Jungle Cruise Update Coming

[BrianL]

My view has a slightly different tilt. I keep telling myself that this is a Vacation, and an expensive one at that. There should not be any attraction that insults the customer. How is that a vacation to see my race made fun of? I am of Polish decent, how would I feel if instead of Monster Inc Laugh Floor they had a Polish Laugh Floor where endless Polish jokes were repeated. So yes, updating rides is a good thing and should continue as needed.

It can be a little complicated because something being "offensive" is in the eye of the beholder. They aren't actually making fun of an entire race, BUT the context around a lot of scenes in the ride is lacking and there is no inclusion in other aspects of it, so I totally get why it can be seen as problematic. The fact it that the ride is sort of "out of touch" these days, so I am all for changing it.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

My view has a slightly different tilt. I keep telling myself that this is a Vacation, and an expensive one at that. There should not be any attraction that insults the customer. How is that a vacation to see my race made fun of? I am of Polish decent, how would I feel if instead of Monster Inc Laugh Floor they had a Polish Laugh Floor where endless Polish jokes were repeated. So yes, updating rides is a good thing and should continue as needed.

That seems similar to how I came around/changed my view after they announced the change to Pirates. At first I thought - does this really need to change? It is a classic, a scene Walt saw, etc. .... BUT then I saw how much that scene negatively impacted a lot of people and if this change makes the ride more enjoyable to more people then that is a positive

And see the same here or with Splash Mountain - clearly quite a few people arenegatively impacted by the current form, so why should I be against changing it? There really isn't a reason to not change it other than "but we shouldn't have to change it" - that isn't good enough in my mind

 

[YesterDark]

Did I post in this thread yet?

JC is one of my favorites and I'm excited about this. The ride has long needed a refresh/refurb/touchup not to mention any insensitivities. Should be great as long as they keep to the original feel and theme. I don't think they would dare change the vibe in any way.

 

[YesterDark]

That seems similar to how I came around/changed my view after they announced the change to Pirates. At first I thought - does this really need to change? It is a classic, a scene Walt saw, etc. .... BUT then I saw how much that scene negatively impacted a lot of people and if this change makes the ride more enjoyable to more people then that is a positive

And see the same here or with Splash Mountain - clearly quite a few people arenegatively impacted by the current form, so why should I be against changing it? There really isn't a reason to not change it other than "but we shouldn't have to change it" - that isn't good enough in my mind

I think your thought process is one many people need to take when change is announced. The thought process of just because "Walt did it.." will crowd out future creativity. Walt's work should be an inspiration not an impediment to change.

 

[Bellhop97]

I may actually ride it again.. needed updating.

 

[BrianL]

That seems similar to how I came around/changed my view after they announced the change to Pirates. At first I thought - does this really need to change? It is a classic, a scene Walt saw, etc. .... BUT then I saw how much that scene negatively impacted a lot of people and if this change makes the ride more enjoyable to more people then that is a positive

And see the same here or with Splash Mountain - clearly quite a few people arenegatively impacted by the current form, so why should I be against changing it? There really isn't a reason to not change it other than "but we shouldn't have to change it" - that isn't good enough in my mind

I do sort of understand both sides. I do firmly believe that being offended by something like this is a choice - we don't have to let things have power over us like that. However, there's also no reason that people should really have to be making a choice like that at Disney and I totally get the need to make changes.

I felt the changes to POTC weren't really necessary, but as I see it there are two choices for me: I can be all upset and never enjoy Pirates again because of it, or just go with it and appreciate it for what it is, not what it isn't (or what it was). It's an easy choice for me, and I still love POTC and Disney World.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I do sort of understand both sides. I do firmly believe that being offended by something like this is a choice - we don't have to let things have power over us like that. However, there's also no reason that people should really have to be making a choice like that at Disney and I totally get the need to make changes.

I felt the changes to POTC weren't really necessary, but as I see it there are two choices for me: I can be all upset and never enjoy Pirates again because of it, or just go with it and appreciate it for what it is, not what it isn't (or what it was). It's an easy choice for me, and I still love POTC and Disney World.

yeah, I do think your last point is something that the people really upset by this change should think about - this change isn't being made for you but so others can enjoy the ride more ... and you can either accept that and still enjoy the ride that isnt' fundamentally changing, or make a "stand" and deprive yourself of the fun ride

I also get what you are saying as far as if this offends you - but in this case it does seem pretty obvious in that the characters with light skin are the expedition leaders and those with dark skin are referred to as "savages", it is pretty blatent. Personally I think it was more debatable at Pirates in that pirates are bad people who do bad things, so yeah, they are depicted as doing bad things - but I also got how the scene made people uncomfortable it it didn't *have* to stay.

 

[BrianL]

yeah, I do think your last point is something that the people really upset by this change should think about - this change isn't being made for you but so others can enjoy the ride more ... and you can either accept that and still enjoy the ride that isnt' fundamentally changing, or make a "stand" and deprive yourself of the fun ride

I also get what you are saying as far as if this offends you - but in this case it does seem pretty obvious in that the characters with light skin are the expedition leaders and those with dark skin are referred to as "savages", it is pretty blatent. Personally I think it was more debatable at Pirates in that pirates are bad people who do bad things, so yeah, they are depicted as doing bad things - but I also got how the scene made people uncomfortable it it didn't *have* to stay.

