NCL leaves passengers behind in Africa

[RedHead0186]

The people involved did an interview on Today and they are pretty entitled. They actually said something about the cruise line following rules and policy "too rigidly" and that NCL needs to understand that they (passengers) are the customers (basically, customer is always right).

I have a hard time feeling great sympathy for them here, because they were told the all-aboard and missed it, and have backed into how the cruise line was wrong.

yeah, I saw that interview. They also said something about "duty of care." Came across as very entitled.

The wife even said she wasn't sure she would get back on the ship because she didn't trust the cruise line. Reports today indicate that they all did get back on board (except of course the woman who was injured and was flown back to the US).

 

[Lesverts]

I did look at the cruises NCL offers for Africa. Lots of interesting stuff. Probably one of the easiest ways to see Sao Tome and Principe, Cabo Verde, Seychelles, Mauritius, Reunion, Mayotte.

 

[Pens Fan]

I read over on Cruise Critic that NCL agreed to compensate them for part of their travel. They were originally supposed to get back on the ship in Gambia but the ship could not dock due to sea / weather conditions. So they had to travel to Senegal and they got back on there. NCL agreed to compensate them for the travel between Gambia and Senegal, but not the costs getting from Sao Tome (where they missed the ship) to Gambia.

I think that's pretty darn generous of NCL especially considering the sympathy tour these folks have embarked on.

Regarding the Today show interview (insert major eye roll here), later on in the show the story was mentioned again and Al Roker called them out for being late and had zero sympathy for them. You know it's bad when Al Roker turns against you .

 

[MsChristy12]

I read over on Cruise Critic that NCL agreed to compensate them for part of their travel. They were originally supposed to get back on the ship in Gambia but the ship could not dock due to sea / weather conditions. So they had to travel to Senegal and they got back on there. NCL agreed to compensate them for the travel between Gambia and Senegal, but not the costs getting from Sao Tome (where they missed the ship) to Gambia.

I think that's pretty darn generous of NCL especially considering the sympathy tour these folks have embarked on.

Regarding the Today show interview (insert major eye roll here), later on in the show the story was mentioned again and Al Roker called them out for being late and had zero sympathy for them. You know it's bad when Al Roker turns against you .

Definitely a fair compensation. Al Roker....

 

[mjkacmom]

I believe one was pregnant, one in a wheelchair, and the coast guard expected to board them this way? https://maritime-executive.com/arti...ot-ladder-accident-while-boarding-cruise-ship

 

[jdb in AZ]

I believe one was pregnant, one in a wheelchair, and the coast guard expected to board them this way? https://maritime-executive.com/arti...ot-ladder-accident-while-boarding-cruise-ship

I'm wondering how the wheel chair passenger got into the NCL tender to get off the ship in the first place. Most cruise lines "discourage" disabled passengers from tendering.

Years ago DH and I were on an NCL cruise which was docked in a port and the gangway slipped. The crew quickly put it back in place but instead of testing it out, they watched while a passenger tried to disembark. The gangway slipped and her leg was caught between the ship and the gangway. Fortunately she wasn't hurt, but it didn't endear us to NCL and I sure wouldn't want their crew's "help" in getting to/from a tender.

While I'm not sympathetic to the entitled people on the African cruise, they at least helped the woman with the stroke make arrangements to get back to California.

 

[SteveMouse]

Tendering is port-specific. Most ships don't like to or can't accommodate wheelchairs when the tenders being used are the ship's lifeboats. If other boats are used, such as at Half Moon Cay, they may be explicitly designed to accommodate wheelchairs on both the ship and shore ends of the trip.

NCL's private island in The Bahamas uses custom boats that (at least used fo) land directly on the beach and don't accommodate wheelchairs.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Most ships don't like to or can't accommodate wheelchairs when the tenders being used are the ship's lifeboats.

That would seem rather counterintuitive wouldn't you think? A lifeboat that a cruise company won't use for those with mobility issues? How else is the passenger going to get off the ship in case of an emergency? At that point the cruise line should full stop deny a passenger in a wheelchair access to the cruise itself as you sometimes find with those who are blind as it means the cruise line can't ensure safety to the passenger.

On all the Seabourn ships sans the two Expedition ships that primarily use zodiacs the tenders are the lifeboats and they do carry those in wheelchairs. The inside has steps down on both sides of the opening along with several fold up benches, when there is a passenger in a wheelchair they keep them on the that level.

