Is this just how recent cars are or just my car

[Skippy918]

All the dash lights were on and you drove away, or all the dash lights came on while you were driving?

They came on when I started the car. They went away after shutting the car off for a few mins and then restarting it. Another time it cleared up after driving for a minute.

 

[sam_gordon]

They came on when I started the car. They went away after shutting the car off for a few mins and then restarting it. Another time it cleared up after driving for a minute.

So you drove (the first time) with all the warning lights on?

 

[Jackiethemermaid]

I have a 2019 Volkswagon Atlas. Generally speaking, I like my car. But one thing in particular frustrates me to no end. When something goes wrong, it just suddenly goes wrong with little to no warning. Today I was driving down the road and my car is suddenly losing power. I look down and the EPC light is on, meaning something is wrong with the electrical system. (And it wasn't on the minute before.) I could barely get it over to the side of the busy 5 lane road I was on. And last year, I was on a road trip and had driven 200 miles with no indication anything was wrong. I was on a highway that went through small, one light towns. I had to stop at a red light. My car has that stop-start feature to prevents idling/wasting gas/helps with pollution. So at the red light the engine stopped (like it is programmed to). When it went to start, all the dash lights start flashing and the car wouldn't start. Long story short, it was simply the battery. No sluggish starts like I have had with cars past to indicate a coming problem. Just-WHAM!-big sudden problem. I had to get help to push my car out of the highway lane, which could have been super dangerous.

So my question is this: is this just how the somewhat newer/newer cars are or is this something specific to my car? I find it so frustrating and nerve wracking!

this is also typical VW problems (not knocking it i love my vws), id keep an eye out on your alternator. 20 years of going to vw events, most of the cars have christmas tree looking dashboards

 

[tvguy]

I hate the stop start thing. It really doesn't do much except add to the work of the battery and wear out the starter.

Post Office delivery trucks have had it since they went into service in 1986 and it apparently doesn't make much difference on the life of the starter or battery, but saves a lot of gasoline. And they probably start and stop a whole lot more than your car does.
Our hybrid, of course does start/stop of course. But they don't use the starter or the 12 volt battery, they use the generator and the propulsion battery. I rented a Ford Escape with start and stop and it was a little unnerving, but there was a button on the dash to turn it off.

 

[goofyernmost]

Although my car doesn't have the stop/start thing, I've driven in a number of rentals that do. I haven't had the AC stop on me. And I can't imagine the interior of the car heats up that quick in only two minutes.

Even before cars started the auto off/on thing, there were people advocating that turning your car off at a light and turning it back on when it was time to do was better for gas mileage.

The only way that an AC can work is if the compressor is running. The only way a compressor is running is if the engine is running. Maybe you have short stops where you live but where I live, it isn't uncommon for up to 5 minutes in very busy intersections. If it's 90 degrees with 90% humidity, before you can move what you are getting from the vents is very warm air. So instead of maintaining a steady temperature the AC has to run longer to reestablish that temperature. If you have a situation were you are driving in a city and you get the "red light sequence" at every stop you might be starting the car, repeatedly. You might be saving a thimble full of gas but are making it up the desired temp. means that you engine is working harder as the compressor runs, you are wearing the bearings and electrical components within the starter motor. Got any idea how much it will cost to replace that starter on todays cars?

In my opinion the whole start/stop system is just the way that the auto companies are trying to make you think you are saving money and gas by using it. Sort of a PR thing that gives the consumer the feeling like they are actually doing something for the environment when they are not and in the long haul you are going to spend more money on possible repairs.

 

[sam_gordon]

The only way that an AC can work is if the compressor is running. The only way a compressor is running is if the engine is running. Maybe you have short stops where you live but where I live, it isn't uncommon for up to 5 minutes in very busy intersections. If it's 90 degrees with 90% humidity, before you can move what you are getting from the vents is very warm air. So instead of maintaining a steady temperature the AC has to run longer to reestablish that temperature. If you have a situation were you are driving in a city and you get the "red light sequence" at every stop you might be starting the car, repeatedly. You might be saving a thimble full of gas but are making it up the desired temp. means that you engine is working harder as the compressor runs, you are wearing the bearings and electrical components within the starter motor. Got any idea how much it will cost to replace that starter on todays cars?

In my opinion the whole start/stop system is just the way that the auto companies are trying to make you think you are saving money and gas by using it. Sort of a PR thing that gives the consumer the feeling like they are actually doing something for the environment when they are not and in the long haul you are going to spend more money on possible repairs.

Have I been at busy intersections for five minutes? Sure. Have I been STOPPED for five minutes, not creeping up a car length or two at least (requiring the motor to run)? No.

And note, I did not say that *I* believe you save a lot of gas with the start/stop, just that people were advocating for it.

The start/stop feature I really don't care about. I wouldn't think it would be hard (if important) to avoid buying a car that doesn't have that feature (or that it can be disabled) if you really don't want it.

