!$%&& how can such a smart kid make such a dopey decision?!

[bethbuchall]

Problem is, you have a girl. I have 2 boys and 1 girl. Boys are different, my Dr calls it boy brain. She has 6 boys all in college or older.

OP, My son has the same problem he is 13 and in pre AP classes. He sometimes just forgets to do homework or turn it in. Consequences don't matter to a boy with boy brain. It works for a little while but then boy brain comes back again.

I asked my pediatrician about this, she laughed and told me you know how all babies start out as XX and to become a boy it becomes XY, well the part that falls off to become the Y is their brain, and not to worry, it grows back eventually. Like I said she has 6. Almost everyone I have talked to, especially ones that are smart, seem to have this problem. It is like their brain just isn't in gear yet.

Apparently then I am raising 3 girls even though by all appearances two are male. I agree that there are differences, but responsibility to complete homework is not one of them.

 

[joviroxx]

A responsibility is a responsibility.. PERIOD. And at this age, school is really the only responsibility they have. If for some reason, they are having issues managing it all, then they should ask for help. Talk to either a teacher or parent. They can't just arbitrarily decide to do one assignment over another LOL! They need to learn how to solve the problem , not just avoid it. And NO, in my book, choosing NOT to do something, is not solving the problem. (Though I have to hand it to him for creative reasoning )

Ive got a 12 yr old boy, I sympathize with boy brain..it makes me crazy. I can't tell you how many times he actually gets assignments done early and then forgets to take them with him to school. Or leaves his book at school or some other absent minded thing!

 

[shortbun]

So I just checked my 12 year old son's grades on-line. He has nothing but 100's on tests and quizzes in Spanish class yet he has a 82 average. WHY does this kid have an 82? Because he was laboring under the impression that is was OK to SKIP homework in his language class so he can devote more time to Math, a class in which he has a 95 because Math is 'More important'. Arggghhhhh. My son totally did not hand in 2 easy peesy homework assignments because he was studying for Math instead and lost 28 points because of it.

Please heaven help me speak in language these kids can understand

Did I mention Arggghhhhh already?

I need to take deep breaths and count to 10.

Guess I got lucky. I had listened to lots of other parents complain about this issue and warned my son about skipping homework. He does have lots of work but knows that even if it only takes 10 minutes...every piece of homework must be turned in. He's figured out that most teachers do not grade homework so he doesn't give it his full effort sometimes. He still gets full credit for completing it.

The other night he came to me for help. He was supposed to read and summarize something. I told him to do it himself but he returned saying he didn't understand it. So, I asked to see the reading. It was a very difficcult excerpt from Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. My son can read really well but this was his first foray into really ancient, complicated, sophisticated writing. He really wanted to 'get it' because it was Frankenstein but it was just too tough. I read it to him. I happen to be a very good reader and have a bit of theatrics in me as well. He answered all his questions, did his summary and all was well. Last night, he read the next excerpt himself. Sometimes a parent is needed.

 

[Robinrs]

12 - male - dopey decision?

I think you answered your OWN question.

 

[Magpie]

You want "dopey"?!!

My son worked his butt off to get his math project in yesterday. He stayed up late to finish it.

And then he got to class and discovered that it isn't due until Friday!

Sometimes I despair that this kid will EVER get organized. Oh well, early is definitely better than late! (And considering the last several projects were late, maybe this will be a new trend...)

 

[LuvOrlando]

I'm going to try and answer everyone because I think everyone has good points. I guess that's why this is so frustrating, please bear with me while i organize my thoughts. I think writing out to you guys will help me sort out what I have to address with him KWIM

Honestly, I'd let him make the decisions and reap the consequences. If he's happy with an 82 in Spanish - AND he's actually learning the language - then deciding to spend his time on Math is his choice to make.

If it really bothers you, why don't you see if you can help him organize his time so that he can manage to get all of his work done over the course of a week? Make sure he's not procrastinating and putting things off until the last moment, or playing video games when he should be working. But also keep in mind that sometimes it really does come down to a choice of "Either I can do this tonight, or I can do that," and hard decisions have to be made. In that case, Math probably does take priority, and you can offer to write him a note explaining that the Spanish work will be in a day late.

