New CS Seating Policy & The GAC

[Stellapedia]

By sought after Dx, I mean something on the forefront of everyone's mind, something people jump to and look for. Because no one would look at him today, or his behavior then, and believe anything other than severe autism. But back then, he was just a "bad" kid and often treated as such, including by the state which warehoused him.

And by corral and control, that is what she has stated she needs to do. Connotation aside, she needs somewhere to block them in (for lack of a better term, as she has clearly stated she needs support of the wall to prevent them from running), and that she needs this to remain in control of the situation and their behavior.

It's not autism I have a "prejudice" with, or any disorder, disease, or disability, or any parent trying to do their level best for his/her child. My issue comes from someone who claims that they are being discriminated against, unwelcome, unwanted, etc. when it's not the case. From someone who doesn't request additional accomodation, but demands it and claims that an establishment owes it to them or needs to provide it.

I sincerely doubt that any CM would, after being briefly explained the situation, tell her "sorry, go elsewhere, we can't help." Chances are she would be welcomed and seated at the first available and appropriate location. But, I also think it would be valid and expected and normal for someone to wonder "if they can't handle it here, how can they handle it elsewhere in the park?" For that, it being difficult to convince someone of an actual legitimate issue (of which I personally do not in any way doubt exists or that it is very real) and not just someone wanting a break.

The attitude that I, and some others on this thread, are taking issue with is the "Disney NEEDS to do this for me and they NEED to do this and I am being discriminated against and not welcome and they owe this to me and this is a discriminatory and non-compliant practice" when none of that is actually true.

 

[Beccabunny]

The reason many families of children with autism can "handle it" elsewhere in the park is due to a GAC, which often provides for a separate waiting area, an alternate entrance, or another accomodation that prevents waiting in the regular lines. But you have already decided that not being able to wait is not a reason, AND you have stated you don't think a GAC should be available for restaurants. So you've pretty much answered your own questions.

 

[blurrycat]

I typically lurk here and let my wife do all of the posting, but I just had to speak up.

I think everyone's forgetting that what may work for one person may not work for another. This new policy may be a godsend for some, and a complete disaster for others. Why do we need to put down others for needing something different from the norm?

If anyone should understand that this world is not "one size fits all" it should be those of us with disabilities. Only we know our own limitations and situations. If this works for you, great, be happy for the policy. But when it comes to those for whom it doesn't work, don't attack them as being entitled. You haven't walked in their shoes, and no two situations are the same.

For what it's worth, I am an adult with both Asperger's and numerous physical disabilities, and there are many reasons this plan would put a hardship on me. And believe me, I am not one to play a "disability card".

 

[ireland_nicole]

1. If we were to eat at Denny's, we would be waiting together; therefore, it wouldn't be an issue (besides which, we don't eat at Denny's, but that's neither here nor there.)

2. I find it difficult to believe that anyone with or without wheels has never, ever been able to find a table in a counterservice restaurant anywhere on property.

3. If there was not a wheelchair accessible queue, those of you with wheels would rightfully speak up and advocate for access. Why is ok for y'all to speak, but families with neurological variations and developmental disabilities do not have the same right? Rather, simply for asking the question and looking for viable solutions, I have been told that I'm "playing the disability card" and that concerns re: this issue are "not legitimate" and we simply "expect special treatment" and "cannot corral our kids" and numerous other demeaning comments.

I'm sure some of y'all would probably prefer my familiy and others like us didn't come to Disney World. After all, sometimes our kids say-if they speak at all-innapropriate things, they don't act the same, they draw unwanted attention. But the last time I checked, none of us, were "perfect."

Please try to understand, expecting an autistic child to stand in a crowded noisy corridor for an unspecified amount of time while people are shuffling all around and probably bumping into them and they are seperated from a parent is about as doable as any of us fitting through a 6 inch wide doorframe. And before someone says, well just don't eat, or only go table service, or bring your own food every day(even with no way to prepare it), just try to get a mental picture of the task first. Try to see the impossibility of it, maybe try to apply it to your (collective) situation. Maybe, just maybe, if we could all do that there would be a little less name calling.

