Las Vegas Shooting

[nd5056]

...
It is a FACT that Valium (and other psychiatric medications) can cause aggressive behavior in some people. And the shooter did have a history of mental illness in his family.

Based on stats from this LINK I'd think that the "bath salts" are far more dangerous then Valium

 

[TipsyTraveler]

I disagree completely with thinking our country will make a move towards this type of theater security. There is no comparison between the US and Nairobi.

The differences aren't that great, except it's true that our country has suffered from larger terrorist attacks and my home city has a higher violent crime rate than Nairobi.

Totally disagree. Hotels to flying to schools to amusement parks is comparing apples to pears to grapes to kumquats. I think what many people forget when saying "why don't we do it this way" (often when comparing US air travel security to Israeli) is the issue of scale.

How many people enter Mandalay Bay on a single day? Hotel guests, casino patrons, people eating in the restaurant, seeing a show, etc. Now compare that to that hotel in Nairobi. And Mandalay Bay is a SINGLE resort. Obviously hotels can enact these policies if they'd like. But I think their profits will greatly drop.

I dunno, Disney manages to move thousands of people into their parks every day while enacting security procedures. I don't think it would be too difficult for a Vegas hotel.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that we should move to Nairobi-like security around every corner. I'd hate it, just like I hate dealing with airport security. What I'm saying is, that level of security -- metal detectors and bag scans to enter a hotel (plus much more) -- already exists somewhere and is accepted as completely normal by the people who live there. You know, there used to be a time in this country where the very idea that a government agency would be able to take a scan of your naked body before allowing you on a plane seemed ludicrous. But here we are. Things change over time, particularly in the name of security. No hotel wants to be the vantage point for the next mass shooting like this. I think we're going to see some changes. Didn't someone upthread mention some Vegas hotel/s are already wanding people because of this?

 

[erin1715]

Based on stats from this LINK I'd think that the "bath salts" are far more dangerous then Valium

That link says nothing about side effects, but here is one for you to check out https://www.drugs.com/sfx/valium-side-effects.html

And here are the psychiatric possible side affects:
Common (1% to 10%): Confusion, withdrawal symptoms, euphoria, increased anxiety/anxiety, panic, irritability, delirium, aggressiveness/aggression, numbed emotions, instability, restlessness, agitation, inappropriate behavior, delusions, rage, hallucinations, nightmares, confusional or paranoid psychosis/psychoses

 

[bcla]

What does it really matter if it's not illegal to have the weapons though?

If it's private property or perhaps a prohibited area like a train station, then whether or not it's "legal" doesn't bypass the property management's rights to keep out weapons.

We're not talking about the street. Where strangely enough real guns are legal on the Las Vegas Strip, but toy guns aren't by county ordinance.

http://www.fresnobee.com/news/nation-world/article176655566.html

 

[sunshinehighway]

When I did my Jury duty, I had to go through metal detectors into the courthouse to do my civic duty. When I travel, I have to go through plenty of metal detectors and body scanners to get on a plane. When I go to a Broadway show, I have to open every bag I am carrying to a guard. I ask myself when I go through these security measures do I want me and others to be safe or do I want to play Russian roulette with my safety.

Sure but that's not really they same as having your car, person and belongings searched to enter a hotel or store.

 

[mummabear]

This is already standard practice in Nairobi. First, when approaching the hotel (ours was a Hilton, but their procedures were typical for the city), your car/taxi is stopped at the gate and searched. (The property is completely fenced.) Doors are opened, passengers questioned with a quick "Hi, how are you today, just arriving? Blah, blah" to get a sense of the person's demeanor. Trunk is popped and officials walk the car with mirrors to look underneath. Then you're waved through.

This is also the procedure to enter the area of Nusa Dua in Bali, the cab pulls to to security, parks over a camer set up which allows them to see under the car, opens trunk, opens front door and checks drivers taxi liscence and then the back door to talk to the guests.

But nothing after that at the hotel.
Admittedly I think they are checking for bombs not weapons

 

[bcla]

When I did my Jury duty, I had to go through metal detectors into the courthouse to do my civic duty. When I travel, I have to go through plenty of metal detectors and body scanners to get on a plane. When I go to a Broadway show, I have to open every bag I am carrying to a guard. I ask myself when I go through these security measures do I want me and others to be safe or do I want to play Russian roulette with my safety.

Depends on where and when.

I served on jury duty several times over 20 years ago an never had to go through a metal detector. It was right through the front doors to our courtroom that was near the entrance. However, that's changed over the years. These days they do have metal detectors.

It's changed quite a bit at sporting events too. Most professional sports seem to have metal detectors, but not college quite yet.

