Looking for Advice....

[appleplie]

Absolutely! But why hasn't the OP'er picked up on that in 19 years?? How would you treat a 10 y/o who refuses to clear the table? Do it for them? For 19 years, the OP'er enabled her mom. Clearly she could do things (work, winter in another state). But now what? Is 74 really the age to teach her a lesson especially when she is lacking funds, exhibiting signs of depression (common for her age), and really hasn't been clued in on this plan?

You do know that I can still stop in regularly and help out with things? I also already admitted that I enabled her. I also said I thought the depression might be contributing to her neediness. It's an excuse to get people in the house. I think her cleaning lady us there more for conversation than cleaning. She's not as needy when she's active and busy.

 

[VandVsmama]

OP:
I think that you should probably consider no longer engaging with everyone in this thread. You don't owe anyone any further JADE'ing (justify, argue, defend, explain).

 

[LisaR]

No-the reason I posted the financial stuff is because everyone has decided that I'm making all kinds of money off of this and that's my motive. Also, as I mentioned in my first post-I was going to help her out financially, but never said how much I was going to help her. She will be fine.

How can you say that? Are you independently wealthy? If not, I fail to see how you can make the statement that "She will be fine." You said earlier that you have absolutely no clue how much money she has left. If that's the truth, what if she's almost out of money? You honestly have enough money to pay for your new home plus rent on a 55+ community (which isn't cheap) for however long your mom lives? Five years? Ten years? Twenty years? You think you have resentment toward her now for not lifting a finger for her when she lived with you, how do you think you're going to feel paying her room and board every month?

 

[LisaR]

Well then no-you didn't read through. Do you believe that a very confident, independent 54 year-old woman would have sold her home, given up her independence and moved in with me to cook, clean and take care of my children just because I suggested it? Is that more believable to you?

Never called her stupid-She can cook, she was perfectly capable of working-just couldn't drive herself to work. Do you know any women who got their licenses later in life that don't like to drive on highways? She can't set an alarm click-you know what? I don't know how to use the DVD player, but I Am still capable of gainful employment.

She had never travelled without my dad before- never travelled again until 6 or 7 years after his death. Went south for a month with a girlfriend. Loved it and has been going back ever since. They don't do everything for you in a 55+ community, but they do have a maintainance service. Plus, she does have friends there. She's done it about 13 times now. She's much more confident than she was 19 years ago.

But you go ahead and set it up the way you think it is right-because you know all about me. It's probably way more interesting.

You're obviously annoyed now and your tone has changed drastically. I understand you are upset and not getting the answers you want.

Please read again what I wrote. Nowhere did I say, or even insinuate, that you called her stupid.

I 100% believe you that A) Your mother did all kinds of independent things and B) At the same time was totally dependent on your father and then your family.
You're entitled to be annoyed with her and at the same time recognize that a good part of the reason she is like she is is because you enabled her (which you admit). I don't believe adult children have any obligation to take care of their parent(s). But I do believe you have done absolutely nothing to prepare your mother for the possibility that this permanent situation wasn't really permanent. I think springing this on a 74 year old depressed woman who, for better or worse, is very dependent on you just sucks.

You mentioned finally having an "adult conversation" with her. This should have happened years ago when you knew the situation wasn't working out not days before putting an offer in on a house.

You can be pissed at all of us who are questioning you, but you did owe your mom more. You owed her an open, honest conversation about what you expected out of your living arrangement years ago, strained relationship or not.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I wouldn't be upset with her at all-just stating that even though she intended for it to be permanent-nobody truly knows what the future will hold. Would it have been fair of me to tell her that she could never leave if she wanted to? Her plans can change-but mine can't?

NO, it wouldn't be. If she wanted to break the permanent arrangement, I would think to be fair she'd need to "give" some and not make you buy her out for the full value she put into the shared home, so that you would not be forced to sell it and move.

I pointed out earlier, for all you know she's been wanting for years to move to her winter location year round but felt she could not break your deal (or cannot afford it without getting her invsetment in teh home back and did not wantto force a sale).

Now you are forcing a sale---because of your desire to move. OK, I can see it and see that is reasonable. And also reasonable is paying her for the over 500 sq feet of added space she put paid for that home to have. That's a lot!
I'm custios, does the 500 include the unfinished upstairs portion that you finished off later?

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I read back on a lot of the posts from the beginning.

This is how the confusion started.

The thread was started on Friday afternoon.

Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, this thread got up to over a hundred pages. During that period, there were a lot of responses with varying opinions. And those were all based on a certain way the story was told.

In fact, it wasn't until MONDAY MORNING AT POST #124 that the original story was changed to "I only have one brother and he bought and flipped the house...".