 

[Disneyadore]

@ ireland_nicole
I think your biggest problem is going when free dining is "out".

We all know its extremely busy and yes there are waiting lines.You can hardly call it slow season.
We went in May and it was amazing. The parks were empty. We could ride TOT again and again without waiting. The CM told us hurry up your next ride is waiting
Also eating was no problem at all. Empty seats in every restaurant.
The longest we had to wait to be seated was at Victoria and Albert's. ( 15 minutes)
Maybe you could change your vacation into the real slow season?

 

[Schmeck]

2. I find it difficult to believe that anyone with or without wheels has never, ever been able to find a table in a counterservice restaurant anywhere on property.

Since the whole 'CM to get you to a table' situation is based on the fact that empty tables are hard to find, I find it very highly likely that someone in a wheelchair would have a very difficult time getting to an accessible table at a CS. People have already posted here about the difficulty. Why is that so difficult to believe?

families with neurological variations

We all have neurological variations - no two people are identical in their brains, even identical twins. Realizing how to deal with the variations is what makes us work as a society.

Please try to understand, expecting an autistic child to stand in a crowded noisy corridor for an unspecified amount of time while people are shuffling all around and probably bumping into them and they are seperated from a parent is about as doable as any of us fitting through a 6 inch wide doorframe.

I could fit through a 6 inch wide doorframe. I've worked with autistic children, and they have learned how to wait in a noisy school corridor without a parent, with one assistant for one child. Perhaps you should see if you could bring another adult to assist your family? Think of it on a safety level?

I would expect that if anyone who needed assistance at one of these CS restaurants, a Cm would try to help. It might not be the accommodation you expect and demand/want, but they will try to help.

 

[Beccabunny]

Very well said, Blurrycat!

I'm very glad this policy will (hopefully) work for Bill and Kathy. There are many that will benefit from this. Allowing the GAC to be used in restaurants would help others. Yes, many CM's would be willing to accommodate, but others may not. Suppose you encounter a CM with the same attitudes as some of our posters? Do you have to stand there and try to explain exactly why some assistance is needed and hope the CM doesn't decide you're feeling "entitled" or playing the disability card? I've actually experienced this situation at an attraction, so it's not hard to imagine it would happen in a restaurant. Try getting a child with autism to stay in one place while you're arguing with an obstinate and judgemental CM and waiting around for a manager.

Disnyadore, why does she have to change her vacation plans? This may be the only time of year her family can go. I don't think it's equal access if she's expected to change her vacation plans, when her family could easily be accommodated with a GAC.

 

[Beccabunny]

Schmeck, you just illustrated my point perfectly. You may have worked with some children with autism who have learned to wait in line. Does that mean all children with autism can wait in line? This is why I now homeschool. My daughter's school thought the methods they used with other children were going to work for mine. One size fits all. It didn't work. This is why the GAC is needs-specific and not based on a diagnosis. Ireland Nicole knows her children's needs, and it's not access if she's expected to bring another adult along.

 

[Hannathy]

1. If we were to eat at Denny's, we would be waiting together; therefore, it wouldn't be an issue (besides which, we don't eat at Denny's, but that's neither here nor there.)

2. I find it difficult to believe that anyone with or without wheels has never, ever been able to find a table in a counterservice restaurant anywhere on property.

1. You all would be waiting together, just before you got your table, just like at a crowded restaurant outside of Disney. If there are no tables available I don't know of anywhere that you can go sit down.

2. It shouldn't be that difficult to believe I have experienced this several times including eating outside on the wall at the American Adv. CS most recently.

