Jon and Kate Plus 8 official Thread, Part 2!!

[daughtersrus]

could they leave their home to their kids if the kids are minors? is there a tax advantage to having a trust?

We have set up a trust for our youngest daughter. She has a rare genetic disease and as a result is disabled. The trust is not in her name nor is it under her SS#. The trust has it's own tax ID# that taxes are filed under. For us, this was necessary because once she turns 18yo, she wouldn't qualify for Medicaid or SS if her assets were over a certain level. The assets of the trust do not qualify towards this amount and can only be used for expenses not covered under any other government program. I set up the trust and DH is the trustee. We had to ask all family that may leave DD something to specifically exclude her from their wills but specify that anything that would be left to her be left to the trust fund. (ex. my in-laws had the XX% of their assets would be divided equally among their grandchildren. It now says that YY% will be left to the trust fund and the remainder divided among the named grandchildren leaving DD's name out)

I bring this up for two reasons. One because I'm sure that there are other parents of special needs kids that many be reading this and not be aware of the need for a trust. Also because I may be wrong but I think that all trusts file taxes under a tax ID# and not a SS#. As for tax advantages, I'm not sure. Our purpose was to protect DD's assets from "spend down" when she becomes eligible for government benefits.

 

[bbsak]

daughtersrus I think that all trusts file taxes under a tax ID# and not a SS#.

I've only experienced having to file a trust after death using a tax ID #. However, my own trust which is functioning while I'm alive and administering it myself, I file using my SS#. Once you obtain a tax ID# it really doesn't make any difference - I don't think. I just haven't had to get an ID# yet.

I'm so glad to know you've provided for your daughter's future. You're so right that many parents of children with special needs aren't aware of the importance of trusts. IMO, it should be something that's addressed in a special class in the school system. Not only is educating the children important, but so is educating the parents on how to be the best advocates for their kids and how to protect and provide for their futures.

I don't know. The trust money is technically yours-- but I'm sure the trust company and the people within the trust are under contract and the money cannot be pulled out at any time, at least without penalty. Its your money- but its under someone else's supervision if that makes sense. Most people draw a month what they feel like is adequate for their lifestyle... i.e... some gets enough to pay them as if they worked a job that money, and some with higher costs of living often pay themselves more..... I think a trust is a good thing especially if one comes into a large amount of money at once. You often hear about lottery winners who go out and buy, buy, buy, and are then broke, broke, broke. I don't know how much J&K have earned over time though. It's a good way to limit yourself.

There are many kinds of trusts. A common one used by 'everyday people' like me is a revocable living trust in which you list yourself or others as trustees. In my case, I'm trustee of my own trust until a time comes when I'm incapacitated or die and then a successor trustee steps in to carry out my wishes - basically like a will. The revocable living trust can be changed or discontinued. There is also an irrevocable living trust which means that once it's established, it cannot be changed.
I can only speak from personal experience (handling spouse and parental trust settlements as their personal representatives and drawing up my own) our trusts were drawn up to avoid probate court at the time of our death and to specify exactly what we wanted done with our assets (how they were to be divided, given to whom, etc). Everything I own is (owned) titled in my trust name(car, house, bank account, all investments, CD's, etc). BUT, because I'm trustee of my own trust, the assets are being used for my benefit, any of my assets could be taken from me if I was sued - because I control the assets, someone could lay claim to them.

To shelter money and possessions so that no one can touch it, the trust has to be for the sole benefit of someone else, managed by someone else and irrevocable in that regard (most people do not choose this option).

A trust only pays you when you tell it to. In other words, if you're talking about the Gosselin's and if they set up a trust for their children; even if the parents are still alive, the trust would pay out only with whatever frequency was set up (monthly, yearly, or even not until the parent's death). Even if assets have been set aside for the Gosselin children no one knows when the children are eligible to access it, or (heaven forbid this is the case)if the parents will retain control for their whole lifetime and the kids only get access when the parents die. Or the trust could be one in which the parents are not the trustees and someone else has the duty to distribute the assets in the manner in which the trust specifies. The person who establishes the trust is the one who has control over how the trust operates - they can bll be different in many aspects.

