Horizons: Was it Worth Saving?

[Uncleromulus]

Planogirl:
Thanks for the correct World of Motion ridr name--.
And you're right-I always zipped right on by the "showroom" at the end.

 

[d-r]

I'm sorry, but I am going to take a different view here.

Test track is not my favorite ride - by a long shot- but it is because it <strong>is not</strong> a thrill ride!

I sort of agree with AV, that it isn't very interesting subject matter to me personally, and that is no more thrilling than a ride in a convertable. There isn't a lot of thrill to test track because it isn't a thrill ride.

I completely disagree with the notion that you can find anything similiar to test track at six flags, ky. kingdom or kings island. I will admit that I haven't been to six flags or kings island in years, but unless something has changed dramatically there is nothing themed as well as test track. Yes, much of the theming is a GM commericial, but there is nothing at that level of theming at the typical amusement parks. And it is not a thrill ride on the caliber of the thrill rides at the typical amusement parks. And frankly, it is nice that there is at least one attraction that older kids can find some thrill out of at epcot (listen, when I was a teen we surely didn't want to ecpot). And, even though I don't find it that interesting, there is some educational value to it - the even if it only has the value of a 20-minute industrial film, the typical amusement parks don't even have that.

Please. Test track is not at all on the level of typical thrill park rides (1. Not that thrilling + 2. well themed and a little educational, if not that interesting). Also, the ride system is innovative. Please, please name me one thrill ride at ky. kingdom or visionland or six flags or cedar point or kings island that is similar to test track.

DR

 

[Lesley]

TT may not be a thrill ride (and I don't even think I said that per se...if I did, well, I mis-wrote) but it is not a family ride either. And I don't think anyone implied that Six Flags has anything like TT. But anyway...I can't even recall what I was responding too except perhaps the suggestion that WDW has too many family rides.

I thought this thread was about Horizons anyway...

 

[Poly Pal]

We loved Horizons for the message of hope and optomism it offered. Couldn't we use more of that given the terrible events of the last 6 months and the prospect of more bad to come?

It was Walt Disney who originally said, "If we can dream it, then we can do it!" Just hearing the phrase and the theme music from Horizons gives me goosebumps (the good kind!) Maybe I'm just too sentimental, but that was what I think Walt wanted families to take away from his parks.

Plus I'm a big COP fan and Horizons was much like an updated COP right down to the family it featured.

 

[Sandy Fisher]

Even if we agree that the building and ride needed refurbishing, the ideas are still "futuristic" in their own way. We still aren't living on the ocean floor (even tho' there are research vessels that make short stays possible). We aren't living in space, even tho' some astronauts do on the space station. The farming advancements haven't really happened other than irrigation systems in some areas. The communications with "video phones" are a reality but not in widespread use.

I think it would have been simple to keep the basis for the ride and just update it a little. As someone mentioned earlier, there are thousands (millions?) of people who never saw Horizons and would have enjoyed it. There surely is room at WDW for added expansion. And the new attractions would surely have found room somewhere. I don't think the location was chosen for a new attraction simply because it was time to "move on" and abandon Horizons. But that seems to be the way to do things now --- tear it down and build something new!

oops, sorry. lost the thread there for a minute.

I found a stamp in a craft store that says "If you can dream it, you can do it" and I bought it to use on greeting cards. It's a nice thought to keep in the back of my mind. Sort of like wishing on a star ??

 

[DC7800]

Horizons represented all that was special about the original Epcot Center. It inspired us; leaving guests with a sense of awe, and full of hope and utter amazement about the future experienced in a day at Epcot. Horizons (and the rest of Epcot) simply spewed pixie-dust (how else do you explain the feelings Epcot & Horizons left you with?). Lesley said it even better:

Horizons appealed to a sense of wonder and optimism about the future...there was story going on there of some of the best kind...the kind where your imagination is challenged to consider the possibilities.

Horizons was truly a sight to behold - at least in 1983 when it premiered. The problem, of course, was a 1983 vision of the future looks rather dated in the mid-90's, dulling that sense of "awe" and wonder. Regular updates are the only solution (Disney could open an attraction about the future in 2002; left untouched, it too might look pretty awful in 10-15 years). For enduring years of neglect, I'll argue Horizons held up fairly well (and better in many ways than the original Tommorrowland). The amount of updating to "freshen" Horizons would not have been (should not have been) that dramatic, nor that expensive. The destruction of Horizons was a mistake, and a tremendous loss for Epcot.

For those who loved the original Epcot attractions (dark, "omnimover type", whole-family rides), only Spaceship Earth survives. Four major pavilions have been either forever lost or radically altered. Little wonder that many people (who formally raved over Epcot) now find much less there to stir the imagination (pun intentional). Naturally, dark rides aren't everyone's favorite type of attraction, hence the apparent attempt to "thrill-up" Future World. However, the "thrill-ride" crowd isn't exactly overjoyed with Future World either, for they have but a single thrill ride of their own - Test Track. This is a gross oversimplification of Epcot today, but you (hopefully) get my point.

