Just started exploring DVC

[tguz]

I see some contracts out there for Vero Beach at $58/point for 150 points. That would obviously be a cheap entry point to DVC but I have a question. Since we would be using the points at Disney World, would we have trouble finding accomodations at 7 months for Summer for a room that sleeps 4? I would hate to buy DVC and have points that we have trouble using. At the moment, we are not flexible as the travel time (kids/teacher) needs to be during the Summer. I hear the studio rooms go really fast. Thanks.

 

[lovin'fl]

Studios are tough to get at 7 months anymore. You likely would be able to get a 1BR. So you need to buy enough points for that. Good news is that summer time is a less busy time for DVC (basically Sept-mid Jan is busy DVC time due to Food and Wine, the MK parties, Thanksgiving, Xmas and then the marathon in Jan...plus it is a lower point cost time too and everyone loves low points cost times and room types hence studios booking up first). Another issue for buying Vero or Hilton Head is the dues are way higher at those and eventually the money you saved to buy in is lost with paying the higher dues. It used to be figured at around 9-10 years the savings is gone. Some suggest buying at the beach resorts only if you plan to resell in about 10 years (or less) AND/OR you plan to stay at the beach resort most of the time. We own HHI and we use those mostly (about 98% of the time) at HHI. Buying at SSR or OKW would get you a lower buy in cost plus lower dues AND a guarantee to stay on WDW property by booking your home resort at 11 months. SSR has longer contract life so buy in cost spread over more years is a better deal. OKW extended contracts are good too for more years.

 

[Philsfan77]

I think you'd be fine with that approach. Summer isn't as busy for DVC purposes.

Just glancing through availability right now. You can get a 1-BR today for the upcoming June, July and August pretty easily for just about any week at the following resorts:

SSR (Saratoga Springs)
OKW (Old Key West)
BWV (Boardwalk)
BRV (Boulder Ridge)
AKV (Animal Kingdom)

Copper Creek and the monorail resorts have spotty availability this close, but you can get 2-3 nights consecutively at them in a 1BR most weeks or piece together a split stay involving them. Given current availability at 7-months out you should feel comfortable getting a room somewhere on property.

 

[tguz]

Studios are tough to get at 7 months anymore. You likely would be able to get a 1BR. So you need to buy enough points for that. Good news is that summer time is a less busy time for DVC (basically Sept-mid Jan is busy DVC time due to Food and Wine, the MK parties, Thanksgiving, Xmas and then the marathon in Jan...plus it is a lower point cost time too and everyone loves low points cost times and room types hence studios booking up first). Another issue for buying Vero or Hilton Head is the dues are way higher at those and eventually the money you saved to buy in is lost with paying the higher dues. It used to be figured at around 9-10 years the savings is gone. Some suggest buying at the beach resorts only if you plan to resell in about 10 years (or less) AND/OR you plan to stay at the beach resort most of the time. We own HHI and we use those mostly (about 98% of the time) at HHI. Buying at SSR or OKW would get you a lower buy in cost plus lower dues AND a guarantee to stay on WDW property by booking your home resort at 11 months. SSR has longer contract life so buy in cost spread over more years is a better deal. OKW extended contracts are good too for more years.

Good points. Thank you.

 

[chalee94]

1 - Fall is the busy period for DVC visits. Summer is typically a bit more flexible.

2 - if you had searched for "using Vero Beach at WDW", most of us don't recommend it.

If you decide to try to visit in the fall, VB might not get you anything.

VB dues are much higher than other DVC resorts. You will quickly balance out the cheaper up front costs with higher annual dues.

VB nearly got crushed the last time a hurricane swept through. If VB takes major damage, then you are on the hook for whatever insurance doesn't cover. If insurance rates go up, that further increases your dues annually.

If the up front savings is worth it to you, then roll the dice. But most of us would recommend buying SSR if you plan to go to WDW and don't care where you stay.

 

[tguz]

I think you'd be fine with that approach. Summer isn't as busy for DVC purposes.

Just glancing through availability right now. You can get a 1-BR today for the upcoming June, July and August pretty easily for just about any week at the following resorts:

SSR (Saratoga Springs)
OKW (Old Key West)
BWV (Boardwalk)
BRV (Boulder Ridge)
AKV (Animal Kingdom)

Copper Creek and the monorail resorts have spotty availability this close, but you can get 2-3 nights consecutively at them in a 1BR most weeks or piece together a split stay involving them. Given current availability at 7-months out you should feel comfortable getting a room somewhere on property.

