I think FW may be losing me

[Kagoguen]

My family and I have only been to the Fort once, Halloween of 2009, we stayed 10 nights in the 400 loop, part of a Grand Gathering with other Dis members, we had a great time. We're a family of 5, plus my son and his girlfriend, came with us. I added things up staying at a vaule resort vs the Fort and for us we saved about $1000 as we could make our meals in the camper, We definately saved money by staying at the Fort. We 'll be going again this year same time can't wait!!!

 

[mikeymouse1]

At the Fort I can cook what I want when I want and my bar is always open! Ya cant do that at the other resorts.

 

[Born 2 Fish]

At the Fort I can cook what I want when I want and my bar is always open! Ya cant do that at the other resorts.

Like your way a think'n,

specially the bar is always open part,

 

[John VN]

Many have mentioned that staying at FW is like being home. DW and I have a different take on that. For us it is more than like being home or we would just stay home.

There is a sense of extreme calm that overwhelms us as we drive past the STOP sign following the Check-In Plaza. After parking and setting up I walk into the MH and give DW a . We then sit down and consider our next move. It could be to just turn on the TV and do nothing or let our feet and then a bus or two sweep us off to some other magical place.

FW losing us? We will remove things from our budget to make room for FW. As I mentioned, it is more than being home.

It is Disney. It is Magical. It is youth, again.

 

[rapriebe]

We are starting to rethink alot of our plans for staying at FW. The cost is just getting too expensive if we can't get a discount. We are staying for eight weeks this winter and when I total up the entire FW costs, it is just getting too expensive. Unfortunately our TA could not get us a discount for this trip so that didn't help. We had a 3 week trip booked for May, with a AAA discount, and we decided to cancel the FW portion and stay off-site. Our total camping fees dropped from $1600 (with discount) to $350. Now I realize it will be different than FW but hey, it doesn't hurt to try something different once in awhile.

We still have our fall 2011 trip booked and will keep this reservation since we have the AAA discount which did save us quite abit. But after that, we have some hard decisions on whether to get another AP or to just start doing something different in the winter.

 

[phalynx]

To me, its like comparing the price of gas going from $2.00 a gallon to $2.50 a gallon and saying you won't go on vacation because of the cost. When you factor in the price of the vehicle, the insurance, and your time, the cost of .50 a gallon is a couple of %.

The same is true with FW pricing.. When you look at the total cost of going to Disney (which I don't like that it is expensive but I still go), a price difference of even $20 per day is so small compared to the overall cost. Especially when you can eat just 1 meal a day in your camper, you'll more than make up for it in $$ with a family.

 

[Disney John]

In the past, you never heard anyone talking about leaving the fort for a hotel. Now you hear several people mulling it over. Current prices are rediculously high if you ask me. The fact that this discussion even exists is proof enough of that.

The best way I can say it is that the Fort has "partially" lost me. By saying that I mean that I will definately not be spending 5 weeks a year there anymore. (we have done that for almost 10 years). After 2 very bad experiences recently at the fort, we have decided to take a couple of years off.

Hopefully they can get their act together, concerning security and pricing during that time.

 

[cavecricket]

I am in the same boat!

I finally decided that I would rather stay at FW due to the location, atmosphere and all of my memories.

The values just dont cut it for me :-(

 

[OK GRUMPY]

The other resorts don't cut it for me either. Recently I kept going to the Fort just not go to the parks or just go for a day since I have been going 2 to 3 times a year for the past 20. I just see my trips getting less and less a year. . But when I go The Fort will be my choice.

 

[CCIntrigue]

To me, its like comparing the price of gas going from $2.00 a gallon to $2.50 a gallon and saying you won't go on vacation because of the cost. When you factor in the price of the vehicle, the insurance, and your time, the cost of .50 a gallon is a couple of %.