All 123 posts prior to Monday were basing their opinions on OP saying her "siblings got a payout" many, many pages before.

That is so different than what was said earlier, it was sort of head scratching, tbh.

Then of course, we were called meanies and haters by many when we questioned it so we could understand it.

I think that some posters didn't even read every post, they just commented on random posts or responses they happened to see! But many of us did.

I'm sorry you feel upset over this thread. I do think that it's an emotional subject which can re-open old wounds.

I agree with LisaR and others that this isn't something that can happen in a week. There needs to be sensitivity, discussion and planning with your Mom.

You seem to have a lot of anger toward your mother and even your siblings. Could this be causing you to feel depressed yourself? That can happen when you get to a certain age and stage, i.e. mid-40s. Along with things like peri-menopause, which I don't think anyone has brought up before. Changing your living situation won't necessarily change that, and as a pp mentioned, it could potentially make it worse for you emotionally and financially. You need to think this through at length, and probably read up on the funny things that peri-menopause can do to you before you make any major life decisions, especially in haste. Many women don't recognize when they're in it and that the symptoms and emotions they're having can be caused by hormonal changes. (I didn't for a long time myself.) I'd say this can definitely be affecting how you're feeling right now.

This will be my last update-I am not throwing my mother to the wolves. I have looked out and cared for her for 19 years. I plan to continue that. I will always make sure that she is safe and comfortable. Whether I move or not, this is not a good living situation for her or me. She stays at home most days and dwells on minutia. I also mentioned that I think there are depression issues due to the isolation. I thought, and have thought for a very long time that she would be much happier to be around other people. This is actually why she was happy here for so long-because there was always activity going on with the kids. I thought that us having sort of "separate lives" and her developing some other interests would actually improve our relationship. At this time, we do not have a lot of conversation because she has no other outside interests or anything going on with her life to talk about. I tried to do the right thing 19 years ago-it wasn't the right thing. I took this as an opportunity to right a wrong for all of us. I figured she'd be angry at first and then possibly realize that maybe it is best.

I have not hidden any of this from her. As I said before, my husband and I have had conversations before about the possibility of selling the house someday, but never got serious about it. There was nothing to discuss with my mother and something she would have stressed about that may have never happened. I don't update her on every thought I ever have. We have not been plotting her life behind her back. The opportunity to purchase this new house literally just came up within the last week and I was simply looking for guidance and opinions for when I do have this conversation with my mother within the next few days.
I am not resentful of her lifestyle. I hope she spends every last dime of her money on herself. Her bills are paid and she does what she wants with the rest. Our living situation has allowed for her to be very comfortable. This will be a change for her that she wasn't anticipating. I will not be leaving her destitute. I mentioned in my first post that I will be assisting her with her expenses. My question was more of-how much should I be expected to help? Should she be required to make any changes to her lifestyle?

There is no denying the fact that her investment in my house has added to the current market value. Again, I am not looking to stick it to her. There have been many other "upgrades" if you want to call them and additional money put into the house by my husband and I. It is very difficult at this point, to determine how much her addition has added. Maybe I need to speak to a professional to determine that. I think that if you added up everything that has been spent through the years on improvements-we've actually spent more than the house is currently worth due to "over-improvement" for our neighborhood at this point, if that makes any sense. I want to fair to her, but I need to be fair to myself as well. I'm simply trying to figure out what she's entitled too. I wanted an honest opinion so that it wasn't simply out of emotion.

As far as siblings go, this is my problem and mine to workout. They have the freedom to do as they please-it might be the right thing for them to help out, but that doesn't mean they will.

We have taught her how to put gas in the car but she doesn't feel comfortable maneuvering the car around the gas station. We've also tried to show her how set the time on a clock, how to change a light bulb, how to use the DVD player-I could go on and on. I don't know if she's just not interested or what, but I've already mentioned that's she's manipulative and will stalk, nag and pout until you do what she wants. I could write a book. I didn't include all of this initially because that was not what my original post was about. I never took her in to gain anything from her. She had always been like this and I think my father just coddled her and did what she wanted to keep the peace and the cycle has just continued. She's not evil-I honestly don't think she even realizes it. I am just as much at fault in enabling her. We've created a monster. My siblings keep their distance and show up a few times a year and she thinks they're the best because they don't show any frustration with her.

I think the reason my husband feels that we don't owe her is the fact that my siblings have already received a payout from the sale of her original home. My share was her investment in my home that I would retain upon her death. Along with the resentment that they're not here helping out.