To be honest, it really isn't much different than a will except that a trust is in operation while the party is alive. A trust doesn't really shelter money, it's just sets up specific rules for the management of assets. As daughtersrus said, trusts can put specific limits on assets and protects them for special purposes - depends on how you write the trust. A trust sheltered some assets from specific state taxes and of course avoided having to go through probate (which is long drawn out and sometimes costly process) for 3 estates I handled.

 

[Maggimus]

I've only experienced having to file a trust after death using a tax ID #. However, my own trust which is functioning while I'm alive and administering it myself, I file using my SS#. Once you obtain a tax ID# it really doesn't make any difference - I don't think. I just haven't had to get an ID# yet.

I'm so glad to know you've provided for your daughter's future. You're so right that many parents of children with special needs aren't aware of the importance of trusts. IMO, it should be something that's addressed in a special class in the school system. Not only is educating the children important, but so is educating the parents on how to be the best advocates for their kids and how to protect and provide for their futures.




There are many kinds of trusts. A common one used by 'everyday people' like me is a revocable living trust in which you list yourself or others as trustees. In my case, I'm trustee of my own trust until a time comes when I'm incapacitated or die and then a successor trustee steps in to carry out my wishes - basically like a will. The revocable living trust can be changed or discontinued. There is also an irrevocable living trust which means that once it's established, it cannot be changed.
I can only speak from personal experience (handling spouse and parental trust settlements as their personal representatives and drawing up my own) our trusts were drawn up to avoid probate court at the time of our death and to specify exactly what we wanted done with our assets (how they were to be divided, given to whom, etc). Everything I own is (owned) titled in my trust name(car, house, bank account, all investments, CD's, etc). BUT, because I'm trustee of my own trust, the assets are being used for my benefit, any of my assets could be taken from me if I was sued - because I control the assets, someone could lay claim to them.

To shelter money and possessions so that no one can touch it, the trust has to be for the sole benefit of someone else, managed by someone else and irrevocable in that regard (most people do not choose this option).

A trust only pays you when you tell it to. In other words, if you're talking about the Gosselin's and if they set up a trust for their children; even if the parents are still alive, the trust would pay out only with whatever frequency was set up (monthly, yearly, or even not until the parent's death). Even if assets have been set aside for the Gosselin children no one knows when the children are eligible to access it, or (heaven forbid this is the case)if the parents will retain control for their whole lifetime and the kids only get access when the parents die. Or the trust could be one in which the parents are not the trustees and someone else has the duty to distribute the assets in the manner in which the trust specifies. The person who establishes the trust is the one who has control over how the trust operates - they can bll be different in many aspects.

To be honest, it really isn't much different than a will except that a trust is in operation while the party is alive. A trust doesn't really shelter money, it's just sets up specific rules for the management of assets. As daughtersrus said, trusts can put specific limits on assets and protects them for special purposes - depends on how you write the trust. A trust sheltered some assets from specific state taxes and of course avoided having to go through probate (which is long drawn out and sometimes costly process) for 3 estates I handled.

why did you quote me?

 

[Maggimus]

http://life.familyeducation.com/trust-funds/money-and-kids/48035.html

 

[newtodis]

I don't really think I know what that means. and why would someone do this? what's the benefits?

If you accumulate a lot of money, most people put the money in a "trust". The "trust" then pays you each month and makes money for you at the same time. Some feel it keeps you more responsible and stretches the money out over a length of time. You set it up for certain people (i.e. if an older parent couple so decides, they not only can be included in the trust draw each month, but of the age children). Once someone dies... the trust can then step go to whomever that person has previously decided. All of that money that was once in the trust then becomes someone elses. Thats the best lamens terms I can give... we have family that belong to trust funds and thats how it works as far as I can see.

Also, I could be wrong, but if someone tries to sue you - you basically have nothing or something to that effect - am I right about that or dream it up??