WDW theme parks should offer something for everyone (but with almost every ride accessible to virtually all guests - too many recent efforts have been thrill rides). The ideal solution, of course, would have given us Horizons and Mission:Space, World of Motion and Test Track (in both cases, the rides actually complement each other!). Horizons, and the other "lost" attractions, could easily have been updated - brought back to high attendance, state of the art magic - and probably for less money than was wasted on the JIYI debacle, the Spaceship Earth “icon”, and other ill advised projects (the "hat"). This would have given Future World something for everyone - the thrill seeker and the family. Simply tearing them out seems like such a waste. Besides, if you lose a pavilion for every one you add, the park gains nothing long-term (hmm...guess we only "need" six attractions per day anyway, right?). Instead, to quote Lesley again:

Now we'll get yet another ride that will require a lengthy break in a child swap waiting area for many families, and will most likely not kindle that same sense of "possibility". Hmmm...what was it Walt wanted for his parks? A place where parents and children could have fun together? I don't think that statement was qualified with "over 40" tall"

Anyone can develop rides which produce excitement via thrills ("cheap thrills" all-too often, ie. Dinorama). In other words: "faster, wetter, wilder" rides that would feel right at home over at IOA or Six Flags. As AV noted:

In the end though, the pavilion fell victim to the desire to sell easy tickets. It’s much easier to sell motion-induced nausea than it is to appeal to the imagination.

Far greater skill, talent, imagination, and - of course - money is necessary to generate excitement through fantasy or story, yet that is what Disney has always done best. Indeed, such attractions are what WDW is known for - the reason we have passes to WDW instead of a regional ("Six Flags" type) park. There's no harm in a few rides with a thrill element, but there are very good reasons to avoid this element in the vast majority of (family) attractions.

 

[Annie&Hallie'sMom]

Beautifully said.

Horizons COULD have been updated. And SHOULD have been maintained. It was a crime what they let happen to that building (the place was a wreck, although the land was perfectly safe -- there was no sink hole by Horizons...there is, however, a sink hole in Epcot)

 

[Bob O]

I think the prolem with a ride like Horizons is that when you make a ride that purports to tell the future ages very badly and needs more updating than disney is willing to do and while some people here went ga-ga over the ride when you were at the park the lines werent their so people voted with their feet and if they went once it didnt get mutiple visits. You know if the ride would have been popular it wouldnt have been closed. Kind of the same reason why disney re did tomorrowland in MK, it became old so it was easier to give it a Jules Verne feel than always re-doing things as we progress in real time.
dc7800 if you are a diehard thrill fan you have no rides at Epoct. Test track is a good ride but isnt any where near a true thrill ride, now if your car flipped over several times to simulate a crash and then went 80mph and came to a sudden screech to avoid hitting a tree, then it could be a true thrill ride, right now its slower than most people go on the freeways.

 

[Testtrack321]

Originally posted by Annie&Hallie'sMom
Beautifully said.

Horizons COULD have been updated. And SHOULD have been maintained. It was a crime what they let happen to that building (the place was a wreck, although the land was perfectly safe -- there was no sink hole by Horizons...there is, however, a sink hole in Epcot)

Interesting...
A thread on WDWMagic.com had people battling it out saying that Horizons had...
-Abspesos
-Fire
-Sink Hole
-Structural Damage
-Hurracan Damage

 

[HorizonsFan]

When I first visited Epcot in 1994, I came away in awe of Horizons. It was something unlike anything I had ever experienced. World of Motion and Spaceship Earth made a significant impression on my as well but not like Horizons.
Horizons was the ultimate theatrical experience. All of your senses were involved in the show. Everything - the lighting, the sound, the smells, the movement was designed to make sure the audience was totally immersed in the experience and didn't miss a thing. It was Disney (and theatre) at it's best.
It wasn't the subject matter that made it so special to me. It was the brilliance of the concept. Total sensory immersion into the story with little effort from the audience.
Disney should seriously consider revisiting this concept...
I miss Horizons, but Mission Space has potential. Maybe we'll see some of the Horizons spirit in the new attraction. I hope so.

 

[King Triton]

Horizons and World of Motion were my favorite rides. Epcot hasn't been the same since. Those rides had the real Disney magic. Why can't Disney build a new Horizons? Everyone loved Horizons so why not bring it back?

King Triton

 

[Barb]

Add me to the list of fans of the original EPCOT attractions. They represented all that was special and unique about FW. I loved sitting back and absorbing each and every scene throughout these attractions. Boy, don't you just absolutely miss the smell of oranges?? It's a shame that "the powers that be" couldn't see a way to incorporate the best of both worlds. From what I've heard about Mission:Space, it's going to be a ride with a very strong "motion sickness advisory". It won't be anything close to what Horizons and World of Motion were. How sad that wonderful, inventive, interesting family attractions have to be trashed for an attraction for a limited audience.