Of course, I'm coming at this from a slightly different perspective. First off - anything over 80 percent is an A in my school district - it's considered to be "Exceeds Expectations", with grades in the 70's being "Meets Expectations". The way the rubrics work, a "9" (90%) is pretty much the best you can get.

Secondly - I'm jealous that you can check your kids grades online! I'm completely at the mercy of my kids and their teachers to tell me what's going on. Which is why I was blindsided last week when MY 12yo son's English teacher called to tell me that he was failing.

We've been working our butts off all weekend to get him caught up. I'll be doing a happy dance if I can get him up to "meets expectations".

The whole letting him do things for himself is a catch 22. He made this mess because I gave him the freedom to do it AND because he's just too immature to make good decisions for himself. This isn't really about organizing his time. My son, and my DD to be honest, never seem to have homework or study so to me this 82 is intolerable. I know I sound unreasonable but I'm really not. Some kids just need a different scale KWIM? If I saw studying and concern an 82 would be ok but that's just not what's going on. I know with absolute certainty that my kid was operating under the assumption that all obligations to school end at 3:00 because over the last month that kid has done nothing but drop his backpack off at the door when he walks in and pick it up again in the morning on his way to the bus. I think it's the work ethic that's making me mad to be honest.

Our school district uses something called "The Parent Portal" and it's wonderful. We have attendance and report cards on-line for all students but starting in Middle School we also get test scores, quiz grades, homework grades & daily schedules. The majority of teachers themselves maintain their own websites where homework, test dates and book report due dates are readily accessible. But the trouble here is I am trying to give my kids room to grow. I am trying to NOT check over their shoulders every step of the way. Letting go is hard.

I applaud him for making that decision. I think he has realized the priorities in his life and is doing what works. Depending on what he wants to do in college it CAN be more important that he get the A in math. It is also very important that you not fall behind in Math and that you understand every step or you will be screwed up down the road. So maybe it WAS more critical that he put more time and effort into Math at his point.

He is doing exactly what I've taught my kids to do and that is prioritize and do the most important first and work your way down. I think it is great he was able to do this. (and what I would have told my kids to do ) I would always have them sacrifice a For. Language grade over Math or Science or English.

So no help from me I think he made a great choice

You do make a good point that I didn't consider. I do not want him to lose the idea that Math is a subject that requires more attention so I need to be careful with what comes out of my mouth. When I read this post yesterday I called my kids into the kitchen and showed them how their grades are formulated with a pie graph, then I did GPA the same way. There is more to talk about with them but I did tell them that IF a situation were to present itself where they needed to choose, go with concentrating on the Math Based class but I also emphasized that this particular situation did not qualify.

DH and I have always made a big deal out of Math because it's so easy to get lost and almost impossible to catch up once you are lost. But, on the other hand, we never said the other subjects were less valuable. I need to be careful with this because I was obviously not getting the whole story across.

 

[LuvOrlando]

He's only 12. Those grades will mean squat by the time he's ready for college. His ability to learn to manage ALL of his homework is a more important skill at this age, because by the time they get to high school habits are already formed.

My kids have always been taught NEVER to skip homework. In our district, the quality of the answers is not graded...only that they worked and attempted all of the work. Its FREE points to help the average, and can save a kid who struggles on a test or quiz.

Would you set a $50 bill on fire and watch it burn? No...because that's a waste of money. This is precisely why our kids to their homework...because its a waste of points not to.

This is part of the dilemma. No way can a kid get a good GPA if some of the classes are ignored. I do think that Math requires more effort but there is a fine line between recognizing it requires more effort and sacrificing points. I agree with the fact that my kid made a very bad decision and sacrificed 28 points because of it.. who in their right mind does that?

Oh, I hear you loud and clear. My oldest, DS24, used to go to his teachers in HS and tell them about his "no homework policy." He never did the first bit of homework and his grades purely SUCKED. He barely graduated! And yet, he's a very well-read young man, very intelligent, but he didn't "get" that you have to play the game. Sheesh. No wonder I have gray hair.

All that said, I wouldn't be toooo hard on your boy. A nice solid 82 in foreign language isn't too shabby at all. He's 12. Probably time to let him reap what he sows. I take it he's used to making good grades without a lot o effort. Maybe now is the time to let him see how that's working out.