I totally understand that - though the script has been changed and they don't really call them "savages" the subtext is still there. I don't necessarily think they have to remove all natives completely (though if they do that's okay too), but the context needs to change a bit.

I have a friend, African American, and he is totally unflappable about any of this kind of stuff. He just doesn't get offended because he refuses to let those things affect him. Sometimes I wonder how he does it, but I can really respect it. He also doesn't pay much attention to the news and forms his own opinions about everything - sometimes pretty unusual ones at that. He'd be the first to be against any changes too - which is interesting because when something is deemed "offensive" there is this assumption that everyone of a certain group feels that way, but that's really not the case. We as individuals can all make up our own minds - that is often forgoten these days.

 

[wareagle57]

To me there is a big difference in Splash/Maelstrom vs Pirates and JC in terms of what they did/will do to the rides. I'm perfectly fine with what Pirates did, because it removed what was offensive but kept the ride the same. It seems like it's been a year straight of nothing but me hating whatever announcement Disney makes, but this one I have no problem with and am actually excited about. Maybe because JC has been pretty boring and stale to me for a long time now.

 

[yulilin3]

I totally understand that - though the script has been changed and they don't really call them "savages" the subtext is still there. I don't necessarily think they have to remove all natives completely (though if they do that's okay too), but the context needs to change a bit.

I have a friend, African American, and he is totally unflappable about any of this kind of stuff. He just doesn't get offended because he refuses to let those things affect him. Sometimes I wonder how he does it, but I can really respect it. He also doesn't pay much attention to the news and forms his own opinions about everything - sometimes pretty unusual ones at that. He'd be the first to be against any changes too - which is interesting because when something is deemed "offensive" there is this assumption that everyone of a certain group feels that way, but that's really not the case. We as individuals can all make up our own minds - that is often forgoten these days.

Im a minority. Latina, immigrant (some call me illegal alien) divorced mom.
Things like these don't affect me, seeing people that look like me portrayed in roles that are not true doesn't really affect me because i know who i am.

But.

Little kids haven't had a chance to developed that understanding, Disney is supposed to be a fun vacation, an escape, and portraying everyone on a same level, is very powerful. From the concept art I can see skippers of both sexes and races up that pole... accurate/equal representation is important, even if they're all running away from the rhino

 

[SaintsManiac]

Reading about this online since it was announced and I am pleasantly surprised that most people are happy about this. For anyone who isn't I think they need to sit down and think about why.

Disney doesn't just have one person coming up with this. Ideas are pitched and feedback is given. They don't just up and decide one day to change a ride this old.

JC is awkward, stale, boring and cringe-worthy. It was time to change and the concept of this doesn't need to be debated, imo.

And spare me the "this is a discussion board" replies. Anyone against this change is giving me more cringe than the ride itself.

 

[BrianL]

Im a minority. Latina, immigrant (some call me illegal alien) divorced mom.
Things like these don't affect me, seeing people that look like me portrayed in roles that are not true doesn't really affect me because i know who i am.

But.

Little kids haven't had a chance to developed that understanding, Disney is supposed to be a fun vacation, an escape, and portraying everyone on a same level, is very powerful. From the concept art I can see skippers of both sexes and races up that pole... accurate/equal representation is important, even if they're all running away from the rhino

I do understand. I am all for the inclusiveness in the "heroes" of the story. I really don't understand why so many of my generation have a problem with it - I grew up on 80's cartoons which is when they started to make sure there was some representation in the groups. It was done on purpose and targeted to children speicifically to provide a message of inclusivity. Of course, my friend grew up on all the same things, including frequent visist to WDW and rides on the JC and none of it ever bothered him (I guarantee you when I tell him about this he will say "that's stupid" as he did for the Splash & POTC changes too). I don't think he felt that having representation was a big deal. I think in my opinion it shouldn't be "a thing" at all because we should just be doing it anyway withougt thought and purpose - of course I realize that we don't so it is what it is. I don't mind it at all.

 

[Mit88]

I think the mostly positive reaction towards the JC changes says a lot to personal opinions on other issues within the park. People recognize the problematic nature of these scenes and characters within JC whereas with something like Splash, people don’t naturally connect those characters to the source material. There’s no denying the origin of the Splash and when you peel the onion back, there’s a problem at its core, but something like JC, the problems are right there on the outer layer that everyone sees.

At the end of the day, JC needed some sprucing up, cultural issues or not and I think from what we’ve seen thus far, it seems like Disney is going to treat this ride with the love and care it rightfully deserves.

 

[BrianL]

I think the mostly positive reaction towards the JC changes says a lot to personal opinions on other issues within the park. People recognize the problematic nature of these scenes and characters within JC whereas with something like Splash, people don’t naturally connect those characters to the source material. There’s no denying the origin of the Splash and when you peel the onion back, there’s a problem at its core, but something like JC, the problems are right there on the outer layer that everyone sees.

