Island Tower at Polynesian Villas & Bungalows

[Kailunkat]

That’s not a simple question. DVC allows them to hide construction costs from their balance sheet (though not from their cash flow statement) and realize lots of potential future revenue quickly.

But over the next 50 years, at 90% occupancy and 80% of rack rate, they almost certainly would make more money off of running them as a standard hotel. So usually, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to just convert something already built.

But that is assuming that everyone efficiently uses their points and doesn't waste points during the year correct? It would be interesting to know how many DVC points get left on the table each year and how many dollars that equates to.

 

[CastAStone]

But that is assuming that everyone efficiently uses their points and doesn't waste points during the year correct? It would be interesting to know how many DVC points get left on the table each year and how many dollars that equates to.

There’s lots of unknowns. That’s certainly one - Disney has to pay the condo association for the first 2.5% of unused rooms that they rent for cash (above and beyond the points Disney just owns), but they seem to always hit it, indicating they’re renting more that that.

Other unknowns: How much profit does Disney make from management fees, how much do they make in II exchange fees, how much do they make from all the ridiculous Disney Collection “exchanges”, how much more than our fair share of the total resort costs for shared resorts are DVC owners paying, what discount rate is Disney using, how are they financing construction, etc

I’m making assumptions based on what I’ve learned about the industry from reading earnings calls for various hoteliers and timeshare operators (and companies that do both). I might be wrong!

 

[Sandisw]

Which way brings in more revenue? Renting the rooms for cash or selling points? Sure, the points are bigger transactions, but there are fewer of them. Those construction loan payments wait for no one.

Honestly, I don’t see them pushing DVC back…but technically, it could be if they decided there was a good reason to if it meant no 2024 points.

 

[Jwaire]

But that is assuming that everyone efficiently uses their points and doesn't waste points during the year correct? It would be interesting to know how many DVC points get left on the table each year and how many dollars that equates to.

Oh, I can tell you hundreds of thousands of points go wasted every year. No doubt. That's one advantage of DVC for TWDC. Just the number of orphaned points from members that use their points would add up.

 

[Sandisw]

Has it already be discussed if the entire tower has to be declared into DVC? The two bedroom suites at the top of building seem odd. “Suites” is hotel lingo … maybe they are keeping part of the building for themselves

They do not have to make the entire thing PVB. That is why the declarations might give us a clue o if they have any other intent to do anything other than what most expect.

 

[Jwaire]

Those construction loan payments wait for no one.

They finance everything internally. Why they can slow down construction as needed or just leave half built hotels abandoned for years.

 

[mkatsy]

Honestly, I don’t see them pushing DVC back…but technically, it could be if they decided there was a good reason to if it meant no 2024 points.

Ohhhh that’s probably the delay. As soon as DBPR issues the timeshare license the weeks are added to PVB and the points are “birthed” into existence … don’t apply for the license if you don’t want the points

 

[Sandisw]

Ohhhh that’s probably the delay. As soon as DBPR issues the timeshare license the weeks are added to PVB and the points are “birthed” into existence … don’t apply for the license if you don’t want the points

But it only becomes relevant for the first set of points…assuming it follows how things have worked…since they can be no earlier than the calendar year the rooms are ready occupancy,

Take BPK…I believe thr license happened in 2021, but first set of points for those rooms was 2022…it was also why they did not sell points declared in the original units when it started. Since those units did exist, they would have had trouble denying 2021 points to those whose UYS were after opening.

 

[Jimsboy]

Agreed. There is already a lot of pressure to convince people RIV is a top tier DVC, and it still gets flack over being the first "resale challenged" resort due to the restrictions - pricing it below Poly would not help its image at all ... and bumping prices across the board seems poor timing with the travel leisure industry numbers already struggling. Disney "looks" stronger if it can simply hold the numbers (and hide drops in incentives), than if it has to drop noticeably over the next year or two due to overpricing now - that hits too many Red Flags for for the Disney PR/Market.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Sorry not following the VGC scenario. I never liked the idea of restrictions. We bought Riviera in spite of the restrictions. Love the resort and the access to Epcot and HS. We like to alternate between BCV and Riviera, so I book at 11 months and check at 7 months at BCV. We stay in 1br's so we usually can modify when we want to.

As a VGC owner, I would be completely fine with resale owners not being able to book the resort. However, I hypothesize that a large wave of VDH people waitlist VGC the second they book their trip….

 

[Jwaire]

As a VGC owner, I would be completely fine with resale owners not being able to book the resort.

How elite of you.

I understand being frustrated by VGC's availability, but no-one should be advocating for restrictions, period. It lowers the value of your contract, should you need to sell and sets up a two class system for DVC.

We operated for two+ decades without it. It was conjured up by Ken Potrock's DVC administration to protect DVC direct sales, not improve your ability to book your home resort.

However, I hypothesize that a large wave of VDH people waitlist VGC the second they book their trip….

Like most of the membership, especially here, does for every single other property at 7 months.

 

[maui22]

But it only becomes relevant for the first set of points…assuming it follows how things have worked…since they can be no earlier than the calendar year the rooms are ready occupancy,

Take BPK…I believe thr license happened in 2021, but first set of points for those rooms was 2022…it was also why they did not sell points declared in the original units when it started. Since those units did exist, they would have had trouble denying 2021 points to those whose UYS were after opening.

BPK license was July of 2021. Sales started in 2022 and only UYs before July received 2022 points.

If they wait until June to file the license and sell in 2024, am I understanding correctly they would only give June and later UYs 2024 points?
Similarly, if they wait until July for the license, only give 2024 points to those with July or later UYs?