I know an 82 is a respectable grade but the way it happened is just maddening to me. The kid has 100 average in all tests and quizzes he lost 18 points because of this... 18... just looking at the number makes me want to cry. You are right, he needs to learn that we all reap what we sow... but it's so hard to stand back and watch.

Sorry but I still disagree. If he wants to go into engineering or a science he probably wants to take advanced math in High school and in our district the only way you can get all the advanced math courses in is do good in middle school so you get put into the accelerated path.

Sometimes there isn't time for everything and you do prioritize. Even in school.

This is true. My kid can do whatever he wants to do but if he chooses something that requires discipline he can't just wake up one day and be prepared. That foundation must be built from the ground up. It's one thing if he decides to reject formal education as an adult and quite another thing if the doors are slammed on him because he couldn't be bothered. Every step of the way is important.

A 12 year old's workload in school should not come down to prioritizing one subject over the other. At this point, they're still learning time management skills, and no 12 year old is getting so much work that they have to pick one assignment over the other. They should be learning how to make time for it all.

My brother is 12 and I'm a senior in HS taking 4 AP classes, so I do know and understand the need to prioritize. But not in 7th (I'm assuming) grade.

This is not what is happening, although it would make him more responsible if it was the case. I wish i could tell myself he is overworked but he's not, I don't quite know what he is.

 

[bethbuchall]

I know an 82 is a respectable grade but the way it happened is just maddening to me. The kid has 100 average in all tests and quizzes he lost 28 points because of this... 28... just looking at the number makes me want to cry. You are right, he needs to learn that we all reap what we sow... but it's so hard to stand back and watch.

If it makes you feel any better, it's only 18 points. Probably not, though, huh? I understand what you are saying, and maybe this will show him the value of getting the homework done and turned in. (And, yes, it's extremely difficult to stand back and watch our kids mess up, but sometimes they need to do just that.)

 

[Luv Bunnies]

My 12 year old son just started middle school this year. His grades are good, (4 As and 2 Bs), but he could easily be getting straight As if he just turned in every assignment. A few times, he did the wrong problems in math. When I asked him why, he said he couldn't see the assignment on the board because "Sierra's big head was in the way." I asked if he considered leaning to one side or actually walking to the board and he said no. Other times, he said he didn't have time to write down the assignment without being late for the next class. That one doesn't fly because the same 30 kids travel to all of their academic classes together. I asked him if he considered asking someone about the assignment during the next class. He said no. I asked if he ever considered popping into the room when lunch started to make sure he had the assignment down correctly. He said no. Then he told me how brilliant I must be to think of all these things. I just said, "Dude! It's not brain surgery! Just give it a little more effort next time!" Then he told me I should have been a brain surgeon! Personally, I think most 12 year olds are temporarily brain dead. I'm hoping it improves sometime soon!

 

[sbell111]

Please heaven help me speak in language these kids can understand

Have you tried Spanish?

 

[LuvOrlando]

Sorry, but if my kid had to skip two "easy peasy" homework assignments in order to make more time to study for math, then he would need some help in better organizing his time.

There are just no excuses for not turning homework in. I'm with the OP, obviously the kid knows the subject well, so if he has to work an extra 15 minutes to complete the Spanish homework, then that's what he has to do. I can accept if a child does his/her best and works hard and gets whatever grade, but to purposely just skip homework because he needs the time to study for another class...just means he needs to spend more time working on homework. There is no excuse for him not to be getting an A in a class like that. Better he learn that lesson NOW rather than when he is in high school

You got it, he does have the time, he just made bad decisions about it. I can't quite register why he did it. He's not a defiant kid, he never did this before and he has straight 100's so it's not like he was avoiding work. I can't really figure out what was going through his head to be honest. When we first brought it up he got really upset, like he had no idea this was a bad idea. How can that even be possible?

I had something close to a no homework policy, but FWIW, my school essentially encouraged it. I took a full course load, and thus should have had something close to four or five hours of homework per night. But, homework never counted for more than 10% or so of the grade. And since grades were not weighted, I could bust my chops in an attempt for perfect marks at honors English, and hope that I was doing better than someone who chose to take basic English instead, since it was much easier.