I don't know. The trust money is technically yours-- but I'm sure the trust company and the people within the trust are under contract and the money cannot be pulled out at any time, at least without penalty. Its your money- but its under someone else's supervision if that makes sense. Most people draw a month what they feel like is adequate for their lifestyle... i.e... some gets enough to pay them as if they worked a job that money, and some with higher costs of living often pay themselves more. I'm not sure about this, but I imagine the more you leave in the trust (i.e. don't draw each month) the more your money is making money for you (kind of like a savings account). Many people who set up trusts have enough money within (and make enough money on it) to set themselves up for life on a draw, as well as many loved ones for quite a few generations. Thats a general statement... Im not certain that EVERYONES trusts can go on for generations-- but I have seen them do that and I know they can be set up to span over great-great grandchildrens generations (and maybe longer-- depending on the amount put it and the amount drawn).

I would imagine that if the house is in a trust... that it would be being paid for by the trust company. I guess the trust company would write the mortgage company a check or something? I don't know. I have no direct dealings with a trust but have been around them a lot. I certainly don't know all of the technicality of it-- so I could very well be wrong.

I think a trust is a good thing especially if one comes into a large amount of money at once. You often hear about lottery winners who go out and buy, buy, buy, and are then broke, broke, broke. I don't know how much J&K have earned over time though. It's a good way to limit yourself.

Ok here's what I know from DH's involvement currently in a trust of a family member. I don't know all of the details as this was all set up prior to me being involved with the family. Basically, DH's family member set up a trust for his assests and possessions as he had bad health. He also set up a power of attorney appointing people to make decisions for him if he wasn't able. In his trust, he specifically listed what each person got or used or whatever from his estate while he was still living. He's since passed and now his will's pretty much taken over the trust. Things that were part of the trust have now become part of the estate and treated as such with the distribution of assests and things like that. I can't tell you about being sued as (thankfully) we haven't had that problem. I know it wasn't something DH was concerned about. We did have his house and several other things in different names/locations/situations in case he was ever sued due to him being a firefighter and someone not being happy with the actions he took while on duty (someone suing him for accidentally hurting them trying to get them out of a car accident or fire or something like that). As for taking the money out of the trust, there was no penalty. Taking money from the estate didn't cause a problem either (thankfully we were lucky enough to have both to help us cover some costs of moving from MI to SC). Granted, there are taxes on "income" and you can only accept "gifts" to a certain amount each year in regards to cash. I'm not sure how the house would fall into this. The property from the trust DH was/is part of is currently on the market for the profits from the sales to be split between those involved in the will/estate at this point.

Hopefully that makes a little bit of sense. I guess it was kind of like having/using someone else's stuff without having to take care of it or be responsible for it (at least in our case). I don't know if that sounds right - I would think the Gosselins (or us in our situation - I know we did) would take care of the property/funds/whatever they are responsible for in the trust. Like another poster mentioned, there are lots of different kinds of trusts and the person responsible for that trust *can* make a good living just off of taking care of that trust or estate.

 

[newtodis]

OT - madge - I LOVE your pictures. I peeked at your photo blog and it's amazing!

 

[madge]

OT - madge - I LOVE your pictures. I peeked at your photo blog and it's amazing!

thanks! When I grow up, I'd love to free lance or something I think I need some more training, though. LOL

 

[DznyLvr2005]

if anyone's interested in watching the suspensful last episode of season 4, it's on right now on TLC

 

[newtodis]

thanks! When I grow up, I'd love to free lance or something I think I need some more training, though. LOL

You'd be great at it! I've had several people tell me I should take pictures as work but I don't think I'm to that point yet. Rumor has it that I'm going to be asked to be a photographer at a wedding this summer so I guess I won't have much choice at that point. I think your pictures are wonderful - and "training", you obviously have the "eye" and I think that's the hardest point to get down.

Another kind of OT - I watched the frist Table for 12 yesterday afternoon. I don't think that was a good "first" episode. I would have liked to have seen something more like introducing the family members and stuff like that instead of starting off with the mom's birthday party....hard to "connect" to them without knowing anything about them. Granted, I still got teary at the end when she got the card and they showed parts of the video. Of course I thought, "gosh he did that with 10 kids and my DH can't do it with 2????".