 

[Lesverts]

I read over on Cruise Critic that NCL agreed to compensate them for part of their travel. They were originally supposed to get back on the ship in Gambia but the ship could not dock due to sea / weather conditions. So they had to travel to Senegal and they got back on there. NCL agreed to compensate them for the travel between Gambia and Senegal, but not the costs getting from Sao Tome (where they missed the ship) to Gambia.

I think that's pretty darn generous of NCL especially considering the sympathy tour these folks have embarked on.

Regarding the Today show interview (insert major eye roll here), later on in the show the story was mentioned again and Al Roker called them out for being late and had zero sympathy for them. You know it's bad when Al Roker turns against you .

Probably because it would not cost much. Banjul, the Gambia to Dakar, Senegal is about 340km. I mean all of the Gambia is inside Senegal. One of the weirdest border situations there is. Just looking at the cruise, there is a pretty big 3 sea days and a stop in Abidjan between Sao Tome and Banjul. You generally have to have a yellow fever vaccination to enter Cote d'Ivoire. I am wondering if there is more to this story. And paperwork was not in order somewhere.

 

[brentm77]

That would seem rather counterintuitive wouldn't you think? A lifeboat that a cruise company won't use for those with mobility issues? How else is the passenger going to get off the ship in case of an emergency? At that point the cruise line should full stop deny a passenger in a wheelchair access to the cruise itself as you sometimes find with those who are blind as it means the cruise line can't ensure safety to the passenger.

On all the Seabourn ships sans the two Expedition ships that primarily use zodiacs the tenders are the lifeboats and they do carry those in wheelchairs. The inside has steps down on both sides of the opening along with several fold up benches, when there is a passenger in a wheelchair they keep them on the that level.

View attachment 847989

In an emergency, I am sure crew and/or passengers could assist someone in a wheelchair onto the lifeboat if needed, and leave the wheelchair behind. I know I would be carrying my own daughter in that situation. But that's very different than doing it for tendering purposes. I have yet to be on a cruise where they use the lifeboats to tender though. It doesn't seem common for the major lines.

The Supreme Court held that the ADA, in part, applies to cruise ships that sail in U.S. waters, even when flagged in other countries. Denying boarding for all wheelchair passengers would be illegal for ships that sail in U.S. waters.

I don't get your comment about blind people. Are the lines that really do that? Again, it wouldn't be legal in the U.S.

 

[SteveMouse]

That would seem rather counterintuitive wouldn't you think? A lifeboat that a cruise company won't use for those with mobility issues? How else is the passenger going to get off the ship in case of an emergency? At that point the cruise line should full stop deny a passenger in a wheelchair access to the cruise itself as you sometimes find with those who are blind as it means the cruise line can't ensure safety to the passenger.

On all the Seabourn ships sans the two Expedition ships that primarily use zodiacs the tenders are the lifeboats and they do carry those in wheelchairs. The inside has steps down on both sides of the opening along with several fold up benches, when there is a passenger in a wheelchair they keep them on the that level.

View attachment 847989

As I said, "don't like to." Whether the device or only the person would be accommodated in an actual evacuation emergency might vary on the nature of the emergency and the specifics of the medical equipment (my power wheelchair weighs about 350 pounds without my body in it. I weigh about 170 pounds. I cannot walk or stand unassisted and can't really sit unless I am in a reclined position.

Obviously, manual wheelchairs usually weigh less. Wheelchair users come in all shapes and sizes. Transfers between vessels can get complicated by weather and waves. The Captain is right to be cautious about what changes can occur during the day that could result in an unsafe transfer on return.

Going ashore to visit is not usually an emergency action.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In an emergency, I am sure crew and/or passengers could assist someone in a wheelchair onto the lifeboat if needed, and leave the wheelchair behind. I know I would be carrying my own daughter in that situation. But that's very different than doing it for tendering purposes. I have yet to be on a cruise where they use the lifeboats to tender though. It doesn't seem common for the major lines.

There is U.S. caselaw extending the ADA in part to cruise ships that sail in U.S. waters, even when flagged in other countries. Denying boarding for all wheelchair passengers would be illegal for ships that sail in U.S. waters.

I don't get your comment about blind people. Are the lines that really do that? Again, it wouldn't be legal in the U.S.