Sounds like the manipulation came from the children and when their father died, they took advantage of their mother. The mother gave everything she had to her kids. That's what mothers do and it was a big mistake. She is no longer needed nor wanted by her family and they just consider her a burden. Very sad story.

Nobody manipulated anyone. Once the suggestion was made for her to move in with us-we couldn't make it fast enough. She wanted out of her home Asa- and left as soon as she could taking only the things that she wanted from the home. She couldn't get out fast enough and wanted nothing to do with the process of preparing a home for sake or snything else. As I said in my original post-decisions were made in haste-by her as well. We were all in shock and doing our best to do what we thought was right at the time. She sold her house to my siblings at a reduced cost. She used the proceeds to finance her apartment. It was the only way she was going to be able to live with me comfortably. She would have her privacy with the space to entertain. My siblings flipped the house and made money off of it. My mother had other money that she spent. She did not have enough income coming to replenish what she spent. It cost thousand each t]year to winter in the south. This is paid for out of savings that is not replaced.

I really not planned on getting into this great of detail on the intimate details of my family dynamics, but so many of you seem to think that my siblings and I are all a bunch of evil and no good. My mother has always had trouble with simple tasks like I said in my previous posts. Be it setting an alarm clock, changing a light bulb, stupid mundane tasks that I can't even think of right now. My father took care of it all. He also did the grocery shopping and drove her to work everyday. This wasn't something that anyone ever approached her about, but we knew that for whatever reason-she had trouble with these kinds of things. I don't know if there is a term for it or a diagnosis-but again, it just is. When I mention my mother being a manipulator-this isn't meant to classify her as evil. This is a defense mechanism as well. If she doesn't know how to do a simple task-she doesn't tell you she doesn't know how to do it. She has mastered a way to work around it so you don't catch on that she doesn't know how to do something. If you're not around her enough-you probably wouldn't even know that you were being manipulated. One of her workarounds when it comes to setting her alarm clock if she has an early appointment is to ask you to check on her if you don't hear her up in the morning. Just silly little things like that. If you push the issue and say why don't you set your alarm clock? She will immediately get defensive and raise her voice, etc. so that you will just do as she asked.

When my father died-we we're all in a panic. They didn't have senior communities 19 years ago like they do now. Besides-she wasn't a senior. She knew she couldn't live on her own even though she didn't come right out and say it-and we knew it as well. She couldn't set her clock to get up in the morning, she couldn't drive her self to work, etc. When I mentioned the possibility of her moving in with me-she jumped on it and never considered any other options. For a time, it looked like it might not happen due to zoning laws and such. She was even more panicked. I realize this is not normal for most 54 year-olds and certainly not for myself. Nobody was thinking clearly and certainly nobody was looking to swindle my mother out of anything. We were young, in mourning and panicked. This seemed like the best idea at the time. Obviously it was not. When I say she thought it was permanent-that's because nobody discussed terms, alternate plans, etc. What if my husband and I got divorced? What if one of us passed away? What if job situations changed, etc. Nothing was discussed. She was just thrilled to have her immediate problem solved. When I say I thought it was permanent-I meant that I thought this was our forever home. Just like when people get married-they assume it's forever-sometimes it's not.

The situation was not good from the start. As I also mentioned previously. But, I couldn't afford to buy her out and I wasn't going to put her out. So we dealt with it. I wonder at times if she even thinks she should have done something different but felt the same way I did-that everything was already done. I never moved her in to be a babysitter-she worked herself. I'm not looking to bash her and say she never did a thing for me-but she was not my house cleaner, baby sitter, cook or whatever.

Once she retired, she started to winter in the South. She was still left with a nice nest egg and she used her savings to do this. She does not have enough income coming in to replenish the savings. She has been doing this for about 13 years now. I do not know what she has left.

When she winters in the south, she stays in a retirement community. She loves it and looks forward to this time every year. She participates in activities, hangs out at the pool, has a card night, etc. She cannot afford to live there year-round. I thought that she would be happier in something like that here, but would never initiate the move on her own due to financial concerns.

So going forward-I have three choices: We can all continue to live here with the changes to the neighborhood; I can move and bring her with me to a home that is secluded, harder for her to get out and about from and doesn't provide the amount of living space that she has now; or I can move and she can move into the retirement community

She will not be abandoned and dropped off like trash at the retirement community. Really people, I've said multiple times that I will help her and see to it that all of her needs are met. She is and will always be a part of my family-but I don't think that means she has to physically live with me.

