Latest School Shooting

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

How about parents actually parenting and not being their kid's friend? How about teaching RESPECT for other opinions. RESPECT for property of others. Compassion and caring for others. Teaching personal responsibility. Making kids EARN their phones, cars, designer clothes, etc. Enforcing rules and following through if they are broken. Letting the kids know that they must put forth EFFORT to win first place. No more "participation" trophies. Raise your kids to be responsible adults, not whiny demanding brats.

It's interesting you mentioned that. I just got back from my cousin's high school graduation party. My aunt, who teaches in elementary school, was discussing her experiences (as usual lol). She said this year was the worst in her long career she's had.

The protocal is the teacher cannot touch the student, which understandable, is also a problem. The reason it's a problem is some of her kids are so unruly that they actually can hurt someone. They have destroyed school property, trashed her room and thrown desks! Seriously thrown desks around and at times at her. And this is multiple kids. There are ones that refused to listen when it's time to move on to something, ones that scream and scream and scream, ones that yell profanities, and call anyone stupid, tell them to go to hell, amongst other things.

And their protocal is to evacuate the classroom, leave the child who is having the issue in the classroom and contact the parents. They've taken counselors out of the school but do have social worker that can help. They've had to call the police several times because of certain kids. Sometimes for several hours she's had to relocate her classroom elsewhere.

I seriously cannot believe these kids are still in this school much less still in the regular classrooms and these are elementary school kids! These aren't kids that are autistic or on the spectrum. They are however kids who severely lack active parenting. One of her parents insisted their child was being bullied but per my aunt he's actually the person who bullies.

I just stared at her aghast. I have no idea how these kids will be come middle or high school but unfortunately in this climate the schools enable the behavior, the parents enable the behavior and the teachers and fellow students are left with extreme interruptions to their education.

 

[UncleMike101]

But...

You don't give an overweight diabetic man cake, do you?

Same way you don't give a risk case a gun?

And how do you define a risk case? Thought police territory? Or pre-emptive policing? Clearly not enough is being done, or America wouldn't be afflicted by such a monstrous amounts of mass shootings.

No.....
And you can't stop him from eating cake if he really wants to.
Unless of course you can ban cake.
The answer is not to ban something.
Banning an object has proven to be absolutely useless in stopping humans from doing bad things with those objects.
Look at how successful Prohibition was. NOT.......
Look at how successful the "War on Drugs" has been. NOT.......
Nuclear Test Ban Treaties and UN resolutions haven't stopped N. Korea and Iran from producing nuclear weapons.
London now surpasses New York in murders per year.
But the British have to use knives on each other thanks to GB's strict gun control.
The point is that murder will never go away until the last human has expired.

 

[Domo]

No.....
And you can't stop him from eating cake if he really wants to.
Unless of course you can ban cake.
The answer is not to ban something.
Banning an object has proven to be absolutely useless in stopping humans from doing bad things with those objects.
Look at how successful Prohibition was. NOT.......
Look at how successful the "War on Drugs" has been. NOT.......
Nuclear Test Ban Treaties and UN resolutions haven't stopped N. Korea and Iran from producing nuclear weapons.
London now surpasses New York in murders per year.
But the British have to use knives on each other thanks to GB's strict gun control.
The point is that murder will never go away until the last human has expired.

Maybe one last post...

You take away the gun, you take away the murder weapon. People are at fault, but please, don't make it easy for someone to kill and maim. We in Britain gave up our guns to a greater or lesser extent, and now shootings have basically vanished.

That's step one. No gun, no shooting. Period.

 

[luvsJack]

It doesn’t happen because most schools don’t have metal detectors so the kids are in school. Do you really think that if a kid with a gun wants to kill students, a metal detector will stop him? No, he will do it elsewhere.

So you believe he CHOOSES not to just spray bullets at a football game because schools don’t have metal detectors but will suddenly decide to if they do. But you don’t believe that a kid that wants to kill students without a gun will find another way?

I don’t know about anywhere else but I can tell you why no one would walk up in a football game here with a gun. The 10 or so deputies who are there for a purpose.

 

[luvsJack]

Stagger the release times or start of school times? How would that even work?