When homework was actually required, I did it. But a lot of what was assigned was busywork - and, busywork that had to be done a certain way. If the teacher(s) did not like the solution to a problem (even if it was a correct solution and answer, but not the method they taught, nor one required by the assignment), then it scored the same as having done it. (Eg, one English assignment was to write a poem. I wrote, IIRC, a sonnet - but the teacher was looking for some other type of verse, even though it was not indicated on the assignment, nor mentioned in class.)

I wonder if this might be part of the problem. My son has never really brought home much homework. I think most of his experience with homework was that it is something other kids brought home when they couldn't finish stuff in class. He always finished so he hasn't really had homework since 3rd grade. I wonder if he just genuinely didn't get that it was a necessary part of school and part of the grade... oh boy, I didn't think of that until now. I'm going to talk with him about this later

 

[LuvOrlando]

DS13 is in 7th grade and right now all his grades in EVERY subject are critical as he is getting ready for track placement in HS and possible scholarship opportunities (if he chooses private HS). His general GPA is very important now and will be looked at very closely as well as his standardized test scores. I would not be too happy if he ignored easy peasy homework. Every day we are working on time management skills because of all the time his sports, especially football, takes up.

I agree. Where my son is now and how he is handling himself is very important. I don't want to make the kid nervous about his grades because, all things considered, he is an excellent student. Still, little foolish avoidable mistakes like this will have the potential to do some pretty significant damage to him when he gets older.

Did you look at him and tell him "good try?" My DS16 tried that at that age also. We would pull our hair out. The best thing was grades posted on the internet. since he knew we were looking everynight and he had things taken away ie cell phone, tv, truck for not doing his easy peasy homework, his grades and homework assignments both came up. He still gets lazy every now and then but he knows what will happen for not doing his work.

LOL, I didn't but maybe I should. I suppose I should follow your lead and check his requirements every night, maybe after a while he'll do it on his own if he realizes I'm looking?

Sounds like my 15 year old. Nothing but 100%'s in English, except for one zero for a missed homework that he simply "forgot"... He now has an 85%. I continue to tell him that it's not his ability that is the problem, it's his responsibility. Ticks me off. But I can't do anything more than what I'm doing.

It's awful isn't it?

How about this "A ZERO is unacceptable". That is the rule in our house, if DD (14) was to ever just not do an assignment then there would be consequences. This has been our rule since she was little and she has always followed it. At this point I think she would feel almost embarrassed by not having an assignment.

That is the rule in our home. He never did this before so I have no idea what to make of it.

Problem is, you have a girl. I have 2 boys and 1 girl. Boys are different, my Dr calls it boy brain. She has 6 boys all in college or older.

OP, My son has the same problem he is 13 and in pre AP classes. He sometimes just forgets to do homework or turn it in. Consequences don't matter to a boy with boy brain. It works for a little while but then boy brain comes back again.

I asked my pediatrician about this, she laughed and told me you know how all babies start out as XX and to become a boy it becomes XY, well the part that falls off to become the Y is their brain, and not to worry, it grows back eventually. Like I said she has 6. Almost everyone I have talked to, especially ones that are smart, seem to have this problem. It is like their brain just isn't in gear yet.

In general my son's memory is ridiculously precise to the point where he could probably do TV worthy tricks. I don't think this is the case for him... unless puberty is short circuiting his brain.

It sounds like he needs a little help with time management. Look at the bright side here: He skipped homework for one class in which he knew he was doing very well to STUDY more for another class that he was not as confident about and typically does have more academic value. That's still fairly good reasoning. And other folks are right, these grades are not going to matter very long. He has some time to tweak his decision making process and learn how to manage all of his assignments before he gets to high school where his grades will truly affect his future.

You are right, his reasoning isn't completely flawed so I need to make sure he understands that part of it when we talk again.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Not all grades would be squat if the OP's school does this like with my dd12. She is in 7th grade, takes French 1, if she gets a C or lower, she has to repeat it next year. The reason why? Foreign languages and Algebra 1 in middle school will go towards high school. So she passes French 1 and she will take French 2 and then have to pass that in order to get 1 full credit for high school.

And our state is thinking of adding more credits for the standard diploma. it isn't so easy anymore to say grades don't matter.

