Negative test to be required before flying to Canada

[ilovetotravel1977]

Its one thing to cross the border to work or for truckers to bring goods across and another to go on vacation.

I think what @Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina is saying though is that not all non-essential travel is for "vacation". She clearly outlined valid reasons in her post.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

There is a difference in supply lines and those going on vacation. The Canadian site even says for people to avoid any non essential travel. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. Its one thing to cross the border to work or for truckers to bring goods across and another to go on vacation.

You didn't answer my question. What can Canada not provide during this lockdown that needs to be sourced from the USA or any other country? There is absolutely no justification for supply lines not to be halted, or at the very least greatly reduced, in most circumstances. Oreos, and MANY products that are currently being transported, are absolutely NOT "essential".

If the risk of Covid spread is the concern, cross border workers should not be permitted. Their risk of transmission is equal to, or greater, than people crossing for recreational purposes.....especially those who work in the health care field. That's the black and white you are seeking. You can't draw the line in the sand for one group and make concessions for another, and still maintain your "it's black and white" argument.

And did you read ANY other parts of my reply? You do realize many people are crossing for NON VACATION reasons?

 

[Jrb1979]

You didn't answer my question. What can Canada not provide during this lockdown that needs to be sourced from the USA or any other country? There is absolutely no need for supply lines not to be halted in most circumstances. Oreos, and MANY products that are currently being transported, are absolutely NOT "essential".

If the risk of Covid spread is the concern, cross border workers should not be permitted. Their risk of transmission is equal to, or greater, than people crossing for recreational purposes.....especially those who work in the health care field. That's the black and white you are seeking.

And did you read ANY other parts of my reply? You do realize many people are crossing for NON VACATION reasons?

If it were my way nobody would be crossing the border at all. What you have been describing I would consider essential travel. If it's to care for a loved one, a job or supplies that's fine. Where the line always has been is for those traveling to go on vacation. Personally I would love it if they implemented a case by case situation.

 

[Best_Vacation_EVER!]

I don't even know what that is but clearly you didn't read my post. I am in no way blaming the teachers union or the doctors for COVID. I am however saying that the government has let our system of health crumble and has been doing so for decades. The reason for this is because healthcare is the largest budget item but has no union for doctors and therefore it is something that can be trimmed to help provide money to other areas. The second largest budget item is very hard to trim which is education and that is due to teachers unions making it hard to decrease expenses in education. I mean we have 5 separate school boards in one province but I am not even saying that should be trimmed, I am just saying that is what has been done. It has contributed to our health system being terrible for years. I mean how many people can't get a family doctor, or have to wait months or years for procedures or tests prior to the pandemic. We are spending so much money on what is fast, which is testing, and ignoring the actual problem which is the lack of funding of our health system which has left it so vulnerable. Unfortunately this is very slow to correct as even if they throw money at it doctors won't just return, it will take a decade to get enough doctors back into the system

I did read the post --- but it was utter nonsense..... and based on the current post you clearly hate the education system/teachers (who are mostly awesome by the way in spite of the challenges of covid, funding, etc... .) French kids in the province get to have an education and Catholic education is guaranteed under the constitution ---- get that doesn't work for you but --- get over it or work to make the public board so good that it makes the others are not needed.... right now in our area the French/Catholic and English/Catholic schools quality far exceeds our regular options. Fix that then bicker about the rest.

But how's about this.... travel is completely optional. Maybe more stringent requirements should exist on travellers. Suck it up and get the test before getting on the plane.

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

If it were my way nobody would be crossing the border at all.

What you have been describing I would consider essential travel. If it's to care for a loved one, a job or supplies that's fine. Where the line always has been is for those traveling to go on vacation. Personally I would love it if they implemented a case by case situation.

So, not black and white?


Let me just say, its SO easy for people to judge others.....but things are rarely as simple as most people seem to think.

 

[quandrea]

What is essential? The Canada said doesn't define it. Right now I shouldn't be traveling, but a couple of weeks ago I could travel within Ontario and Canada without any testing/quarantining.
This is not a black and white issue, and I think a lot of people on here are making it out to be. Deciding to take a vacation does not equal downplaying Covid.