 

[TDisneyC]

In my opinion, yes it was worth saving. I LOVED Horizons. To be it was a true Disney ride. It had all the magical elements that a Disney ride should posess. As a kid I always felt transported to another world while on that ride. It's sad that they removed it.

 

[eclipseSD]

I loved Horizons

 

[Bob O]

Mission Space will draw alot more crowds and be far busier than Horizons/World of motion ever was!!! TT almost always has a line(usually long!!) as compared to WOM which i found always to be a walk on as was Horzions.
Disney knows what rides attract visitors and which one's dont and made a great decison by getting rid of both rides as there time came and went which is evidenced by the amount of people who visited the attractions!!!
Mission Space will have a limited audenice which will include hours long waits in busy times and fastpasses running out early which NEVER would have occurred on either Horizons/WOM!!
Now if disney got rid of POTC/HM that would be tragic but both while old rides still develop long waits which didnt occur on WOM/Horzions.

 

[raidermatt]

Long lines for an attraction do not automatically mean its best for Disney.

I never rode WoM or Horizons, so I can't comment specifically on those. But generally speaking, dark rides have a greater capacity than most of the faster thrill type rides. So lines are far from a perfect benchmark.

Also, I think its probably true that ON AVERAGE, thrill ride fans do not spend as much as family ride fans. (yes, there are exceptions, and yes, you can be a fan of both)

A mix of both types is probably ideal, as evidenced by DL and MK, so its probably not such a bad thing for Epcot to add a few thrill rides. M:S brings the Epcot total to three. (BW, TT, and M:S).

They just need to keep the right balance for Disney, and not try to match the balance that other parks have. That's my main concern with the current direction. Most of the significant additions lately are thrill, and not family.

(My other concern is with the execution of the thrill rides that are added, like TT, but that's another discussion...)

 

[KidDurango]

I like most of you loved Horizons. Worked there for a time myself, and it was one of the few attractions where guests continually thanked me when they came off the ride. It was a pleasant little diversion.
That being said, I understand why it needed to go. The building itself was falling apart. The roof leaked like a Congressman with juicy gossip about his opponent. The estimates for repair at one time were almost as high as the cost of a whole new building. The ride system had also seen better days. Not many are aware but several months before the ride finally shut down, one of the gondola cars actually fell off the tracks due to stress fractures in the metal. Many of the parts were no longer available due to manufacturers going out of buisiness or simply no longer making 20 year old technology. Some of those parts could be rebuilt, but that was getting more difficult and extremely expensive.
When you add all this to the fact that it no longer drew even 1/3 of its capacity on most days, it was just too easy to make a justification for writing it off. For that attraction to continue running for another five years, it was going to cost almost as much as Mission: Space, and would not add significantly to park attendance.

 

[eclipseSD]

Did they sell the ride or destroy it?

 

[poober25]

Yes! I think Horizons and World of Motion should have both been kept. I recently returned from my 6th trip to Disney since 1985. I was 12 on my first trip. I always enjoyed both of these rides and sorely miss them now. And I HATE the changed to Imagination. I really feel, as some others on this board do, that Disney has decided that a family being able to experience things all together and have fun is no longer important. This was my first trip with my own children DS4 and DD1, also along were my mom and DH. My son was scared in the Journey into Imagination ride and I know he wouldn't have been scared in the old one.

Also, I don't remember the exit of every ride having gift shops before. I know Space Mtn. didn't and I don't think Imagination did either. I know that things have to updated and change with the times, but if they are going to take out attractions and put in new ones, I feel like they should put in the same type of attraction. I am glad that are some thrill rides in the parks, I love ToT, but I wanted my kids to have a magical experience, and they did, but DS hated Epcot, there was nothing there for him.

Everything seems to come down to the $$$ instead guests having the best experience they can. (ie why are the all the characters meals "all you can eat"? That's too much money and too much food.) I remember eating at the castle for lunch several time's when it was still called King Stefan's (I'm glad they changed the name, I always thought it was odd that Sleeping Beauty's father lived in Cindy's castle ) and Cinderella just being there occasionally. Anyway, I digress. The ride should have and could have been saved.

 

[Bob O]

Raidermatt-How many events have you gone too with coaster or thrill ride fans??????
I have gone to several coaster events and i have seen them spend more money than most families i have seen and they love to have souvenirs of their favorite rides etc, myself included!!!!! And i agree with a mix of bothtypes of attractions but unless something is a true classic which the rides mentioned werent IMHO and as evidenced by their popularity rides will be replaced once their ridership drops.
Disney does themselves no favors by having rides operate when they are used anywhere close to their capacity!!! It makes no sense to keep a ride operating when the ride has small amounts of people riding it.
The bottom line is if these rides had the ridership to justify them to still be operating they would be operating, the people voted with their feet and choose not to ride these rides!!!!!!