Whoever thought of the online grading thing rocks!!!!!!!!! It started last year for us when DD was in 6th grade. As for missing homework. Our school has detention for 2 or more missing assignments.

I'm not sure how this is all going to play out in HS. My son is already in an accelerated Math program but I don't think they do that with any of the other subjects

I feel for you, but I don't have kids so I can't really empathize. I will say, though, I'm sure I was a nightmare at your son's age.

I don't believe I did math homework from 6th grade all the way through high school. Math was incredibly easy for me, homework was pointless. If, on the off chance I had trouble with a concept, I worked through some problems on my own in class, but once I had it, I had it. I didn't need the repetition to help me learn it.

This caused MAJOR problems for me in 6th grade. My teacher gave me detentions, had my mom in for conferences and finally told me that she couldn't put me in pre-algebra in 7th grade, because I wouldn't be able to keep up if I didn't have good homework skills. So, I didn't take pre-algebra until 8th grade. Guess what? Never did homework, test average was over 100%.

In high school, my math teachers for Algebra I, II, Geometry and Calculus all seemed to glance over the fact that I didn't do any math homework. Every class had an average of between 99 and 103. If they called on me to go do a homework problem on the blackboard, I didn't have a problem. In Geometry, my sophomore year, lots of students seemed to have trouble grasping concepts, so while the teacher would be going over homework problems, I would be going from desk to desk for those that still weren't understanding it.

Only class I got burned? Trigonometry. This teacher did very thorough notebook checks, and he didn't give an inch. Only ended up with a B or C in that class, and it was all from my lack of completed homework in the notebook.

I'm not condoning that behavior, but I know I must have given my parents ulcers. Lot's of conflict over homework when I was young.

To be honest, I was the same sort of kid as you describe and I know the pitfalls so I am trying to steer my kids around the bumps. I know at some point my children are going to hit a wall where just being in the room isn't enough to excel. On one hand it's an asset to be able to intuitively understand topics which demand higher ordered thinking, but there is a definite downside to it too and that downside is the fact that kids like this never learn proper study skills and they never learn patience. In this respect kids who need to work at things have an enormous advantage because they have disciplined minds. I want my children to have disciplined minds

What kind of consequences would you give?

I believe in natural consequences. You don't do your homework, or you forget. You get a zero. Your grade is lowered. That is your consequence.

My DS does not enjoy getting mediocre grades. It does upset him. He'll learn eventually! (at least I hope so!). Taking away his iPod or his cell phone is not going to make his memory return. Believe me, we've tried it!

In my house the current consequence is that we took away his X-Box 360 until he gets his grade pulled up to a 90. I don't know how he'll do it but I know he has 2 weeks to figure it out before report cards are done. Even so I think the biggest punishment for my son is the fact my husband and I are so disappointed in him. He definitely does not like how we feel about it.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Apparently then I am raising 3 girls even though by all appearances two are male. I agree that there are differences, but responsibility to complete homework is not one of them.

Agreed. I have a 12 year old son and an 11 year old daughter and expect the same from both of them.

A responsibility is a responsibility.. PERIOD. And at this age, school is really the only responsibility they have. If for some reason, they are having issues managing it all, then they should ask for help. Talk to either a teacher or parent. They can't just arbitrarily decide to do one assignment over another LOL! They need to learn how to solve the problem , not just avoid it. And NO, in my book, choosing NOT to do something, is not solving the problem. (Though I have to hand it to him for creative reasoning )

Ive got a 12 yr old boy, I sympathize with boy brain..it makes me crazy. I can't tell you how many times he actually gets assignments done early and then forgets to take them with him to school. Or leaves his book at school or some other absent minded thing!

Agreed, my son has no other job to do than do well in school. The more I think about it and read through comment the more I think it might be a work ethic problem.

Guess I got lucky. I had listened to lots of other parents complain about this issue and warned my son about skipping homework. He does have lots of work but knows that even if it only takes 10 minutes...every piece of homework must be turned in. He's figured out that most teachers do not grade homework so he doesn't give it his full effort sometimes. He still gets full credit for completing it.