Thanks. Certainly a lot to digest before jumping in.

 

[Philsfan77]

https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...-studios-1-bedrooms-june-2018-update.3689931/

This link gives a rough breakdown of whats available in terms of studio's and 1 bedrooms.

I would agree with the above poster though...SSR is probably a better buy-in. Cost more upfront, but overtime save money due to maintenance fees. Along with his points...VB expires in 2042, SSR is good until 2054.

 

[lovin'fl]

VB nearly got crushed the last time a hurricane swept through. If VB takes major damage, then you are on the hook for whatever insurance doesn't cover. If insurance rates go up, that further increases your dues annually.

If the up front savings is worth it to you, then roll the dice. But most of us would recommend buying SSR if you plan to go to WDW and don't care where you stay.

To expand on this, our HHI got hit with hurricane a few years back and our dues have increased horrendously the past 3 years. We had to pay some assessment due to the renovations needed due to the damage from hurricane. We considered selling and did list our HHI for 3 months but then went this Jan and remembered why we love HHI so much. We live 5 hours drive from there so we really can utilize that resort pretty easily. But we could get a beach front hotel (our DS works for Marriott so we really can get deals) for less than our annual dues (and HHI is not beach front). But we love the resort itself and all the staff there and we have only 125 points so it's not breaking the bank.

 

[kniquy]

Since we would be using the points at Disney World, would we have trouble finding accomodations at 7 months for Summer for a room that sleeps 4? I would hate to buy DVC and have points that we have trouble using.

Summer is the easiest time to book - many people don't want to travel in the heat of the summer and the points are higher than compared to the end of the year. So booking a studio somewhere on property at 7 months would be fairly easy.

Now on to the bigger issue. Buying vero because it appears to be cheaper isn't a good financial move. You could do some simple math here:
Buy Vero 150 points @ $58 per point $8700 (+ closing costs) your initial MF for 2019 would be $1421.49
At an estimated increase of 4% per year - at 10 years out would be ~$2100.

For comparison if you bought SSR 150 points @ $110 pp MF in 2019 $960.62
An estimate increase of 4% per year - 10 years out would be $~1475

Over time the larger cost of ownership are the MF. Another risk factor is that the resort in on the coast and could be hit by a hurricane - this situation could cause an increase in MF for storm damage special assessments and a larger increase in MF. This did happen to HHI just a couple years ago.

There will be times when you might want to take one of your trips during a school vacation, but if you don't own on property it might be more difficult to book something.

The motto is - buy where you want to stay or at least where you don't mind staying. If you have no desire or plans to stay at Vero then don't buy there thinking it is a cheap buy in because over the long term it would cost you more. The best bang for your buck on property is SSR, one of the lower buy ins and the lowest MF.

 

[gscott8075]

We just sold our HHI points after 18 great years. One thing everyone on this board preaches - buy where you want to stay. SSR or OKW are the least expensive. Look at the VB dues. $9.50 per point - and that will continue to escalate year after year. If you want to stay at WDW, buy there. We typically stayed at HHI and it worked out well for us.

 

[ClosetDisMom]

https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...-studios-1-bedrooms-june-2018-update.3689931/

This link gives a rough breakdown of whats available in terms of studio's and 1 bedrooms.

I would agree with the above poster though...SSR is probably a better buy-in. Cost more upfront, but overtime save money due to maintenance fees. Along with his points...VB expires in 2042, SSR is good until 2054.

We are teachers with kids, too. We bought SSR resale for the above bolded points in 2017. We won't mind staying at SSR. We are trying OKW in Sept - because everything else is booked and it was cheap points. In fact, for Sept I am happy I got OKW studio. When my husband (who is a math teacher) and I ran the numbers, I mentioned HHI and VB as possibilities for the same reasons as the OP. However, when we ran numbers (and I looked up stuff on here), it became very apparent that the cost of MF would out weigh the initial buy in if we kept the contract for as long as we planned. HHI and VB dues are HIGH and I don't see them tapering off any time soon. SSR will also outlast the impending chaos when the 2042 resorts expire, so we will know then what to expect while still enjoying all the resorts left standing... Plus, we'll be 74 then... so... I don't think we'll care if it just goes away...