Yes sometimes blind passengers have been denied access to a cruise. The world of cruising extends far out from just U.S. waters. It's not particular to any one line really. P&O had a situation last year for example.

It may not be common for some cruise lines but indeed we were on the lifeboat, that is the tender for those ships yes even in U.S. waters.

In any case if you're talking about U.S. waters wouldn't denying a passenger in a wheelchair tendering be against the ADA?

 

[SteveMouse]

In an emergency, I am sure crew and/or passengers could assist someone in a wheelchair onto the lifeboat if needed, and leave the wheelchair behind. I know I would be carrying my own daughter in that situation. But that's very different than doing it for tendering purposes. I have yet to be on a cruise where they use the lifeboats to tender though. It doesn't seem common for the major lines.

The Supreme Court held that the ADA, in part, applies to cruise ships that sail in U.S. waters, even when flagged in other countries. Denying boarding for all wheelchair passengers would be illegal for ships that sail in U.S. waters.

I don't get your comment about blind people. Are the lines that really do that? Again, it wouldn't be legal in the U.S.

There are safety exceptions where there is a substantive risk to the individual or to the operational staff if they were in the process of accommodating an individual with a disability that apply in certain circumstances. These exceptions may limit what accommodations need to be provided. General denial of access fo cruise ships, however, is not permitted. An unsafe transfer situation would be an example of where an accommodation does not need to be provided.

ADA exceptions may occur in many situations, not just cruise ships.

 

[brentm77]

Yes sometimes blind passengers have been denied access to a cruise. The world of cruising extends far out from just U.S. waters. It's not particular to any one line really. P&O had a situation last year for example.

It may not be common for some cruise lines but indeed we were on the lifeboat, that is the tender for those ships yes even in U.S. waters.

In any case if you're talking about U.S. waters wouldn't denying a passenger in a wheelchair tendering be against the ADA?

Denying blind passengers access is terrible and makes me appreciate the ADA even more.

As for the tendering, I don't have enough information to answer. There are limitations under the ADA, such as not needing to make changes that aren't "readily achievable." From my layman's perspective, altering lifeboats to accommodate wheelchairs seems impractical without fundamentally changing their capacity, size, ability to store enough of them, etc. If that is the case, the ADA probably wouldn't require those changes, but I also haven't looked any any regulations in this area as they specifically apply to cruise ships. But I would guess that the regulations require a plan for evacuating those in wheelchairs in an emergency.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As I said, "don't like to." Whether the device or only the person would be accommodated in an actual evacuation emergency might vary on the nature of the emergency and the specifics of the medical equipment (my power wheelchair weighs about 350 pounds without my body in it. I weigh about 170 pounds. I cannot walk or stand unassisted and can't really sit unless I am in a reclined position.

Obviously, manual wheelchairs usually weigh less. Wheelchair users come in all shapes and sizes. Transfers between vessels can get complicated by weather and waves. The Captain is right to be cautious about what changes can occur during the day that could result in an unsafe transfer on return.

Going ashore to visit is not usually an emergency action.

To the bolded--That's a safety decision made in the moment and applies to literally every passenger. It's not based on one's condition. Just yesterday one of the Seabourn ship's had to leave passengers in Okinawa due to a tsunami warning, they left the area and returned to pick up those passengers once the tsunami warning went away. That's a decision based in the moment for everyone's safety not based on a passenger's mobility. When waters turn rough (in general) leaving is also possible, that's again applying to all passengers. Whether a passenger who has a mobility issue chooses to go ashore or even on the ship to begin with is up to them.

Your prior comment stated "Most ships don't like to or can't accommodate wheelchairs when the tenders being used are the ship's lifeboats." If a tender, regardless of it being a lifeboat or not, can't accommodate a wheelchair they should not take on a passenger for the cruise itself who has that as that's their safety device. You couldn't reasonably assume that the passenger could safely be lifted out of a wheelchair, powered or manual. My guess is cruise lines who use lifeboats as tenders are able to accommodate mobility passengers but if I was a passenger who had mobility issues I would raise heck with a cruise line who denies me access to a tendered port, in that case it's better for the cruise ship to advise the passenger they are unable to safely accommodate their condition period.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Denying blind passengers access is terrible and makes me appreciate the ADA even more.

