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[qwerty2k]

This was a post I copied from another poster on a different board but it gives a good perspective on the issues with G+ and FP+

I just don't see how pushing this to advanced reservations is going to solve the true problems with Genie+. Take out the price point from the discussion and the primary issues are a level playing field and the unnecessary complexity for the guest.

Fastpass+ was not a level playing field. Resort guests had a distinct advantage and that didn't have a price point attached it. It also had a layer of complexity with the different tier groups that further benefited guests that knew the complex system. On many occasions we would book FP+ reservations for attractions like Muppets and Voyage of the Little Mermaid to clear through the 3 FP+ advanced reservations and free up our pass for everything else. That's a very flawed system. The switch to Genie+ eliminated a lot of that BS, but also kept FP+ in many places where it wasn't needed to enhance the "value".

If Genie+ introduces some sort of advanced booking option, that advanced booking will have to have a window of time where guests can make their Genie+ selections. Is it midnight the night before? Is it 30 days before? Is it 30 days+ the length of the trip if you're staying on property or 30 day + the length of date based ticket? All of those will result in the exact same problem they currently face during the 7 AM rush.

Paper Fastpass did not have this problem in anything remotely close to the same way. You absolutely had lines for the Fastpass kiosks at park opening at Toy Story Mania (DHS) and Radiator Springs Racers but those lines and your placement in those lines were predicated on you being in the park early. It was no different than someone rope dropping their favorite attraction. This was just future planning the day.

If Disney is insistent on using an alternate queue, be it Lightning Lane or Fastpass, the best approach has been proven to be that the alternate queue should only be available for reservation day of, when you're in the park.

If Disney is insistent on using advanced bookings it absolutely has to be limited to one per day and however far in advance you can make that advanced booking has to be the same for resort guests, non-resort guests and AP holders OR they have to remove the price point on Genie+.

My assumption is that they haven't figured this out yet. I have yet to see a level of competence amongst the park operations decision makers in quite some time. We have had over a decade of decisions that are anti-guest.

I agree with most of that, however i disagree on the bit i bolded. Isn't the point of staying on site that you get extra perks?

 

[jerry557]

Yeah I don’t see any of this as beneficial to anyone other than those who want to pay a boatload more money, mainly for things that were free pre-COVID.

This is just a way to get more people to buy LL and Genie+, and punish AP holders.

Disney claims they are listening to guest feedback. No they aren’t. Actual guest feedback is to get rid of the park reservations entirely, just like every other theme park has done. And if you want a paid express lane, do it simple like Universal does. Not this convoluted system of tiers, virtual queues, LLs, and advanced booking windows that a rocket scientist wouldn’t be able to keep straight. I feel sorry for first time visitors that need to take a class to figure this stuff out without having to spend a fortune.
None of this is being down for guest benefit. It’s more nickel and diming wrapped up to make it look like they are giving you what you want.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yeah I don’t see any of this as beneficial to anyone other than those who want to pay a boatload more money, mainly for things that were free pre-COVID.

This is just a way to get more people to buy LL and Genie+, and punish AP holders.

Disney claims they are listening to guest feedback. No they aren’t. Actual guest feedback is to get rid of the park reservations entirely, just like every other theme park has done. And if you want a paid express lane, do it simple like Universal does. Not this convoluted system of tiers, virtual queues, LLs, and advanced booking windows that a rocket scientist wouldn’t be able to keep straight. I feel sorry for first time visitors that need to take a class to figure this stuff out without having to spend a fortune.
None of this is being down for guest benefit. It’s more nickel and diming wrapped up to make it look like they are giving you what you want.

Agreed. It's mainly PR to get people back to Disney. The outlook for bookings is very soft. Outside of here demand is not high at all. It's not just Disney, it's travel in general. Many can't afford these type of vacations right now.

 

[Dulcee]

I agree with most of that, however i disagree on the bit i bolded. Isn't the point of staying on site that you get extra perks?

Historically that's always how it was.

Honestly, the leveling of the playing field, removing the perks that came with being on property, is what drove us OFF property the past two years. That was something we hadn't done in over 15 years of trips. There wasn't any point to pay the resort prices....and with the number of hotels WDW has they need to keep people on property.

I would guess that any "advance" system for genie + will include some form of perk/advantage to try to draw guests back to their hotels.

 

[Mermaidtails1323]

Yeah I don’t see any of this as beneficial to anyone other than those who want to pay a boatload more money, mainly for things that were free pre-COVID.

This is just a way to get more people to buy LL and Genie+, and punish AP holders.

Disney claims they are listening to guest feedback. No they aren’t. Actual guest feedback is to get rid of the park reservations entirely, just like every other theme park has done. And if you want a paid express lane, do it simple like Universal does. Not this convoluted system of tiers, virtual queues, LLs, and advanced booking windows that a rocket scientist wouldn’t be able to keep straight. I feel sorry for first time visitors that need to take a class to figure this stuff out without having to spend a fortune.
None of this is being down for guest benefit. It’s more nickel and diming wrapped up to make it look like they are giving you what you want.

