Moms of Liberty - Hypocrisy at its worst

[Kwami]

How about instead of banning the books, put them in their own section in the library. As part of the paperwork at the beginning of school, parents can sign off on their kids being allowed in that area? I'm not crazy about the idea, but seems a reasonable compromise. Kids still have access (or not) to the books, depending on what THEIR parents decide. Isn't that the point?

There are two problems with this approach. Scholastic recently tried this with their book fairs before deciding that it was a bad idea.

First, some parents will argue that you're "othering" these books and the content within them and making them seem "weird" or "bad" or "not normal". When it comes to books about homosexuality and race, that's not a great idea.

Second, some parents will argue that by moving these books into a special, restricted section, you're just making kids want to read them even more. Like the "adults only" section at the video rental store when we were kids.

 

[georgina]

i had previously read a story and just went back to find it - about a young girl who read It's Perfectly Normal and it prompted her to tell her mother she was being sexually abused. (Dad went to prison)

https://ncac.org/news/supporters-rally-around-its-perfectly-normal

 

[sam_gordon]

There are two problems with this approach. Scholastic recently tried this with their book fairs before deciding that it was a bad idea.

First, some parents will argue that you're "othering" these books and the content within them and making them seem "weird" or "bad" or "not normal". When it comes to books about homosexuality and race, that's not a great idea.

I thought about that, but thought maybe with other books put in there, that would help. Maybe not.

For that matter, keep the books in whatever "normal" area. Put a colored sticker on the spine of the book. If they try to check it out, the librarian checks their name against a list.

Second, some parents will argue that by moving these books into a special, restricted section, you're just making kids want to read them even more. Like the "adults only" section at the video rental store when we were kids.

To that argument, I'd say "isn't banning them doing the same thing?".

 

[robinb]

Not sure if this is what you’re asking for, and this was quoted from one of the top hits in a Google search. I have not read these books to verify or disprove the information below:

“top 10 most-removed books.

“This Book Is Gay” provides a how-to guide to find strangers for sex on gay sex apps. “Out of Darkness” contains a rape. “l8r g8r” contains discussions of oral sex. “All Boys Aren’t Blue” contains underage incest. “It’s Perfectly Normal” contains drawings of children masturbating. “Lawn Boy” contains a passage about 10-year-old boys performing oral sex on each other. “Jack of Hearts” talks about a condom that is “covered in s—-.” “Crank” details a meth-fueled rape. “Lucky” also details a rape. And “A Court of Mist and Fury,” tame by comparison, contains an extremely explicit sexual passage.”

FWIW that quote is directly from the Heritage Foundation, supposedly listing the top 10 banned books according to PEN.

Here is the list:
https://pen.org/banned-book-list-2023/

It includes authors such as Toni Morrison and John Green. Many of the books have been made into movies and TV series.

The A Court of Thorns and Roses series by Sarah J. Maas (and the rest of the series) keeps on showing up on Libby, my library's app for borrowing e-books and and audiobooks. I think I'll give it a try since two books in the series clock in at #3 and #10.

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

I read your previous post. I'm hoping someone who actually supports these bans (if I understand your posts, you don't) would share their view points.

Your example of an alcohol vending machine is an interesting one. BUT there are parents who are OK with children (even elementary age) having sips of alcohol. Don't THOSE parents get to decide what's good for THEIR kids?

How about instead of banning the books, put them in their own section in the library. As part of the paperwork at the beginning of school, parents can sign off on their kids being allowed in that area? I'm not crazy about the idea, but seems a reasonable compromise. Kids still have access (or not) to the books, depending on what THEIR parents decide. Isn't that the point?

True about parents approving sips of alcohol. I’ve seen it. Probably we all have. In this comparison, would it be stretch to equate “sips of alcohol” with the “biology of reproduction”. And then maybe equating the more explicit aspects of sexual relationships as described in some of the books in question to consuming larger quantities of alcohol? I don’t think many parents on either side of the book removal argument (or the sipping alcohol argument) would approve of their elementary age child consuming more and more copious amounts of alcohol. Why then, is the same logic applied universally to children’s book content?

About moving the books to a separate section of the library….not sure how that would turn out. I can imagine some that are in support of the material might say they feel as though the material is being treated unfairly. As if castigated to the far off, dimly-lit annex of the library.

Also, my own words have me wondering. “Those is support of the material”. Are those who are vocally in support of even the more explicit content actually purchasing and providing this content to their own children? What if one of their children received one of these books as a holiday or birthday gift from, let’s say, a family friend. Would that same currently vocally-supportive parent have no problem with their own child owning and reading the book? Or, what if some random person decides, out of the kindness of their own heart to start handing out some of the more explicit books at their local playgrounds and little league parks? Would that person be welcomed in the community?

 

[Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL]

FWIW that quote is directly from the Heritage Foundation, supposedly listing the top 10 banned books according to PEN.