As for the tendering, I don't have enough information to answer. There are limitations under the ADA, such as not needing to make changes that aren't "readily achievable." From my layman's perspective, altering lifeboats to accommodate wheelchairs seems impractical without fundamentally changing their capacity, size, ability to store enough of them, etc. If that is the case, the ADA probably wouldn't require those changes, but I also haven't looked any any regulations in this area as they specifically apply to cruise ships. But I would guess that the regulations require a plan for evacuating those in wheelchairs in an emergency.

I don't disagree, it's not kind to deny passengers for being blind. I can understand on one level about safety but there's a lot for individuals with blindness that can be done and often are done so I personally don't see it as really something that should be done.

 

[lanejudy]

in that case it's better for the cruise ship to advise the passenger they are unable to safely accommodate their condition period.

But that would not be true. Tenders, port excursions, certain activities (rock climbing, water slides, etc.) are not “the cruise” but rather optional parts of a cruise. The ship CAN accommodate wheelchairs with accessible staterooms, dining rooms, theaters, lounges, etc. Denying boarding the cruise due to inaccessibility of tenders or port excursions or a few activities would be discrimination. The cruise websites are fairly clear as to what is or is not accessible; the passenger can make an informed decision if they feel cruising is a vacation they wish to take. It’s crappy enough for someone to know they can’t participate in everything. I can’t believe someone thinks denying boarding to all wheelchairs would even be any level of acceptable.

At that point the cruise line should full stop deny a passenger in a wheelchair access to the cruise itself as you sometimes find with those who are blind as it means the cruise line can't ensure safety to the passenger.

I’m not sure where this happened or when or the circumstances. My guess is that there may be more to the story and blanket statements like this are in very poor taste.

 

[SteveMouse]

But that would not be true. Tenders, port excursions, certain activities (rock climbing, water slides, etc.) are not “the cruise” but rather optional parts of a cruise. The ship CAN accommodate wheelchairs with accessible staterooms, dining rooms, theaters, lounges, etc. Denying boarding the cruise due to inaccessibility of tenders or port excursions or a few activities would be discrimination. The cruise websites are fairly clear as to what is or is not accessible; the passenger can make an informed decision if they feel cruising is a vacation they wish to take. It’s crappy enough for someone to know they can’t participate in everything. I can’t believe someone thinks denying boarding to all wheelchairs would even be any level of acceptable.



I’m not sure where this happened or when or the circumstances. My guess is that there may be more to the story and blanket statements like this are in very poor taste.

On any given cruise, tender accessibility can differ between ports, depending on very local conditions. We have been on back to back cruises. On the first one, the weather was bad and the Captain made the decision's not to let wheelchairs go ashore at a particular port (it is well advertised that wheelchairs may or may not be accommodated at this port). The next week, the weather was great and there were no issues. I'd hate to be told "no soup for you" ever based on the. possibility access might not work on any given day.

 

[Cfabar1]

I remember a time when a couple almost got left behind in Puerto Rico. The worst part was they had left their kid in the club (my kids were in the club at the time too so got to see it unfold and was a stressful situation for kids and counselors alike). When they finally showed up there were some very stern words for them from the captain over the PA system. They arrived in a taxi (we watched them board) so I suspect they had tried to do some kind of adventurous activity out of town like the rainforest and didn't budget enough time to get back. What was especially bonkers was that we were docked in old town Puerto Rico so if the parents wanted to do something on their own there were so many lovely things to explore within 10 min walking distance from the port. I just don't understand people sometimes...

To be honest, this is another thing I am kind of surprised the ships even allow. We personally don't feel comfortable leaving our child on the ship while we are out not on the ship.... Maybe on a Coco Cay or a Castaway Key, but that's kind of about it to me... This type of event unfurling is one of my worst nightmares. I know it is unlikely, but imagine if you misunderstood the time, or if your boat unexpectedly needs to leave port earlier and you don't know it... just absolutely terrifying.

 

[aboveH20]

I’ve been watching “Mighty Cruise Ships” on Discovery channel. It’s given me an appreciation for how hard the crew works so we don’t know how hard they’re working! Especially interesting was logistics of getting from Port A to Port B and how important leaving Port A might be in terms of

Weather at A or B (apparently ships don’t like strong winds)
Low tides that prevent them from entering or leaving shallow channels
“Booking” the pilot to get them in and out of ports
Having port crew available to handle ropes and whatever else “ground crew” does