In news conferences and public health messages essential is repeatedly defined—medical appointments, pharmacy visits, groceries, home maintenance errands. Beyond that, something is not essential. Deciding to vacation will never fall under essential.

 

[Jrb1979]

So, not black and white?


Let me just say, its SO easy for people to judge others.....but things are rarely as simple as most people seem to think.

It is black and white. Non essential would traveling for a vacation. Traveling for work or medical reasons is essential.

 

[Best_Vacation_EVER!]

You didn't answer my question. What can Canada not provide during this lockdown that needs to be sourced from the USA or any other country? There is absolutely no justification for supply lines not to be halted, or at the very least greatly reduced, in most circumstances. Oreos, and MANY products that are currently being transported, are absolutely NOT "essential".

If the risk of Covid spread is the concern, cross border workers should not be permitted. Their risk of transmission is equal to, or greater, than people crossing for recreational purposes.....especially those who work in the health care field. That's the black and white you are seeking. You can't draw the line in the sand for one group and make concessions for another, and still maintain your "it's black and white" argument.

And did you read ANY other parts of my reply? You do realize many people are crossing for NON VACATION reasons?

You sort of actually can... People travelling for non-vacation reasons have different rules/requirements. To be honest truckers should still be required to provide proof they are reasonably covid free before coming across the border (they should have fast tests available at the border though.)

For travellers (outgoing or incoming) they should have to prove they have a negative test (not perfect --- but it is what it is...)

 

[Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina]

It is black and white. Non essential would traveling for a vacation. Traveling for work or medical reasons is essential.

I will disagree on the cross border workers. There are TONS of people who are jobless thanks to the pandemic. If we can close businesses and put some people out of work, the land border restrictions should also be applied uniformly to all travelers including those who work in one country and live in another......*if* your "black and white" theory is to be effectively applied. There are plenty of folks who could fill those vacancies in their own country of residence.

You have chosen to disregard my question about the movement of goods between countries. What essential goods can Canada not produce for themselves?

And no American needs to travel to Canada for medical care, if that is what you are referring to as "medical reasons". Care is much easier to source here than in Canada with far less waits and cutting edge research/technology. And I would be surprised if any Canadian would want to travel to the US for medical care, except in very dire circumstances, as it wouldn't be supplied here for "free" (or, in a more honest description, paid for by your taxes). If you have used "medical reasons" as another way of saying "humanitarian" reasons, then again......your black and white stance doesn't work.

I'll be backing out of this discussion now, as its very clear that some folks don't want to see the holes in their own logic. As someone who has a more unique perspective on this whole mess, let me leave with these parting comments: the current systems are SO flawed, and we absolutely need to do better. We need to demand more tests (and I think the newly imposed requirements are a great start). We need to apply the restrictions uniformly and fairly for them to work. We need to stop asking some people to suck it up, while letting other equally damaging situations continue on unchecked. It makes NO sense.....and the fact that Covid continues to be a national and global concern 10 months from the first outbreak is proof that what we are doing isn't working.

And all of this is true on BOTH sides of the border.

And man oh man, some compassion would be nice. What has happened to us as a nation? These kinds of discussions can be SO positive if we all just try and learn a little from each other. There are PEOPLE at the center of all of this, affected in so many painful ways. It would serve us all so much better to try and take a bigger look at everything and realize there's no easy, quick, or "black and white" answer. I want nothing more than a healthy Canada, because the people I love most are there and it is my home, first and foremost. And I can't wait to get back there as soon as I can. Not for a VACATION.....for my own sanity and mental health. Because that is just as "essential" as anything else.

 

[Best_Vacation_EVER!]

You didn't answer my question. What can Canada not provide during this lockdown that needs to be sourced from the USA or any other country? There is absolutely no justification for supply lines not to be halted, or at the very least greatly reduced, in most circumstances. Oreos, and MANY products that are currently being transported, are absolutely NOT "essential".

