Loaded gun found on Dinosaur ride at DAK

[CPT Tripss]

Along those lines, I also would encourage people to not be afraid of law-abiding citizens with guns, simply based off stories of irresponsible gun owners. According to the CDC, there were 14,000 accidental shootings in 2010. Even if all 14k were done with a gun owned by concealed carry holders (7 million), that's .2 percent of that population.

Since there are 300 million firearms owned by civilians in 2010, then that accident rate represents less than .005 percent of the gun population.

Since a current survey shows 35 percent of Americans admit to owning firearms, that means a little over 1.10 million own firearms, then the accident rate represents about .013 percent of gun owners.

Since current homicide and suicide rates are comparable to the accident rate, their percentages would be, too.



Haha. Well, Disney doesn't allow weapons of any kind in the parks, so there ya go.



This entire notion you mentioned all stems from a 1986 study called "Protection or Peril? An Analysis of Firearm-Related Deaths in the Home," by Arthur Kellerman. In it, he concludes "handguns are 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a criminal."

The reason no one uses his study anymore is because, when peers reviewed it, they noticed Kellerman estimated the rate of gun ownership based on facts from two cities, and didn't include situations where intruders were frightened away by the sight of a gun, or avoided a home they knew had guns.

Of the two cities he looked at, he noted 43 cases of a handgun being used on a family member inside the home. What he didn't note, was 37 of them were suicides, and the other deaths involved criminal activity between family members.

Yet, somehow he reached the conclusion that guns in the house are 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a criminal.

Oy vey.



It's not the FBI I'm refuting. It's the VPC, since they're an anti-gun lobbying group. I don't know how else to say it to make it more clear for you.

Are you as loose with the rest of your numbers as you are with your decimal points?

 

[CPT Tripss]

You may not realize (as I did not), but in most provinces, it's easier to purchase an AR15 than it is in most NorthEastern parts of the US.

Canada also doesn't share a border with Mexico.

Neither does MO nor most of the states with high levels of gun fatalities.

 

[skatalite]

Are you as loose with the rest of your numbers as you are with your decimal points?

Is the math wrong?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Neither does MO nor most of the states with high levels of gun fatalities.

No, but we suffer from the porous border and everything that comes with that. As I said before, all you have to do to find shootings is look for the drugs and the gangs. A tiny piece of both KC and STL account for the vast majority of homicides in this state.

 

[Janepod]

Is the math wrong?

35 percent of Americans is not 1.1 million.

 

[skatalite]

35 percent of Americans is not 1.1 million.

I now see my error. The math is still correct, though. Thanks!

 

[NYDisGuy]

The Speculation on your part is that ONLY something bad could happen. That IS a possibility, but one of many.

Because nothing good could happen. I kept the example to Disney, I'm not making a global statement about guns. There is no track record indicating that a person needs to carry a gun into the parks for safety. So if you remove fear from the equation then what is left? The hope that IF something goes down you will be there to save the day? There are trained authorities on site to handle any crisis that may occur on the grounds, they don't need another person waving a gun and trying to be a hero. It will only complicate matters further.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Because nothing good could happen. I kept the example to Disney, I'm not making a global statement about guns. There is no track record indicating that a person needs to carry a gun into the parks for safety. So if you remove fear from the equation then what is left? The hope that IF something goes down you will be there to save the day? There are trained authorities on site to handle any crisis that may occur on the grounds, they don't need another person waving a gun and trying to be a hero. It will only complicate matters further.

AGain, while I agree there's no precedent, and I agree that "I" see no reason to carry at Disney, you can't just definitely state "nothing good could happen". It's a prediction, nothing more.

 

[NYDisGuy]

AGain, while I agree there's no precedent, and I agree that "I" see no reason to carry at Disney, you can't just definitely state "nothing good could happen". It's a prediction, nothing more.

Disney will not throw a parade for a person who stopped a would be criminal by waving a gun. It sends mixed messages and opens the door for more wannabe crime fighters to try and mimic it. Even if they were to thwart a potential criminal, nothing good would come out of it. Not for the criminal, other person with gun, surrounding tourists, future tourists etc. etc. Just look at the people wanting to enhance security for a gun slipping out of someone's pants. And I won't even go down the road of a shot being fired. It's not a prediction, it's common sense.