Of course there's airports, but not train travel yet. Many train stations aren't even anything more than a platform and benches, so setting up some sort of security cordon is kind of difficult. Some of the stations I use with buildings are set up where it's easy enough to walk onto the train platform without entering the building, so what use would setting up metal detectors be? I had ridden a bus in Asia, where there were metal detectors in the building and you had to pass through the building to get to the bus.

I guess the oddest was at a foreign consulate when I went to get a visa. I went through the metal detector at the front entrance, but when I pulled out my pocket knife I was told it was OK to bring in.

 

[nd5056]

Good year to pick:

2012: 67
2013: 31
2015: 46
2016 71
2017 80 - so far

Source: Mother Jones

I didn't pick the year just because it was low. I ran into it searching for something. Regardless, I didn’t post it to tip the scale toward either side of the gun debate, with such a low percentage of mass shooting deaths compared to ALL gun related deaths, it’s irrelevant. Far more people die every year from car accidents for example.I may not be spot on, but I could bet that more people died from Heroin /Fentanyl OD in Chicagoland area this year then total wounded in Vegas shooting. The question should be "WHY", rather the "HOW" they died.


Do you really believe if the guy couldn’t buy a gun, he’d say “forget it” and move on? As I mention before in this thread, I believe if you take the guns away from those individual, they’ll find a truck or make a bomb. But they somehow accomplish what they want to do. And what’s driving them should be the researched, not just say because he had a gun and call it a day.

 

[sunshinehighway]

If it's private property or perhaps a prohibited area like a train station, then whether or not it's "legal" doesn't bypass the property management's rights to keep out weapons.

We're not talking about the street. Where strangely enough real guns are legal on the Las Vegas Strip, but toy guns aren't by county ordinance.

http://www.fresnobee.com/news/nation-world/article176655566.html

It wouldn't do anything to get the person in custody or off the street is more what I was getting at. Deny them entry to that property so?
A person tries to check in a hotel with 30 guns. Security find them and tells him he can't bring them in and will have to leave. He leaves. That doesn't seem to really accomplish anything.

 

[HarperLeigh]

Depends on where and when.

I served on jury duty several times over 20 years ago an never had to go through a metal detector. It was right through the front doors to our courtroom that was near the entrance. However, that's changed over the years. These days they do have metal detectors.

It's changed quite a bit at sporting events too. Most professional sports seem to have metal detectors, but not college quite yet.

Of course there's airports, but not train travel yet. Many train stations aren't even anything more than a platform and benches, so setting up some sort of security cordon is kind of difficult. Some of the stations I use with buildings are set up where it's easy enough to walk onto the train platform without entering the building, so what use would setting up metal detectors be? I had ridden a bus in Asia, where there were metal detectors in the building and you had to pass through the building to get to the bus.

I guess the oddest was at a foreign consulate when I went to get a visa. I went through the metal detector at the front entrance, but when I pulled out my pocket knife I was told it was OK to bring in.

There are no metal detectors at our local county courthouse. I did my jury duty last year and I walked right into the building and into the courtroom.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I didn't pick the year just because it was low. I ran into it searching for something. Regardless, I didn’t post it to tip the scale toward either side of the gun debate, with such a low percentage of mass shooting deaths compared to ALL gun related deaths, it’s irrelevant. Far more people die every year from car accidents for example.I may not be spot on, but I could bet that more people died from Heroin /Fentanyl OD in Chicagoland area this year then total wounded in Vegas shooting. The question should be "WHY", rather the "HOW" they died.


Do you really believe if the guy couldn’t buy a gun, he’d say “forget it” and move on? As I mention before in this thread, I believe if you take the guns away from those individual, they’ll find a truck or make a bomb. But they somehow accomplish what they want to do. And what’s driving them should be the researched, not just say because he had a gun and call it a day.

I think the harder you make it the more chance of the person being thwarted.

 

[msjprincess]

I think the harder you make it the more chance of the person being thwarted.

Exactly.

Using that, logic why have any laws or regulations?


We have so many rules and regulations but for some reason people say regulations on guns won't work. I can't have a pool in my yard without a fence because someone might wander in and drown.

 

[luvsJack]

I didn't pick the year just because it was low. I ran into it searching for something. Regardless, I didn’t post it to tip the scale toward either side of the gun debate, with such a low percentage of mass shooting deaths compared to ALL gun related deaths, it’s irrelevant. Far more people die every year from car accidents for example.I may not be spot on, but I could bet that more people died from Heroin /Fentanyl OD in Chicagoland area this year then total wounded in Vegas shooting. The question should be "WHY", rather the "HOW" they died.


Do you really believe if the guy couldn’t buy a gun, he’d say “forget it” and move on? As I mention before in this thread, I believe if you take the guns away from those individual, they’ll find a truck or make a bomb. But they somehow accomplish what they want to do. And what’s driving them should be the researched, not just say because he had a gun and call it a day.

