Mosque shooting

[declansdad]

A terrorist: a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

A mass murderer: a person who murders a large number of people.

By choosing a mosque and the random Muslim worshipers within as his target, this mass murderer became a terrorist by definition. If he had instead killed six members of his own family, then he'd be just a mass murderer. (By the way, the Charleston church shooter is also a terrorist, and should have been referred to as such.)

So is a mass murder with its basis in hate an act of terrorism?

 

[Magpie]

So is a mass murder with its basis in hate an act of terrorism?

Depends. Are we talking hatred against a particular race, or religion, with roots in political or social policy? Or are we talking a more personal kind of hatred, such as the hatred a person might hold toward his employer?

Killing your boss and coworkers - not terrorism.

Killing your teacher and classmates - not terrorism.

Killing random strangers in a convoluted plot to eventually kill your ex-wife - not terrorism.

Killing female engineering students at L'ecole Polytechnique because you hate feminists - terrorism.

Killing black people to try to start a race war - terrorism.

Killing Muslim people because you object to their presence in your country - terrorism.

 

[declansdad]

Depends. Are we talking hatred against a particular race, or religion, with roots in political or social policy? Or are we talking a more personal kind of hatred, such as the hatred a person might hold toward his employer?

Killing your boss and coworkers - not terrorism.

Killing your teacher and classmates - not terrorism.

Killing random strangers in a convoluted plot to eventually kill your ex-wife - not terrorism.

Killing female engineering students at L'ecole Polytechnique because you hate feminists - terrorism.

Killing black people to try to start a race war - terrorism.

Killing Muslim people because you object to their presence in your country - terrorism.

Thanks. I agree with your examples but they don't seem to be always applied that way.

Glad they caught the turd right away so much of the speculation as to who committed this cowardly act dies right away.

 

[luvsJack]

I was very pleased to see all parties in the House of Commons united yesterday, with regards to the shooting. No one (in Canadian leadership, anyway) attempted to use it in a political manner. That could conceivably change in the weeks to come, but I hope not. And, given whom the perpetrator appears to be, I think I have reason to be hopeful. He's a terrorist, sure, but not the kind who can be stopped at borders or identified by race, religion or any other means.

I must say Canada and her leaders have handled this well, imo. Here in the US the problem is the whole dang country. We would argue over the color of the sky if we thought we could blame its color on our leader.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

It's shameful that it's not getting 24/7 coverage like every time a Muslim is the suspect.

Not saying that it needs 24/7 coverage..it's just blatant that it's not deemed as newsworthy.

I suspect it's more a case of US news ignoring a Canadian tragedy. If it had happened halfway around the World, we'd be hearing even less about it.

 

[Magpie]

Thanks. I agree with your examples but they don't seem to be always applied that way.

Glad they caught the turd right away so much of the speculation as to who committed this cowardly act dies right away.

Yep, he called and turned himself in, which is something that strikes me as both very Canadian and further confirmation of the fact that this was an act of terrorism.

 

[smiths02]

Depends. Are we talking hatred against a particular race, or religion, with roots in political or social policy? Or are we talking a more personal kind of hatred, such as the hatred a person might hold toward his employer?

Killing your boss and coworkers - not terrorism.

Killing your teacher and classmates - not terrorism.

Killing random strangers in a convoluted plot to eventually kill your ex-wife - not terrorism.

Killing female engineering students at L'ecole Polytechnique because you hate feminists - terrorism.

Killing black people to try to start a race war - terrorism.

Killing Muslim people because you object to their presence in your country - terrorism.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I am just wondering...
Are you talking a dictionary definition or legal definition?
How are you differentiating terrorism from hate crime?

 

[Magpie]

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I am just wondering...
Are you talking a dictionary definition or legal definition?
How are you differentiating terrorism from hate crime?

You know, I'm just a reading tutor with access to Google. I imagine you are just as capable as I am, of doing your own research.

However...

Dictionary:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/terrorism

noun
1.
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially forpolitical purposes.
2.
the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3.
a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Legal:

Under Canadian law, for an act to be considered terrorism it must include:

-A serious act of violence

-An act committed against non-combatants or civilians

-Carried out for some kind of ideological motivation

Although the final point remains to be proven in a court of law, I think we are very safe in saying that the mosque shooting was an act of terrorism. Especially considering the accused is said to have made some very clear ideological statements to legal authorities already.