Back OT - I watched the episode where they said "goodbye" to the old house. A couple of things came to mind:
1. Who was in the house with the kids while they were cleaning out the garage or basement or attic or anything else?? There was no mention of the helper or anything (I think this was prior to her being spoken about by Jon at his speaking engagement or anything). I just found it weird. Now, I leave my kids in the house if it's raining when I get the mail or something but not for too long - who knows what I'd come back to!
2. How rude of Kate to say something like she'd finally be done and happy with that house when she wasn't getting any more bills. She then said - with a very yucky face - how "annoying truly annoying" it was. Ok then don't move if you can't/don't want to pay for that house while not living there.
3. I recently watched the "outtakes" episode where Kate yelled at Jon for speaking to Jen, one of the producers while they were filming in the forest carring their pine cones. She went on about how they were supposed to "talk like they're not there - haven't you learned that yet?". It was hard to ignore all the times in the last couple of episodes Kate's specifically asked questions of the crew and expected a verbal answer back from them - isn't that breaking her own rule??
4. I loved how excited the kids got coloring on the newspaper paper on the dinning room floor. It really is the little things that can make you happy!
5. I thought it was adorable when the kids were in the driveway saying "bye" to the house. I loved the the little video they put together at the end - again teary eyes.

Again those are just my opinions/observations and I could be totally off/wrong - I'm sure someone will point it out if I missed anything. That's one of the blessings of this debate.

 

[DMRick]

1. Who was in the house with the kids while they were cleaning out the garage or basement or attic or anything else?? There was no mention of the helper or anything (I think this was prior to her being spoken about by Jon at his speaking engagement or anything). I just found it weird. Now, I leave my kids in the house if it's raining when I get the mail or something but not for too long - who knows what I'd come back to!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying..but if they were cleaning the basement, garage or attic, they parents were in the house. It's not like they left them alone while they went back to the new house. The parents were right there. The house was pretty empty..and the kids were just running around through it while the parents cleaned and packed. And the camera people were also there.

 

[lucas]

Another kind of OT - I watched the frist Table for 12 yesterday afternoon. I don't think that was a good "first" episode. I would have liked to have seen something more like introducing the family members and stuff like that instead of starting off with the mom's birthday party....hard to "connect" to them without knowing anything about them. Granted, I still got teary at the end when she got the card and they showed parts of the video. Of course I thought, "gosh he did that with 10 kids and my DH can't do it with 2????".

TLC had a special called "Twins, Twins And Sextuplets" about the family. Can't remember if it was an hour long or 1/2 hour show. It basically introduced the family. Now their show, "Table for 12" is on.

 

[newtodis]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying..but if they were cleaning the basement, garage or attic, they parents were in the house. It's not like they left them alone while they went back to the new house. The parents were right there. The house was pretty empty..and the kids were just running around through it while the parents cleaned and packed. And the camera people were also there.

In the house but with no direct supervision from their parents. Personally, if the camera crew is hired to "film", I don't think "child care" is listed on their job description. Don't get me wrong, I would hope if it were a dangerous situation that one of the TLC staff would certainly step in. I just feel that it's mom and dad's job to watch the kids. If they're wanting to get the house cleaned out, then have someone else watch the kids for you while you do what you need to do. Just my feeling on that...

TLC had a special called "Twins, Twins And Sextuplets" about the family. Can't remember if it was an hour long or 1/2 hour show. It basically introduced the family. Now their show, "Table for 12" is on.

Thanks! I must have (obviously) missed that. I'll have to see if I can find it.

 

[maxie]

Has anyone here read Multiple Blessings, the gosselins book?..I just started it today and its a very interesting read...It even mentions Kates mother a few times so far..(iam only a couple of chapters in)..It appears they were close..she mentions calling her mother every day througout her pregnancy with the twins.

Of course they may still be close..it could be that they only see kates parents off camera...Do we actually have any hard evidence of an estrangment there...or is all just hearsay and speculation?

Also something that jumped out to me...it could be that Kate is a Diser....She mentions planning her family Disney trip back in 2003 or 2004..with the twins before the tups were born...she says like everything she does she threw herself into the planning and learnt all she could about what time of day to ride dumbo and how to book cindys breakfast in the castle!

Could it be Kate was busy dising with the rest of us back then..or even now!

