Marathon Weekend 2024

[Stitch&Co.]

By the way, for purely scientific purposes:
@DopeyBadger
Goofy bib 305XX
Corral C
No POT
Est 4:30-5:00

 

[Dopey 2020]

I’ve done a couple WDW races and don’t recall them. I’ve been to races where finishers get free beer - is that the case here too?

Been to a couple myself and very much enjoyed them but alas nothing free in Disney
they are readily available though and very tasty

 

[nancipants]

On that note, runDisney needs to figure out a way to delineate corral placement. Whether that is stretching POT’s out further to better align corrals B,C,D. Or some ingenious way to organize it better but (and I was running out of C) my corral way too big, way too congested and too much variance in runner speed. I want to be clear about this, I think anyone who has registered and wishes to run the race should, and regardless of running speed every person on the course has the right to be there and have a positive experience.

But today the course was so congested that it was basically impossible to maintain intervals I either had to go much slower than I wanted or move too far left, into the grass often to move at desired clip, but then when a walk phase started I was I the way of others. And I was trying to be respectful of all those runners who are much faster than me, of which there are many.

Way back in the day they used to break the corrals up from like A - P. Not that it was perfect but maybe that could allow for more correlation between runner speed and corral placement. Then folks would be running with like speed runners - good for the front, middle and back of the pack. Vent done…

I 1000% agree. And I say this as a slow run/walker. Even with a time limit, there were lots of people walking long stretches of the 10k and the course was so narrow in spots that they were stretched across the entire lane. It was impossible NOT to weave if I wanted to keep up with intervals. Not sure what they can do, but it doesn’t feel like they organized all the corrals by estimated time.

 

[Barca33Runner]

Way behind, the thread is active!!! I wonder why?

I want to say thank you for the effort runDisney put forth to still have a race. In the end the storm did not even compare to 2017, but I think they made the right decision based on the forecast. Runner, worker and volunteer safety is more important than a race, period.

I finished my miles at Wilderness Lodge and though the numbers were light it was nice to get cheers, high fives and smiles from my fellow very wet runners!

I LOVED that Baloo was on the course, and thanks to my daughter for giving me the push to get that picture. The line was crazy long and I would not have otherwise.

On that note, runDisney needs to figure out a way to delineate corral placement. Whether that is stretching POT’s out further to better align corrals B,C,D. Or some ingenious way to organize it better but (and I was running out of C) my corral way too big, way too congested and too much variance in runner speed. I want to be clear about this, I think anyone who has registered and wishes to run the race should, and regardless of running speed every person on the course has the right to be there and have a positive experience.

But today the course was so congested that it was basically impossible to maintain intervals I either had to go much slower than I wanted or move too far left, into the grass often to move at desired clip, but then when a walk phase started I was I the way of others. And I was trying to be respectful of all those runners who are much faster than me, of which there are many.

Way back in the day they used to break the corrals up from like A - P. Not that it was perfect but maybe that could allow for more correlation between runner speed and corral placement. Then folks would be running with like speed runners - good for the front, middle and back of the pack. Vent done…

Good luck marathoners!!

It’s a little shocking to me that they used to have such an organized and expansive POT system, accepting times out to at least 2:45 for a half (and I think I remember 3:00 at one point). It was, in my opinion, much better 9back in those days. Running other races and locking in any type of POT was valued and runner safety took precedence over runner feelings.

This system is, unquestionably, less work for them and more egalitarian (then again, do people really feel better about being in Wave 6 of corral F vs. Corral P?); unfortunately, neither of those things are really beneficial to most runners. I ran my first Half at Disney from corral L, my first Marathon the following year from corral M and my first Dopey from corral G. Those were appropriate for my lack of experience and pace, did not hinder me from achieving my goals, and were never something I felt the slightest bit of shame about.

 

[camaker]

Way back in the day they used to break the corrals up from like A - P. Not that it was perfect but maybe that could allow for more correlation between runner speed and corral placement. Then folks would be running with like speed runners - good for the front, middle and back of the pack. Vent done…

I'll start by agreeing wholeheartedly that the race experience would be better with more accurate differentiation of and corralling by pace. The problem that comes into it, is how to do it effectively from both an accuracy and cost standpoint.

