Agreed, every city has their issues, I remember when it was dangerous to be in Times Square after 9 at night. When the crime rate which included gun violence was totally out of control. There used to be a sign that counted all the gun deaths in NYC, like the debt sign which shows the debt of the US and how much each person would owe. NYC turned around and is on track to having one of the lowest homicide rates in years. I threw in Chicago since the poster has an avatar that celebrates the Chicago Cubs, I was wrong that the poster lives there, but the poster is advocating for a city that has more gun violence there and homocides than a city (NYC) who has more people residing in it than Chicago. That poster used words to denigrate me instead of discussion.
Las Vegas Shooting
- Thread starter Mizzoufan
- Start date
Agreed, every city has their issues, I remember when it was dangerous to be in Times Square after 9 at night. When the crime rate which included gun violence was totally out of control. There used to be a sign that counted all the gun deaths in NYC, like the debt sign which shows the debt of the US and how much each person would owe. NYC turned around and is on track to having one of the lowest homicide rates in years. I threw in Chicago since the poster has an avatar that celebrates the Chicago Cubs, I was wrong that the poster lives there, but the poster is advocating for a city that has more gun violence there and homocides than a city (NYC) who has more people residing in it than Chicago. That poster used words to denigrate me instead of discussion.
robinb
DIS veteran
- Joined
- Aug 29, 1999
Well, I guess that's one explanation.
soccerdad72
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2012
The poster is not 'advocating' for anything. She's a fan of a baseball team.
robinb
DIS veteran
- Joined
- Aug 29, 1999
Is there some weird alternate DIS that you're reading?
What other could there be? I will be going on my sixth Disney Cruise later this month, and maybe you haven't noticed but I can pull up posts from the beginning of Disboards if I wanted to.
sam_gordon
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2010
I. DON'T. KNOW. Neither do you and neither do authorities. Saying "Aha! He had a prescription for Valium! THAT could explain it!" is nothing more than grasping at straws IMO. What if I said "Maybe he took walks in the desert where the US tested nuclear bombs and the radiation affected him"? I'll give you a dime for every hundred theories you can come up with at this point. That's about what they're worth.
Relax. I never pinpointed on ONE thing and said yes that explains it all!! My goodness...I'm simply mentioning different pieces that are being reported. And for what its worth, I'm not making up my own theories. I actually linked that to a news article.
TipsyTraveler
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2014
I'm going to be that person who shows up late to a thread and comments on something that happened 20 pages ago. 
Regarding the discussion of what this will mean for hotel security going forward -- metal detectors, bag searches, etc. -- and whether Americans will tolerate it...
This is already standard practice in Nairobi. First, when approaching the hotel (ours was a Hilton, but their procedures were typical for the city), your car/taxi is stopped at the gate and searched. (The property is completely fenced.) Doors are opened, passengers questioned with a quick "Hi, how are you today, just arriving? Blah, blah" to get a sense of the person's demeanor. Trunk is popped and officials walk the car with mirrors to look underneath. Then you're waved through. When you get to the hotel doors your bags/purses/jackets are put through a scanner and you step through a metal detector, followed by a wanding and pat down if you set it off. I had our wedding rings safety pinned inside my bra so I got a lot of feeling-up that trip.
This procedure is carried out every single time you enter hotel property. Running back in to use the bathroom real quick while waiting for your cab? You're going through the whole process all over again even though you just waved to the security guards on your way out two minutes ago.
This isn't just for hotels, though. It's practically the entire city. Large properties like government buildings and malls are fenced and you're stopped and searched before you or your car get onto property, then possibly again before you enter the building depending on the security layout. Indoor/outdoor retail promenades have security checkpoints at every entrance. Individual stores, and I'm talking cheap little souvenir shops, have metal detectors and/or someone standing at the entrance with a wand. If you're moseying down the street and want to pop into a shop for a second, you're getting wanded. Five shops? That's five searches. Basically, any time you want to enter any kind of enclosed or partially enclosed space, you will have to go through security. It's like one giant TSA city.
Certainly there are exceptions and not every business in Nairobi has their own security staff, but the vast majority do. Definitely anything in the tourist areas, the city centre, government properties, malls, and neighborhoods with $$$. It's by far the most "secured" city I've ever been to. Jarringly so. This wasn't because of a heightened threat level or impending elections or anything. This is normal day-to-day life over there. And truthfully, it became normalized for us very quickly, too. After a couple of days, it becomes habit to toss your bag on the scanner and stop to be wanded every time you approach an entrance.