The other night he came to me for help. He was supposed to read and summarize something. I told him to do it himself but he returned saying he didn't understand it. So, I asked to see the reading. It was a very difficcult excerpt from Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. My son can read really well but this was his first foray into really ancient, complicated, sophisticated writing. He really wanted to 'get it' because it was Frankenstein but it was just too tough. I read it to him. I happen to be a very good reader and have a bit of theatrics in me as well. He answered all his questions, did his summary and all was well. Last night, he read the next excerpt himself. Sometimes a parent is needed.

I don't know of anyone else who has had this problem, you are lucky to have been warned ahead of time. I would love it if my son asked for help but these days he insists on waiting for Daddy to come home and work with him instead of me. My boy has totally turned a corner and I hope working with my husband more will have a good effect. In all seriousness my husband is the most disciplined logical thinker I have ever met... i hope it rubs off on the kid

12 - male - dopey decision?

I think you answered your OWN question.

Maybe a 12 year old kid's bad decision isn't exactly a surprise but that doesn't mean I'm going to let it slide. Not in this house

 

[LuvOrlando]

Something occurred to me as I wrote all this and I'm going to put it out there. Let me ask, do you all think that maybe the fact I had surgery for what they thought was cancer on 8/31 and was a mess for most of the month of September during recovery might have been disruptive enough to cause trouble like this in school? I'm asking because it's in the back of my mind. I don't want to give my kid a ready made excuse but, then again, what if he really was genuinely upset? This really is so out of character.

 

[Longsx3]

What kind of consequences would you give?

I believe in natural consequences. You don't do your homework, or you forget. You get a zero. Your grade is lowered. That is your consequence.

My DS does not enjoy getting mediocre grades. It does upset him. He'll learn eventually! (at least I hope so!). Taking away his iPod or his cell phone is not going to make his memory return. Believe me, we've tried it!

If your son truly "forgets" a HW assignment then your right the natural consequence should be enough however in my experience it is not as much about forgetting as it is about just not wanting to do to take the time to do the assignment. My DD is required to write her assignments down in her planner so that she can't "forget". I would surmise if she did "forget" her HW assignment, that it would be because she chose to watch TV, Fb her friends or text therefore she would lose which ever is the culprit.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Have you tried Spanish?

That's actually pretty funny

If your son truly "forgets" a HW assignment then your right the natural consequence should be enough however in my experience it is not as much about forgetting as it is about just not wanting to do to take the time to do the assignment. My DD is required to write her assignments down in her planner so that she can't "forget". I would surmise if she did "forget" her HW assignment, that it would be because she chose to watch TV, Fb her friends or text therefore she would lose which ever is the culprit.

I agree, this is why DH confiscated the power cord to the X-Box until further notice. The boy does have a planner, the school district actually provides them to help the kids with time management. My son said he 'forgot' to write it in the planner too

 

[arminnie]

I really don't understand the concept of counting homework towards the final grade unless it is something like an essay or a project.

I think the purpose of school is to learn a subject. If you can learn it without doing the stupid repetitive stuff more power to the student.

I was a math major - I never did homework and I rarely went to class unless we were having a test. I was the top math major at a major private university.

When I got my MBA at the top business school I had a cost accounting class where the professor required us to put a note on his desk if we had not done our homework. I put that note there every single day.

Most of our grades were pass/fail, but if you really excelled you could get an H (for honors). They Hs were limited to 2 or 3 out of a class of 60. I easily made an H.

I wish today's teachers would get over the idea that homework should count towards a grade.

 

[palavra]

Sorry but I still disagree. If he wants to go into engineering or a science he probably wants to take advanced math in High school and in our district the only way you can get all the advanced math courses in is do good in middle school so you get put into the accelerated path.

Sometimes there isn't time for everything and you do prioritize. Even in school.

You do realize that many jobs today require a basic knowledge of Spanish, right? My sister, a doctor, still laments that she didn't spend more time on her Spanish classes because she frequently comes in contact with people who speak very little English in the hospital where she works.

Also, understanding another language looks great on a resume. Lots of jobs want people who are bilingual today.

 

[MoniqueU]

Here is some hope for you. My son would blow off homework, struggled and had to take spanish and chemistry in summer school. He tests well though. He scored a 1820 on the Sat's and was just accepted at ASU and has more schools to hear from and to apply to. We get recruitment stuff from tulane at least once or twice a week. There is hope!