Lack of crowds and Disney's response

[BigCheese]

Curious, what is special about the 3rd week of July, vs the first two weeks of July, say?

It gives some time to let things settle. Were lower crowds after week one due to overhype and guests staying away because of the overhype? Was it due in most part to the Deluxe AP blockout? Will guests return now knowing the parks aren’t overcrowded? Week two is a difficult week to measure the normal guest response because it’s a holiday week so attendance numbers could be artificially boosted because of it. But by the end of the third week a clearer picture should emerge helping answer the questions from week one. If week three is the same as week one it wouldn’t be shocking if Deluxe APs were unblocked in some capacity. Note- when I said third week in July I misspoke ( should have been third week after GE opening without reservations).

 

[BrianL]

Yoda did, but there was theatrics in the delivery...when he lifted the X-wing and spoke to Obi-wan everyone felt like a jack-***!! Right?? Where was that moment with Luke?

Well, uh, wouldn't that be when he force-projected across the Galaxy to fight Kylo Ren and buy time for the Resistance to escape? I mean, I understand that you didn't like the general storyline, but Luke did indeed have that moment to prove he was still awesomely powerful.

 

[poptart90]

Well, uh, wouldn't that be when he force-projected across the Galaxy to fight Kylo Ren and buy time for the Resistance to escape? I mean, I understand that you didn't like the general storyline, but Luke did indeed have that moment to prove he was still awesomely powerful.

True. You are correct. However, I think it would’ve meant more if Mark Hamill had known he was “dying” after the force projection. It was as much of a shock to the audience as it was the actor...and it showed, IMO.

 

[BrianL]

True. You are correct. However, I think it would’ve meant more if Mark Hamill had known he was “dying” after the force projection. It was as much of a shock to the audience as it was the actor...and it showed, IMO.

Well, certianly Last Jedi was meant to subvert expectations, obviously a controversial move. I don't really have a huge problem with that, though apparently many did. Still, I'd reserve judgement until Ep. IX comes out and see if it all falls into place. It seems like they are making an effort to make it do so.

 

[katyringo]

We are here now. The ride wait times are deceiving. The park is busy. It’s not empty at all.

 

[gottalovepluto]

I don't disagree with your post, but I think 'tanked' is a bit of an exaggeration. M-Th last week was extremely light. Friday-Sunday the parks were busy. But yes, as a whole, attendance is most definitely well below Disney's projections and below average attendance values for this time of year in the past. But tanked? That's hyperbole.




This 100%. Disney Imagineering blew it on ROTR and TPTB wanted to open GE 'early' in order to start earning revenue from their new land as soon as possible. For the most part, I think they are in the short term because of the early revenue on their high margin products (Oga's, Savi's, Droid Depot, Dok's), due to the 'newness' of the land, but, they also overplayed their hand in the long run. No offense to Deluxe AP holders, but I personally love that they're blocked right now. However, I believe Deluxe makes up the largest share of APs at DLR, and I think the third week of July is going to tell the tale and we could see the Deluxe AP's potentially get unblocked before August. But the bigger issue has always been pricing and value in the grand scheme of things. That's the problem. I think they've reached a breaking point and even if the flex pass gets Disney a ton of new AP holders, it won't make up for the amount of time Deluxe holders are in the parks relative to the price increases that this tier in particular has endured over the past few years. You can only take away so much before you reach a breaking point, and when they took away parking and nearly doubled the price of Deluxe APs between 2015 and today, you can't blame people for not renewing.

On a side note I personally feel FOP and Pandora as a whole are overrated and when we're at WDW we visit that land once for maybe a couple of hours and don't spend money there, but, I can appreciate Pandora as a well themed and beautiful land, and it is impressive for what it is.