 

[rg35]

Buy where you want to stay.

VB has high dues and there is also risk for special assessments resulting from coastal storm damage. Over time you'll wind up paying more even though the initial cost is lower.

 

[adamr1982]

Just remember, this is a pricey and long term investment, so do your homework and make sure you will be visiting Disney for the next 50 years. On average, your dues will double every 15 years or so. This means that even after you pay off the initial cost of the points, you are still paying Disney for your room in the yearly fees. if you start by paying $1400 a year in dues now, then that means in 15 years it will be almost $3,000. In another 15 years it will be $6,000 a year and then in another 15 it will be $12,000 a year. As an example, this is what 200 points at Copper Creek will cost you over the course of 50 years.

200 Points = $38,489.3 (If you pay cash up front)
Initial Monthly Dues = $1485.96 (5% average increase every year)
Monthly dues by year 50 = $16,228.66
Total monthly dues paid over 50 years = $309,596.79
Monthly dues plus initial investment = $348,086.02
Average price paid per year of ownership = $8,702.15

So, ask yourself. Will you be spending $8,702.15 per year for a room only at Disney? Granted, prices of rooms will go up in the future, just make sure you are making a wise investment.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Buy VB points if you want to stay at VB, especially if you want to stay there during summer months. Buy a resort at WDW if that is where you want yo stay most of the time.

 

[crvetter]

Just remember, this is a pricey and long term investment, so do your homework and make sure you will be visiting Disney for the next 50 years. On average, your dues will double every 15 years or so. This means that even after you pay off the initial cost of the points, you are still paying Disney for your room in the yearly fees. if you start by paying $1400 a year in dues now, then that means in 15 years it will be almost $3,000. In another 15 years it will be $6,000 a year and then in another 15 it will be $12,000 a year. As an example, this is what 200 points at Copper Creek will cost you over the course of 50 years.

200 Points = $38,489.3 (If you pay cash up front)
Initial Monthly Dues = $1485.96 (5% average increase every year)
Monthly dues by year 50 = $16,228.66
Total monthly dues paid over 50 years = $309,596.79
Monthly dues plus initial investment = $348,086.02
Average price paid per year of ownership = $8,702.15

So, ask yourself. Will you be spending $8,702.15 per year for a room only at Disney? Granted, prices of rooms will go up in the future, just make sure you are making a wise investment.

Your analysis is using future dollars, so that is an average of $8,702.15 per year of future dollar expenditures; if dues increase 5%, with an average 2-3% inflation rate it's more like $3.5-4k a year. Now DVC can get more lucrative if you are buying to stay DVC and could afford Deluxe resorts and would have stayed there without DVC; the reason of for this is the DVC MF will always be less on average than cash rooms at the Deluxe resorts so you could reinvest that yearly savings year over year which adds up quickly.

My suggestion is always look at DVC purchase with two different scenarios:

DVC Rooms

• Assume you pay cash (or build in financing costs if not)
• Assume an inflation of dues
• Assume an inflation rate of the economy
• Discount all Cashflows back by the inflation rate of the economy to get the average yearly cost in today's dollars, if desired

Cash Rooms

• I use 15-30% off rack rates depending on when I can travel, utilizing the equivalent number of nights my contract gets me
• I assume an inflation rate of rooms. On average, this will be equal to or greater than the inflation rate of MF, if not then Disney is eating into their profits long term on the rooms which isn't likely something the shareholders would be happy about. There maybe times this isn't true because of a bad economy and Disney accepts a lower profit but in general Disney will always want it's profit margins to increase. Also since MF are operation costs not profits too leads to this. This unique feature of MF inflation being less than or equal to Cash room inflation and general inflation is why the direct purchase (and resale prices) of DVC have risen historically.
• Use the same inflation rate of the economy
• Discount all Cashflows back by the inflation rate of the economy to get the average yearly cost in today's dollars, if desired

The last piece of the puzzle is that your yearly outlays on the Cash Rooms is going to be higher than that of DVC, which for a proper comparison you want the cash outlays to be the same yearly. Since I was planning on always staying Deluxe I'm able to reinvest the Cost of the Deluxe Room less my yearly MF. This will compound to be much greater than if I invested the my DVC initial buyin. There is a point at which this strategy will break even, for me I actually bought CCV so very similar to the analysis above but this does have me effectively being able to dump DVC for 0 in 7 years and I will be ahead if I had bought cash rooms, which is the important aspect of DVC--you have to be going to Disney at a consistent basis to realize any savings. Though its possible to do the entire thing assuming two different assumptions on when you would go to Disney also DVC yearly and cash bi-yearly.