At the end of the day, JC needed some sprucing up, cultural issues or not and I think from what we’ve seen thus far, it seems like Disney is going to treat this ride with the love and care it rightfully deserves.

I think this is one of the reasons there isn't much blowback. A lot of people just don't get or like the JC - they wouldn't call it a favorite like Splash Mountian, you know? It's more polarizing, so sprucing it up to give it more of a "wow" factor is going to be a good move. I mean, I have always LOVED the JC, but it's just not for everybody.

 

[yulilin3]

I do understand. I am all for the inclusiveness in the "heroes" of the story. I really don't understand why so many of my generation have a problem with it - I grew up on 80's cartoons which is when they started to make sure there was some representation in the groups. It was done on purpose and targeted to children speicifically to provide a message of inclusivity. Of course, my friend grew up on all the same things, including frequent visist to WDW and rides on the JC and none of it ever bothered him (I guarantee you when I tell him about this he will say "that's stupid" as he did for the Splash & POTC changes too). I don't think he felt that having representation was a big deal. I think in my opinion it shouldn't be "a thing" at all because we should just be doing it anyway withougt thought and purpose - of course I realize that we don't so it is what it is. I don't mind it at all.

I'll put an additional, personal example. I also, like your friend didn't think NOT being represented mattered, it doesn't bother me not seeing someone like myself represented a WDW
Then I met Princess Elena, had an actual conversation in Spanish and talked about food from my Country (Venezuela) and she knew what I was talking about. Probably my favorite M&G, and that was me as an adult, imagine kids that came, not understanding a word in English and getting to meet her.
Another example
As most of you know by now I am a huge SW fan, more than a Disney fan. The day I watched Rogue One in theaters and heard that familiar English speaking Spanish accent for the first time I was in tears.
Again accurate representation matters

 

[BrianL]

I'll put an additional, personal example. I also, like your friend didn't think NOT being represented mattered, it doesn't bother me not seeing someone like myself represented a WDW
Then I met Princess Elena, had an actual conversation in Spanish and talked about food from my Country (Venezuela) and she knew what I was talking about. Probably my favorite M&G, and that was me as an adult, imagine kids that came, not understanding a word in English and getting to meet her.
Another example
As most of you know by now I am a huge SW fan, more than a Disney fan. The day I watched Rogue One in theaters and heard that familiar English speaking Spanish accent for the first time I was in tears.
Again accurate representation matters

Oh, it absolutely matters - just not to everyone to the same degree as it is often assumed. I guarantee you my friend wouldn't care - that doesn't make him right or wrong, it's just his feelings on the matter. Like I said, he's a pretty unconventional guy. I certainly think it's better to err on the side of inclusivity rather than against it and I don't understand why there are people who are so vehemently against doing that - that's what's really puzzling.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Oh, it absolutely matters - just not to everyone to the same degree as it is often assumed. I guarantee you my friend wouldn't care - that doesn't make him right or wrong, it's just his feelings on the matter. Like I said, he's a pretty unconventional guy. I certainly think it's better to err on the side of inclusivity rather than against it and I don't understand why there are people who are so vehemently against doing that - that's what's really puzzling.

yeah - I recall an episode of Designated Survivor where they were discussing whether a statue of a Confederate Soldier should be taken down - and there were some people really pushing for taking it down including a young white female - but then an older African American on the panel stated he felt it should stay as a reminder of what happened. Then the young white female started lecturing him on why he was wrong - and then he argued back, etc ... and the whole thing is a reminder, to me, of how it is a slippery slope if people started deciding for others what they should be offended by

BUT clearly it is a non-zero percentage of people that are offended/uncomfortable/etc by this and making this change will have a positive impact on them, and for those that were fine with it how it was there isn't a negative impact - at a minimum it will get sprucing up, some new animatronics, maybe new effects, etc. ..... so I really don't see the down side

 

[BrianL]

yeah - I recall an episode of Designated Survivor where they were discussing whether a statue of a Confederate Soldier should be taken down - and there were some people really pushing for taking it down including a young white female - but then an older African American on the panel stated he felt it should stay as a reminder of what happened. Then the young white female started lecturing him on why he was wrong - and then he argued back, etc ... and the whole thing is a reminder, to me, of how it is a slippery slope if people started deciding for others what they should be offended by

BUT clearly it is a non-zero percentage of people that are offended/uncomfortable/etc by this and making this change will have a positive impact on them, and for those that were fine with it how it was there isn't a negative impact - at a minimum it will get sprucing up, some new animatronics, maybe new effects, etc. ..... so I really don't see the down side

Yes, exactly. I bet you can even guess how my friend feels about the statues.... It is definitely problematic to be telling people what should offend them and why. I do sometimes wonder how many people were really offended by something like Splash Mountain before they were told they should be. That doesn't mean the answer is not to change it, but it is part of the conversation that we as a society tend to skip over and I'm not sure that's a good thing.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Well shoot. Now where am I going to go to get all my "Dad Jokes"?

 

[BrianL]

Well shoot. Now where am I going to go to get all my "Dad Jokes"?

I don't think that part is going away, thankfully.