 

[Beccabunny]

This thread seems to be going in the same direction as almost every other thread involving accommodations for people with autism. I don't see anyone on these boards telling those using wheelchairs or bringing a service animal or having any other need that they should go to a different restaurant, vacation at a different time, bring an extra person. Nor should we say any such thing! Why is it so hard to understand that those with autism often have needs that are not met with the same exact accommodations used by others with disabilities. This is about needs, not wants. For some reason these accommodations are perceived as an advantage when all they do is provide access. I see a lot of resentment and judgement of those with autism, here and elsewhere.

 

[Disneyadore]

Very well said, Blurrycat!

I'm very glad this policy will (hopefully) work for Bill and Kathy. There are many that will benefit from this. Allowing the GAC to be used in restaurants would help others. Yes, many CM's would be willing to accommodate, but others may not. Suppose you encounter a CM with the same attitudes as some of our posters? Do you have to stand there and try to explain exactly why some assistance is needed and hope the CM doesn't decide you're feeling "entitled" or playing the disability card? I've actually experienced this situation at an attraction, so it's not hard to imagine it would happen in a restaurant. Try getting a child with autism to stay in one place while you're arguing with an obstinate and judgemental CM and waiting around for a manager.

Disnyadore, why does she have to change her vacation plans? This may be the only time of year her family can go. I don't think it's equal access if she's expected to change her vacation plans, when her family could easily be accommodated with a GAC.

Well as ireland_nicole stated they only staying there as its low season.
Free dining is not "low season" is high season and we all know this.

And if the GAC is good for getting seated before other guests the same access must be provided in the Disney transportation system.
This will only lead to more uproar and discrimination for the disabled.
Being disabled means the same access not preferred access.
Why should people that are equal tired ore have cranky children have to wait just because I would like to go first? It's all about planning.
Yes I'm very tired sometimes but it's MY responsibility to take a rest and it's the parents responsibility to look after there children special needs or not, not to race them through the park and than expect other to cope with there behavior.

 

[clanmcculloch]

1. If we were to eat at Denny's, we would be waiting together; therefore, it wouldn't be an issue (besides which, we don't eat at Denny's, but that's neither here nor there.)

2. I find it difficult to believe that anyone with or without wheels has never, ever been able to find a table in a counterservice restaurant anywhere on property.

3. If there was not a wheelchair accessible queue, those of you with wheels would rightfully speak up and advocate for access. Why is ok for y'all to speak, but families with neurological variations and developmental disabilities do not have the same right? Rather, simply for asking the question and looking for viable solutions, I have been told that I'm "playing the disability card" and that concerns re: this issue are "not legitimate" and we simply "expect special treatment" and "cannot corral our kids" and numerous other demeaning comments.

I'm sure some of y'all would probably prefer my familiy and others like us didn't come to Disney World. After all, sometimes our kids say-if they speak at all-innapropriate things, they don't act the same, they draw unwanted attention. But the last time I checked, none of us, were "perfect."

Please try to understand, expecting an autistic child to stand in a crowded noisy corridor for an unspecified amount of time while people are shuffling all around and probably bumping into them and they are seperated from a parent is about as doable as any of us fitting through a 6 inch wide doorframe. And before someone says, well just don't eat, or only go table service, or bring your own food every day(even with no way to prepare it), just try to get a mental picture of the task first. Try to see the impossibility of it, maybe try to apply it to your (collective) situation. Maybe, just maybe, if we could all do that there would be a little less name calling.

1. You'll still be waiting together. Currently, you don't wait together. With this change, you will be.

2. I've never had it happen at WDW that we've been unable to find a table but that's because I never eat at peak times. This is part of my strategy for smoother meals with my ASD kids. You've already stated that you do the same. I'm still not understanding why you're focussing on a scenario that DOESN'T HAPPEN TO YOU.

3. This is actually offensive of you to say. Nobody is saying that anybody will be denied access and you are playing a disability card that isn't needed. With the new policy, there will be a CM at the door directing people who can discuss your needs and help find you as quiet a place as there is in the restaurant during the busiest time of day and there will be a CM who can help you with your trays to your table and who will find you a table. You're making up a situation that doesn't exist and flaming everybody for pointing this out. What's worse is that you're doing it over a situation that doesn't affect you (you've said repeatedly you don't eat at peak times of day and you don't travel at peak times of the year and this policy will only be in place at these times). Why are you getting worked up about this? Why are you getting angry at everybody for pointing this out?