Iam enjoying the book and its making me like Kate and understand her even more!

I read it a few months ago. Sounds like Kate has a positive relationship with both her mother and her sisters. I really wonder about all this talk that they don't see her family at all.

She doesn't mention that she is not into computers at all. I figure a lot of her WDW knowledge was maybe gained from planning books instead of a website.

 

[madge]

You'd be great at it! I've had several people tell me I should take pictures as work but I don't think I'm to that point yet. Rumor has it that I'm going to be asked to be a photographer at a wedding this summer so I guess I won't have much choice at that point. I think your pictures are wonderful - and "training", you obviously have the "eye" and I think that's the hardest point to get down.

thanks so much!! I don't have a lot invested in high end lenses or other equipment, I feel like I need to learn so much more before I do that.

if you want to see good pictures, though .. hop over to the photography board on the DIS. there are some amazing photographers over there!

 

[madge]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying..but if they were cleaning the basement, garage or attic, they parents were in the house. It's not like they left them alone while they went back to the new house. The parents were right there. The house was pretty empty..and the kids were just running around through it while the parents cleaned and packed. And the camera people were also there.

I agree. I didn't think it was unusual that they'd be cleaning in the basement while the kids were running around upstairs.

and I believe there have always been helpers around, seen or unseen.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

I watched the 2 final shows last night AGAIN! I wanted to try to see the entire picture & came up with the same assessment, "whatever Kate wants if what's going to rule"......
I (still) feel bad for Jon & also I wonder when or if the kids are ever going to recognize that they are not living a normal life & having normal experiences.
I have to worry that when/if the fame goes away & the kids don't get backstage at a performance, event will they start to rebel.

Interesting how they kept Maddie at bay.......maybe to many comparisons how she was headed to being a mini me of Kate.

 

[bbsak]

Originally Posted by DMRick
The parents were right there. The house was pretty empty..and the kids were just running around through it while the parents cleaned and packed. And the camera people were also there.

I agree. I didn't think it was unusual that they'd be cleaning in the basement while the kids were running around upstairs.
and I believe there have always been helpers around, seen or unseen.

IMO, they didn't go over to the house to 'really' clean it. I think it was simply one of the storylines for an episode. Had they 'really' cleaned the house we'd have seen the basement piles brought upstairs, attic things brought down, garage emptied. Someone else, or maybe even J&K themselves went back another time and 'cleaned' the house. I agree with Madge that there were many production people there during filming and that there are usually helpers around for various needs.

 

[bbsak]

I watched the 2 final shows last night AGAIN! I wanted to try to see the entire picture & came up with the same assessment, "whatever Kate wants if what's going to rule"......
I (still) feel bad for Jon & also I wonder when or if the kids are ever going to recognize that they are not living a normal life & having normal experiences.
I have to worry that when/if the fame goes away & the kids don't get backstage at a performance, event will they start to rebel.

Interesting how they kept Maddie at bay.......maybe to many comparisons how she was headed to being a mini me of Kate.

I don't know if it was intentional that Mady was in almost no scenes or if it was just a coincidence, but it was definitely noticeable. And, leads to questions about why, why not, etc. Me? I'd hope J&K and producers would try to prevent situations that create questions about the kids. Questioning the parents is ok, they can handle it, but IMO, the kids shouldn't be put in situations that lead to speculation and gossip.

 

[bbsak]

I did some math last night. Another site that counts the number of J&K episodes lists the last show as #92. Emeril twittered on March 11 that he'd taped their 100th show with them, so they have new 8 episodes ready to go and are well in the midst of taping season 5. I think any wondering about the future of their next season can be put to rest and we'll see a full season again.

 

[TotalSnowWhite]

I'm such a lurker this week!! Too much to catch up on, so I'll wait for another drama to pop up so I can gossip in real time. No JK8 for two weeks for me! Well, there was a little something at Epcot, but we'll save that for another day.

Glad to be home, JK8ers and H8ers, but I think I'll hold off until our fearless leader, OhMari, starts a new thread in a few pages. Last week was the finale, right? So, once I catch those in reruns, I'll be back to my oh-so-demure and no-strong-opinions self.