Here Now, Should Have Been Just Back

[mikedoyleblogger]

In all honesty, I think you're making too much of it, being too sensitive about it. "Now everyone sing along!" is pretty common jarb for performers when it comes to popular songs. It doesn't translate into: "You have to do this!" And seeing as how Silent Night is probably the most well known Christmas carol around the world (seeing as how to date it's been translated into over 300 languages and dialects), it really isn't too much of an assumption on their part to think that most people have heard it/would know at least some of the lyrics.

It is a religious song with religious lyrics that a Disney CM is asking "everyone" at a restaurant to sing. "Everyone" cannot do that. "Everyone" is not the same. Why is this hard to understand?

 

[smiths02]

In that one instance, I didn't. Everything else was embracing enough to feel welcoming or not presumptive all around the World. And of course you don't attend the Candlelight Processional (which sounded awesome passing by) unless you intend to. But the band leader at Biergarten literally says something like, "Now everyone sing the lyrics in English!..." We did Biergarten twice this trip and sat through this part of the show twice as well. It wasn't "if you know the lyrics" or "if The spirit moves you" or anything like that. It came across pretty clearly as an assumption that no one could possibly not know the lyrics or not want to sing along and it really threw us out of the show both times.

It could be a cultural thing on the part of the band, or they may just say it every year, I don't know. But the moment felt very exclusionary--there's no way a sentence like that could possibly have included us--and that's why it felt un-Disney. For one awful moment, we were suddenly not part of "everyone" at Disney.

I just think the "Now everyone sing along..." is how they do it. Many performers talk like this. It is assumed that if you don't want to join in (or can't) that you won't. You weren't singled out, correct?

 

[Marthasor]

Neither you nor anyone else in this thread has any right to tell someone else how to determine whether they feel or have a right to feel excluded. Your assumption and the assumption of others in this thread--who have turned this thread overtly religious and thinly nasty--that everyone feels or should feel like you do was the problem at Biergarten entirely.

I don't think this is overtly religious at all. People who didn't speak German or English were "excluded" from this portion of the show as well. It also could have been a language barrier. I think people on here are reacting the way they are because you were thinking of writing to guest relations to ask the German band to stop singing a German Christmas carol. I'm sorry, but it does sound a little absurd. Trust me, I'm not a big fan of Biergarten and have had two, not great experiences there (one which I will chalk up to a language barrier), but I'm not sure what you expect from writing to guest relations on this one. Do you want them to phrase the invitation to sing differently? Not sing their Christmas carol?

 

[goofy4tink]

I'm always sorry when anyone feels excluded or unrecognized while at WDW. I doubt that anyone official at WDW intended that to be the case. But, I have to ask...I don't understand why being in the presence of those singing Silent Night, because it's a Christmas carol, bothers some but it's just fine to attend MVMCP. It's a Christmas party, it's a Christmas carol. I'm really interested in understanding what the difference is.
As far as the holiday ending to IllumiNations goes....it's not religious at all. It's about peace around the world. I think that's a sentiment all religions/views can stand behind.

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

I don't think this is overtly religious at all. People who didn't speak German or English were "excluded" from this portion of the show as well. It also could have been a language barrier. I think people on here are reacting the way they are because you were thinking of writing to guest relations to ask the German band to stop singing a German Christmas carol. I'm sorry, but it does sound a little absurd. Trust me, I'm not a big fan of Biergarten and have had two, not great experiences there (one which I will chalk up to a language barrier), but I'm not sure what you expect from writing to guest relations on this one. Do you want them to phrase the invitation to sing differently? Not sing their Christmas carol?

That's not what I said in my original post. There is no problem with singing the song in either language. The problem is the way the audience is invited to sing. The invitation does not allow for the possibility that anyone would not be able to or wish to sing along, and the invitation should allow for those possibilities.

 

[goofy4tink]

That's not what I said in my original post. There is no problem with singing the song in either language. The problem is the way the audience is invited to sing. The invitation does not allow for the possibility that anyone would not be able to or wish to sing along, and the invitation should allow for those possibilities.

So, would it have been better if they had said 'Those who wish to join us in singing, please feel free to do so'? I know that in the Silent Night section of the CP, they don't way anything, they just light up the audience which is the universal sign to join in with the singing...the audience is expected to participate, if they choose to.

 

[mshanson3121]

That's not what I said in my original post. There is no problem with singing the song in either language. The problem is the way the audience is invited to sing. The invitation does not allow for the possibility that anyone would not be able to or wish to sing along, and the invitation should allow for those possibilities.

Unless they said, "Now everyone HAS TO (must etc) sing along", yes, it did in fact allow for the possibility that anyone who does not wish to sing along, does not have to. Just through common sense, it's clear they were not issuing an order, but by your own words rather, issuing an invitation, which people have the right to choose to accept or reject. I'm not sure why this is so hard for YOU to understand

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

I'm always sorry when anyone feels excluded or unrecognized while at WDW. I doubt that anyone official at WDW intended that to be the case. But, I have to ask...I don't understand why being in the presence of those singing Silent Night, because it's a Christmas carol, bothers some but it's just fine to attend MVMCP. It's a Christmas party, it's a Christmas carol. I'm really interested in understanding what the difference is.
As far as the holiday ending to IllumiNations goes....it's not religious at all. It's about peace around the world. I think that's a sentiment all religions/views can stand behind.

