Just Back. Issue 1: Profiling at Park Entrance..

[JimmyV]

I think that people have a skewed view of what "random" really is. Unless the security personnel are taking their guidance from a random number generator (where a computer is solely responsible for indicating which people should be searched), or the security guards are picking people while blindfolded, then the selection process cannot be random. If they are picking every "nth" person, or using any discretion whatsoever, then it cannot be random. Even if they are instructed to pull aside "one out of every 20 people, give or take", when it comes time for the guard to make another selection because 14-16 people have sailed through, and he has three or four people to choose from to meet his next quota, there is always going to be some human nature subtle cue that will make the guard pick the person he picks. Psychology and Sociology dictate that as long as there is human discretion in the selection process, nothing can be truly random. And most importantly, there is nothing wrong with this. No one should want the security process to be truly random.

 

[AngiTN]

I think that people have a skewed view of what "random" really is. Unless the security personnel are taking their guidance from a random number generator (where a computer is solely responsible for indicating which people should be searched), or the security guards are picking people while blindfolded, then the selection process cannot be random. If they are picking every "nth" person, or using any discretion whatsoever, then it cannot be random. Even if they are instructed to pull aside "one out of every 20 people, give or take", when it comes time for the guard to make another selection because 14-16 people have sailed through, and he three or four people to choose from to meet his next quota, there is always going to be some human nature subtle cue that will make the guard pick the person he picks. Psychology and Sociology dictate that as long as there is human discretion in the selection procesd, nothing can be truly random.

I believe that is still a far cry from profiling

 

[JimmyV]

I believe that is still a far cry from profiling

I couldn't agree more. Non-random selection is not the same thing as profiling. But a lot of people here seem to think that Disney is not profiling because the selection process is random. In truth, Disney is not profiling, but the selection process is not random.

 

[LAE7]

I do not think it's random. I have a friend who looks young, has darker olive skin and long curly hair. In short, he looks like he's middle eastern. He's an annual passholder and he gets "randomly selected" every single time he goes through security.

I am a white middle-aged woman with blond curly hair. I am also an annual passholder - and I got selected for screening at every park I entered on my last trip in March...

 

[goofy Jr. 88]

Maybe security could "randomly select" rude guests from entering the park.

 

[lustergirl]

I have been selected a few times and I work in law enforcement. They don't know that of course.

 

[keaster]

My DH got picked twice during our trip last month. He also often gets pulled for secondary screening at airports. He is Caucasian, he is not a big or imposing looking guy. Just the luck of the draw I guess!

 

[THEJOEL]

Headed back home on our annual spring break, this is first of series of reports. I know that a lot has been written about random selection. Here goes our take: We think that Disney's policy is "Randomly" check suspicious people or those that might be concealing something. While you are at it, also "randomly" check everyone, particularly elderly, kids, women - those that look least likely to cause any problems.

I say this because on this recent trip, I was travelling with family - wife and kids. I am the only darker skinned person - family is your typical Midwest white suburban. I think that every time we went through a turnstyle, I was selected for the inspection. Everytime the security people just look you up and down and then make that determination. I think the one time that I escaped selection was when there was a more "suspicious" looking person that got flagged.

It does wear on you to get flagged repeatedly. Not saying that I agree or disagree with the policy, just reporting what we think - again, this is opinion.

Not sure what the right thing - if you are going to make it random, truly make it random and select every "nth" person. Or just check everyone.

We were just at Universal as well - now we did not go through the main gate (entered from the Hard Rock entrance - and they checked everyone. You did not have to have everyone place your stuff onto the baskets - just needed to carry phone and wallet in your hand as you go through the detector. Can't imagine that this would slow entrance to the parks (as you likely will have to wait to get your tickets scanned).

Again, not a big deal, but just a thought -Our opinion: check everyone or make it random. Or leave it the same - but own up and remove the "random" tag. Opinion - no flames please...

I'm the most white dude you will ever meet except I have a "military style" haircut. I'm 6'0 and 210 pounds with an athletic build traveling with my DW and DD.
I was "randomly" selected 6 times. I was picked more times than I wasn't.

 

[dingleberry]

I truly hope they are profiling. To not do so would be security malpractice.

And, yes, I would probably fit a number of the criteria they would be looking for. So I get checked. Big deal.

 

[ps17]

I think that people have a skewed view of what "random" really is. Unless the security personnel are taking their guidance from a random number generator (where a computer is solely responsible for indicating which people should be searched), or the security guards are picking people while blindfolded, then the selection process cannot be random. If they are picking every "nth" person, or using any discretion whatsoever, then it cannot be random. Even if they are instructed to pull aside "one out of every 20 people, give or take", when it comes time for the guard to make another selection because 14-16 people have sailed through, and he has three or four people to choose from to meet his next quota, there is always going to be some human nature subtle cue that will make the guard pick the person he picks. Psychology and Sociology dictate that as long as there is human discretion in the selection process, nothing can be truly random. And most importantly, there is nothing wrong with this. No one should want the security process to be truly random.

You are talking to someone who does this for a living.

I will have to disagree with this assertion, but to go off topic, of course you can't have a perfectly random selection process, but by policy, you can have a degree of randomness. For example, if you wanted 100% screening, you would check everyone. If you wanted 50% screening, you could implement that by flipping a coin on every one that showed up. You could also leverage presumed "random arrival rate" by taking 50 out of every 100, or 500 out of every 1000. You are leveraging the fact that every arrival instance is markovian in nature and thus independent from the preceding 1,2, 3, 50, or 1000 arrivals. And also, while you are sampling a million people, it doesn't matter if you are sampling every other one or the first 500K out of a million. Again, this is presuming that arriving population is random.