Do I think this incident in Vegas will move us in that direction? I do. I think we were already moving in that direction anyway, but I feel like this was the game changer for mass shootings. Sandy Hook was the one that upped the depravity of mass shootings, IMO, but this is the one that fundamentally changed how they're carried out. This wasn't the typical crazed gunman enters building and opens fire. This puts a whole new spin on potential loss of life that can occur from one man and his weapons. Kind of how September 11th was the game changer for terrorist attacks. It was no longer about bombs in vans; it was on a whole new level entirely and security procedures underwent significant change as a result.
Will Americans tolerate having to go through searches to check in to their hotel? I don't see why not. We accept it as a routine part of flying. We have to go through security procedures to enter a school. We open our bags when we want to go to the Magic Kingdom. This will just be one more thing "keeping us safe" that will soon feel normal. It's already normal for the citizens of Nairobi.
(Whew, that was long! I need a nap now.
)
Regarding the discussion of what this will mean for hotel security going forward -- metal detectors, bag searches, etc. -- and whether Americans will tolerate it...This is already standard practice in Nairobi. First, when approaching the hotel (ours was a Hilton, but their procedures were typical for the city), your car/taxi is stopped at the gate and searched. (The property is completely fenced.) Doors are opened, passengers questioned with a quick "Hi, how are you today, just arriving? Blah, blah" to get a sense of the person's demeanor. Trunk is popped and officials walk the car with mirrors to look underneath. Then you're waved through. When you get to the hotel doors your bags/purses/jackets are put through a scanner and you step through a metal detector, followed by a wanding and pat down if you set it off. I had our wedding rings safety pinned inside my bra so I got a lot of feeling-up that trip.
This procedure is carried out every single time you enter hotel property. Running back in to use the bathroom real quick while waiting for your cab? You're going through the whole process all over again even though you just waved to the security guards on your way out two minutes ago.This isn't just for hotels, though. It's practically the entire city. Large properties like government buildings and malls are fenced and you're stopped and searched before you or your car get onto property, then possibly again before you enter the building depending on the security layout. Indoor/outdoor retail promenades have security checkpoints at every entrance. Individual stores, and I'm talking cheap little souvenir shops, have metal detectors and/or someone standing at the entrance with a wand. If you're moseying down the street and want to pop into a shop for a second, you're getting wanded. Five shops? That's five searches. Basically, any time you want to enter any kind of enclosed or partially enclosed space, you will have to go through security. It's like one giant TSA city.
Certainly there are exceptions and not every business in Nairobi has their own security staff, but the vast majority do. Definitely anything in the tourist areas, the city centre, government properties, malls, and neighborhoods with $$$. It's by far the most "secured" city I've ever been to. Jarringly so. This wasn't because of a heightened threat level or impending elections or anything. This is normal day-to-day life over there. And truthfully, it became normalized for us very quickly, too. After a couple of days, it becomes habit to toss your bag on the scanner and stop to be wanded every time you approach an entrance.
Do I think this incident in Vegas will move us in that direction? I do. I think we were already moving in that direction anyway, but I feel like this was the game changer for mass shootings. Sandy Hook was the one that upped the depravity of mass shootings, IMO, but this is the one that fundamentally changed how they're carried out. This wasn't the typical crazed gunman enters building and opens fire. This puts a whole new spin on potential loss of life that can occur from one man and his weapons. Kind of how September 11th was the game changer for terrorist attacks. It was no longer about bombs in vans; it was on a whole new level entirely and security procedures underwent significant change as a result.
Will Americans tolerate having to go through searches to check in to their hotel? I don't see why not. We accept it as a routine part of flying. We have to go through security procedures to enter a school. We open our bags when we want to go to the Magic Kingdom. This will just be one more thing "keeping us safe" that will soon feel normal. It's already normal for the citizens of Nairobi.
(Whew, that was long! I need a nap now.
)HarperLeigh
Registered
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2017
I disagree completely with thinking our country will make a move towards this type of theater security. There is no comparison between the US and Nairobi.I'm going to be that person who shows up late to a thread and comments on something that happened 20 pages ago.
