Lawsuit at Disneyland - woman who fell when exiting Jungle Cruise boat

[ttintagel]

Yeah, I can't really judge the other issues, but I've had several falls of various severity at WDW (ranging from no ill effects at all to broken bones) and if there was a CM anywhere close enough to see what happened they ALWAYS came over to make sure I was OK. I would be super-surprised to learn that CM's saw her fall and still just stood around laughing.

 

[SueM in MN]

Disney has cameras everywhere. This is probably why they want a jury trial. They can present hard evidence disputing the claim.

They also included ADA discrimination; the one story I read quoted either the lawsuit itself or their attorney (it wasn’t clear) saying that the ride is listed as having an ADA compliant boat. It sounds like part of their suit is complaining that she was discriminated against because the ADA boat was not available.
I still haven’t read anything that said why the accessible boat wasn’t available and how long - like just in use and they didn’t want to wait or out of service for repairs.
I used to know a CM who worked at Jungle Cruise - at the time they were developing the accessible boats, there were a lot of glitches. The first few times they tried it, instead of the wheelchair platform rising, the mechanism put downward pressure on the boat and sunk it. From what I’ve heard, the wheelchair boats can still be a bit temperamental at times

 

[DLgal]

They also included ADA discrimination; the one story I read quoted either the lawsuit itself or their attorney (it wasn’t clear) saying that the ride is listed as having an ADA compliant boat. It sounds like part of their suit is complaining that she was discriminated against because the ADA boat was not available.
I still haven’t read anything that said why the accessible boat wasn’t available and how long - like just in use and they didn’t want to wait or out of service for repairs.
I used to know a CM who worked at Jungle Cruise - at the time they were developing the accessible boats, there were a lot of glitches. The first few times they tried it, instead of the wheelchair platform rising, the mechanism put downward pressure on the boat and sunk it. From what I’ve heard, the wheelchair boats can still be a bit temperamental at times

Sure, but Disney's admission media and disclosure online very clearly states that all rides may not be available at all times for any reason and that is not grounds for refunds or taking legal action.

Perhaps the wheelchair boat wasn't working. Disney doesn't owe anyone guaranteed access to every ride in the park. It's not a violation of ADA. They have to make a reasonable accommodation when possible, but people also need to know their limits.

 

[RoseGold]

Disney has the cameras of Vegas. I bet they have this from multiple angles.

 

[Mle8308]

This is so sad. I’m not sure why the group wouldn’t wait for the accessible boat.(was it out of commission) I dont like to think the CMs would stand around and laugh at anyone struggling. But can you imagine how much worst it would’ve been if a cm had helped and the woman still fell? The poor cm would get the blame. And the CMs at jungle cruise are a rowdy bunch and any laughing was probably other guests. I’m sure some folks reading the report envision a groups of CMs laughing and pointing at the woman. Pretty sure that didn’t happen, and my guess is her daughters were embarrassed along with mom.

- does Disney have camera at the ride departure and arrivals?

From what the article mentioned, I do not believe the accessible boat was available that day. Perhaps maintenance?

 

[SueM in MN]

Sure, but Disney's admission media and disclosure online very clearly states that all rides may not be available at all times for any reason and that is not grounds for refunds or taking legal action.

Perhaps the wheelchair boat wasn't working. Disney doesn't owe anyone guaranteed access to every ride in the park. It's not a violation of ADA. They have to make a reasonable accommodation when possible, but people also need to know their limits.

I agree.
that is why I posted it. That is just another reason that Disney would want to go to trial - the family alleged an ADA violation when there really wasn’t one. I think that part of their lawsuit won’t hold up in court.

 

[Evita_W]

The part of the lawsuit that seems shady is the accusation that "the cast members refused to help her." They literally are not allowed to help you. They can't really touch you. That's the rule.

Jungle Cruise is one of the exceptions to this rule, they help everyone on and off with at least a steadying hand, regardless of ability. Now, they can't do much beyond that, but they can do that.

 

[Evita_W]

From what the article mentioned, I do not believe the accessible boat was available that day. Perhaps maintenance?

At Disneyland there is no excuse for the accessible boat to not be available, as there are two of them, so even if one goes down, there is a second one that should be available. There may be a wait for it, but it should be available.

 

[Evita_W]

They also included ADA discrimination; the one story I read quoted either the lawsuit itself or their attorney (it wasn’t clear) saying that the ride is listed as having an ADA compliant boat. It sounds like part of their suit is complaining that she was discriminated against because the ADA boat was not available.
I still haven’t read anything that said why the accessible boat wasn’t available and how long - like just in use and they didn’t want to wait or out of service for repairs.
I used to know a CM who worked at Jungle Cruise - at the time they were developing the accessible boats, there were a lot of glitches. The first few times they tried it, instead of the wheelchair platform rising, the mechanism put downward pressure on the boat and sunk it. From what I’ve heard, the wheelchair boats can still be a bit temperamental at times

The ones at Disneyland are a bit different than the ones at Disney World due to the loading area being completely different. At Disneyland, the boats are stabilized on rollers, essentially eliminating the possibility of the wheelchair lift causing them to sink when loading and unloading at the station. And there are at least two boats, so even if one is down, the other should be available. My guess is they simply didn't want to wait.

 

[Evita_W]

Yeah, I can't really judge the other issues, but I've had several falls of various severity at WDW (ranging from no ill effects at all to broken bones) and if there was a CM anywhere close enough to see what happened they ALWAYS came over to make sure I was OK. I would be super-surprised to learn that CM's saw her fall and still just stood around laughing.

I agree with this completely.