Edit: interesting note on the UYs that may receive 2024 points. Based on @tjkraz DVCnews article from 2015, June was the first PVB UY to receive points. For that reason, I think we see a timeshare license in June of 2024. After understanding @Sandisw and @mkatsy conversation about the UY, doing this means no original PVB receives any special treatment for UY points.

https://mail.dvcnews.com/wdw-resort...guide-to-disney-s-polynesian-villas-bungalows

 

[AstroBlasters]

How elite of you.

I understand being frustrated by VGC's availability, but no-one should be advocating for restrictions, period. It lowers the value of your contract, should you need to sell and sets up a two class system for DVC.

We operated for two+ decades without it. It was conjured up by Ken Potrock's DVC administration to protect DVC direct sales, not improve your ability to book your home resort.



Like most of the membership, especially here, does for every single other property at 7 months.

How “elite of me”? LOL

Are you trying to class warfare this?

 

[Sandisw]

BPK license was July of 2021. Sales started in 2022 and only UYs before July received 2022 points.

If they wait until June to file the license and sell in 2024, am I understanding correctly they would only give June and later UYs 2024 points?
Similarly, if they wait until July for the license, only give 2024 points to those with July or later UYs?

Edit: interesting note on the UYs that may receive 2024 points. Based on @tjkraz DVCnews article from 2015, June was the first PVB UY to receive points. For that reason, I think we see a timeshare license in June of 2024. After understanding @Sandisw and @mkatsy conversation about the UY, doing this means no original PVB receives any special treatment for UY points.

https://mail.dvcnews.com/wdw-resort...guide-to-disney-s-polynesian-villas-bungalows

That is not accurate. I bought June and Dec UY and got 2022 points for each one.

The dues for my Dec UY were only one month because I was in my 2021 UY when those rooms opened so I didn’t owe them until my first set started.

All UYs got the 2022 points. RIV opened in Dec 2019 and I think the only ones left off were Feb and maybe March?

So, I don’t think the date of license makes a difference but rather when the rooms open for DVc points booking.

We shall see how the handle this.

 

[Cfabar1]

I have to think a part of the resale restrictions is also to lighten the demand on some of the tough/hard to book resorts as time goes on...

we won't really know the impact on resale restrictions for about ten or twenty years.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I have to think a part of the resale restrictions is also to lighten the demand on some of the tough/hard to book resorts as time goes on...

we won't really know the impact on resale restrictions for about ten or twenty years.

Well, I am glad that POLY2 will not have resale restrictions… even though I think I’ll probably just walk over from VGF.

I’m am curious to see what the 7m availability of the penthouse villas is going to be after the first few years.

 

[AwfulWaffle]

we won't really know the impact on resale restrictions for about ten or twenty years.

We don’t but we do know that on average most timeshares for Disney are kept for 10-15 years before resold. If that statistic holds true for riviera then it won’t be long before that resort has had enough resale inventory purchased where 7 month and below inventory is slim. Restrictions also “force” resale owners to be more flexible with planning out vacations because they no longer have access to the “last minute ssr, alv, and okw” resorts. Now they have to be 11 month planners or roll the dice on a wait list that may fail to go through. Wait list they are now competing with against every 7month direct non Riv member. I can plan 11 months now but who knows in 5 years if I still can so the risk is just too great for me to take. Even though it is a beautiful resort. It should make for interesting finds in the resale market. Especially once those cabins hit it.

 

[mkatsy]

That is not accurate. I bought June and Dec UY and got 2022 points for each one.

The dues for my Dec UY were only one month because I was in my 2021 UY when those rooms opened so I didn’t owe them until my first set started.

All UYs got the 2022 points. RIV opened in Dec 2019 and I think the only ones left off were Feb and maybe March?

So, I don’t think the date of license makes a difference but rather when the rooms open for DVc points booking.

We shall see how the handle this.

I think you’re right, because I definitely got my 2022 VGF points too. Ugh … just file the paperwork already

 

[Sandisw]

I think you’re right, because I definitely got my 2022 VGF points too. Ugh … just file the paperwork already

I know. But, I think the delay of all of this, IMO, means that they were still toying with the idea of what to do in a way they were not for BPK…and maybe other projects as well.

It certainly seems they want it to be the next best secret!

 

[Sandisw]

We don’t but we do know that on average most timeshares for Disney are kept for 10-15 years before resold. If that statistic holds true for riviera then it won’t be long before that resort has had enough resale inventory purchased where 7 month and below inventory is slim. Restrictions also “force” resale owners to be more flexible with planning out vacations because they no longer have access to the “last minute ssr, alv, and okw” resorts. Now they have to be 11 month planners or roll the dice on a wait list that may fail to go through. Wait list they are now competing with against every 7month direct non Riv member. I can plan 11 months now but who knows in 5 years if I still can so the risk is just too great for me to take. Even though it is a beautiful resort. It should make for interesting finds in the resale market. Especially once those cabins hit it.

I think that statistic is referring to of the ones that actually get sold, thr owner has owned about that time.

But, not that most owners sell that soon. I agree that if you are going to be a one resort contract, you need to be a planner…but I have seen the shift in the15 years we have owned that no matter what, planning is needed.

What we also don’t know is what DVC has in store to help those resale owners down the line. DVC/DVD own a lot of points. I could definitely see them come up with a per reservation upsell where those owners pay to trade their points for a fee and DVD books them with their own points at resorts left.

We shall see