Nobody has said don't go. Why are you putting inflamatory words into everybody's mouths? We're saying to DO WHAT YOU DO TODAY. It works for you. What's the problem? Nothing is changing for you. IF (and that's a big if because I doubt you'll even try to go during these peak times because you know just how difficult it will be since it already is difficult at those time) you do decide to try to travel and eat at peak times, it will likely be easier with this new policy than it would be today since the CMs at the entrance and the CMs who seat will likely bend over backwards to help you just like all the other CMs around WDW do. Stop looking for trouble where there is none.

 

[ireland_nicole]

@ ireland_nicole
I think your biggest problem is going when free dining is "out".

We all know its extremely busy and yes there are waiting lines.You can hardly call it slow season.
We went in May and it was amazing. The parks were empty. We could ride TOT again and again without waiting. The CM told us hurry up your next ride is waiting
Also eating was no problem at all. Empty seats in every restaurant.
The longest we had to wait to be seated was at Victoria and Albert's. ( 15 minutes)
Maybe you could change your vacation into the real slow season?

Actually, up until now I haven't had a problem getting a table. We CHOOSE to eat at less busy times, usually around 10:30-11 am and dinner around 4:30-5pm I never said I had a problem, it's other people who claim that every single solitary time they eat, they can't get a table. I'm so glad you can go in may- we can't afford it. But just because our kids are able to keep that schedule, doesn't mean all kids with autism can. It happens that that is the times that we eat at home, too. My kids need their routine to cope with all the overstimulation of Disney. (Even during free dining, especially in early September, the parks actually still look like they're in low season-which they are)

Well as ireland_nicole stated they only staying there as its low season.
Free dining is not "low season" is high season and we all know this.

And if the GAC is good for getting seated before other guests the same access must be provided in the Disney transportation system.
This will only lead to more uproar and discrimination for the disabled.
Being disabled means the same access not preferred access.
Why should people that are equal tired ore have cranky children have to wait just because I would like to go first? It's all about planning.
Yes I'm very tired sometimes but it's MY responsibility to take a rest and it's the parents responsibility to look after there children special needs or not to race them through the park and than expect other to cope with there behavior.

Slow down. This is exactly what I'm trying to say. As usual, it is assumed, even by others with disabilities, that families with autism are just asking for special treatment. You can't claim that the prejudice isn't there when you write it. Why on earth would you assume that I "race my children through the park and then expect others to cope with their behavior" I have written nothing, nothing to give you that impression. Rather, I and other parents, have consistently shown that we travel with an extensive plan, carefully structure our day, allow for adequate rest, and fwiw, we don't use the busses because they are not practical for us. If a child is in a meltdown waiting an unspecified amount of time isn't viable. However, Disney does have a viable alternative- we take a car. Because of my disability we have a hang tag, so we can judge exactly how long it will take to get to the car. I always know, wherever we are, exactly how far away we are.





Schmeck, since you work with children with Autism, you know how integral to their coping routine is. In the scenario you describe, children are following their routine with a consistent caregiver. That, however, cannot possibly apply to Disney World, where the only routine is that which the parents are able to provide w/ visual schedules, sticking to regular routine in terms of waking up, resting, eating, etc. Since you work with kids with Autism, I'm sure you understand how difficult it is for them to cope with significant overstimulation in a completely new place. (and before anyone says anything about how do you manage to go, please see any of my extensive posts on the subject, or any other parent of kids with neurovariation here)


RE: bringing an extra person- um, I DO. My DH. But even just getting food can take 10-20 minutes as you all know. Leaving him with the kids means I have to order using my ECV. Yes, it's possible, but then I require the assistance of at least one additional CM. and I have to bring my ECV into a crowded restaurant instead of being able to leave it outside thereby making it easier for those around us to maneuver. We have actually been trying all along to lessen the burden on Disney by not asking for any additional accomodation except when it is absolutely necessary and there is no way around it. There is no CS restaurant I know of where you are not allowed to sit down, even with a disability, until your food is on a table. So no one here can compare this new policy with anywhere else, because it's unprecedented.