Here is the list:
https://pen.org/banned-book-list-2023/

It includes authors such as Toni Morrison and John Green. Many of the books have been made into movies and TV series.

The A Court of Thorns and Roses series by Sarah J. Maas (and the rest of the series) keeps on showing up on Libby, my library's app for borrowing e-books and and audiobooks. I think I'll give it a try since two books in the series clock in at #3 and #10.

Okay thank you. Not sure what to think about some of the books being made into movies. Is that bar we have set for what’s appropriate for children? Genuine question.

Are you an adult? When you say “my library” are you referring to the public library or your local school library?

 

[robinb]

Your first sentence leads me to believe you would be in support of the bill if it did, in fact, only apply and will only ever apply to K-3rd grade. Is this correct? Hypothetically speaking?

Let me be specific: no one wants smut in their 3rd grade classroom and no one teaches smut in a 3rd grade classroom. I don't believe in book bans and I don't believe in restricting what teachers can teach. I believe there are age appropriate ways to discuss LBGTQ relationships in the lower grades and a more open and also age appropriate way to discuss them in the upper grades.

No, I don’t think they mean that kind of porn.

Well, that's the kind of "porn" which was banned in Florida.

 

[sam_gordon]

Well, I'm assuming no one is advocating Hustler, Playboy, Penthouse, etc should be put in school libraries. Or, if you want to stick with books, how about the 50 Shades of Gray series?

I think there's a benefit to kids being able to find books on their own. I probably wouldn't purchase the books for my kids, not because I don't want them to read them, but because I don't know that they'd be interested (they probably wouldn't be, they're not readers like I am).

And again, do these parents not trust their own kids to not pick up "improper" books? If you teach your kids well, what are you (general) worried about?

 

[Kwami]

I thought about that, but thought maybe with other books put in there, that would help. Maybe not.

For that matter, keep the books in whatever "normal" area. Put a colored sticker on the spine of the book. If they try to check it out, the librarian checks their name against a list.

To that argument, I'd say "isn't banning them doing the same thing?".

I'm not taking the side of the crazy people. I'm just putting forth the arguments against separating books. They're not all good arguments. It's often hard to find any logic in their nonsense.

 

[nancipants]

My best friend was reading Stephen King at 8 years old and she turned out fine.

My belief is if you’re at the reading level to read it, you should be able to read it. And hopefully, if you have a good relationship with your kid, they’ll talk to you about it. I read a horror book with some very questionable scenes when I was 12 and passed it on to my dad because I thought he’d like it, too. He did, and nothing was said about those scenes, because he knew I was mature enough to read them.

ETA (because my phone messed up): the other problem with the “don’t say gay” bill is that it’s extremely vague and leads a lot to intepretation. Some people might think a gay teacher mentioning a spouse is innocuous. Others might try to get the teacher fired.

 

[john7994]

I don’t think people are crazy for ensuring age appropriate content in school libraries - but I do have to laugh with the ubiquitous access to devices/internet children have today that libraries are the bigger problem. I guess we should have canceled the Phoenicians and their alphabet along with all the cave painters long ago …thanks Phoenicians!

But let’s face it, there wasn’t rampant smut and pornography being pushed in the school’s libraries anyway. I am sure this or that book may have made it through somewhere - but it isn’t really about just regular old sexual content that some people are inflamed about exposing children too - is it? Let’s be real where the focus is … which back to the OPs topic does make for an interesting headline.

 

[Sweettears]

Can you quote some examples or evidence of what’s being disseminated?

And you know for a fact that these books were in a school library?

 

[sam_gordon]

And you know for a fact that these books were in a school library?

Did you mean to quote yourself? Lol

 

[Sweettears]

And you know for a fact that these books were in a school library?

Didn’t quote the right PP obviously but this whole arguement/discussion is amazing that it is.taking place in my life time. Are we that stupid as acollective that we need someone (not very bright or well intentioned) to tell or regulate what we should read or allow our children to hear. Holy crap I can’t believe these things are even being discussed much less regulated.

 

[Sweettears]

Did you mean to quote yourself? Lol

Nope read on

 

[Sweettears]

Did you mean to quote yourself? Lol

Thanks Sam

 

[MillauFr]

Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

Southernmiss, with the correct answer as usual.

 

[Sweettears]

I don’t care which party it’s coming from. Nor do I care if it’s trump Biden desantis whatever. I have a brain and my own sense of morals. Closing your eyes and blindly following any of these self interested morons is a fools venture.

 

[OKW8297]

Bridget Ziegler has made it her focus to ban teachers from speaking about LBGTQ issues in schools and to remove LBGTQ books from Florida schools. I find it ironic that she has been in relationship with a woman while actively dismantling support for LBGTQ students in her county and state. Rules for thee, but not for me.

Harassment of trans people, etc. yup. If this is true she doesn’t live in a glass house but a glass castle.

 

[ChrisFL]

Moms of Liberty is accomplishing a lot.

horrifying