The same is true with FW pricing.. When you look at the total cost of going to Disney (which I don't like that it is expensive but I still go), a price difference of even $20 per day is so small compared to the overall cost. Especially when you can eat just 1 meal a day in your camper, you'll more than make up for it in $$ with a family.

Well said! I don't dare figure up what the moho costs me per day just sitting in my driveway. A few hundred dollars per trip is surely inconsequential!

 

[garettdoyle]

Let me add some perspective to this discussion.

FW rates give you a good idea just how much it costs per night for WDW to keep the "magic" alive for guests staying on property. As pointed out, the cost per night for FW vs. a value resort is not much. Although renting a piece of blacktop for camper or set up a tent seems much different than a hotel room, it is operating cost not the physical building that drives the nightly rate. Buildings are for the most part one-time costs. Operating costs like employees, transportation (boats, monorails, buses), utilities (water, sewer, electricity), recreation (pools, movie nights, etc) are what drive the costs at FW. Physical buildings are one time costs that can be spread out over 30 years. Most of your rate per night at Pop Century is for operating costs, not the cheap buildings.

In order to reduce the FW rates, what services could be reduced? Utilities and transportation are pretty much a requirement. That leaves employees and recreation. I am guessing both of these are reasons why you choose FW versus off site campgrounds. So the only other area would be for WDW profits. How much does Disney make per night? I looked at Disney's earning statement and their average gross margin is around 15%. Over the past 10 years it has been as high as 25% and low as 5%. The best WDW could do is reduce all FW rates by 15% before they were losing money. Would that make enough difference for you to reconsider FW? If WDW did reduce rates by 15%, eventually the Disney stock holders would stop investing into WDW. No businesses invests in to products that don't make money.

Why did I bother to write all of this? I am hoping to provide some perspective for people saying something is "expensive" or not worth it. All those "Disney touches" are not free. Transportation is not free. FW does not show free movies around the campfire. All of this just happens to be included in your nightly rate. If you are not utlizing all "free" services, then you are wasting money stating at FW.

As a consumer, we certainly vote with our dollars. If FW is not worth it to you, stay somewhere else. WDW is expensive. No getting around it. The question you should ask is, was it worth it? Was it a good value? $2.50 for a bottle of water at the MK is expensive compared to $2.99 for a 24 pack at Walmart. However, $85 for a MK entry ticket to see Wishes is cheap compared to the $25,000 it would cost for me to do a private fireworks display at home.

 

[retired and happy]

garretdoyle

I think you are way off in your cost comparisons. A building must be maintained. Guests must be serviced. Food must be prepared and served. Utilities must serve the rooms and the support facilities. There are a lot of ongoing expenses with the resorts, and those are likely to be a lot higher than the cost of a utility pole at each site. Costs for running the Fort MUST be MUCH lower than running any level of "hotel" resort.

 

[Born 2 Fish]

garettdoyle,, you absolutley point out some very interesting facts. I can say that I agree with much of what you had to say about the expense of goods and services etc. for most of Disney's properties ,,,
but I gotta side with retired and happy on this one,,
running cost must be much lower than the other reosorts, there isn't NEARLY the amount of services or people or utilities, etc at the Fort (per capita,so to speak) as at a reort hotel property.

 

[2goofycampers]

It's Chip and Dale's fault. Have you seen the price of nuts lately.

 

[mnsprk]

running cost must be much lower than the other reosorts, there isn't NEARLY the amount of services or people or utilities, etc at the Fort (per capita,so to speak) as at a reort hotel property.

Unfortunately that isn't always true. The cost to maintain miles of underground utillies is higher than having them all in one building. You have 750 + (rooms) sites spread over 100 +/- acres instead of stacked on top of one another.

They just spent 12+ hours (they started at 8 and finished around 8) repairing the pavement at 300/500 because of the water main break. They are currently resurfacing/repairing the road leading over to the cabins as well. IIRC the cost of asphalt is now at or over $150 cu/yd.