By not all arriving or leaving at the same time? I am not sure what your confusion is?

 

[texaslover]

Yup, so much safer.

How about when we, as teachers, report a student who perhaps is a danger to themselves or others, somethings done about it. We have a student in our building who has threatened teachers and other students, but because of his disability we can do nothing about it. Sure we can - find an alternative setting for him.

How about we listen to the kids. Better yet, teach them that if they hear something, say something. Saying something to a teacher about a possible fight or dangerous situation isn't snitching. Unfortunately we have to change this mindset of parents, not just the kids.

Let's look at what other countries are doing, other than the lack of ability to get weapons. Smaller schools, more activities, more sense of belonging.

How about parent involvement. While kids are amazing at hiding things, parents do need to know what's going on in their kids' lives.

If your child is an issue, do something. Don't make excuses. Don't push blame away from where it really belongs. Teach your child to take responsibilityb

Give the schools the resources they need.

Yes. It's so disheartening to hear the bickering about gun control when personal responsibility and mental health play just as big of a role in these murders.

As a teacher I know that I and many other teachers could name several students who have the potential to hurt themselves and others. Several (or more) students per campus. I teach elementary and see kids hitting, kicking, head butting, and cursing out teachers daily. Tearing up classrooms. Destroying materials and bulletin boards and books. We have sensory walls and fidgets and we let students "cool down" and those are the only tools we are allowed to use. Students can be taken out by cops on a stretcher for harming others and themselves and be back in school 2 days later. Parents blame the teachers and rules and demands for their kids problems. There are no consequences anymore. Because a child has a diagnosis and is under the special education umbrella does not mean they can emotionally and physically abuse their peers and teachers.

Until we stop allowing these behaviors starting in Kinder and address true mental health issues while also not allowing children to do and say things that are destructive to other's emotions and physical well being nothing will change.

 

[robinb]

It's interesting you mentioned that. I just got back from my cousin's high school graduation party. My aunt, who teaches in elementary school, was discussing her experiences (as usual lol). She said this year was the worst in her long career she's had.

The protocal is the teacher cannot touch the student, which understandable, is also a problem. The reason it's a problem is some of her kids are so unruly that they actually can hurt someone. They have destroyed school property, trashed her room and thrown desks! Seriously thrown desks around and at times at her. And this is multiple kids. There are ones that refused to listen when it's time to move on to something, ones that scream and scream and scream, ones that yell profanities, and call anyone stupid, tell them to go to hell, amongst other things.

And their protocal is to evacuate the classroom, leave the child who is having the issue in the classroom and contact the parents. They've taken counselors out of the school but do have social worker that can help. They've had to call the police several times because of certain kids. Sometimes for several hours she's had to relocate her classroom elsewhere.

I seriously cannot believe these kids are still in this school much less still in the regular classrooms and these are elementary school kids! These aren't kids that are autistic or on the spectrum. They are however kids who severely lack active parenting. One of her parents insisted their child was being bullied but per my aunt he's actually the person who bullies.

I just stared at her aghast. I have no idea how these kids will be come middle or high school but unfortunately in this climate the schools enable the behavior, the parents enable the behavior and the teachers and fellow students are left with extreme interruptions to their education.

It could be that the kids who loose their stuff and trash the classroom are mentally ill. Your aunt may not be aware of the medical diagnosis of those kids as many parents do not share that information, even with teachers, for fear of stigma.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

By not all arriving or leaving at the same time? I am not sure what your confusion is?

lol because that's not practical nor feasible at all. I understood what you meant but I don't understand how you think that is going to work. Dear lord how would you coordinate the thousands of schools to be like that?

Just how in the tarnation are you planning on coordinating all of this between the parents, the teachers, the students, the bus drivers, etc. How do you even structure class like that?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It could be that the kids who loose their stuff and trash the classroom are mentally ill. Your aunt may not be aware of the medical diagnosis of those kids as many parents do not share that information, even with teachers, for fear of stigma.

No I do assure you these kids are not mentally ill. I know the DIS way is to think there is some way to rationalize the behavior but truly in this case mental illness or autism or other cognitive disorders are not applicable. These kids unfortunately have parents who truly don't care about the progress of their children.