Thank you @goofy4tink. As I said above, it's not about the singing at all, but the invitation which has a pretty strong built in assumption. We never really experience assumptions like that from WDW shows or CMs, and that's why it struck us as so odd. The wording of the invitation is the problem--it gives no one who isn't Christian an out or even recognition that they could even be sitting in the same audience. That's the thing.

I understand why a PP had an issue with the Illuminations tag. "Peace on earth goodwill toward men" is in lots of secular greetings, but it is also a quote from the New Testament.

I had no intention of starting or participating in a religious post here. In my post I was just sharing my feelings about one brief moment in a six-day trip.

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

Unless they said, "Now everyone HAS TO (must etc) sing along", yes, it did in fact allow for the possibility that anyone who does not wish to sing along, does not have to. Just through common sense, it's clear they were not issuing an order, but by your own words rather, issuing an invitation, which people have the right to choose to accept or reject. I'm not sure why this is so hard for YOU to understand

Again, you have no right to tell a member of a minority how to identify language that excludes them. Making fun of it when it happens is disgusting.

 

[OhioStateBuckeye]

Sounds like you had a pretty good trip. Personally, I wish Disney world would do even more decorating for Christmas haha, so I think we are opposite. Seems like besides main Street, which is Christmas explosion, a lot of the rest of the mk is distinctly lacking in Christmas.

I think I can see the contemporary as like the Disneyland hotel. Might be the giant Mary Blair mural.

I wouldn't give the German musicians a second thought. That's just a phrase musicians use that personally, I always ignore because my singing voice sounds like a cat on a fence at night.

 

[mshanson3121]

Again, you have no right to tell a member of a minority how to identify language that excludes them. Making fun of it when it happens is disgusting.

And you should learn to remember the expression about making assumptions.

1. This thread hasn't been turned into anything religious.
2. I'm seriously wondering how your brain is working on this one, because no one is making fun of anyone here.
3. My mother is part of the same minority you are. So, you're barking up the wrong tree.

 

[SaintsManiac]

OP I completely understand where you're coming from. I'm glad you had a good trip!

 

[Boski]

You know Disney is really missing the boat here......in their current thinking of "add on" specials why hasn't Disney created at MFFTROUP. It would give those of us who don't celebrate xmas our own party!

(feeble attempt at a joke, trying to keep the thread from heading south!)

 

[Karin1984]

And you should learn to remember the expression about making assumptions.

1. This thread hasn't been turned into anything religious.
2. I'm seriously wondering how your brain is working on this one, because no one is making fun of anyone here.
3. My mother is part of the same minority you are. So, you're barking up the wrong tree.

You did on 2. Your smiley at the end of the sentence and the capitalization of the word you can be seen as making fun of how the OP doesnt understand your pov. The OP has a different view on this then others on this board and not everyone in this thread seems to want to accept this.

 

[MrsIncredibleNY]

I'm sorry you felt excluded by the singing and the over the top Christmas vibe. My family is secular and we are still looking forward to our Christmas trip because we like the holiday season and cheesiness. The only thing we're skipping is the Epcot Christmas story because that's not our thing. I hope you get home safely and happy anniversary!

 

[mshanson3121]

You did on 2. Your smiley at the end of the sentence and the capitalization of the word you can be seen as making fun of how the OP doesnt understand your pov. The OP has a different view on this then others on this board and not everyone in this thread seems to want to accept this.

The smiley was in direct reference to an earlier comment he made to me, about me not understanding his POV, if you care to look back and follow the conversation.

 

[mshanson3121]

You know Disney is really missing the boat here......in their current thinking of "add on" specials why hasn't Disney created at MFFTROUP. It would give those of us who don't celebrate xmas our own party!

(feeble attempt at a joke, trying to keep the thread from heading south!)

Joke or not, I've actually wondered why they don't do something for some of the other holidays/religious celebrations etc...

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

Circling around as my final post in this thread, I emailed Guest Services asking for the invitation to sing to be made more inclusive, and today received a callback from a GS CM saying my concerns were valid and that my feeling of not being included and request to improve the singing invitation would be forwarded to the Biergarten management team.

 

[maxiesmom]

Circling around as my final post in this thread, I emailed Guest Services asking for the invitation to sing to be made more inclusive, and today received a callback from a GS CM saying my concerns were valid and that my feeling of not being included and request to improve the singing invitation would be forwarded to the Biergarten management team.

Still have no idea how being asked to sing along could be construed as offensive...

And hoping they don't stop the singing in some insane over reaction

 

[Sargeant Tibbs]

I'm just very confused why this thread was locked, then deleted, and now it's back? Why? Is it because the op feels vindicated by the response of guest services, so now it's ok to continue the discussion because someone somewhat official validated him? I'm really at loss here as to why open, honest, and, for the most part, mature discussion was censored, but now ok? Censorship, I believe, is at the core of this entire thread.