 

[tvguy]

The only way that an AC can work is if the compressor is running. The only way a compressor is running is if the engine is running. Maybe you have short stops where you live but where I live, it isn't uncommon for up to 5 minutes in very busy intersections. If it's 90 degrees with 90% humidity, before you can move what you are getting from the vents is very warm air. So instead of maintaining a steady temperature the AC has to run longer to reestablish that temperature. If you have a situation were you are driving in a city and you get the "red light sequence" at every stop you might be starting the car, repeatedly. You might be saving a thimble full of gas but are making it up the desired temp. means that you engine is working harder as the compressor runs, you are wearing the bearings and electrical components within the starter motor. Got any idea how much it will cost to replace that starter on todays cars?

In my opinion the whole start/stop system is just the way that the auto companies are trying to make you think you are saving money and gas by using it. Sort of a PR thing that gives the consumer the feeling like they are actually doing something for the environment when they are not and in the long haul you are going to spend more money on possible repairs.

Some cars now have electronic ac compressors so the engine does not need to be running for the compressor to work. Electronic power steering pumps are also common now.

 

[goofyernmost]

Have I been at busy intersections for five minutes? Sure. Have I been STOPPED for five minutes, not creeping up a car length or two at least (requiring the motor to run)? No.

And note, I did not say that *I* believe you save a lot of gas with the start/stop, just that people were advocating for it.

The start/stop feature I really don't care about. I wouldn't think it would be hard (if important) to avoid buying a car that doesn't have that feature (or that it can be disabled) if you really don't want it.

It cannot be permanently disabled because it is set up automatically default. My car does have a simple bypass with a button right next to the shifting lever. It's a simple push button that I use every single time that I start the car. And if it malfunctions it will also default to disable itself until the problem is resolved. To me it is a useless function and just another thing to create the need for expensive service repairs when it fails.

 

[goofyernmost]

Some cars now have electronic ac compressors so the engine does not need to be running for the compressor to work. Electronic power steering pumps are also common now.

I haven't seen that or even heard of it but if it exists it still needs the use of the engine to recharge that battery. There is a catch to everything, however, I have yet to see or hear about an electronic ac outside of home AC's. I would personally not think of that as a selling point. The energy needed to run anything electrical is never considered by most people. It's a lot like and electric car not having a carbon footprint. It does have a major one in the form of many coal burning generating facilities needed to charge it back up. Nothing is ever free of some cost, it is just more like a hidden cost. If we don't see it, it's not there syndrome.

 

[DeeBee3]

I only know things through my spouse but there are car coders you can buy online or in the auto parts store. If it's a major common thing, it will spit a code you can look up and find out what is wrong.

Also agree with clicking the button for the stop/start thing. Just have to do it each time.

Also see what the dealer says - my 2014 Forester was having transmission problems (the lights were coming on and it was driving funny). I thought we were getting a new car because it wasn't worth it to replace the $900+ part. Turns out it was a defect that was covered by Subaru and my car has 150,000 miles on it! I was shocked, but now my car drives like a dream again.

 

[sam_gordon]

It cannot be permanently disabled because it is set up automatically default. My car does have a simple bypass with a button right next to the shifting lever. It's a simple push button that I use every single time that I start the car. And if it malfunctions it will also default to disable itself until the problem is resolved. To me it is a useless function and just another thing to create the need for expensive service repairs when it fails.

So then it comes down to not purchasing a car that has that.

 

[TiggerTrigger]

To the original OPs questions... Late to the conversation, but I HAD a 2019 VW Atlas. Is your VIN part of the massive faulty wiring harness recall and could your issues be tied to that? I know for certain that mine was under the recall. I was in the process of getting VW to lemon mine and buy it back for unrelated unfixable issues when this all started to come up, but I remember finding my VIN under the recall and it was a huge issue that left tons of people driving unsafe vehicles because VW had no fix for many many months ... and due to Covid, no loaner cars to put people in safe vehicles. I also remember that there were a number of things from loss of power to random braking that could occur with this critical issue. There's currently a class action lawsuit surrounding this. I got my notification in the mail on Friday. I don't qualify because my buyback process also included a pretty broad indemnification clause.

 

[kdonnel]

The start/stop feature I really don't care about. I wouldn't think it would be hard (if important) to avoid buying a car that doesn't have that feature (or that it can be disabled) if you really don't want it.

If car manufacturers have any hope to meet future EPA mileage requirements they will incorporate any and all fuel saving techniques. I don't think you will be able to buy a new car in 2025 that does not have a stop/start feature enabled by default. In order to be able to count the benefits towards their EPA target I think the feature has to be enabled in a way that requires the user to turn it off each time they use the car. There is not a global setting to turn it off and forget about it.

As for it getting warm at stop lights, my only experience with cars with stop/start are rentals, typically in the summer months in Florida or Las Vegas. That 2-3 minutes at a stop light are enough for the interior to become uncomfortable. One of things I do in a rental now is figure out how to turn off auto stop/start and then quickly get in the habit of turning it off each time I get in the car.

 

[hertamaniac]

I retired from the battery industry after working on hybrids and start-stop technologies in their infancy.