All that said, I want to bring up an issue that I haven't seen on these boards (which I personally and fully believe contributes to lower crowds) and that's the 'minimal' offerings Disney currently has for the Lion King. I know, they have the Tale of the Lion King (a lovely and well produced show, but difficult to last through in an area with zero shade), and a small merchandise booth as well as the AP corner, but this is the 25th anniversary of what many still believe is the pinnacle of the Disney Renaissance. Plus, they're releasing their "live action" adaptation this year. Crowds would be flooding DLR if they had a lot more offerings. Character meet & greets? Some special food offerings? More merchandise celebrating its 25th anniversary? Sneak preview? C'mon Disney. Yeah, it probably wouldn't shift the balance of the crowds, but I needed to rant about TLK somewhere.

TLK rant *mind blown* ...you are SO right. The parks really lack TLK in general outside of using their images for conservation programs at WDW. Where’s my Lion King ride for goodness sakes?! I would love that! Or, alas, even the easier offerings like sneak peaks and character meet & greats? I don’t even want to imagine how long the line to meet Simba would be!

 

[gottalovepluto]

We are here now. The ride wait times are deceiving. The park is busy. It’s not empty at all.

How much longer on average are you waiting in lines over what is posted?

 

[katyringo]

How much longer on average are you waiting in lines over what is posted?

Well we fast passed everything today except Jessie’s carousel and Pixar pal around. We waited what wa spotted.

Hubby and son were able to ride gadgets a few times in a row.

What I mean is idk where all these people are going, but they aren’t waiting in ride lines. Walkways and tables and benches are FULL... but then wait times aren’t that bad. It’s weird.

 

[twitch]

I do wonder how much we are unaware of the effect of Project Stardust. We see that lines are low by looking at the app. Even people in the parks might comment on low crowd density.

But what we don’t see is that there are more rides operating at full capacity. There are no refurbs or closed space (except for Bugs Land/ Stark Enterprises). Walkways are wider than they’ve ever been. Stroller size has been limited and stroller corrals have been moved out of the way. While we might complain about it, even the Main St. Cinema has space for shoppers to browse. A new ride quietly opened on the other side of the park. 14 new acres have been added for guests to explore and hang out. Even “Aladdin’s Oasis” is actually usable space.

In other words, there may be lots more people in the parks than us armchair quarterbacks are guessing, simply because Project Stardust did exactly what it was supposed to, and it did it so subtly that we are blissfully unaware.

 

[gottalovepluto]

I do wonder how much we are unaware of the effect of Project Stardust. We see that lines are low by looking at the app. Even people in the parks might comment on low crowd density.

But what we don’t see is that there are more rides operating at full capacity. There are no refurbs or closed space (except for Bugs Land/ Stark Enterprises). Walkways are wider than they’ve ever been. Stroller size has been limited and stroller corrals have been moved out of the way. While we might complain about it, even the Main St. Cinema has space for shoppers to browse. A new ride quietly opened on the other side of the park. 14 new acres have been added for guests to explore and hang out. Even “Aladdin’s Oasis” is actually usable space.

In other words, there may be lots more people in the parks than us armchair quarterbacks are guessing, simply because Project Stardust did exactly what it was supposed to, and it did it so subtly that we are blissfully unaware.

I would be more willing to buy that argument if the hotels didn’t have almost any room you could want on almost any day you could want still available for summer on site and if there wasn’t chatter about the area hotels suffering as well. If hotel attendance is down, park attendance is down. And the last minute moves on Disney’s part (unblocking CMs, $99 all AP offer, CM hours being cut back) make it even harder to believe. There was a photo on another site of the CMs last week stationed at SWGE entrances for Boarding Pass implementation who looked bored out of their skulls- Disney didn’t pay them to stand there for kicks and giggles. They literally thought so many people would show up they would have to institute the Boarding Pass program for more than opening day.

