Just Back. Issue 1: Profiling at Park Entrance..

[Maliboo]

I will challenge your 95% white comment unless you are going to a different WDW than I am. Please tell me where you get that number because a lot of the time I feel that speaking English is the minority on some days.

White people around the world speak languages other than English.

 

[soniam]

I have heard several women on this board say that they had to go through the metal detector. Also, my DH is lily white and had to go through twice in 6 parks days. He did have on cargo shorts though.

 

[Disney Khaleesi]

Selection is random.

From what I gather, you were the only adult male in your party and that may have had something to do with it. However, my friend traveled to Disney and she and her mother were stopped at the entrances for screening almost every time, and her father and brother were only stopped once.

 

[andyman8]

Funny this thread pops up. Back in March I was waiting for some friends who were running late just beyond the Epcot bag check. I popped a squat nearby and started observing the folks passing through the metal detectors. A few days prior I had been listening to a podcast (I think the Disney Dish) where they pondered how "random" the selection was, so I just quietly and discretely observed. Now, I did not have a prime vantage but I could discern decently who had been selected. This was mid-March (the 19th if I remember collectively), so pretty dense spring break crowds but not peak. I don't remember the exact time but it was a little after noon I think.

To be honest, there wasn't some core, discernible pattern in their selection (the frequency certainly seemed random) but there were a few oddities I noticed. Interestingly enough, most of those selected skewed younger (20s-30s) and most were males, though women were certainly selected. Weirdly enough, after every 3-5 (I don't remember the exact number) people or so, I'd see a grandpa or usually grandma selected. The frequency of which was the only thing that honestly seemed planned. Everything else, there was really no order to. That said, if I had to venture a guess, I'd say more of those selected had darker skin (many "seemed" foreign but obviously that's a hard generalization to make) as well. That's not to say that every foreigner or person with dark skin was selected (many, many walked right by), but I did think there was a subtle trend. Obviously, this is anecdotal as I was only there for probably 20 minutes or so, but none the less, I think it would be fair to say there was a little discrete profiling going on interspersed with many efforts to guise it, but some might argue it's a matter of perspective. That said, I don't think you can point to specific instances within your traveling party as solid evidence that such a trend doesn't exist. If the Disney fan community really wants to get a more definitive answer, then we'll need to send Len Testa or someone similar to do a more scientific evaluation of their security selection. Needless to say, unfortunately, I've seen it much, much worse at other places. Anyways, and I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I think everyone should have to go through a metal detector, like at HHN or many standard amusement parks. Needless to say, unfortunately, I've seen it much, much worse at other.

 

[andyman8]

the only way that this debate will end is when Disney makes everyone go through the metal detectors, Universal has about 15 metal detectors at their entrance to CityWalk and the parks, I never wait for more than 5 minutes to get through them, even with the bag check.
It's silly to me that they would have these "security" measures in place but there's no one checking bags to go through the TTC, you can basically board the monorail at TTC without a check, go to MK, or the resorts or Epcot on them, without anyone checking...
At the parks they have undercover people profiling, you can see them hanging around the bag check area (before or after it) with a baseball cap, dark sunglasses and an ear piece, they had them for years now
They don't have metal detectors for CM entrances, I'm not sure about scanning trucks but I seriously doubt it.
I'm a 42 hispanic female and an AP that goes to the parks at least once a week, and when they started the "random" metal detectors I got stopped every time, for the first month, after that I haven't been stopped again...statistically that doesn't make sense

I agree with all of that, especially the bolded. They need to address those areas if they are really serious about this.

FWIW, one of the few times (perhaps the only?) that there has been an actual bomb on Disney property was because of a CM. It happened not long after the resort opened. Evidently, a disgruntled employee had planted one and threatened to detonate it outside of Frontierland I think in a backstage area, so the fact that they have not addressed this also surprises me.

 

[gap2368]

The fact that the security guards are stopping lots of middle class white people, or grandmothers, etc.... does not mean they aren't profiling. And if the stops are intended to be random there would almost certainly be some bias shown if we looked at a large data set. However do the guards have a formula they are following? Is it just every nth person? Is it random? Are they allowed to make judgement calls? Does anyone outside of Disney know?

the out side company that was there training people one of the trainers told me that Disney would let them know every morning ( or beginning of the shift ) that between every 5 and 20 seconds to pick someone. so this is what she would do and go form one side to the other and sound in her head and the first person she was was the one they would pick. I DO not know if they are still doing it this way or not as all of the people have moved on. and the if you walk through the no bag line you will not be picket is a myth

 

[BuckeyeBama]

One other item to note about the random screenings - our family figured out how to avoid them altogether on this last trip. All you have to do is pull over to the side immediately after getting your bag checked (within a few feet, and not having separated yourself from the table area). Pretend to be securing your bags while not obviously looking up. During this time, security will be looking for someone exiting the bag check area for screening. Once they select one and begin walking toward the tents - time to move out. Worked for us flawlessly, and we all wear cargo shorts and are often "randomly" selected.