I am bowing out of this because it has just gotten totally ridiculous. My husbands no good, my siblings are no good, I'm no good. Why is it so hard to believe that someone could do something without malice. I just wanted to do what I thought was right. I was the oldest, the only one married with a home of her own. I wanted to do what I thought my father would want and I wanted him to rest in peace knowing that mom was being well taken care of-absolutely no other ulterior motive what so ever. I know, unheard of right! My husband stood by me and said do what you think you need to do and we did it. Nobody held a gun to my mothers head and made her do it. She was happy and relieved. It turned out to be a mistake for all involved-but it was too late to correct. We now have an opportunity to correct it. There will be no lawsuits involved and everything will be handled legally and fairly.

For the record, I have never called my mother stupid or mean and what I wouldn't right now for my father to be alive living happily with my mother. All of us would gladly give everything for that to be.

Apparently, it is a huge rarity for a daughter to do this for 19 years because nobody can believe it was done with the best of intentions in mind.

Since I’m still being dragged through the mud….When my husband and I first made the suggestion that my mother move in with us- and as I had mentioned in my earlier posts, we had trouble getting the necessary approvals from our town to be able to have an in-law-apartment. We started to give up on the idea. My mother thought we were having a change of heart and stopped speaking to me until we got the ok from the town. So again, this is what she wanted. I did not take her in for any other reason than thinking this was the right thing to do.

As for the sale of her home. I have one sibling-a brother. My mother sold him her home for I believe about $75,000. This was probably somewhere around $25,000. less than full-market value. I didn’t think that was totally out of the norm for a parent to sell a home to a child at less than full price. She was able to move on with her life in her new home without any of the hassle or readying her home for sale and she helped give my brother a boost in starting off his life. There was no talk about was what fair between the two of us or anything like that at all and we weren’t dividing up my mother’s money as if she was going to die. She also had plenty of savings left to live on very comfortably. My brother and I are very close and aside from my husband and children are the only ones who “totally get” my mother.

My brother completely rehabbed the home and when he got married 3 years later, he and his wife lived in the home. By the time they had children, my mother was retired and helped care for his children a couple of days a week.

In 2006, my brother sold the home for significantly more than he paid for it. He had put in the work and home values had increased. He used this money to buy another house and moved out of the area.

Also after my mother retired, she began to winter in the south. As I mention before, she stays in a gated retirement community with others her age. She has been doing this for 13 years. It is not cheap. She spends somewhere in the neighborhood of $10,000. per year to do this. This means that she has spent approximately $130,000 from her savings in the past 13 years to do this. I don’t know what she has left. Could be $20,000. Could be $50,000. Could be $100,000. I don’t know. This is something that she thoroughly enjoys and looks forward to. It is also a three-month respite for me.

My mother did not provide childcare for me. This is not to say that she did not ever take care of my kids. But this was certainly not her job. She did not clean for me. For about the first 5-6 years that she lived with us, I cooked dinner for her each night and included her in the family dinner. As the years went on and there was no reciprocation from her, I began to feel like a doormat and we weened away from the dinner. I do not cook for her any longer. I do include her for all holidays. I never expected her to cook for me, clean for me, mow the lawn, etc., but I did expect for her to reciprocate when she could-such as providing a side dish or something for a holiday dinner, helping with the dishes. She does not.

As I mentioned, my brother and I are very close and on the same page with everything related to my mother. My brother has urged me many, many times to make a change for my own well-being and he would back me up. He and his wife have no interest in taking in my mom after seeing what I have dealt with. Even if they would, mom has no desire to go there. It would mean moving away from the area she has lived all of her life.

I feel that moving her into a 55+ community is still living up to my responsibility and obligation to my mom. She would be living in a safe, comfortable environment, close to her friends, with transportation to doctors and shopping. As I’ve said many times now, I am willing to help her out with expenses.


My brother doesn’t want anything from me or my mother. My brother has told me over and over again that I deserve everything and then some.

In reading your responses, it seems the overwhelming majority feel that she is entitled to a return on her investment-so that’s what we will do. I think one of the reasons that I was stuck was that one of the things that she will probably be angriest about would be that she would really have to watch her funds if she wanted to continue wintering in the south. I wasn’t sure if I was required to ensure that she would be able to continue to do that.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I am also scratching my head at the notion that, "if anything happens medically" to your mother after she moves to the 55+ place, you can "take her back in with you". Say what? I think you are being very naive there. Do you think that things will just go back to being how they were before? With her coming into your new house where you have no space for her? And with some of the hard and/or hurt feelings she has after she's been asked to leave by you and your DH? I can't see that that would really be a comfortable situation for her. Aside from all the issues that the complexity a medical situation can bring.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

OP:
I think that you should probably consider no longer engaging with everyone in this thread. You don't owe anyone any further JADE'ing (justify, argue, defend, explain).