I will agree that their skip the line options are horrible. We have an annual skip the line at Six Flags and just recently went to Universal and used their unlimited skip the line, and it was AWESOME! Being able to go to rides pretty much whenever we want made it seem so much more worth it and less stressful. I wish Disney had something similar.

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

If resort bookings are soft, giving onsite guests a Genie+ booking advantage might help. The combo of Magical Express, onsite FP+ advantage and Free Dining kept us onsite for many years, and now all of those things are gone. Genie+ offering 3 advance bookings to resort guests would be a return of at least one onsite perk, although it would still be at extra cost and not free like FP+ was.

 

[DisneyFive]

I don't even have a WDW vacation booked, so I'm on the sidelines watching what happens. I just know how much FP+, and now G+, positively impacts our stay versus not having it at all. Being able to prebook is even better (for how we plan)

I did however, LOATHE getting up at 7am to book your first G+ selection, every freaking day while supposedly on vacation. Don't forget about that. I did it because it was still better than not having G+ at all.

For us, all-in-all, G+ is a step down from FP+, but we also knew how to use FP+ very well and stayed onsite so got earlier selection times.

It's not all rosy trying to make everything an even playing field. Someone is always going to feel slighted. I never did understand why they allowed us to book so far out in advance. I would be fine with ALL guests being able prebook 2 weeks out.

We can go on and on about how many to prebook, the cost of G+, Universal vs. Disney options, onsite vs. offsite, but in the end it doesn't matter at all other than taking up our day to discuss it.

Disney is going to to what they choose and we'll just to wait and see what that is.

 

[DisneyFive]

Yeah I don’t see any of this as beneficial to anyone other than those who want to pay a boatload more money, mainly for things that were free pre-COVID.

This is just a way to get more people to buy LL and Genie+, and punish AP holders.

Disney claims they are listening to guest feedback. No they aren’t. Actual guest feedback is to get rid of the park reservations entirely, just like every other theme park has done. And if you want a paid express lane, do it simple like Universal does. Not this convoluted system of tiers, virtual queues, LLs, and advanced booking windows that a rocket scientist wouldn’t be able to keep straight. I feel sorry for first time visitors that need to take a class to figure this stuff out without having to spend a fortune.
None of this is being down for guest benefit. It’s more nickel and diming wrapped up to make it look like they are giving you what you want.

I don't think anyone wants to pay a boatload more money. I can't stand the fact that I now have to pay for an inferior system to FP+. However the alternative, not having any form of skip-the-line service, is even worse.

I do agree completely that Disney has really screwed with AP holders (or potential AP holders) lately. Can't tell you how many times I've thought about those who were used to purchasing them and then got shut out if they didn't renew. Or those that wanted to move close to the parks and get AP's. Then there is the whole reservation part of it. That's really damaging the value of AP's.

I do think however that Disney IS very much listening to guest feedback and that's why we're seeing these changes.

1. Before this, it was the ability to modify G+ selections without having to cancel the selection first.
2. Now reservations are gone for date ticketed guests.
3. Guests wanted the Dining Plan back, so DP is back.
4. AP's are back (albeit still not at the good 'ol days value of AP's) and more and more restrictions removed
5. ...

 

[easyas123]

Disney is going to to what they choose and we'll just to wait and see what that is.

Exactly.

 

[rmclain73]

How about a hybrid FP+ and Genie+ At 7:00am (prior to going into the parks) guests can be allowed to book 3LL's for that day. Once the guest has used their 3 LL's they will then be able to continue booking 1 at a time. Once you have gone through your first 3 LL's, you can also book another LL for an attraction you have already ridden if its available. ILL will still have he same once per day restriction.

 

[MadderAdder]

How about a hybrid FP+ and Genie+ At 7:00am (prior to going into the parks) guests can be allowed to book 3LL's for that day. Once the guest has used their 3 LL's they will then be able to continue booking 1 at a time. Once you have gone through your first 3 LL's, you can also book another LL for an attraction you have already ridden if its available. ILL will still have he same once per day restriction.

I think it’s the 7 am time that bothers a lot of guests though.

 

[bellevueloungers]

IMO I'm not really sure how G+ makes it a level playing field, when they are adding a minimum of $60/day for your average family of four. Many people can't afford that. To me, that is not much different than resort guests accessing FP+ earlier than those who stayed off-site, many because they could not afford resort prices. Unless the system was free and everyone got access at the same time, you never have equality. That being said, I am a planner and detest getting up at 7:00am, so I am looking forward to what they come up with.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don't think anyone wants to pay a boatload more money. I can't stand the fact that I now have to pay for an inferior system to FP+. However the alternative, not having any form of skip-the-line service, is even worse.

