Latest on Cruise Terminal in Tampa?

[Beth]

Just curious what you "rumour veterans" have heard lately.

I was in a meeting with a group of businessmen the other day, and they were discussing the "plans Disney has to build a new terminal at the Port of Tampa."

The fact that these men - OBVIOUSLY not your typical Disney fans - knew so much about this made me think that this is becoming more of a "sure thing."

What's the latest?!?

 

[Werner Weiss]

I think it's highly unlikely. Disney has an underutlized asset at Port Canaveral where the impressive Disney Cruise terminal is only used three days per week. And Disney has an underutilized asset in the Bahamas, where Disney's private island of Castaway Cay is only used three days a week. And Port Canaveral is the right place for departures to Castaway Cay.

If Disney orders a third ship (which they haven't done yet), I see three possible departures:

• Port Canaveral again
• An East Coast departure from a port such as New York or Baltimore, with Castaway Cay and Port Canaveral as two of the ports of call (with Castaway Cay providing compliance with the Passenger Services Act).
• A West Coast port such as Long Beach or Los Angeles (tie-in to the Disneyland Resort) for cruises to Mexico, with the possibility of Alaska cruises from Vancouver or Seattle in the Summer.

I just don't see why Disney would want to invest in a new terminal in the Post of Tampa. What would it buy them?

 

[Snowgod]

How about access to the planned high speed rail line rumored to run from Orlando to tampa in its first leg.

 

[JonetteA]

This is what I have heard 'on the ship' so to speak. There will be a 3rd ship. It looks as though the Wonder will be moved to the West Coast. What it will do I do not know. And the new ship will take over the Wonder's itinerary.

 

[JonetteA]

This is what I have heard 'on the ship' so to speak. There will be a 3rd ship. It looks as though the Wonder will be moved to the West Coast. What it will do I do not know. And the new ship will take over the Wonder's itinerary.

Possibly looking at 2005 maiden voyage.

 

[Euphscott]

Intriguing ideas Werner.

Where would Disney sail to if they did go from New York or Baltimore? I see you suggesting Castaway Cay being a stop, but would an all American port listing (outside of teh Bahamas jaunt) be enough to fill ships? I don't see that unless it's a small ship?

Or maybe a call close to South Carolina for DVC folks?

I agree though that Tampa seems to make little sense unless they are going to run western Caribbean sailings from there. Even so, Port Canaveral seems to fit that bill.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by Euphscott
Where would Disney sail to if they did go from New York or Baltimore? I see you suggesting Castaway Cay being a stop, but would an all American port listing (outside of teh Bahamas jaunt) be enough to fill ships? I don't see that unless it's a small ship?

My speculation about the posibility of a DCL intinerary that departs from New York and includes Castaway Cay and Port Canaveral as two of the ports comes from putting two items together:

• People over on the DIS Disney Cruise Line board have reported being given surveys that, among other things, inquire about interest in New York departures.
• Then there's recent news from Norwegian Cruise Line (NCL). Here's a quotation from an April 17, 2002, NCL press release:
  <DL><DD>NCL's brand new 92,000-ton, 2,240-passenger Norwegian Dawn, based in New York from May through October, will use her great speed to offer seven-day roundtrip cruises calling on four ports in the Bahamas and Florida: Nassau, NCL's private island Great Stirrup Cay in the Bahamas, Miami and Port Canaveral, Florida</DD></DL>

There's no reason why Disney couldn't base a ship in New York or Baltimore for cruises down the East Coast to Florida from May through October too, similar to NCL. (I'd prefer to see a port stop at Charleston instead of Miami.) Disney would be able to leverage existing assets -- Castaway Cay and the DCL terminal at Port Canaveral.

At Port Canaveral, DCL could offer shore excursions to WDW and Kennedy Space Center, leveraging additional existing assets -- the Disney Cruise Line bus fleet.

I think DCL could attract a lot of passengers a New York departure. For families living in the big cities of the East Coast, it would mean being able to take a Disney Cruise without having to fly to and from Florida. That could save a family of four around $600-1600 (depending on season and availability of sale airfares).

Today, cruises from New York (on other cruise lines) go to New England or Bermuda. NCL is banking that a cruise to the Bahamas and Florida will be attractive to New Yorkers and other East Coasters, including those who want something different than the current New York itineraries. I think DCL would have a competitive edge over NCL in attracting familes and people who like Disney.