In my experience, the A-P corral system didn't offer any real additional benefits to the large corrals with mini-waves. After the PoT corrals, of which there were 1 or 2 more in that system, it was still an honor-based crapshoot of assignments and all the problems we currently see were present. The advantages (to rD, at least) are that the large corrals with mini-waves take less materials to set up and fewer staff to administer, while still allowing the more gradual release of runners into the course that the A-P system offered. Corral-jumping was much more of a problem with the A-P system, as well.

The problem could largely be helped at the front end of the field by extending the PoT cutoff, allowing more granularity in the early corrals. That comes at a cost, though, as rD then has thousands more PoTs to check after the cutoff date. There was also a fair amount of documented "bib muling" from people trying to get a coveted, but undeserved, PoT for use. I can't say exactly how widespread the issue was, but it existed. You don't really hear much of it with the tighter PoT limits now, though.

It's very hard to see a solution for the later corrals where you get an incendiary combination of new, fast runners who haven't had a chance to run a PoT race along with slower runners who want to get a few pictures in while staying ahead of the balloon ladies. The whole problem is exacerbated by the fact that these newer runners are also far less likely to be versed in race etiquette. The honor system of putting in estimated times is a game at this point, where the vast majority of runners just pick the fastest non-PoT time to get as far ahead at the start as possible. Honesty is actually penalized in the current system!

Given RunDisney's status as a gateway drug into distance running and its beginner-friendliness, it's just not really possible to require official PoT type info from people running their first official races, in many instances. Even if you did, I'd guess verifying that many additional submissions would be infeasible.

I guess this has really just turned into a long-winded essay that I agree with you in principle, but I don't see a practical solution that would address the area of greatest need.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

So I agree that they could do better with the POT system. Certainly they could accept slower times and use those to sort runners farther back, and they could take POT for the 5K/10K and not just rely on the pace people say they're going to run.

However, I don't think it would have as much of an impact as it might seem at first glance. First, character stops mix up the groups more than in most races. I started in A this morning and gradually moved backward in the overall mass of people as I waited, and then I had to do a whole lot of weaving to run at what was a pretty reasonable pace for me. If you have some people stopping for some characters, they won't stay in the same order they started even if they had been lined up perfectly by their expected pace.

Second, your PR POT isn't necessarily the pace you're actually going to run at Disney (even in the parts where you're actually running). I don't think I'm the only one who looks at Disney as a fun race most of the time, not a PR attempt.

With those factors making a more "accurate" corral system less effective, is it worth it for runDisney to put the time and effort into improving on what they have now? Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[The Expert]

I'll start by agreeing wholeheartedly that the race experience would be better with more accurate differentiation of and corralling by pace. The problem that comes into it, is how to do it effectively from both an accuracy and cost standpoint.

In my experience, the A-P corral system didn't offer any real additional benefits to the large corrals with mini-waves. After the PoT corrals, of which there were 1 or 2 more in that system, it was still an honor-based crapshoot of assignments and all the problems we currently see were present. The advantages (to rD, at least) are that the large corrals with mini-waves take less materials to set up and fewer staff to administer, while still allowing the more gradual release of runners into the course that the A-P system offered. Corral-jumping was much more of a problem with the A-P system, as well.

The problem could largely be helped at the front end of the field by extending the PoT cutoff, allowing more granularity in the early corrals. That comes at a cost, though, as rD then has thousands more PoTs to check after the cutoff date. There was also a fair amount of documented "bib muling" from people trying to get a coveted, but undeserved, PoT for use. I can't say exactly how widespread the issue was, but it existed. You don't really hear much of it with the tighter PoT limits now, though.

It's very hard to see a solution for the later corrals where you get an incendiary combination of new, fast runners who haven't had a chance to run a PoT race along with slower runners who want to get a few pictures in while staying ahead of the balloon ladies. The whole problem is exacerbated by the fact that these newer runners are also far less likely to be versed in race etiquette. The honor system of putting in estimated times is a game at this point, where the vast majority of runners just pick the fastest non-PoT time to get as far ahead at the start as possible. Honesty is actually penalized in the current system!