 

[smiths02]

I did look it up after I posted and for the United States at least (which I know this is Canadian law in this case), the prosecutors very rarely add hate crimes or terrorism to domestic cases which already involve murder even if they fit the definition. I'm sure some of it is political, but some of it also looked like an effort to have less for the prosecution to prove.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

You know, I'm just a reading tutor with access to Google. I imagine you are just as capable as I am, of doing your own research.

However...

Dictionary:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/terrorism

noun
1.
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially forpolitical purposes.
2.
the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3.
a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Legal:

Under Canadian law, for an act to be considered terrorism it must include:

-A serious act of violence

-An act committed against non-combatants or civilians

-Carried out for some kind of ideological motivation

Although the final point remains to be proven in a court of law, I think we are very safe in saying that the mosque shooting was an act of terrorism. Especially considering the accused is said to have made some very clear ideological statements to legal authorities already.

I didn't come up with the Canadian law example when I googled it so bless your heart for showing all us non-google experts the definition.

 

[DizBelle]

A terrorist: a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

A mass murderer: a person who murders a large number of people.

By choosing a mosque and the random Muslim worshipers within as his target, this mass murderer became a terrorist by definition. If he had instead killed six members of his own family, then he'd be just a mass murderer. (By the way, the Charleston church shooter is also a terrorist, and should have been referred to as such.)

Unless there were political aims with the choice of a Mosque, it wouldn't be terrorism by your definition.

 

[LisaR]

I suspect it's more a case of US news ignoring a Canadian tragedy. If it had happened halfway around the World, we'd be hearing even less about it.

I don't think that for a minute. This tragedy is directly connected to the US. This isn't some random thing that happened.

 

[cabanafrau]

I didn't come up with the Canadian law example when I googled it so bless your heart for showing all us non-google experts the definition.

Not entirely positive, but I believe Google results may not be entirely the same if one is undertaking the search in Canada as opposed to the U.S., which I believe is the case with Magpie.

As far as another slaughter of innocent people, it makes me heartsick. I dream of a day when the news is filled with tales of generosity, positivity and peacefulness. Sure would be a nice change.

 

[Magpie]

I didn't come up with the Canadian law example when I googled it so bless your heart for showing all us non-google experts the definition.

Strike that. (I deleted a return "bless your heart", this is rewritten.)

Sorry if I come across as a bit cranky. I just realized I really don't like feeling as if I'm getting roped into a debate on semantics, when it has to do with something that hits as close to home as this. As far as I'm concerned, this was terrorism, plain and simple. It seems as obvious to me now, as it did to my prime minister when he said this, yesterday...

"It was with shock and sadness that Canadians heard about a despicable act of terror last night in Quebec City.

By current counts, six people worshipping at the Quebec City Islamic Cultural Centre have lost their lives, with many others seriously injured.

This was a group of innocents targeted for practicing their faith. Make no mistake – this was a terrorist attack.

It was an attack on our most intrinsic and cherished values as Canadians – values of openness, diversity, and freedom of religion."

If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

 

[Magpie]

Unless there were political aims with the choice of a Mosque, it wouldn't be terrorism by your definition.

The "political aims" (as expressed on the shooter's Facebook page and in statements to police) appear to be as clear as those in any other recent terrorist attack. It's really not been a matter of debate in the Canadian media. And I'm honestly rather surprised people on the Dis are wanting to dive into a detailed discussion on whether it was a real act of terrorism or "just" a mass murder.

 

[DizBelle]

The "political aims" (as expressed on the shooter's Facebook page and in statements to police) appear to be as clear as those in any other recent terrorist attack. It's really not been a matter of debate in the Canadian media. And I'm honestly rather surprised people on the Dis are wanting to dive into a detailed discussion on whether it was a real act of terrorism or "just" a mass murder.

I was not aware of any statements by the monster that did this so if they did say it was because they were Muslim, then I would agree it is an act of terror.

 

[sunshinehighway]

The "political aims" (as expressed on the shooter's Facebook page and in statements to police) appear to be as clear as those in any other recent terrorist attack. It's really not been a matter of debate in the Canadian media. And I'm honestly rather surprised people on the Dis are wanting to dive into a detailed discussion on whether it was a real act of terrorism or "just" a mass murder.

Are you really surprised though?

 

[mnrose]

Yes, because when white guys kill a bunch of people it's "just" a mass murder by a deranged individual. No need to tarnish an entire group of people for the actions of one mad man.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I'm really sad to hear about this. I do agree it's not getting a huge amount of news attention. It was on my local news' websites but it wasn't really front page for long and is now buried amongst other news.

 

[aristocatz]

So is a mass murder with its basis in hate an act of terrorism?

Those who knew him described him as a white nationalist, so in this case, yes.