Their resources are limited, so use that limit to get around it altogether. And if I can figure this out just trying to save a minute, someone really trying to get past them would have figured it out much sooner.

 

[GPC0321]

It seems to me they just check the next person they see coming after they've finished the last ones.

This is what it seemed like to me. When we were there over Easter, neither my mother or I were ever picked, and we went in and out of the parks a lot more than my father. He always went through the "no bag" line and got picked once at Epcot. He's extremely white and 73 years old.
I watched the security guys and tried to figure out how they were choosing and it sure looked random. Almost like, "Okay, I need to grab a person, this one will do..." and they start trying to make eye contact, smiling, and politely asking the guest to come with them.

My mom got stopped for some survey thing one time. Other than that, we were not bothered.

 

[jeepnjudy]

While you are at it, also "randomly" check everyone, particularly elderly, kids, women - those that look least likely to cause any problems.

Not to shatter your image of terrorists but they are NOT all men. Women and children have also been used as suicide bombers.

 

[Slapshot1188]

Not to shatter your image of terrorists but they are NOT all men. Women and children have also been used as suicide bombers.

Simple resource question:

I have 3 types of items I make. All with equal demand, cost and profit margins:

• Item one has a 10% chance of having a defect
• Item two has a 2% chance of a defect
• Item three has a .001% chance of a defect

How should I allocate my quality assurance time?

 

[GATORinaZ28]

I'd rather they profile AND also do random checks.

 

[JoWilly]

White people around the world speak languages other than English.

While that is correct, they seem to be in the minority at least when I've traveled as an AP several times a year over the last 11 years.

 

[Boski]

Simple resource question:

I have 3 types of items I make. All with equal demand, cost and profit margins:

• Item one has a 10% chance of having a defect
• Item two has a 2% chance of a defect
• Item three has a .001% chance of a defect

How should I allocate my quality assurance time?

Don't make a bad product to begin with?

 

[Robo]

the out side company that was there training people one of the trainers told me that Disney would let them know every morning ( or beginning of the shift ) that between every 5 and 20 seconds to pick someone.
so this is what she would do and go form one side to the other and sound in her head and the first person she was was the one they would pick.
I DO not know if they are still doing it this way or not as all of the people have moved on. and the if you walk through the no bag line you will not be picket is a myth

Could you please rewrite the bolded sentence?

Here's my stab at what I think you meant:
"So this is what she would do, and go from one side to the other, and count in her head,
and the first person she saw was the one they would pick."

(How did I do?)

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Don't make a bad product to begin with?

The analogy is legit - Disney has limited security resources. They need to use them wisely or the effort is almost entirely wasted, turning it into the "security theater" talked about in this and other threads.

Profiling works. It doesn't "feel" warm and fuzzy, but do you want your security to be warm and fuzzy, or do you want it to be effective? You really can't have it both ways with limited resources.

 

[yulilin3]

While that is correct, they seem to be in the minority at least when I've traveled as an AP several times a year over the last 11 years.

like I said before, maybe you are traveling when it's holiday season for people from South America or other countries...

 

[Boski]

They are getting $11.75 for a turkey leg, surely they can pop for some additional security? I can get a whole bird for that price!

 

[THEJOEL]

Maybe that's what we have in common then. I'm 6'1 218 pounds amateur weight lifter and ex military. I guess it could be the way we carry ourselves, but if that's true what a poor selection criteria.

Similar build and background.
How ironic.

 

[*3*Mouseketeers]

When we were there a couple weeks ago I got tagged 3 times and my wife once. We are very Caucasian, on the older side, and carried no bags. So nope I don't think they are profiling anyone unless they think our type of folks are the "usual threat". To be honest I have a sneaking opinion that they are specifically targeting the opposite of what would normally be considered the "usual suspects" just to show that they aren't profiling.

See, I wouldn't mind being picked at all normally, but if I ever make it to WDW when I can finally go in without a bag, and finally be able to skip the bag check line, I would be MAD if I had to go through the detector!

 

[JoWilly]

like I said before, maybe you are traveling when it's holiday season for people from South America or other countries...

I understand your thought but to explain as a passholder we go up to 5 times a year for a week at a time, so I highly doubt I am that attuned to south American holidays.