I do agree completely that Disney has really screwed with AP holders (or potential AP holders) lately. Can't tell you how many times I've thought about those who were used to purchasing them and then got shut out if they didn't renew. Or those that wanted to move close to the parks and get AP's. Then there is the whole reservation part of it. That's really damaging the value of AP's.

I do think however that Disney IS very much listening to guest feedback and that's why we're seeing these changes.

1. Before this, it was the ability to modify G+ selections without having to cancel the selection first.
2. Now reservations are gone for date ticketed guests.
3. Guests wanted the Dining Plan back, so DP is back.
4. AP's are back (albeit still not at the good 'ol days value of AP's) and more and more restrictions removed
5. ...

I disagree that they are listening. They didn't make these changes cause of guest feedback. They made these changes cause demand is soft right and forecasted to be that into next year.

I guarantee that if they had the same demand as last summer none of these things would have come back including APs.

 

[HopperFan]

I agree with most of that, however i disagree on the bit i bolded. Isn't the point of staying on site that you get extra perks?

I agree that staying at Disney Resorts should come with perks BUT I have always argued that doesn't apply to the Parks where everyone has traditionally been treated fairly equal. Hotels and Parks are two completely different profit centers, and what you pay to do one should have nothing to do with the other. On top of that 2/3 of the Park guests are NOT staying on property and Disney can't afford to alienate them by making them second class guests.

Hotel Perks would include ~
- Free Parking at the hotels
- Free Transportation throughout property
- Free Parking at the theme parks
- Disney Dining Plan option
- Booking ADR earlier
- Package Delivery to Hotel (needs to return, guarantee merchandise sales go up) OR at least expand the operation to pick up as you are leaving the park on way out.
- Transferring luggage for split stays
- Magical Express ... don't see this returning
- Highly themed hotels
- THE BUBBLE
- Extra Early Hours (does not impact off site guests)
- Extra Magic Hours, currently for deluxe (does not impact off site guests)
- Things you don't find at most hotels: Quiet Pools, Food Courts, Playgrounds, Nice Pools ...

Maybe add more ~
- Hold back ADRs for hotel guests up to say 48 hours at their hotel (not sure this option ever happened)
- Maybe make hotel activities that are not in open & character meets just for that's hotel guests
- Go back to full housekeeping for all, towel animals, decent toiletries or other true deluxe amenities since Disney charges luxury prices.
- Maybe more obscure things like Disney Hotel Guests get HDDR for 5% off. Not unreasonable considering how hard to get there.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I know everyone hates paying for G+. I hate paying for G+. But if everyone got a free LL we are right back to the issues we had with FP+ with lack of availability. The system needs limitations for it to work.

I really, really feel like people who haven't seen Kevin Perjurer's excellent doc on FP need to see it to get why a lot of the things they want for G+ were the very things that made FP+ so flawed. And I say that as someone who generally loved FP+ and was a hardcore power user who knew how to work it to my advantage.

This video needs to be pinned to the top of every discussion related to a skip the line service at Disney IMO. It shows how fundamentally flawed every system Disney tried was, especially Fastpass+.

As for the answer to the Genie+ problem, I'm not sure. If Disney had Express pass too many people would buy it. It would need to be a price so crazy that I wouldn’t even consider going to the parks anymore. I would just go to Tahiti for that money.

 

[Davey Jones II]

Any chance the G+ changes will be implemented this year? Why would Disney wait, when people are complaining about the existing mess right NOW?

I'm planning an October trip for seven people and have been begging for a paid version of FP+. I wore out all my knee pads...

 

[Pyxie]

Any chance the G+ changes will be implemented this year? Why would Disney wait, when people are complaining about the existing mess right NOW?

I'm planning an October trip for seven people and have been begging for a paid version of FP+. I wore out all my knee pads...

Likely not since this was specifically announced for next year. But if it's any consolation, I wouldn't call the change a "paid version of FP+."

 

[Jrb1979]

Any chance the G+ changes will be implemented this year? Why would Disney wait, when people are complaining about the existing mess right NOW?

I'm planning an October trip for seven people and have been begging for a paid version of FP+. I wore out all my knee pads...

Not likely. They are waiting as it's a perk to get guests to come next year.

Likely not since this was specifically announced for next year. But if it's any consolation, I wouldn't call the change a "paid version of FP+."

Agreed. I can't see them completely revamping the system. My guess is you will be able to book your first LL ahead time for each day. I don't see it going back to the 3 again

 

[rmclain73]

Any chance the G+ changes will be implemented this year? Why would Disney wait, when people are complaining about the existing mess right NOW?

I'm planning an October trip for seven people and have been begging for a paid version of FP+. I wore out all my knee pads...

Disney also said that they "are working' on making changes to Genie. That pretty loaded to me.

 

[Davey Jones II]

That's lousy news, since I hate the system as it is now. We plan to stay until closing every night, to take advantage of shorter wait times late in the evening. So the "7 a.m. rush" is out. How long do G+ selections and ILL stay available every day? As mentioned, we will be there in mid to late October, ten park days.