This is already standard practice in Nairobi. First, when approaching the hotel (ours was a Hilton, but their procedures were typical for the city), your car/taxi is stopped at the gate and searched. (The property is completely fenced.) Doors are opened, passengers questioned with a quick "Hi, how are you today, just arriving? Blah, blah" to get a sense of the person's demeanor. Trunk is popped and officials walk the car with mirrors to look underneath. Then you're waved through. When you get to the hotel doors your bags/purses/jackets are put through a scanner and you step through a metal detector, followed by a wanding and pat down if you set it off. I had our wedding rings safety pinned inside my bra so I got a lot of feeling-up that trip.
This isn't just for hotels, though. It's practically the entire city. Large properties like government buildings and malls are fenced and you're stopped and searched before you or your car get onto property, then possibly again before you enter the building depending on the security layout. Indoor/outdoor retail promenades have security checkpoints at every entrance. Individual stores, and I'm talking cheap little souvenir shops, have metal detectors and/or someone standing at the entrance with a wand. If you're moseying down the street and want to pop into a shop for a second, you're getting wanded. Five shops? That's five searches. Basically, any time you want to enter any kind of enclosed or partially enclosed space, you will have to go through security. It's like one giant TSA city.
Certainly there are exceptions and not every business in Nairobi has their own security staff, but the vast majority do. Definitely anything in the tourist areas, the city centre, government properties, malls, and neighborhoods with $$$. It's by far the most "secured" city I've ever been to. Jarring-ly so. This wasn't because of a heightened threat level or impending elections or anything. This is normal day-to-day life over there. And truthfully, it became normalized for us very quickly, too. After a couple of days, it becomes habit to toss your bag on the scanner and stop to be wanded every time you approach an entrance.
Do I think this incident in Vegas will move us in that direction? I do. I think we were already moving in that direction anyway, but I feel like this was the game changer for mass shootings. Sandy Hook was the one that upped the depravity of mass shootings, IMO, but this is the one that fundamentally changed how they're carried out. This wasn't the typical crazed gunman enters building and opens fire. This puts a whole new spin on potential loss of life that can occur from one man and his weapons. Kind of how September 11th was the game changer for terrorist attacks. It was no longer about bombs in vans; it was on a whole new level entirely and security procedures underwent significant change as a result.
Will Americans tolerate having to go through searches to check in to their hotel? I don't see why not. We accept it as a routine part of flying. We have to go through security procedures to enter a school. We open our bags when we want to go to the Magic Kingdom. This will just be one more thing "keeping us safe" that will soon feel normal. It's already normal for the citizens of Nairobi.
(Whew, that was long! I need a nap now.
sam_gordon
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2010
Totally disagree. Hotels to flying to schools to amusement parks is comparing apples to pears to grapes to kumquats. I think what many people forget when saying "why don't we do it this way" (often when comparing US air travel security to Israeli) is the issue of scale.
How many people enter Mandalay Bay on a single day? Hotel guests, casino patrons, people eating in the restaurant, seeing a show, etc. Now compare that to that hotel in Nairobi. And Mandalay Bay is a SINGLE resort. Obviously hotels can enact these policies if they'd like. But I think their profits will greatly drop.
wenrob
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
This happened in my city. My child has been in that venue many times. We are still reeling from the shock of it. And yet, I would not want to live that way. Do I think they’re going to bump up security and pay more attention? I do. But the level you’re talking here? No, I don’t think that’s going to happen.I'm going to be that person who shows up late to a thread and comments on something that happened 20 pages ago.
This is already standard practice in Nairobi. First, when approaching the hotel (ours was a Hilton, but their procedures were typical for the city), your car/taxi is stopped at the gate and searched. (The property is completely fenced.) Doors are opened, passengers questioned with a quick "Hi, how are you today, just arriving? Blah, blah" to get a sense of the person's demeanor. Trunk is popped and officials walk the car with mirrors to look underneath. Then you're waved through. When you get to the hotel doors your bags/purses/jackets are put through a scanner and you step through a metal detector, followed by a wanding and pat down if you set it off. I had our wedding rings safety pinned inside my bra so I got a lot of feeling-up that trip.
This isn't just for hotels, though. It's practically the entire city. Large properties like government buildings and malls are fenced and you're stopped and searched before you or your car get onto property, then possibly again before you enter the building depending on the security layout. Indoor/outdoor retail promenades have security checkpoints at every entrance. Individual stores, and I'm talking cheap little souvenir shops, have metal detectors and/or someone standing at the entrance with a wand. If you're moseying down the street and want to pop into a shop for a second, you're getting wanded. Five shops? That's five searches. Basically, any time you want to enter any kind of enclosed or partially enclosed space, you will have to go through security. It's like one giant TSA city.