 

[Domo]

Haven't you ever seen Nuns with Guns?

Sounds sinister...

 

[LuvinLucifer]

Ummm Canada does not have a homogenous society. Neither does the uk. And I'm pretty sure many people would argue that there is a lot of poverty here as well.

I didn't say it was the most homogenous society in the world. I said it was more homogenous than the US along with less poverty. Scandinavian and European countries such as Switzerland(which has far easier access to guns) are far more homogenous and overall cohesive and have lower crime rates regardless of gun legislation.

 

[LuvinLucifer]

This isn't about gun control or the 2nd amendment. It is about someone who disobeyed the rules and brought a gun someplace where he/she wasn't allowed to.

There is nothing wrong with responsible citizens owning guns and nothing wrong with properly permitted gun owners carrying where they are allowed. But responsible gun owners don't:

• Lose track of their gun anywhere let alone a place with so many children
• Carry them in places where they are not allowed by either law or request of the owner of a private establishment.

The moron who owned this weapon is 0 for 2 on the responsible gun owner list. While everyone who isn't a felon in this country should be legally able to own a gun there are plenty of people who just shouldn't.

This is seriously the most relevant post on this thread.

 

[glammadiva]

I'm a lifetime member of the NRA so ya'll know my position, but I've known for years that guns are not allowed on property! That guy is an irresponsible gun owner who needs to have his permit revoked and his weapons confiscated.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I didn't say it was the most homogenous society in the world. I said it was more homogenous than the US along with less poverty. Scandinavian and European countries such as Switzerland(which has far easier access to guns) are far more homogenous and overall cohesive and have lower crime rates regardless of gun legislation.

Are you suggesting that we would be a better, safer nation if we were more homogenous? That our diversity is a negative?

 

[LisaR]

This isn't about gun control or the 2nd amendment. It is about someone who disobeyed the rules and brought a gun someplace where he/she wasn't allowed to.

There is nothing wrong with responsible citizens owning guns and nothing wrong with properly permitted gun owners carrying where they are allowed. But responsible gun owners don't:

• Lose track of their gun anywhere let alone a place with so many children
• Carry them in places where they are not allowed by either law or request of the owner of a private establishment.

The moron who owned this weapon is 0 for 2 on the responsible gun owner list. While everyone who isn't a felon in this country should be legally able to own a gun there are plenty of people who just shouldn't.

And this is my problem with permit laws. I honestly don't have a problem with responsible people owning guns, but we don't have any way of determining who is and isn't responsible. There are the people who accidentally shoot their kids or leave their guns out so their kids can shoot their sibling, drop their gun while on Disney property, shoot the neighborhood dog because they can, accidentally shoot someone at ranges and gun shows, those with undiagnosed mental health problems, those who drink while carrying, and the list goes on and on. There is absolutely nothing in place to determine if the person being issued a permit will be a responsible gun owner. Some are comfortable rolling the dice with this policy. I'm not and this idiot at Disney is a perfect example of why I am not.

 

[LuvinLucifer]

Are you suggesting that we would be a better, safer nation if we were more homogenous? That our diversity is a negative?

It would be a different country. Our diverse and individualistic nature has its pros and cons. It's made us the largest economy in the world, but we don't have the security and cohesion of Sweden.

 

[staceyhzoo]

And this is my problem with permit laws. I honestly don't have a problem with responsible people owning guns, but we don't have any way of determining who is and isn't responsible. There are the people who accidentally shoot their kids or leave their guns out so their kids can shoot their sibling, drop their gun while on Disney property, shoot the neighborhood dog because they can, accidentally shoot someone at ranges and gun shows, those with undiagnosed mental health problems, those who drink while carrying, and the list goes on and on. There is absolutely nothing in place to determine if the person being issued a permit will be a responsible gun owner. Some are comfortable rolling the dice with this policy. I'm not and this idiot at Disney is a perfect example of why I am not.

I have a concealed carry permit and would never dream of taking a gun into one of the parks or any theme park. However, your statement of not being able to determine who is and isn't responsible to carry a gun should also include law enforcement. You are not comfortable with what? The same things you see an issue with civilians carrying can be said about LEO (law enforcement officers).