Maybe some of us are actually trying to help her.

 

[sam_gordon]

I really have tried to do my due diligence.

Except talk to your mother. Have you done that yet? I think everyone was pretty much in agreement that should be done.

Downside is I would have had to raise my own children and clean my own house.

I don't feel like going back through 20 pages, but didn't you say earlier she wasn't that much help with your children and you didn't really benefit from having her in the house? Am I misremembering? I would consider having someone else cook and clean a benefit.

 

[Nancyg56]

A home has to be maintained to appreciate-who gets the appreciation?

You are clearly trying to defend your premise that you own the home, maintained the home, and all your mom did was pay for the addition. I just do not understand what you wanted her to do. Pay for the snow blower? Pitch in for True Green? She paid her freight up front. Had you needed to defund that addition, unless you had the cash in the bank, your interest on that amount would have been considerable.

Sorry, but it's hard to believe you're going to help your Mom financially, when you say your DH thinks you shouldn't give her anything out of the sell of the house. Your negative opinion about the way she spends money says a lot. I hoped this thread would convince you to try to get him to change his mind, until your most recent posts. It now appears you're trying to justify his opinion. For you Mom's sake, I continue to hope you'll find it within yourself to override your DH & do what's right for your Mom. You made her a promise that you should try to keep.

I agree. If the OP is plannign to assist Mom, why is it conditional, and it certainly is conditional? Does it depend on how much is left after the purchase of the new home? As a parent, if I have an understanding with an adult child and circumstances change, I better be treated as though I have the sense that God gave a goose. DO not tell me you will decide my circumstances based on your needs. Give me what I am entitled to and let me determine what is best for me.

Boy did I mess up! She could have stayed in her own home for 19 years and I would have had a much bigger inheritance! What was I thinking?

Are you sure about that? My mom stayed in her home, and we helped her maintain it. SHe had very limited resources. Anyway, as her health was dimishing it was clear she woudl need more care than we could give her. I was practically living there because I did not work outside the home, and my siblings were also there, but 24 hour care was going to be very hard. I cannot tell you how many people asked what we were doing to "protect" my mothers assets. WHAT????? SHe had paid her way through her entire life, and no way was she going on State so we could "protect" the equity in her home.

You talk as if your mother is already gone. She is not, and had she remained in her home, with no intervention from you and your brother in regards to turning the house over to you, you may not have gotten one dime. Your tone throughout this thread is that of a martyr. You may not recognize the value of what your mother did by turning over her home to you and your brother in whatever manner she did 19 years ago. This is what you seem to be missing. SHe trusted you and your brother. Had this life changing decision been different years ago, and Mom retained her own home her circumstances would certainly have been different, but you and your brother woudl also have experienced different financial results, not the least of which is this inheritance that you both recieved prior to her death.

You're obviously annoyed now and your tone has changed drastically. I understand you are upset and not getting the answers you want.

Please read again what I wrote. Nowhere did I say, or even insinuate, that you called her stupid.


You can be pissed at all of us who are questioning you, but you did owe your mom more. You owed her an open, honest conversation about what you expected out of your living arrangement years ago, strained relationship or not.

I edited out some of your post, but I agree with all of it.

OP- No one said you or your mother was "stupid" but many of us are having trouble with how your decision making process is taking place. I am a parent. I have 3 adult children, all are married. I love them, I trust them. I would NEVER turn my assets over to any of them for any reason, and I would never forgive any one of them if they decided that I was so incapable of making a decision about how and where I would live without including me.

My well meaning oldest son discussed how he and his wife would care for me in the event my own dear husband passed before me. I love that he and DDIL care, but I did have to break it to him that as much as I love him, he and she needed to trust that we had prepared for our (my as far as DH is concerned) future, and in the event circumstances changed we would sell the house and use our assets for our care. Not one of my children, not even my oldest who feels compelled to take care of all of us, would have ever been a part of my selling the home, moving in with any of them, and using part of the proceeds to upgrade their own home.

I do not for one minute believe that you should be responsible for you mother, but I find it reheprehensible that you participated in this long term living relationship that resulted from her giving up her home, and yet you feel that YOU will "find her a home" but have not yet disclosed to her you and your husband have decided to sell what is now HER home out from under her. All of your updates have not changed that you and your husband intend to blindside her and will already have made determined her future as well as your own. Can you not see that is the issue most peole have?

WE all see this through our own life experience so if we read into any of it, well that is the change you take when you post here.

 

[handinpocket]

Except talk to your mother. Have you done that yet? I think everyone was pretty much in agreement that should be done.