Given RunDisney's status as a gateway drug into distance running and its beginner-friendliness, it's just not really possible to require official PoT type info from people running their first official races, in many instances. Even if you did, I'd guess verifying that many additional submissions would be infeasible.

I guess this has really just turned into a long-winded essay that I agree with you in principle, but I don't see a practical solution that would address the area of greatest need.

Great analysis @camaker

One other factor in play is that even with a POT or ability to run fast(er), many runners approach rD races more casually and often move slower than they are capable of moving. That's something rD can't control regardless of how much time and effort they put into placement.

Edit: Looks like @WillRunForPizza and I were posting at the same time. The stops definitely mix things up quick, too. I start in the back of B as a club runner, but end up finishing with runners much farther back often. I'm not fast so once I'm behind I'm not catching up to many people.

 

[camaker]

So I agree that they could do better with the POT system. Certainly they could accept slower times and use those to sort runners farther back, and they could take POT for the 5K/10K and not just rely on the pace people say they're going to run.

However, I don't think it would have as much of an impact as it might seem at first glance. First, character stops mix up the groups more than in most races. I started in A this morning and gradually moved backward in the overall mass of people as I waited, and then I had to do a whole lot of weaving to run at what was a pretty reasonable pace for me. If you have some people stopping for some characters, they won't stay in the same order they started even if they had been lined up perfectly by their expected pace.

Second, your PR POT isn't necessarily the pace you're actually going to run at Disney (even in the parts where you're actually running). I don't think I'm the only one who looks at Disney as a fun race most of the time, not a PR attempt.

With those factors making a more "accurate" corral system less effective, is it worth it for runDisney to put the time and effort into improving on what they have now? Maybe. Maybe not.

Great points! Especially about the mixing effects of the character stops! The prevalence of challenge running also plays heavily into people not necessarily putting their speediest foot forward, as well.

 

[jrsharp21]

Anyone know if they have moleskin at the first aid tent by the bag check?

 

[Barca33Runner]

To add to my previous reply, I believe the 5k and 10k will always be chaotic cluster-bleeps regardless of how they split the corrals. It’s too many people on small mileage spreads.

The Half and the Full I think there is ample anecdotal evidence that the earlier system was received better by most runners and worked a little better for those distances where runners could more easily be spread across many miles. I hold no expectation that rD will go back to that system though because the current one is unquestionably easier for them to implement. Honestly, I think they only have PoT at all now is so that they don’t have to figure out which of the 80% of entrants who picked the lowest expected finish time for the Half and the Full to actually put into corral A and B.

 

[Tall Todd]

Do the race shirts have the park icons on the sleeve this year? My last marathon weekend in 2022 didn't.

 

[superchime]

Has anyone been able to get runner tracking to work? I would really like to track the 7:00 pacers but I really can’t figure out how to do it. I!made it to the runner tracking site and found the pacers I want to track but where / how do you select tracking and enter your info for text alerts? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

There doesn't seem to be the option to get alerts this time. I think it was turned on at the last minute during Wine and Dine, so there's always a chance they'll activate it tomorrow but as of right now it's not there.

 

[accm]

I’ll also add that I don’t remember the congestion being nearly as bad last year, other than on the on/off ramps. I think the problem with the race this year is that there wasn’t as much time for the crowds to naturally disperse.

 

[Grabnar]

Good morning and good luck to everyone

 

[jpeterson]

Good morning and good luck to everyone

So early...
I'm ready to not be up at 2:00 am

 

[jrsharp21]

Who needs sleep? Will one hour do? Lol. Good luck everyone!

 

[Grabnar]

Bree’s list looks right based off of the photo ops here

 

[RuntheMouse]

Good morning everyone! Enjoy your victory lap, you earned it!

 

[RunWI1265]

happy marathon morning everyone! Good luck today! I’ll look for you @The Expert at the contemporary. Still have no clue what my race plan is. I guess I’ll see how I feel once I get going. Heading out of corral B so I’m interested to see what the experience is compared to my usual corral C.

 

[The Expert]

I'm right at the end of the cones, in the median, by the Disney buses only sign. Directly in front of the Contemporary. Chiefs shirt and red ears.