I appreciate the thought though.

 

[monsterkitty]

By not all arriving or leaving at the same time? I am not sure what your confusion is?

So different students would have different class period times? I teach middle school so would it be 6th grade is 8-4, 7th is 8:15-4:15, 8th is 8:30-4:30? They would also have different class time schedules?

If this is what you're saying, it's not going to work. 1. parents with children in different grade are just going to drop them off at the same time. 2. Busses can't make that many drop-off/pick-up times. We barely have enough drivers to cover current routes. 3. All of our classes our multi-age as we are ability-level based, not traditional grade level or aged based (and we're not the only district that does this). 4. Not enough teachers in classes such as electives that teach all levels. 5. Bells would be going off at different times. 6. If you just bring them into the school at different times but all begin classes at the same times, what do those kids who enter first do? How do we entertain

(babysit)​

them?

 

[luvsJack]

Yes totally agree, as I thought you were among those Very vocal about not wanting any kind of sensible gun regulations, or limiting the kinds of guns, etc. We need sensible solutions and openness and also to listen to the Parkland protestors, etc. who are coming up with some good ideas.

I am very against thinking that banning a gun or guns will fix the problem, it will not. I do want more control of guns but some want to go too far and that I vehemently disagree with.

I think there are ways to have more background checks, better mental health checks etc for gun ownership. But I do not agree with limiting the kinds of guns. Getting rid of one kind will only change the kind used.

 

[3 MEN AND A BOAT]

Maybe one last post...

You take away the gun, you take away the murder weapon. People are at fault, but please, don't make it easy for someone to kill and maim. We in Britain gave up our guns to a greater or lesser extent, and now shootings have basically vanished.

That's step one. No gun, no shooting. Period.

You take away the gun, you also take away a defensive tool for those less physically able to defend themselves.

 

[UncleMike101]

Maybe one last post...

You take away the gun, you take away the murder weapon. People are at fault, but please, don't make it easy for someone to kill and maim. We in Britain gave up our guns to a greater or lesser extent, and now shootings have basically vanished.

That's step one. No gun, no shooting. Period.

Having your throat slashed by a lunatic is preferable?????
In the U.S. if someone comes at me with a knife, machete, pointy stick, rock, or even a Bic pen, I have the ability to defend myself with my sidearm.
There's a saying here; "Only an idiot brings a knife to a gun fight."
And...........
We have only been invaded twice in our history.
In 1776 and 1812.
And our "Citizen Soldiers" defeated the aggressors well trained, well equipped, World class armies both times.
That's why Great Britain is what it is today, and the U.S. is not a Colony.
And I mean no offense, (or offence in your case).

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So different students would have different class period times? I teach middle school so would it be 6th grade is 8-4, 7th is 8:15-4:15, 8th is 8:30-4:30? They would also have different class time schedules?

If this is what you're saying, it's not going to work. 1. parents with children in different grade are just going to drop them off at the same time. 2. Busses can't make that many drop-off/pick-up times. We barely have enough drivers to cover current routes. 3. All of our classes our multi-age as we are ability-level based, not traditional grade level or aged based (and we're not the only district that does this). 4. Not enough teachers in classes such as electives that teach all levels. 5. Bells would be going off at different times. 6. If you just bring them into the school at different times but all begin classes at the same times, what do those kids who enter first do? How do we entertain

(babysit)​

them?

Speaking towards a few of your points-

For the schools that I went to in the district I went to elementary school started at 8:10am (got out 3:10pm), middle at 8:45am (got out at 3:45pm) and high school at 7:40am (got out at 2:40pm).

Buses were shared between them. For me I was the 3rd bus stop for high school (I can't remember middle school and for elementary we were too close to qualify for free busses so we just walked the relatively short way or were dropped off by the in-home daycare centers I went to) and was picked up at 6:50am arriving at school around 7:10am-7:15am. That bus would then go and start picking up elementary kids and then move on to middle school kids.

Leaving school was the same.

 

[texaslover]

It could be that the kids who loose their stuff and trash the classroom are mentally ill. Your aunt may not be aware of the medical diagnosis of those kids as many parents do not share that information, even with teachers, for fear of stigma.