If the risk of Covid spread is the concern, cross border workers should not be permitted. Their risk of transmission is equal to, or greater, than people crossing for recreational purposes.....especially those who work in the health care field. That's the black and white you are seeking. You can't draw the line in the sand for one group and make concessions for another, and still maintain your "it's black and white" argument.

And did you read ANY other parts of my reply? You do realize many people are crossing for NON VACATION reasons?

Totally awesome post...

To me the trucker/import thing is a totally different beast --- but the difference should be based on what they do.... i.e. Deliver (minimize contact) and then leave. There should be rules of course .... I'm assuming there are. If someone isn't following them --- prosecute. Cross border workers have very specific requirements to ensure that they can continue to do that and are often health caree workers. Should we ask whether what we import is worth it is another question that we should have asked before the pandemic.... definitely.

Compassion is awesome... but during a pandemic I think people just want to know they're safe... They've sacrificed jobs/businesses to secure our communities. The notion that a VACATION can only be attained by leaving the country/province/city is a fallacy. I think that's what people are looking for.

 

[Donald - my hero]

@Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina I can answer the question about what essential goods that Canada can NOT provide our own citizens with why that is. Due to NAFTA we lost the ability to be competitive within the manufacturing industry, we no longer even have factories available to use. We do assemble some items here, such as vehicles, but we don't manufacture the parts that are used.

Right now though? You want a concrete item that we don't produce and is 100% essential? The vaccines! The raw products used to make most of our medications (I know I wasn't the only person who was forced to limp along waiting for meds to arrive at our drug store) the bottles, most medical items are NOT made here.

there's a lot more that we truly need beyond food products that we don't manufacture ourselves. I get what you're saying that some items might seem frivolous but that's not the majority of what's coming in.

in my mind (trust me a very mixed up place right now since COVID-19 has removed the ability to get what is essential medical treatment) the type of travel that needs to be stopped, everywhere, not just in North America, is travel for the sake of traveling. Sucks but that is the only way to contain this bugger, stop letting it hitch a ride.

 

[marchingstar]

So how do you justify the movement of goods between the two countries at the land borders? I'm not being argumentative, I'm truly trying to understand how Canadians do not view that as non-essential? As an industrialized nation, what is Canada not able to generate (save for perhaps tropical fruits) that needs to be sourced from the USA right now (and vice versa)? And for a virus this deadly, can a country not live without those few items for the short term? (eat an apple instead, they really are good for you) Surely you can see that a truck driver, who would be frequenting rest stops and fast food outlets all along his route, would be statistically putting himself in many more Covid-catching situations than many average citizens, a good deal of whom have been working from the safety of their home during the pandemic?

To say it's black and white is nonsensical. The world is connected in more ways than any of us can understand. I hope you are also advocating for every Canadian who lives in a border city (nurses and medical staff included) to cease their employment until this virus is under control, because by your logic we don't want the Canadians from Windsor bringing Covid into Michigan hospitals (the super-strain was identified in Canada before it was identified here.....and health care workers are at a far greater risk of exposure than us "regular" folks).

Not everyone who is traveling from one country to another is doing so for a "vacation". I personally know a few people who have had to travel home to prepare final arrangements for loved ones who have passed away (and none of those people died from covid, for the record). Others need to care for relatives with cancer, or who have been gravely injured in an auto accident (with young children who need care). Please try and open your mind to realize that not everyone wants to jaunt across the border to go to Disney World or host a house party with 30 friends. For someone who has lived their whole life in one country and doesn't have connections outside of those borders, its easy to wear your blinders and pretend life is that small. Let me assure you it isn't.

i think that here, though, people actually are trying to stretch the definition of “essential” travel to things like Disney trips. because this is a Disney travel website.

sure there are bigger factors to consider, and things like cross-border health care workers and long-haul truckers are both careers that represent that grey zone that exists without a clear definition.

but so far in these threads, people are talking about the impact of this decision on people currently on vacation (“how will they get home?”) or on upcoming vacation plans (“where can i get tested?” “what happens if i’m inconvenienced with a positive test?”).

i don’t think any of us believe life is small. i do think that this website, and the actions of at least a few canadian public servants over the holiday season, are signs that elective travel is still something affecting our lives. and when so many of us are doing everything we can to make our lives smaller so that we and our loved ones make it through the pandemic, i think it’s fair to see this as a black and white issue.