Though I do admit I took the attitude of saving money off of something I was going to buy anyways. If the strategy people have for DVC is to upgrade accommodations (moderate to Deluxe, etc) then they should put the cash room side to be that accommodation type and normalize the yearly cash flows between cash and DVC to see what the true savings or cost of the upgrade would be. Whatever side has the smaller yearly cashflow has an income stream that could be invested (which with moderate could be the cash side and for value will be the cash side).

Though to the OP's question you did highlight very importantly that MF are the most significant cost to DVC. And buying VB to save money in the long run isn't a great strategy because of this. Over the entire cost of the contract VB with the intention to use at the 7 month window will only be cheaper using VB points at BCV, BWV, and DRR than their respective home resort points. And VB points will never allow you to stay at BCV consistently and BWV you might get rooms more consistently but it will still be quite off. Of course DRR is not even in question because of the restrictions.

I would say to the OP if there intention is to go economical OKW, AKV, and SSR are the most economical when you consider price per point and home vacation charts. Those are more economical than buying VB to stay at any resort at WDW as highlighted above.

 

[tamu91]

Your plan sounds reasonable but don't forget about the maintenance fees. You can't beat $58/points to buy in but Vero tends to have a high dues compared to other DVC resorts and over time, that will definitely add up. About availability, studio units go fast but if you're flexible about property choices, you should be ok 7 months out. I've never had any issues securing my reservation at 7 months out, even during holiday season but flexibility is key.

 

[Philsfan77]

Just remember, this is a pricey and long term investment, so do your homework and make sure you will be visiting Disney for the next 50 years. On average, your dues will double every 15 years or so. This means that even after you pay off the initial cost of the points, you are still paying Disney for your room in the yearly fees. if you start by paying $1400 a year in dues now, then that means in 15 years it will be almost $3,000. In another 15 years it will be $6,000 a year and then in another 15 it will be $12,000 a year. As an example, this is what 200 points at Copper Creek will cost you over the course of 50 years.

200 Points = $38,489.3 (If you pay cash up front)
Initial Monthly Dues = $1485.96 (5% average increase every year)
Monthly dues by year 50 = $16,228.66
Total monthly dues paid over 50 years = $309,596.79
Monthly dues plus initial investment = $348,086.02
Average price paid per year of ownership = $8,702.15

So, ask yourself. Will you be spending $8,702.15 per year for a room only at Disney? Granted, prices of rooms will go up in the future, just make sure you are making a wise investment.

Maybe I made a mistake somewhere but my average price paid per year of ownership running your numbers was $6,961.72 (even a rough round up to $350,000/50 years is $7000 even). I get the premise of your point, just wanted to clarify the numbers.

 

[tamu91]

Look, I've seen folks do this math since I've became a DVC member in 2004. I'm not an advocate but a member. I purchased a BRV resale back in 2004 at $68/pt. and almost didn't go through with it because of math like this. My job is about managing budgets so I know. Just remember 1 simple rule in buying a timeshare, are you going to use it? If you're going to visit WDW on a "regular" basis and can afford the cost, then I think you have your answer. For us, buying into DVC was a great decision. We have enjoyed WDW so much more, memories we have built are truly priceless.

 

[holden]

I know others have said this, but it is important to buy where you'd like to stay. We book our WDW trips 11 months in advance at our home resort BLT. We chose BLT for its proximity to MK and the extra bathroom in the 1BR. At the 7 month mark, we sometimes try to move to a different resort. So far we've been able to do that, but if we couldn't move we'd be happy with BLT. I would hate to have bought at a resort we don't enjoy (SSR comes to mind) and have to stay there because no other resorts were available at 7 months.

Also, think about what your travel plans in the future might be like. We are now at the point where we book a 1BR minimum, but a 2BR if we have enough points. I would not have expected that when we first bought DVC. As our kids have gotten older, extra space (and bathrooms) have become more important.