Even if they are mentally ill they are obviously not in a proper placement if they are hurting themselves and others and disrupting learning for all. And it is not ok for parents to send a child to school with a diagnosed mental illness and not tell anyone and then continue to allow said student to harm people around them. That is the problem - why is that an excuse? Why is that ok?? Let's actually try to help the mentally ill, even if they are a 5, or 4, or 3, etc.

 

[luvsJack]

So different students would have different class period times? I teach middle school so would it be 6th grade is 8-4, 7th is 8:15-4:15, 8th is 8:30-4:30? They would also have different class time schedules?

If this is what you're saying, it's not going to work. 1. parents with children in different grade are just going to drop them off at the same time. 2. Busses can't make that many drop-off/pick-up times. We barely have enough drivers to cover current routes. 3. All of our classes our multi-age as we are ability-level based, not traditional grade level or aged based (and we're not the only district that does this). 4. Not enough teachers in classes such as electives that teach all levels. 5. Bells would be going off at different times. 6. If you just bring them into the school at different times but all begin classes at the same times, what do those kids who enter first do? How do we entertain

(babysit)​

them?

I was thinking more of high schools and there are schools that do this. Students that have more credits than they need so choose a later start time or early release time. Bells don’t go off at different times, they know when they can leave.

 

[declansdad]

You take away the gun, you also take away a defensive tool for those less physically able to defend themselves.

Pretty violent country is everyone needs a gun to defend themselves.

Having your throat slashed by a lunatic is preferable?????
In the U.S. if someone comes at me with a knife, machete, pointy stick, rock, or even a Bic pen, I have the ability to defend myself with my sidearm.
There's a saying here; "Only an idiot brings a knife to a gun fight."
And...........
We have only been invaded twice in our history.
In 1776 and 1812.
And our "Citizen Soldiers" defeated the aggressors well trained, well equipped, World class armies both times.
That's why Great Britain is what it is today, and the U.S. is not a Colony.
And I mean no offense, (or offence in your case).

That statement is certainly open for dispute with the war of 1812 but that is another topic.

 

[PollyannaMom]

It could be that the kids who loose their stuff and trash the classroom are mentally ill. Your aunt may not be aware of the medical diagnosis of those kids as many parents do not share that information, even with teachers, for fear of stigma.

Even if they are mentally ill they are obviously not in a proper placement if they are hurting themselves and others and disrupting learning for all. And it is not ok for parents to send a child to school with a diagnosed mental illness and not tell anyone and then continue to allow said student to harm people around them. That is the problem - why is that an excuse? Why is that ok?? Let's actually try to help the mentally ill, even if they are a 5, or 4, or 3, etc.

I agree. Medical diagnosis or not, if the other children are not safe around them, they don't belong in a regular classroom.

Sometimes, small children need adults to physically intervene when they're out of control. When they get really overwhelmed, they don't know how to calm down on their own.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I was thinking more of high schools and there are schools that do this. Students that have more credits than they need so choose a later start time or early release time. Bells don’t go off at different times, they know when they can leave.

High schools across the nation? Why only high schools? Isn't the risk there at all levels (Sandy Hook for one was an elementary school)?

Schools do things differently depending on their individual characteristics. They don't always work out either and it's rarely a 1 sized fits all solution. If it's one thing we've learned on the DIS it's that our school systems do things differently, sometimes vastly.

 

[luvsJack]

lol because that's not practical nor feasible at all. I understood what you meant but I don't understand how you think that is going to work. Dear lord how would you coordinate the thousands of schools to be like that?

Just how in the tarnation are you planning on coordinating all of this between the parents, the teachers, the students, the bus drivers, etc. How do you even structure class like that?

Well there of course wouldn’t be one plan for all schools, just as there isn’t now.

Each school or district would have to figure out what works for them. Just as they do now.

At the high school my kids attended, it wouldn’t be necessary. 600 students. Some ride the bus, most drive. All go in through the front door and walking through a metal detector wouldn’t slow them down a whole lot.

The school my granddaughters will attend for high school, it would be. They have 3 times as many students. They have two doors, one for bus riders and one for car riders (well either can go in either way but that’s just how it works out). They already have students that start later and some that leave earlier.