 

[twitch]

I would be more willing to buy that argument if the hotels didn’t have almost any room you could want on almost any day you could want still available for summer on site and if there wasn’t chatter about the area hotels suffering as well. If hotel attendance is down, park attendance is down. And the last minute moves on Disney’s part (unblocking CMs, $99 all AP offer, CM hours being cut back) make it even harder to believe. There was a photo on another site of the CMs last week stationed at SWGE entrances for Boarding Pass implementation who looked bored out of their skulls- Disney didn’t pay them to stand there for kicks and giggles. They literally thought so many people would show up they would have to institute the Boarding Pass program for more than opening day.

All valid points. Clearly the land is not performing as well as Disney had hoped/expected. I’m just not sure the sky is falling as much as many think.

But I’m just armchair quarterbacking from home like many others... we didn’t renew our AP (it was SoCal Select, so even if we had, we wouldn’t be hanging out at DL), so it will be a while before we visit DL again.

 

[danielocha30]

let’s stop pretending is not about their outrageous prices. Disney inflated all his rates, anticipating Star Wars fans will pay and they haven’t. Disney Orlando is panicking also, there is plenty of rooms for the fall. Disney might hit their own recession soon, at Orlando it can cost you $200 a night on a Value resort aka Disney Motel with all the new parking charges, taxes and inflated rates, all while property around them
offer the same accommodation for half that price. And Disney Orlando have another problem with the new Harry Potter ride and new hotel at Universal.

 

[Captainkidd76]

let’s stop pretending is not about their outrageous prices. Disney inflated all his rates, anticipating Star Wars fans will pay and they haven’t. Disney Orlando is panicking also, there is plenty of rooms for the fall. Disney might hit their own recession soon, at Orlando it can cost you $200 a night on a Value resort aka Disney Motel with all the new parking charges, taxes and inflated rates, all while property around them
offer the same accommodation for half that price. And Disney Orlando have another problem with the new Harry Potter ride and new hotel at Universal.

Universal has its own problems with Hagrid's right now. And the new hotel is aimed at nobody other than people who want to visit Universal cheap.

Disney's mistake (on both coasts) is assuming there is no ceiling. There is. And they have reached it for many familes. We're going next week, but for the 1st time in 30 years, we're staying off site. I was able to get a 2 bedroom villa for the same money as a Disney Value Resort and it's the same distance from the parks. Only downside is we have to rent a car. But we were going to do that anyway since we're going to other parks besides Disney.

 

[danielocha30]

Universal has its own problems with Hagrid's right now. And the new hotel is aimed at nobody other than people who want to visit Universal cheap.

Disney's mistake (on both coasts) is assuming there is no ceiling. There is. And they have reached it for many familes. We're going next week, but for the 1st time in 30 years, we're staying off site. I was able to get a 2 bedroom villa for the same money as a Disney Value Resort and it's the same distance from the parks. Only downside is we have to rent a car. But we were going to do that anyway since we're going to other parks besides Disney.

Everyone wants to do the parks cheap, and as a Disney veteran you have to agree Disney is overcharging at everything $45 for preferred parking anyone?. We are FL residents and AP holders and even with those discount I’m better staying off property. You will enjoy Disney the same and might even like it better off-site. Have a great trip!

 

[EmJ]

Universal has its own problems with Hagrid's right now. And the new hotel is aimed at nobody other than people who want to visit Universal cheap.

Disney's mistake (on both coasts) is assuming there is no ceiling. There is. And they have reached it for many familes. We're going next week, but for the 1st time in 30 years, we're staying off site. I was able to get a 2 bedroom villa for the same money as a Disney Value Resort and it's the same distance from the parks. Only downside is we have to rent a car. But we were going to do that anyway since we're going to other parks besides Disney.

I agree with the issues on Hagrid's coaster, but I am not sure I understand your point with respect to the new Universal hotel. Why wouldn't the availability of low cost resort accommodations 5 minutes from Universal's gates be a factor for tourists deciding which park to visit or stay at? Especially considering Universal is almost always running some sort of ticket promo (right now, it's buy-2-days-get-2-days).