 

[Groot]

Jungle Cruise is one of the exceptions to this rule, they help everyone on and off with at least a steadying hand, regardless of ability. Now, they can't do much beyond that, but they can do that.

I think that if they see someone who truly needs help getting in and out of a ride, (ex. the person has a cane, trouble walking, etc.), they’ll offer assistance no matter what.

 

[SueM in MN]

The ones at Disneyland are a bit different than the ones at Disney World due to the loading area being completely different. At Disneyland, the boats are stabilized on rollers, essentially eliminating the possibility of the wheelchair lift causing them to sink when loading and unloading at the station. And there are at least two boats, so even if one is down, the other should be available. My guess is they simply didn't want to wait.

There are 2 wheelchair access boats at WDW - Bomokandi Bertha and Wamba Wanda.
Bomokandi Bertha sunk during the ride in February 2020, not during loading.
As I mentioned, the sinking of one of the ADA boats during operation of the lift was during the development and testing of the boat. That was before it was put into operation, and they developed ways to make that not happen when it got to actual use (one of which might have been the roller dock modifications). WDW’s accessible wheelchair boats don’t dock at the regular unload area; they use a spot about halfway between the unload and load dock.
The ‘temperamental’ that I mention was not sinking/pushing the boat into the water; it was the lift sometimes didn’t want to work.

I do know that when we tried to ride the WDW Jungle Cruise in February 2022, both wheelchair boats were out of commission. Since we can’t safely transfer our daughter onto the regular boat, we couldn’t ride.

 

[DLgal]

Jungle Cruise is one of the exceptions to this rule, they help everyone on and off with at least a steadying hand, regardless of ability. Now, they can't do much beyond that, but they can do that.

Yes, but they do that for everyone. They will not offer any further assistance when someone in a wheelchair is trying to get on or off a boat. At that point, it's a transfer.

 

[mcall12]

I think that if they see someone who truly needs help getting in and out of a ride, (ex. the person has a cane, trouble walking, etc.), they’ll offer assistance no matter what.

I believe if someone needs more than a steadying hand, they have to call for EMS to assist. (Someone may have more info on this) The CMs literally cannot step in to help someone. If a guest trips and falls into a CM, do I think they’re going to shove them aside? No. But if they’re in the IASW boat and can’t get out with the assistance of their family and a hand to steady them from the CM? The CM cannot lift them out of the boat, as far as I know. So I believe they would need to call for assistance.

I’m sure it’s for liability issues, both to protect the guest and the CMs.

 

[voxparse]

I believe if someone needs more than a steadying hand, they have to call for EMS to assist. (Someone may have more info on this) The CMs literally cannot step in to help someone. If a guest trips and falls into a CM, do I think they’re going to shove them aside? No. But if they’re in the IASW boat and can’t get out with the assistance of their family and a hand to steady them from the CM? The CM cannot lift them out of the boat, as far as I know. So I believe they would need to call for assistance.

I’m sure it’s for liability issues, both to protect the guest and the CMs.

Exactly. When I fell getting on the boat they rushed over but you could tell they were all actively fighting the urge to assist. The only CM I could see assisting would be someone who is new and not yet well trained

 

[SueM in MN]

I believe if someone needs more than a steadying hand, they have to call for EMS to assist. (Someone may have more info on this) The CMs literally cannot step in to help someone. If a guest trips and falls into a CM, do I think they’re going to shove them aside? No. But if they’re in the IASW boat and can’t get out with the assistance of their family and a hand to steady them from the CM? The CM cannot lift them out of the boat, as far as I know. So I believe they would need to call for assistance.

I’m sure it’s for liability issues, both to protect the guest and the CMs.

That’s exactly what happened when I was on the ride in Mexico with Cheshire Figment (a past moderator on this board and WDW CM before he died). I posted about it on page 1 of this thread.
He was having trouble getting out of the boat. CMs said they couldn’t help him and would need to call EMS to evacuate him if he couldn’t get out. A CM friend of his said he couldn’t help as a CM, but was willing to help as a friend. Between us, we were able to get him out.

 

[MinnieMSue]

That’s exactly what happened when I was on the ride in Mexico with Cheshire Figment (a past moderator on this board and WDW CM before he died). I posted about it on page 1 of this thread.
He was having trouble getting out of the boat. CMs said they couldn’t help him and would need to call EMS to evacuate him if he couldn’t get out. A CM friend of his said he couldn’t help as a CM, but was willing to help as a friend. Between us, we were able to get him out.

I miss Cheshire Figment. He always had such good info on here.

 

[Evita_W]

That’s exactly what happened when I was on the ride in Mexico with Cheshire Figment (a past moderator on this board and WDW CM before he died). I posted about it on page 1 of this thread.
He was having trouble getting out of the boat. CMs said they couldn’t help him and would need to call EMS to evacuate him if he couldn’t get out. A CM friend of his said he couldn’t help as a CM, but was willing to help as a friend. Between us, we were able to get him out.

Yeah, there are sometimes, umm, creative solutions to problems that they come up with.

 

[elvispursley]

Even as health care workers (retired OT), if we're working with someone, and they lose their balance, we are told we are not to catch them/break their fall or try to assist them up from a fall (we had special "lift teams" to do that). We've had too many employees get hurt, seriously, doing this very thing. As a young therapist, working with someone, who lost their balance and I did try to help keep them from falling, ended up hurting my back that ultimately was one of the reasons I had to retire early. I can easily see why Disney doesn't want their CMs assisting guests more than a "steadying" hand because it can be a liability, for everyone.

 

[kittyklawz]

What happened to that lady is really sad. She probably should have waited for the wheelchair accessible boat or not rode it, knowing her own limitations, but also disney probably shouldn't use some unsecured box step that can slip when people walk on it?