I don't feel like going back through 20 pages, but didn't you say earlier she wasn't that much help with your children and you didn't really benefit from having her in the house? Am I misremembering? I would consider having someone else cook and clean a benefit.

Yeah, OP said she couldn't even get her to cook a meal. I think there is sooooo much more to this story....sad, sad story.

 

[Nancyg56]

Yeah, OP said she couldn't even get her to cook a meal. I think there is sooooo much more to this story....sad, sad story.

There always is more. What I do not understand is why anyone who is comfortable with their decisions needs validation from anyone else.

 

[sunshinehighway]

So tell me how the number of siblings I have or don't have would have changed your opinion about anything? I already explained why I did that.

Yup_i said my mother thought it was permanent. Never said I discussed with her that it was permanent-but I did expect to be in this house permanently. I also said we never sat down and discussed any terms or what ifs (divorce, job relocation, etc).

Did not ask for additional living space and never posted that I asked for additional living space. I said i"it provided additional living space' due to the type of construction required by our town. An unfinished second floor that my husband and I finished later.

But you can keep filling in the blanks with whatever fits for you.

It's super shady. It's a dumb little thing to lie about and it instantly makes people wonder what other parts of story aren't really true.
It also appears as a way to make yourself seems so much more self sacrificing. You made it sound like the burden of your mother was left to you while several other people (your siblings) took their money and ran.
Saying she sold the house and gave them the proceeds makes it sound like they took a decent chunk of her money and helps justify you not giving her anything for the addition. That's very different from buying her house at a discount and later selling it for a profit. At one point you posted that the proceeds from the sale of the house went towards the addition. That's her selling the house and the proceeds going to you (in the form of improvement on your house) not your siblings (or sibling).
As another poster said, your are making yourself out to be a martyr. That rarely plays well.

 

[appleplie]

How can you say that? Are you independently wealthy? If not, I fail to see how you can make the statement that "She will be fine." You said earlier that you have absolutely no clue how much money she has left. If that's the truth, what if she's almost out of money? You honestly have enough money to pay for your new home plus rent on a 55+ community (which isn't cheap) for however long your mom lives? Five years? Ten years? Twenty years? You think you have resentment toward her now for not lifting a finger for her when she lived with you, how do you think you're going to feel paying her room and board every month?

Sp now I have to explain how I intend to do this because it's not CLEAR to you? And that's being helpful and non-judgmental??? I have to explain to you why she moved in to you because it's not CLEAR to you? I have to explain why she's going to move out because it's not CLEAR to you?

 

[cabanafrau]

Bingo!!!

Next question- How much do you think it would have cost to stay in her original home for 19 years?

How much do you think an apartment elsewhere would have cost for 19 years?

But with an apartment elsewhere she would have known the financial terms going in and been able to plan accordingly. By your own words you and your husband made the decision to take her in to make it easier on yourselves, with the understanding it was a forever arrangement.

 

[Tassy]

Long time lurker but had to post. OP, I admire you for having your mom live with you for 20+ years. It's not something I could have or would have even attempted. You have done more than enough. Help her get set up in a safe community, keep an eye on her-- but go live your life before it's too late.

 

[Nancyg56]

Sp now I have to explain how I intend to do this because it's not CLEAR to you? And that's being helpful and non-judgmental??? I have to explain to you why she moved in to you because it's not CLEAR to you? I have to explain why she's going to move out because it's not CLEAR to you?

YOU came here and asked for advice. YOU gave details in the original post and continued to add information that in several instances was contrary to YOUR OP. YOU indicated that YOUR Dh did not want any of the proceeds t go to your mother, and YOU stated YOU were not discussing any details her her in order to avoid a "temper tantrum".

What makes no sense s how you plan to go from keeping all the proceeds from the sale of your home to establishing Mom into a living community and taking care of her if you are not just going to give her any money gained from HER investment into what was supposed to be her home, as well as yours. YOUR continued added tidbits are making your OP as clear as quicksand, and that is why people ask you to explain. What YOU fail to understand is that no one here has a dog in your race, but since you came here asking for feedback, and since for some reason you seem to need validation for those of us who just don't roll the way your posts indicate that you do, you are angry when people ask for clarification.

I can assure you that as a 60 year old woman who has had to make sime gut wrenching decisions in my lifetime, I have never had to look back ask anyone to confirm that I made the right decision when it came to taking one dime from my family. My brother and sister in law were ont eh title of my Mom's house when they paid her mortgage off for her. Their name remained on the house until her death. Her will had been written over 25 years prior to her death, and never was changed after they paid her home off, leaving 1'2 to my brother, and 1/4 to my sister and to myself. This meant that upon her death, my brother would get 1/2 of the 1/3 that was her share, and my sister and I woudl split 1/4 each of that 1/3. I asked her oen day if that was what she wanted and she gave me a lesson I will never forget. I am going to share it with you:

"He knows what my intentions were and still are. If he chooses not to follow what I want, no good will come from his taking what was not meant to be his."

