder what kind of expansion we will see in the coming months/years with runDisney. Obviously the most recent one is the Paris 10K and challenge.