If you determined that the arrival process is Gaussian and wanted 1 sigma representation (a single standard deviation), you would sample 66.7%. Or - you could just wag it and by policy say that you want approximately a third of the arriving population. It is still random if you applied a uniform random number generator or picked approximately every third person. Now all that said, arrival rates might not be random because in culture, the kids run ahead of the adults and the gentlemen let the women go first, and there are average family sizes so you can get some aliasing affect if you sampled every N. And I agree that every Nth checking isn't a great idea because a diabolical terrorist can count people, but if he is going to go through great lengths, it is easier to take a heavy weapon to a shopping mall.

So getting back on point, if I am a family of 5 and it was truly random, I would expect that if I showed up every day for say a hundred days, I would be singled out 20 times.

Based on a very limited sample set of a 4 day park hopper, it sure did not feel random to this person.

Also, Disney is the one claiming that it is random - and it well might be, but we will have to disagree on the level of selection that they use to pick out people. I also iterate that I never said that there is anything wrong with it.

Finally, I said in original post that just because you are harmless and selected or with a harmless person that was not selected, this does not preclude Disney from having a policy of applying criteria when they select people to go through.

 

[PetePanMan]

you would need data to analyze to tell if they were profiling or not - not just individual observations.

 

[dpswift]

It seems random to me. My husband was picked at least twice, My 22 year old daughter was picked once with us and my daughter and I were both picked going through the International gateway. I believe that time it was because we walked from Beach Club and the boats were not there.

 

[Skywise]

Typical WASP male here (blonde haired and blue eyed) - I got picked to walk through the scanner EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

[Planogirl]

DS was chosen once and he is quite pale. I think that some people assume too much.

 

[eeyoreandtink]

My DH is as white bread as it gets and was selected multiple times. Some people are looking for a reason to be offended even when none exists. This isn't profiling.

 

[dr2004]

I am for checking everyone….it is a sad world we live in…people need to understand people up to no good are not going to show up dressed like a radical terrorist. Not trying to scare anyone but they are more likely to use a stroller or wheelchair then to show up with a backpack or baggy clothes on a hot day

 

[AngiTN]

You are talking to someone who does this for a living.

I will have to disagree with this assertion, but to go off topic, of course you can't have a perfectly random selection process, but by policy, you can have a degree of randomness. For example, if you wanted 100% screening, you would check everyone. If you wanted 50% screening, you could implement that by flipping a coin on every one that showed up. You could also leverage presumed "random arrival rate" by taking 50 out of every 100, or 500 out of every 1000. You are leveraging the fact that every arrival instance is markovian in nature and thus independent from the preceding 1,2, 3, 50, or 1000 arrivals. And also, while you are sampling a million people, it doesn't matter if you are sampling every other one or the first 500K out of a million. Again, this is presuming that arriving population is random.

If you determined that the arrival process is Gaussian and wanted 1 sigma representation (a single standard deviation), you would sample 66.7%. Or - you could just wag it and by policy say that you want approximately a third of the arriving population. It is still random if you applied a uniform random number generator or picked approximately every third person. Now all that said, arrival rates might not be random because in culture, the kids run ahead of the adults and the gentlemen let the women go first, and there are average family sizes so you can get some aliasing affect if you sampled every N. And I agree that every Nth checking isn't a great idea because a diabolical terrorist can count people, but if he is going to go through great lengths, it is easier to take a heavy weapon to a shopping mall.

So getting back on point, if I am a family of 5 and it was truly random, I would expect that if I showed up every day for say a hundred days, I would be singled out 20 times.

Based on a very limited sample set of a 4 day park hopper, it sure did not feel random to this person.

Also, Disney is the one claiming that it is random - and it well might be, but we will have to disagree on the level of selection that they use to pick out people. I also iterate that I never said that there is anything wrong with it.

Finally, I said in original post that just because you are harmless and selected or with a harmless person that was not selected, this does not preclude Disney from having a policy of applying criteria when they select people to go through.

I will never believe that you were selected for screening based on your skin color. I do not believe anyone is.

 

[robinb]

Of course white folks also get picked. WDW's attendees are 95% white , they can't pick the same 5% of non-whites every time.

My friend gets picked because he looks looks like a middle eastern man with crazy long curly hair and a beard. If you're white and you get picked all the time I'm sure it's because of some other profile security is using.

 

[Kimly]

I'm a token white preppy-ish girl from the Chicago Suburbs ... And last trip a month ago was chosen 6 out of 8 times. My husband nor four kids never did... But I always am chosen for these random checks at the airport too. It's a joke in the family, because every time , I get pulled.

 

[Kimberly9701]

I would hope that they are aware of certain "risk factors" and do take those into account when selecting people. When they haven't identified anyone with those "risk factors" then they just grab people to pull through. We were there for 9 days. We went through security a lot. We were traveling in a group with 7-9 people and people in our group were pulled out a few times but not a lot, I think 4-5 time total. I was pulled aside twice. Both times, in the non-bag line. I'm a white suburban mom with nothing in my pockets and usually one of the kids in tow. It appeared to me, that they were screening someone and then walking back over and grabbing the next person who walked through. I tested this observation one day at Epcot as I had already been pulled out twice and didn't want to do it again. As I started toward the non-bag entrance I noticed that the checker was headed back to grab someone else and it would be me next, I stopped and said something to my son who was with me and waited until two other people approached the line ahead of me and the first one through was randomly selected and we followed on through and continued on. I felt that it was indeed random to the point that whoever was next was screened. Not sure if several people are approaching if they might decide to select someone other than the next person through based on profiling. But I felt from my experience, where the no bag line was concerned, it was completely avoidable with careful observation.

I hope, and think that Disney is a little more smart than that. Because what you said is extremely disconcerting.
Hopefully was just a coincidence!