 

[Dumbo]

Werner wrote: (with Castaway Cay providing compliance with the Passenger Services Act).

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Werner,

Castaway Cay is a privatly owned island. Stopping there would not satisfy the PSA. A ship has to stop at a foreign governmant type port. Nassau would have to be used in your example.

Disney would be wise to follow Carnivals example for 3 and 4 day sailings out of N.Y.C. Carnival's 3 day sailing stops at St. John's, Newfoundland. It's 4 day sailing includes Halifax, Nova Scotia.

NCL and Carnival will be doing 7 day sailings to the Caribbean out of N.Y.C. only because they are using newer faster ships. The Disney ships don't have the speed to do this.

Dumbo

 

[DC7800]

I'll admit I have no knowledge whatsoever about the Cruise Line industry, but wouldn't the obvious destination from New York be WDW (via Port Canaveral)? Seems like the ultimate way to travel to/from Disney World (fly or take the train the opposite direction), yet less time consuming (perhaps cheaper) than current cruise/WDW packages.

What is the Passenger Services Act anyway? Why do ships have to call at a foreign port?

I know - I'm cruise ignorant!

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by DC7800
I'll admit I have no knowledge whatsoever about the Cruise Line industry, but wouldn't the obvious destination from New York be WDW (via Port Canaveral)?

I agree that's a very nice idea... but one-way cruises from NY to WDW aren't going to happen thanks to an obscure Federal law.

An 1886 law, the Passenger Services Act, forbids foreign-flagged ships -- such as the Italian-built, Bahamian-flagged, international crew Disney ships -- from transporting passengers between US ports. The law allows foreign ships to make cruises that begin and end at the same US port. The law even allows those ships at other US ports as long as they also go to a foreign port. (That's why the Disney Magic can stop at St. Thomas, USVI, and Key West, Florida.

If you want a good laugh, take a look at what cruise lines do to comply with the Passenger Services Act on Hawaii cruises.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by Dumbo
Werner,

Castaway Cay is a privatly owned island. Stopping there would not satisfy the PSA. A ship has to stop at a foreign governmant type port. Nassau would have to be used in your example.

I'm not aware that the Passenger Services Act differentiates between a "foreign governmant type port" and a privately owned port in a foreign country. I'm not saying Dumbo is wrong, but I'd be interested in knowing the source of this information.

Castaway Cay (nee Gorda Cay) is in the Commonwealth of the Bahamas, a genuine foreign country. It even has a Bahamian Post Office. And passengers on the Disney Magic fill out Bahamian immigration forms as part of the packet of documents.

The Sun Princess does a 15-night cruise from Los Angeles to five ports in Hawaii and back to Los Angeles. To comply with the PSA, the Sun Princess spends one hour in Ensenada, Mexico, the evening of day 15 of the cruise. The passengers stay on the ship. But the foreign-flagged ship has complied with the Passenger Services Act.

So if Dumbo is correct, and Castaway Cay isn't foreign enough, a Disney ship could be "legal" by spending one hour, possibly late at night, in another Bahamian port.

 

[Dumbo]

Werner,

I looked but couldn't find the citation in the PSA about private islands. I think it has to do with a foreign port that is open to "all" cruise lines. The port can not restrict which ships call there. By the way Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands are considered "foreign" ports for the PSA. Cruises to "nowhere" are exempt from the PSA.

All I can say about that one hour port call in Mexico is "What a waste of port taxes".

As a side note, did you know that there has not been a new ship order granted to ship yards in over 18 months. There are still orders for new builds for delivery well into 2005 and even 2006. But all these orders were placed by cruise lines over 18 months ago. Interesting.


Dumbo

 

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by Dumbo
As a side note, did you know that there has not been a new ship order granted to ship yards in over 18 months. There are still orders for new builds for delivery well into 2005 and even 2006. But all these orders were placed by cruise lines over 18 months ago. Interesting.

Yes, it is very interesting.

And it could be good news for Disney. As the pipeline of orders goes dry, the shipyards might compete vigorously for new business -- which could be financially advantageous to Disney if they decide to go ahead with one or two additional ships.