I told her I was fine with that, and we never said a word again, with my sister and I continuing to fund what needed to be done for her comfort and her well-being. Less than a week before my Mom passed on she asked to make a change, and wanted to incluse my oldest sister, who for reasons of her own she had deliberately written out. My sister in law brought her cousin, who was an attorney to her adn she simply added my older sister in. That was it. She could not change the title at that point even if she had chosen to do so.

After her passing we all sat at the table, the three of us and my sister in law. My older sister was not there, nor were my husabnd and DBIL. My brother told us that he had given thought to what Mom's will said, and knew what he and Sue could do, but they were not going to do that because my Mom would be ashamed of them, and they would be ashamed of themselves. We split the proceeds of the house 4 ways. The sale was very hard on my brother, and he took every offer and negotional personally. My sister and I told him we would support anything he wanted to do, no matter the end result. You see for us, this was not a house, but was our family home. My Mom loved living there, and it was opened to all of us, no questions asked.

You are going to have to make some very difficult decisions as you move forward and if nothing else is clear, the fact that you are trying to find a way to live with your choices are. So, use my mother's life lesson. Do the right thing, whatever that happens to be, because if you make another life changing decision and it backfires the way the first one did, you may not have the time to correct it. I do not knwo what the right decision is for your family, but I do knwo that if you and your husband make decisions for your mother and then present them to her as a done deal, you will probably be getting more issues thatn just questions from strangers.

You biggest financial challenge, beyond the whole moral discussion, will be your Mother's legal status in this house. I know that in the event she faces having to use State aid for her care there is a long lookback period. You are safe as far as the sale of her original home, but I am not sure what the legal impact of her investment in your home is. When you are advised to speak to an attorney, you should follow that advice. For both you and your mother's financial well being. You may not have any legal obligation, but since none of us know how any of this was done, we cannot tell you how this will impact you if she ever becomes unable to care for herself, and cannot pay for her care.

 

[cabanafrau]

With all due respect to your professional experience, I doubt that very many of us here have much concern at all that either scenario will ever befall us.

Did you possibly quote a different comment from me than the one you responded to? The one you quoted has no reference to my professional experience, and to be honest I don't understand your comment in context of what you're responding to.

Sadly, people who get taken advantage of didn't have a concern it would ever befall them. I've seen so much of it I think I'm numb to it -- until I find myself boiling with anger at some of the awfulness I've seen, or wind up giving myself a timeout in the restroom because a case actually upset me to the point I can't hold back the tears. One of the most common situations is a parent dies and the children regard the home and all assets as their inheritance -- instead of their surviving parent's home and possessions. My parents were in their sixties when my father passed over 15 years ago. To this day my mom has her home, their cottage, every penny and all possessions of my dad's -- aside from his clothing she donated. My brother and I will inherit those things someday, hopefully a very long time from now. Until then they absolutely belong to mom.

I have literally seen a family literally worth millions of dollars in court battling their elderly father's right to access money to replace the stove in his home. Dad and mom literally showered millions down on their children already via transferring the bulk of the family businesses and property into various funding mechanisms, leaving their home and a small share of finances to live off of and then the remainder to go into the family trust when dad passes. They actually told the judge that he didn't need to be spending $500 on a new stove because the oven and two burners up top still worked. They actually disputed the two "working" burners" were at risk of shocking anyone trying to use them. The legal battle on simply the issue of the stove cost well over 10k. The subsequent battle on the overall estate and the right to change the plan or declare dad incompetent has to be in the high six figures by now. I can understand with such a big estate making extensive plans and distributing large chunks while they're still alive to help their kids raise their families. I cannot understand the idea they felt it entitled them to everything as if both parents are already dead and buried.

 

[appleplie]

YOU came here and asked for advice. YOU gave details in the original post and continued to add information that in several instances was contrary to YOUR OP. YOU indicated that YOUR Dh did not want any of the proceeds t go to your mother, and YOU stated YOU were not discussing any details her her in order to avoid a "temper tantrum".