Certainly there are exceptions and not every business in Nairobi has their own security staff, but the vast majority do. Definitely anything in the tourist areas, the city centre, government properties, malls, and neighborhoods with $$$. It's by far the most "secured" city I've ever been to. Jarringly so. This wasn't because of a heightened threat level or impending elections or anything. This is normal day-to-day life over there. And truthfully, it became normalized for us very quickly, too. After a couple of days, it becomes habit to toss your bag on the scanner and stop to be wanded every time you approach an entrance.
Do I think this incident in Vegas will move us in that direction? I do. I think we were already moving in that direction anyway, but I feel like this was the game changer for mass shootings. Sandy Hook was the one that upped the depravity of mass shootings, IMO, but this is the one that fundamentally changed how they're carried out. This wasn't the typical crazed gunman enters building and opens fire. This puts a whole new spin on potential loss of life that can occur from one man and his weapons. Kind of how September 11th was the game changer for terrorist attacks. It was no longer about bombs in vans; it was on a whole new level entirely and security procedures underwent significant change as a result.
Will Americans tolerate having to go through searches to check in to their hotel? I don't see why not. We accept it as a routine part of flying. We have to go through security procedures to enter a school. We open our bags when we want to go to the Magic Kingdom. This will just be one more thing "keeping us safe" that will soon feel normal. It's already normal for the citizens of Nairobi.
(Whew, that was long! I need a nap now.
sam_gordon
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2010
IMO, you're doing more than that. Prime example:
I would also like to know why the guy did this. There are a lot of facts and evidence out there, some of which has been collected and some of which hasn't. Some of the facts and evidence will lead toward a motive. I think much more will lead to dead ends. Jumping to conclusions I don't think does anyone any good.
sunshinehighway
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2010
I'm going to be that person who shows up late to a thread and comments on something that happened 20 pages ago.
This is already standard practice in Nairobi. First, when approaching the hotel (ours was a Hilton, but their procedures were typical for the city), your car/taxi is stopped at the gate and searched. (The property is completely fenced.) Doors are opened, passengers questioned with a quick "Hi, how are you today, just arriving? Blah, blah" to get a sense of the person's demeanor. Trunk is popped and officials walk the car with mirrors to look underneath. Then you're waved through. When you get to the hotel doors your bags/purses/jackets are put through a scanner and you step through a metal detector, followed by a wanding and pat down if you set it off. I had our wedding rings safety pinned inside my bra so I got a lot of feeling-up that trip.
This isn't just for hotels, though. It's practically the entire city. Large properties like government buildings and malls are fenced and you're stopped and searched before you or your car get onto property, then possibly again before you enter the building depending on the security layout. Indoor/outdoor retail promenades have security checkpoints at every entrance. Individual stores, and I'm talking cheap little souvenir shops, have metal detectors and/or someone standing at the entrance with a wand. If you're moseying down the street and want to pop into a shop for a second, you're getting wanded. Five shops? That's five searches. Basically, any time you want to enter any kind of enclosed or partially enclosed space, you will have to go through security. It's like one giant TSA city.
Certainly there are exceptions and not every business in Nairobi has their own security staff, but the vast majority do. Definitely anything in the tourist areas, the city centre, government properties, malls, and neighborhoods with $$$. It's by far the most "secured" city I've ever been to. Jarringly so. This wasn't because of a heightened threat level or impending elections or anything. This is normal day-to-day life over there. And truthfully, it became normalized for us very quickly, too. After a couple of days, it becomes habit to toss your bag on the scanner and stop to be wanded every time you approach an entrance.
Do I think this incident in Vegas will move us in that direction? I do. I think we were already moving in that direction anyway, but I feel like this was the game changer for mass shootings. Sandy Hook was the one that upped the depravity of mass shootings, IMO, but this is the one that fundamentally changed how they're carried out. This wasn't the typical crazed gunman enters building and opens fire. This puts a whole new spin on potential loss of life that can occur from one man and his weapons. Kind of how September 11th was the game changer for terrorist attacks. It was no longer about bombs in vans; it was on a whole new level entirely and security procedures underwent significant change as a result.