Police are shooting (tethered or contained) dogs, leaving their weapons where small children can get to them (resulting in the child's death), showing severe mental issues, drinking while carrying, etc and yet the general population seems to feel comfortable putting their security and safety in their hands and not in well informed, legal carrying citizens.

I live in a safe neighborhood, but the last time I called 911 for a strange vehicle parked on the street and the house they were entering was not occupied. It took over an hour for a sheriff to show up and figure out the house had been broken into and vandalized. Sorry, but do you think someone comes into my home is going to wait for the police to show or harm my family? I will not be a victim.

It's plain and simple, criminals don't follow laws. What this guy did was STUPID and RECKLESS but don't group all legal gun owners with him. For those of you that are scared because we have legal gun owners, your fear is in the wrong place. I won't step foot in the UK, a soldier is publicly executed and couldn't defend or protect himself-how do you think his family is feeling about those gun laws now?

 

[LisaR]

I have a concealed carry permit and would never dream of taking a gun into one of the parks or any theme park. However, your statement of not being able to determine who is and isn't responsible to carry a gun should also include law enforcement. You are not comfortable with what? The same things you see an issue with civilians carrying can be said about LEO (law enforcement officers).

Police are shooting (tethered or contained) dogs, leaving their weapons where small children can get to them (resulting in the child's death), showing severe mental issues, drinking while carrying, etc and yet the general population seems to feel comfortable putting their security and safety in their hands and not in well informed, legal carrying citizens.

I live in a safe neighborhood, but the last time I called 911 for a strange vehicle parked on the street and the house they were entering was not occupied. It took over an hour for a sheriff to show up and figure out the house had been broken into and vandalized. Sorry, but do you think someone comes into my home is going to wait for the police to show or harm my family? I will not be a victim.

It's plain and simple, criminals don't follow laws. What this guy did was STUPID and RECKLESS but don't group all legal gun owners with him. For those of you that are scared because we have legal gun owners, your fear is in the wrong place. I won't step foot in the UK, a soldier is publicly executed and couldn't defend or protect himself-how do you think his family is feeling about those gun laws now?

Don't put me in the category of the general population who feels like police are immune to stupidity and guns. I am all for stricter standards/testing for them, as well.

I never once linked all gun owners with the idiot that left his gun behind at Disney. I clearly said I am in favor of RESPONSIBLE people owning guns. My point is that we cannot prove someone is responsible so I would rather not hand out guns willy nilly.

 

[Burnedout]

Would this link detailing the study from the FBI have enough credibility?

http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf

Many gun enthusiasts in this thread are mentioning "studies" and
statistics" without providing any links to back up their claims, then they want to discredit the FBI.

How absurd

That study doesn't address the number of crimes stopped short because of threatened gun use. As most studies it shows its bias. Were I threatened when I was alone on our farm I would have taken the 12 gauge out, pumped it, and if necessary shot it over their heads. I suspect that the usual thieves would have run pretty quick. That would not show up on the study.

So, really it is no less bs than those studies they are trying to show to be bs... Surprise surprise.

 

[staceyhzoo]

As far handing out guns willy nilly, non of my guns have been purchased illegally and have required permits. I do have one 'antique' that has been in my family since 1910. I'm not aware of any other state's requirements but mine. However, I assure you, I have been well investigated by my state's law enforcement offices and the FBI. I also had to take classes and prove myself proficient with multiple guns and at the range. I visit the range (much to my wallet's dismay) at least monthly as does my husband.
I have bought and sold guns privately and followed the same standards gun stores use.

It's not the law abiding people (like myself and thousands of other people) that are the problem This ONE person represents a very small percentage of legal gun owners. While it terrible and he better thank God daily that no one was injured or worse, I feel sure he is not the only person to ever have a gun (legally or illegally) at WDW. With all the proposed bans, laws, etc the media is using every story possible to heighten the 'hysteria'. There are hundreds of stories
we aren't hearing about that show legal gun owners in better light (at least the media at the national level)

No disrespect to anyone, I support all the Amendments equally

Except maybe 18