 

[Hannathy]

RE: bringing an extra person- um, I DO. My DH. But even just getting food can take 10-20 minutes as you all know. Leaving him with the kids means I have to order using my ECV. Yes, it's possible, but then I require the assistance of at least one additional CM. and I have to bring my ECV into a crowded restaurant instead of being able to leave it outside thereby making it easier for those around us to maneuver. We have actually been trying all along to lessen the burden on Disney by not asking for any additional accomodation except when it is absolutely necessary and there is no way around it. There is no CS restaurant I know of where you are not allowed to sit down, even with a disability, until your food is on a table. So no one here can compare this new policy with anywhere else, because it's unprecedented.

This is what I don't understand. How would you be leaving him with the kids and why would it change how you go into the rest.? Actually you would all be together longer you wouldn't be separated at all. If you don't take your ECV why would you now?

Actually there are places that you can't sit down until you get your food.

 

[ireland_nicole]

This is what I don't understand. How would you be leaving him with the kids and why would it change how you go into the rest.? Actually you would all be together longer you wouldn't be separated at all. If you don't take your ECV why would you now?

Actually there are places that you can't sit down until you get your food.

Because right now I sit down at a table in a quieter location against a wall and my husband goes and fetches the food. I do that because if something does startle or upset greatly intrique one of my kids, I can keep tabs on them without running after them, which I physically can not do. In the new scenario, if we're in a crowded area with all the additional stress, noise, distractions, etc. I can't manage them by myself, therefore I would have to order the food, but I can't stand that long, so would have to take my ECV in where I now don't have to because I can walk short distances.

ETA: the reason we couldn't all be together is because there really isn't room in the current queue lines for him, me on the ECV, and the kids in the double stroller (which we use as a nest/safe place and because DS has hypotonia; trust me, they can get out of the straps) plus in either scenario we now require extra help from a CM because there's now no one who can carry the food.

Oh, can you tell me what restaurants require you all purchase food before you're allowed to sit down? I'm honestly wondering, because for obvious reasons we don't eat out much, and I wouldn't go to a restaurant in my town where this was the policy because it really doesn't work for us.

 

[Beccabunny]

Well as ireland_nicole stated they only staying there as its low season.
Free dining is not "low season" is high season and we all know this.

And if the GAC is good for getting seated before other guests the same access must be provided in the Disney transportation system.
This will only lead to more uproar and discrimination for the disabled.
Being disabled means the same access not preferred access.
Why should people that are equal tired ore have cranky children have to wait just because I would like to go first? It's all about planning.
Yes I'm very tired sometimes but it's MY responsibility to take a rest and it's the parents responsibility to look after there children special needs or not, not to race them through the park and than expect other to cope with there behavior.

Again, my point is illustrated perfectly. Lots of assumptions and resentment concerning autism. I couldn't race my daughter through the park if I tried. I don't know of ANY parents of kids with autism who would. Because my daughter is high-functioning, we do well at Disney, but only with planning and lots of breaks. Still, there is no way to plan for every unexpected scenario. That's the nature of the disability.

It's not my problem is there's an "uproar" from those who resent the accommodations a child with autism needs. There are people who resent ANY accommodations for the disabled. Look at all the threads about ECV's. Should NOBODY be accommodated because rude people will be in an uproar? And by the way, this particular issue may not affect my family much. We can probably handle it. That doesn't mean others don't need an accommodation. It's not all about me and my family.

 

[Beccabunny]

Because right now I sit down at a table in a quieter location against a wall and my husband goes and fetches the food. I do that because if something does startle or upset greatly intrique one of my kids, I can keep tabs on them without running after them, which I physically can not do. In the new scenario, if we're in a crowded area with all the additional stress, noise, distractions, etc. I can't manage them by myself, therefore I would have to order the food, but I can't stand that long, so would have to take my ECV in where I now don't have to because I can walk short distances.