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

Everyone, please remember - no political talk/political opinion sharing on these forums. Some of you are standing on that line and you need to stay away from politics.

 

[marchingstar]

and i also really resent the suggestion that my buying a pineapple at the grocery store is as problematic to my community as the neighbor taking a vacation.

because again, i’ve made my world smaller. my son hasn’t visited another child in months. i haven’t hugged loved ones in months, and almost all my contact with the outside world is through the internet too. we limit the amount of driving we do, so that we are avoiding the risk of an accident and the associated strain on the medical system.

my mental health could use a break too. i don’t feel i need to explain the loss and pain i’ve experienced this year. the details are less important than the overarching truth that most of us are missing things that feel important. the problem becomes when some of us decide that our losses are most important. we’re all grieving, and i like to hope that most of us our doing our best for ourselves and our communities.

and still, if the government decides pineapples are nonessential and stops bringing them in, my world will get smaller again and i’ll eat apples. i’ve followed every other restriction, so it’ll be one more on the list of things to look forward to once my family makes it through this.

 

[Minniemoo15]

In NB we actually have a testing program for essential workers. You can test on day 5 and day 10. Upon no symptoms and receiving the negative results of day 5 you can leave quarantine as long as you agree to come back for another test on day 10.

Of note, this applies not only to international employees but also essential employees coming from other provinces in Canada. Anyone else coming into the province for non-work purposes is subjected to the full 14 day quarantine. I would be fine with them opening the testing system beyond just people traveling for work but I imagine it would quickly overwhelm the limited testing capacity we currently have.

 

[momof2gr8kids]

I'm hoping that once people have a vaccination the quarantine can be lifted with a negative test as well.

I hear everyone screaming no one should be allowed to travel anywhere, or cross the border, but there are so many situations that I personally think should warrant someone being allowed to cross as long as they're adhering to the rules in place. (Own a cottage that was broken into in Canada - too bad, you can't come. Own a cottage that had roof damage and is probably now full of mould because you couldn't access it - too bad. You're American and your best friend who who lives in Canada and has no family supports is undergoing brain surgery and chemo and needs you to come help look after her kids. Too bad. You're going to lose your life's investment because the out of country tourists can't come again in 2021...maybe? Don't know. Oh well too bad for you too.)

It's easy for many of us to say keep everything closed, but when we're working safely from home, with our family close by, getting our full paycheque, we can't see the hardship it is for some others.

(I type this as I just got off the phone with my friend who works for the government, at home, as does her partner, listening to her crab about people travelling, or shopping in stores when they can buy online, all the while they are gathering with their "safe" people throughout the holidays. Safe people that work in schools, or daycares, or grocery stores. And their kids and their gf/bf. But they're all safe cause they aren't travelling. I'm sure they'd think differently if my dh who works in a ltc home did that. Or if a continuing shut down means they won't get paid.)

 

[montrealdisneylovers]

Wonderful! Now we will ask people who more than likely don’t have Covid to go to a test Center to mingle with people who think they have Covid to get a test that is not that accurate three days before getting on a flight back to Canada.

 

[damo]

Wonderful! Now we will ask people who more than likely don’t have Covid to go to a test Center to mingle with people who think they have Covid to get a test that is not that accurate three days before getting on a flight back to Canada.

Mingle?

 

[montrealdisneylovers]

Mingle?

Mingle = be in close proximity with

 

[Jrb1979]

Wonderful! Now we will ask people who more than likely don’t have Covid to go to a test Center to mingle with people who think they have Covid to get a test that is not that accurate three days before getting on a flight back to Canada.

Not in our country so not our problem. Maybe don't leave the country unless you have to.