I agree with you and no I don't think he would have said "forget it". Too many have proven that all over the world. Can't get a gun? Use something else. But some don't want to see that because its easier to blame the gun when the fault lies in the evil inside some people.

 

[ELKA]

Sure but that's not really they same as having your car, person and belongings searched to enter a hotel or store.

As I said, Nairobi has had major terror attacks in their city. They want their citizens and tourists safe. So they implemented safety measures and it seems to have worked as I have not heard of any major attacks recently. I can't go into an office building in NYC without getting a pass. Just recently I had a meeting and had to get a visitors pass and they checked their list to see if my name was on it. Penn station is constantly patrolled by the Police and National guard, some with dogs. When I went to see Present Laughter and Charlie and the Chocolate factory on Broadway they checked my bag. As I said, do you want to come home for dinner or not.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Exactly.

Using that, logic why have any laws or regulations?


We have so many rules and regulations but for some reason people say regulations on guns won't work. I can't have a pool in my yard without a fence because someone might wander in and drown.

The argument that if it's not a gun it'll be something else just doesn't make sense to me. If all those other options people mention are just as easy and effective then why are they using guns? It really does seem to be it's the easiest and most effective way to carry out these horrible mass murders.
I love how people say oh he'll just make a bomb, like it's really just that simple.
He'll just get the guns illegally is another one. Yeah, he might but there's actually a chance to catch him before the attack if he has to do suspicious and/or illegal things to prepare.

 

[robinb]

Do you really believe if the guy couldn’t buy a gun, he’d say “forget it” and move on? As I mention before in this thread, I believe if you take the guns away from those individual, they’ll find a truck or make a bomb. But they somehow accomplish what they want to do. And what’s driving them should be the researched, not just say because he had a gun and call it a day.

We have adapted to stop individuals from recreating past attacks. We now have jersey barriers and bollards because of the Oklahoma City bombing. We take our shoes off because of the shoe bomber. Cockpit doors are locked and we can't 'congregate' near the bathrooms on a plane because of the 9/11 terrorists. We are limited to 3 oz of shampoo in a quart ziplock because of terrorism possibilities.

Sure, it's a moving target but we have made changes to protect ourselves in the past. I think it's time to make changes now to protect Americans from gun violence (and I cannot go into those changes due to board rules). If crazy/intent people adapt, then so can we.

 

[sunshinehighway]

As I said, Nairobi has had major terror attacks in their city. They want their citizens and tourists safe. So they implemented safety measures and it seems to have worked as I have not heard of any major attacks recently. I can't go into an office building in NYC without getting a pass. Just recently I had a meeting and had to get a visitors pass and they checked their list to see if my name was on it. Penn station is constantly patrolled by the Police and National guard, some with dogs. When I went to see Present Laughter and Charlie and the Chocolate factory on Broadway they checked my bag. As I said, do you want to come home for dinner or not.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Yeah some places already have security checks. That's a far cry from what another poster described.
I don't really think you can compare bag check at a Broadway play to having your car, person and luggage searched to stay at a Holiday Inn or wherever.

 

[nd5056]

We have adapted to stop individuals from recreating past attacks. We now have jersey barriers and bollards because of the Oklahoma City bombing. We take our shoes off because of the shoe bomber. Cockpit doors are locked and we can't 'congregate' near the bathrooms on a plane because of the 9/11 terrorists. We are limited to 3 oz of shampoo in a quart ziplock because of terrorism possibilities.

Sure, it's a moving target but we have made changes to protect ourselves in the past. I think it's time to make changes now to protect Americans from gun violence (and I cannot go into those changes due to board rules). If crazy/intent people adapt, then so can we.

And they all are reasonable and valid changes. But, we didn't go as far as forbidding wearing shoes on airplane or banned any or all liquids we can carry along, right? And that's exactly my point of view.

 

[ELKA]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Yeah some places already have security checks. That's a far cry from what another poster described.
I don't really think you can compare bag check at a Broadway play to having your car, person and luggage searched to stay at a Holiday Inn or wherever.

The point I am trying to make is that security measures to thwart nuts and terrorists from killing people is welcomed by me so that I know I have a good chance of getting back to my family. If Logan airport in Boston, MA had any type of security on 9/11 the building in NYC where the Freedom tower is now would still be the World Trade Center. 5 people from where I live would probably be still alive and with their families. The ex Fire Chief of the volunteer fire department where I live wouldn't be dying of stomach cancer from working at ground zero after the attack. Does that answer what my point is.

 

[nd5056]

I think the harder you make it the more chance of the person being thwarted.

That would work only with teenagers or amateurs, not with Stephen Paddock. And I don't think there's any drug in the world that would flip him over too. He must have a reptile blood circulating inside his body.