ETA: the reason we couldn't all be together is because there really isn't room in the current queue lines for him, me on the ECV, and the kids in the double stroller (which we use as a nest/safe place and because DS has hypotonia; trust me, they can get out of the straps) plus in either scenario we now require extra help from a CM because there's now no one who can carry the food.

Oh, can you tell me what restaurants require you all purchase food before you're allowed to sit down? I'm honestly wondering, because for obvious reasons we don't eat out much, and I wouldn't go to a restaurant in my town where this was the policy because it really doesn't work for us.

I don't understand why anyone is even questioning whether or not you take your ECV in. It's nobody's business. If you need it, that's your business. Is anyone questioning whether or not someone whould be using a wheelchair? this is just outrageous!

 

[ireland_nicole]

1. You'll still be waiting together. Currently, you don't wait together. With this change, you will be.

2. I've never had it happen at WDW that we've been unable to find a table but that's because I never eat at peak times. This is part of my strategy for smoother meals with my ASD kids. You've already stated that you do the same. I'm still not understanding why you're focussing on a scenario that DOESN'T HAPPEN TO YOU.

3. This is actually offensive of you to say. Nobody is saying that anybody will be denied access and you are playing a disability card that isn't needed. With the new policy, there will be a CM at the door directing people who can discuss your needs and help find you as quiet a place as there is in the restaurant during the busiest time of day and there will be a CM who can help you with your trays to your table and who will find you a table. You're making up a situation that doesn't exist and flaming everybody for pointing this out. What's worse is that you're doing it over a situation that doesn't affect you (you've said repeatedly you don't eat at peak times of day and you don't travel at peak times of the year and this policy will only be in place at these times). Why are you getting worked up about this? Why are you getting angry at everybody for pointing this out?

Nobody has said don't go. Why are you putting inflamatory words into everybody's mouths? We're saying to DO WHAT YOU DO TODAY. It works for you. What's the problem? Nothing is changing for you. IF (and that's a big if because I doubt you'll even try to go during these peak times because you know just how difficult it will be since it already is difficult at those time) you do decide to try to travel and eat at peak times, it will likely be easier with this new policy than it would be today since the CMs at the entrance and the CMs who seat will likely bend over backwards to help you just like all the other CMs around WDW do. Stop looking for trouble where there is none.

Please, read the posts again, there are many inaccuracies in this post. And I posted to provide clarification and support for someone who brought up a legitimate concern about access with the new policy. Disney historically pilots programs and then if they consider them to have worked expand them. I feel a responsibility to represent and advocate for those with disabilities even when something does not directly affect me today, it does affect someone like me today, and will affect me in the future. If you don't feel that responsibility, that's fine. I won't judge you for that. I would ask, no expect that the same courtesy be extended to me.

 

[Disneyadore]

It's not my problem is there's an "uproar" from those who resent the accommodations a child with autism needs. There are people who resent ANY accommodations for the disabled. Look at all the threads about ECV's. Should NOBODY be accommodated because rude people will be in an uproar? And by the way, this particular issue may not affect my family much. We can probably handle it. That doesn't mean others don't need an accommodation. It's not all about me and my family.

Well I'm sorry but in my limited world disabled persons would like to be treated like every one else and not get first access because of there limitation.

 

[kaytieeldr]

She needs to know she can sit down and eat before she buys food to eat.

If you read the article, about 1/3 of the tables are available at any given time that this procedure is in operation. Therefore, any Guest can reasonably be expected to know that a table will be available when the Guest is prepared to eat - not necessarily get in line, not order the food, but when they have the food and are about to eat, yes, there will be seating available.
I'm aware ireland_nicole's situation requires specific location/arrangement - but that set-up is not guaranteed no matter what Disney's seating practice is.