What makes no sense s how you plan to go from keeping all the proceeds from the sale of your home to establishing Mom into a living community and taking care of her if you are not just going to give her any money gained from HER investment into what was supposed to be her home, as well as yours. YOUR continued added tidbits are making your OP as clear as quicksand, and that is why people ask you to explain. What YOU fail to understand is that no one here has a dog in your race, but since you came here asking for feedback, and since for some reason you seem to need validation for those of us who just don't roll the way your posts indicate that you do, you are angry when people ask for clarification.

I can assure you that as a 60 year old woman who has had to make sime gut wrenching decisions in my lifetime, I have never had to look back ask anyone to confirm that I made the right decision when it came to taking one dime from my family. My brother and sister in law were ont eh title of my Mom's house when they paid her mortgage off for her. Their name remained on the house until her death. Her will had been written over 25 years prior to her death, and never was changed after they paid her home off, leaving 1'2 to my brother, and 1/4 to my sister and to myself. This meant that upon her death, my brother would get 1/2 of the 1/3 that was her share, and my sister and I woudl split 1/4 each of that 1/3. I asked her oen day if that was what she wanted and she gave me a lesson I will never forget. I am going to share it with you:

"He knows what my intentions were and still are. If he chooses not to follow what I want, no good will come from his taking what was not meant to be his."

I told her I was fine with that, and we never said a word again, with my sister and I continuing to fund what needed to be done for her comfort and her well-being. Less than a week before my Mom passed on she asked to make a change, and wanted to incluse my oldest sister, who for reasons of her own she had deliberately written out. My sister in law brought her cousin, who was an attorney to her adn she simply added my older sister in. That was it. She could not change the title at that point even if she had chosen to do so.

After her passing we all sat at the table, the three of us and my sister in law. My older sister was not there, nor were my husabnd and DBIL. My brother told us that he had given thought to what Mom's will said, and knew what he and Sue could do, but they were not going to do that because my Mom would be ashamed of them, and they would be ashamed of themselves. We split the proceeds of the house 4 ways. The sale was very hard on my brother, and he took every offer and negotional personally. My sister and I told him we would support anything he wanted to do, no matter the end result. You see for us, this was not a house, but was our family home. My Mom loved living there, and it was opened to all of us, no questions asked.

You are going to have to make some very difficult decisions as you move forward and if nothing else is clear, the fact that you are trying to find a way to live with your choices are. So, use my mother's life lesson. Do the right thing, whatever that happens to be, because if you make another life changing decision and it backfires the way the first one did, you may not have the time to correct it. I do not knwo what the right decision is for your family, but I do knwo that if you and your husband make decisions for your mother and then present them to her as a done deal, you will probably be getting more issues thatn just questions from strangers.

You biggest financial challenge, beyond the whole moral discussion, will be your Mother's legal status in this house. I know that in the event she faces having to use State aid for her care there is a long lookback period. You are safe as far as the sale of her original home, but I am not sure what the legal impact of her investment in your home is. When you are advised to speak to an attorney, you should follow that advice. For both you and your mother's financial well being. You may not have any legal obligation, but since none of us know how any of this was done, we cannot tell you how this will impact you if she ever becomes unable to care for herself, and cannot pay for her care.

I came here and asked for advice on how much of a lump sum I owed her. My husband thought zero-I wasn't sure (which is why I was asking for an opinion). This lump sum would be addition to whatever I was going to give her monthly. I think that was in the same paragraph. I have already said many, many, times that you have all convinced me that mom is deserving of more. You're beating a dead horse. I did not ask for any opinions on why I moved her in and why I think it would be best for all concerned why it's best that she move out. That's my concern and nobody else's. As far as talking to my mom about this-I found out 12 days ago that the move was a possibility. I will be talking to my mom this weekend-with my brother, sil and husband present. This move will not be taking place for at least 8 months-best case scenario. I have quite a bit of work to do to even put my house on the market-since this has not been a long plotted-plan.

 

[cabanafrau]

I came here and asked for advice on how much of a lump sum I owed her. My husband thought zero-I wasn't sure (which is why I was asking for an opinion). This lump sum would be addition to whatever I was going to give her monthly. I think that was in the same paragraph. I have already said many, many, times that you have all convinced me that mom is deserving of more. You're beating a dead horse. I did not ask for any opinions on why I moved her in and why I think it would be best for all concerned why it's best that she move out. That's my concern and nobody else's. As far as talking to my mom about this-I found out 12 days ago that the move was a possibility. I will be talking to my mom this weekend-with my brother, sil and husband present. This move will not be taking place for at least 8 months-best case scenario. I have quite a bit of work to do to even put my house on the market-since this has not been a long plotted-plan.

Were you expecting answers such as 20% of her original stake, 50%, 75%, 100%? You gave no actual numbers when you posted your question, and very little real information anyone could use to suggest a sum.