Items like that along with the routine maintenance probabaly puts the combined costs just as high as a Resort building.

 

[LarryJ]

garretdoyle

I think you are way off in your cost comparisons. A building must be maintained. Guests must be serviced. Food must be prepared and served. Utilities must serve the rooms and the support facilities. There are a lot of ongoing expenses with the resorts, and those are likely to be a lot higher than the cost of a utility pole at each site. Costs for running the Fort MUST be MUCH lower than running any level of "hotel" resort.

I'm not so sure maintaining FW is so much different cost wise than a resort building. You have both the outpost, meadows, settlement buildings, plus all the comfort stations with their ice machines and laundry facilities, the several hundred cabins, two pools, etc. which are all spread out over several hundred acres. This doesn't even include services like the Golf Carts, Water Sprites, horse back riding, bike barn, etc. I would guess the landscaping costs for FW is much higher than most resorts Servicing the cabins have to be much more expensive in that everything has to be moved from cabin to cabin instead of a cart servicing a normal resort room and the resort rooms don't have the kitchen/cooking facilities found in the cabins. Then as already mentioned you have all the roads, underground utilities and even each site has to be serviced when vacated. They also send around a cart two or three times a day to collect the trash and recyclables each day and have to have someone go to each site to drop off the check out stuff in a vehicle. I would almost bet that the profit margin for the cost center for FW might even be higher to show might even be higher than other resorts to remain a cost effective resort in the overall scheme of WDW.

Larry

 

[acenorm]

Also, I'm sure it isn't cheap to run all the lights and decorations that people bring to decorate their sites during the holidays. I know at my house alone I pay an extra $100 for the month of December because of my Christmas lights, and that is for 6 hours a night. I'm thinking FW is probably the same if not possibly more than some of the resorts.

Best Regards,
Norm

 

[YodaGirl]

garretdoyle

I think you are way off in your cost comparisons. A building must be maintained. Guests must be serviced. Food must be prepared and served. Utilities must serve the rooms and the support facilities. There are a lot of ongoing expenses with the resorts, and those are likely to be a lot higher than the cost of a utility pole at each site. Costs for running the Fort MUST be MUCH lower than running any level of "hotel" resort.

ITA!

Also, I'm sure it isn't cheap to run all the lights and decorations that people bring to decorate their sites during the holidays. I know at my house alone I pay an extra $100 for the month of December because of my Christmas lights, and that is for 6 hours a night. I'm thinking FW is probably the same if not possibly more than some of the resorts.

Best Regards,
Norm

I think that they more than recoup their money with the extra amount that they charge around the holidays. Keep in mind that everyone pays the extra costs. It doesn't matter whether they decorate, or not.

If you do the math on your utility bill, you're only paying an extra $4 a day if your lights are on from Dec 1 - Dec 25. I'm sure Disney is getting plenty of money during peak/holiday season to cover that per campsite.

 

[acenorm]

ITA!



I think that they more than recoup their money with the extra amount that they charge around the holidays. Keep in mind that everyone pays the extra costs. It doesn't matter whether they decorate, or not.

If you do the math on your utility bill, you're only paying an extra $4 a day if your lights are on from Dec 1 - Dec 25. I'm sure Disney is getting plenty of money during peak/holiday season to cover that per campsite.

I'm sure they do, but it was for the arguments sake for the higher rates and that it costs just as much to run FW as it does one of the hotels.

Best Regards,
Norm

 

[JCJRSmith]

I don't believe what WE think the costs are even enters into it. Disney knows exactly what it costs them to operate the Fort, and they set the prices based on their own projections of what the market will bear. As a corporation that is publicly traded, they have a responsibilty to the share holders to maximize the profitablity of the product. I have no doubt that if the corporation believed that they could keep the place going and profitable after an increase of oh, say, 10%, they would do it in a country microsecond.

And remember, folks, there is no company on this planet which is quite as adept at separating you from your cash than the Disney Corporation.