 

[MillauFr]

Disney's mistake (on both coasts) is assuming there is no ceiling. There is. And they have reached it for many familes.

They haven't gotten close to the ceiling. The parks are getting more packed every year even with the increasing prices. The prices were the same back in April and and May before Star Wars opened. There were massive crowds. The perception of even worse crowds is keeping people away more than increasing prices.

 

[mamapenguin]

They haven't gotten close to the ceiling. The parks are getting more packed every year even with the increasing prices. The prices were the same back in April and and May before Star Wars opened. There were massive crowds. The perception of even worse crowds is keeping people away more than increasing prices.

Wasn’t there a spring ticket special that worked out to about $70 a day?

 

[HairyChest]

Im a HUGE star wars fan. Huge disney fan. I live close to the parks and have been to galaxys edge twice. Once during the reservation period and once last weekend.
I got BORED. I dont feel like i need to go back. I do feel like it for pandora. I do feel like that for hogsmeade.
I dont feel like i lived my starwars dreams. Seeing the falcon was amazing and i sat there and stared at it for a long time. Being in the falcon and the cockpit also was amazing. But thats it.
Ive always wanted to meet luke and han , yoda, id geek out at that.
Also, if they wouldve played Leias theme as the falcon is revealed, that would make it such an emotionaly connected experience.
I know its a new land but it would have been a constant must do if they had made places from the classics i new and loved.
This is why im not adding to the crowds. Its nice to visit and see while im at disneyland, but its not a reason to make a trip there for.

 

[DLgal]

They haven't gotten close to the ceiling. The parks are getting more packed every year even with the increasing prices. The prices were the same back in April and and May before Star Wars opened. There were massive crowds. The perception of even worse crowds is keeping people away more than increasing prices.

April and May are always packed, every year. Part of that is Spring break, the other MAJOR parts are: So Cal 3 day discount ticket offer, Grad Nights, and school field trips.

How often do you visit the parks? You seem to make a lot of statements that contradict what is actually happening there. I visit every week, all year long. I see the crowds ebb and flow. The only times the parks are "packed" is on days Deluxe and So Cal APs can go, weekdays at the end of the school year, and weekends during the festivals at DCA. Also, weekdays and Sundays during Halloween and Christmas season. Saturdays, year round, are usually dramatically less crowded, unless the SO CAL ticket offer is in effect. The crowds have gotten quite predictable when you look at those factors.

Right now, the parks are noticeably uncrowded. It's not just the perception, it's a fact. Disney is in damage control mode right now, trying to entice people to come, while reducing staffing levels. The CM and AP bring a friend offer is step 1. The fact that those were implemented so quickly shows they are not happy with guest numbers right now. I don't know if you are local and if you use social media, but there has been a noticeable uptick in advertising for DLR.

 

[BrianL]

Im a HUGE star wars fan. Huge disney fan. I live close to the parks and have been to galaxys edge twice. Once during the reservation period and once last weekend.
I got BORED. I dont feel like i need to go back. I do feel like it for pandora. I do feel like that for hogsmeade.
I dont feel like i lived my starwars dreams. Seeing the falcon was amazing and i sat there and stared at it for a long time. Being in the falcon and the cockpit also was amazing. But thats it.
Ive always wanted to meet luke and han , yoda, id geek out at that.
Also, if they wouldve played Leias theme as the falcon is revealed, that would make it such an emotionaly connected experience.
I know its a new land but it would have been a constant must do if they had made places from the classics i new and loved.
This is why im not adding to the crowds. Its nice to visit and see while im at disneyland, but its not a reason to make a trip there for.

But for some, the classics that they knew and loved were the Prequels or may even be the new Trilogy. There are many people that love those movies too. It looks to me like they've tried to integrate a lot of that, though I do feel like they may have been to slavish to "story" in trying to make it feel real. There is no reason they can't mix and match so to speak as far as characters, etc., though personally I think the lack of music is the biggest issue.