The starters are designed to last many more cycles utilizing the S/S function. Further the battery not only measures SOC% so it is activated, but also SOH (state of health) so that it will disable the S/S function. This has been an indicator that the battery is due for an OEM replacement. There are non-OEM batteries that may not meet the capacity requirements to maximize the S/S function.

In my car, I can customize some of my settings with an "individual" button. I choose steering rate, suspension settings, dash color and S/S function. I disable the S/S function out of a conservative nature of cycling regardless of the claimed over-designed factor.

 

[kdonnel]

I haven't seen that or even heard of it but if it exists it still needs the use of the engine to recharge that battery. There is a catch to everything, however, I have yet to see or hear about an electronic ac outside of home AC's. I would personally not think of that as a selling point. The energy needed to run anything electrical is never considered by most people. It's a lot like and electric car not having a carbon footprint. It does have a major one in the form of many coal burning generating facilities needed to charge it back up. Nothing is ever free of some cost, it is just more like a hidden cost. If we don't see it, it's not there syndrome.

Electric compressors and heat pumps in cars are great selling features.

During the summer, if I am out running errands with something that needs to remain cool/cold I can leave the climate system on while in another store. The same goes for the winter if I need/prefer the cabin remain warm.

Both options also open up the ability to precondition the cabin while your car is in an enclosed garage. In the winter I can either have a program that knows my typical departure times and wams the interior of my car to a desired temperature even though the car is enclosed in a garage or turn on the climate control on demand using an app on my phone.

As for the cost of energy, one should also look at efficiency. An internal combustion engine is not all that efficient at turning gasoline into motion/power for accessories. Somewhere in the 20-40% efficiency range. So 60-80% of the stored energy in a gallon of gas goes to waste.

Electric motors used by EVs are generally 85-90% efficient.

Couple that increased efficiency with centralized electric production which is much cleaner than millions of tailpipe emissions and the carbon footprint of an EV is much more attractive.

 

[jimmymc]

A similar thing happened when my car battery died. I parked it one day with zero warning lights. Then when I tried to start it the next day, it couldn't even get into accessory mode and was sitting at 4.5 V.

 

[jimmymc]

Electric compressors and heat pumps in cars are great selling features.

During the summer, if I am out running errands with something that needs to remain cool/cold I can leave the climate system on while in another store. The same goes for the winter if I need/prefer the cabin remain warm.

Both options also open up the ability to precondition the cabin while your car is in an enclosed garage. In the winter I can either have a program that knows my typical departure times and wams the interior of my car to a desired temperature even though the car is enclosed in a garage or turn on the climate control on demand using an app on my phone.

As for the cost of energy, one should also look at efficiency. An internal combustion engine is not all that efficient at turning gasoline into motion/power for accessories. Somewhere in the 20-40% efficiency range. So 60-80% of the stored energy in a gallon of gas goes to waste.

Electric motors used by EVs are generally 85-90% efficient.

Couple that increased efficiency with centralized electric production which is much cleaner than millions of tailpipe emissions and the carbon footprint of an EV is much more attractive.

I can give some more context to electrical heat pumps and compressors. Belt-driven compressors are limited by how fast the engine is turning, which traditionally has meant that AC systems needed to be overdesigned for when the vehicle was in bumper-to-bumper traffic on a hot day. Electric fans were a big help too, but by installing an electric compressor, you can reduce the size and cost of the other components without sacrificing performance. And like you mentioned, you wouldn't need to run the engine if you wanted to pre-cool the vehicle before getting in.

Heat pumps and electric heaters have been used for a while now in diesel trucks. Engines today are so efficient that they actually don't pump out enough waste heat to warm the cabin, so they'll use an electric heater right as the coolant enters the heater core. With electric vehicles, they are so much more efficient that the waste heat is almost negligible when it comes to heating the cabin. And since a heat pump is just a flipped air conditioner, cars are now starting to use electric compressors and valves to have the same system both heat and cool the engine and cabin.

 

[sam_gordon]

I don't think you will be able to buy a new car in 2025 that does not have a stop/start feature enabled by default.

So buy used. It's a better deal anyway.

 

[tvguy]

I haven't seen that or even heard of it but if it exists it still needs the use of the engine to recharge that battery. There is a catch to everything, however, I have yet to see or hear about an electronic ac outside of home AC's. I would personally not think of that as a selling point. The energy needed to run anything electrical is never considered by most people. It's a lot like and electric car not having a carbon footprint. It does have a major one in the form of many coal burning generating facilities needed to charge it back up. Nothing is ever free of some cost, it is just more like a hidden cost. If we don't see it, it's not there syndrome.

Our 2020 Camry hybrid has electronic ac as do all hybrids, and of course electric cars. The Prius hybrids came standard with ac and an electronic ac compressor and they have been on the road since 1990, so 24 years.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2658943040...6e08cd7450cbbdddc64c6cf2e8891f6d48747c6d56d2c

 

[sam_gordon]

For those interested in a permanent solution, you may want to try this:
https://www.autostopeliminator.com/

Looks like Amazon sells different versions too.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Auto+Sta...le/eliminator,electronics,90&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

Here's a video with someone installing it on his vehicle:

NOTE: I'm not advocating it, and any risk you take is your own.