Will Americans tolerate having to go through searches to check in to their hotel? I don't see why not. We accept it as a routine part of flying. We have to go through security procedures to enter a school. We open our bags when we want to go to the Magic Kingdom. This will just be one more thing "keeping us safe" that will soon feel normal. It's already normal for the citizens of Nairobi.
(Whew, that was long! I need a nap now.
I don't think American will tolerate it. I don't really think they should have to either. What a sad day it will be if that becomes a normal part of our everyday lives.
bcla
On our rugged Eastern foothills.....
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
If there's anything that's going to happen, it would be technology. We might get to the point where it would be like those sci-fi movies where security can spot hidden weapons in real time with electronics specifically pointing out suspicious items.
sunshinehighway
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2010
What does it really matter if it's not illegal to have the weapons though?
Who exactly am I causing harm to? What is the problem what me discussing it? How is it directly affecting the investigation?
It is a FACT that Valium (and other psychiatric medications) can cause aggressive behavior in some people. And the shooter did have a history of mental illness in his family.
I'm going to be that person who shows up late to a thread and comments on something that happened 20 pages ago.
This is already standard practice in Nairobi. First, when approaching the hotel (ours was a Hilton, but their procedures were typical for the city), your car/taxi is stopped at the gate and searched. (The property is completely fenced.) Doors are opened, passengers questioned with a quick "Hi, how are you today, just arriving? Blah, blah" to get a sense of the person's demeanor. Trunk is popped and officials walk the car with mirrors to look underneath. Then you're waved through. When you get to the hotel doors your bags/purses/jackets are put through a scanner and you step through a metal detector, followed by a wanding and pat down if you set it off. I had our wedding rings safety pinned inside my bra so I got a lot of feeling-up that trip.
This isn't just for hotels, though. It's practically the entire city. Large properties like government buildings and malls are fenced and you're stopped and searched before you or your car get onto property, then possibly again before you enter the building depending on the security layout. Indoor/outdoor retail promenades have security checkpoints at every entrance. Individual stores, and I'm talking cheap little souvenir shops, have metal detectors and/or someone standing at the entrance with a wand. If you're moseying down the street and want to pop into a shop for a second, you're getting wanded. Five shops? That's five searches. Basically, any time you want to enter any kind of enclosed or partially enclosed space, you will have to go through security. It's like one giant TSA city.
Certainly there are exceptions and not every business in Nairobi has their own security staff, but the vast majority do. Definitely anything in the tourist areas, the city centre, government properties, malls, and neighborhoods with $$$. It's by far the most "secured" city I've ever been to. Jarringly so. This wasn't because of a heightened threat level or impending elections or anything. This is normal day-to-day life over there. And truthfully, it became normalized for us very quickly, too. After a couple of days, it becomes habit to toss your bag on the scanner and stop to be wanded every time you approach an entrance.
Do I think this incident in Vegas will move us in that direction? I do. I think we were already moving in that direction anyway, but I feel like this was the game changer for mass shootings. Sandy Hook was the one that upped the depravity of mass shootings, IMO, but this is the one that fundamentally changed how they're carried out. This wasn't the typical crazed gunman enters building and opens fire. This puts a whole new spin on potential loss of life that can occur from one man and his weapons. Kind of how September 11th was the game changer for terrorist attacks. It was no longer about bombs in vans; it was on a whole new level entirely and security procedures underwent significant change as a result.
Will Americans tolerate having to go through searches to check in to their hotel? I don't see why not. We accept it as a routine part of flying. We have to go through security procedures to enter a school. We open our bags when we want to go to the Magic Kingdom. This will just be one more thing "keeping us safe" that will soon feel normal. It's already normal for the citizens of Nairobi.
(Whew, that was long! I need a nap now.
Nairobi, Kenya has been the target of terrorists and in response they stepped up the security for their citizens and tourists. Bravo to them for doing the best for their country.
clutter
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2001
I just don't understand that after every mass shooting incident ,the gun control gets a piggy ride on it. Looking at a facts, in this case from 2014, this is the least of an issue when it comes to mass shooting.
Good year to pick:
2012: 67
2013: 31
2015: 46
2016 71
2017 80 - so far
Source: Mother Jones
When I did my Jury duty, I had to go through metal detectors into the courthouse to do my civic duty. When I travel, I have to go through plenty of metal detectors and body scanners to get on a plane. When I go to a Broadway show, I have to open every bag I am carrying to a guard. I ask myself when I go through these security measures do I want me and others to be safe or do I want to play Russian roulette with my safety.
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